High School Coach never punts, wins state title

[AgustusM]

Rivals High - Arkansas coach punts traditional game plan

As a high school O coordinator, I loved this story.

Don't think I would ever be able to convince my head coach to do this, or expect the D coordinator to talk to me ever again if we did.

[molson]

I read some kind of scholarly study a while ago that argued that teams go for it on 4th down WAY too infrequently. It was a statistical analysis. Having 25% more downs than your opponent is a huge advantage,

[Karlifornia]

I wonder what football would be like if they just completely did away with punts and field goals. More boring, or more exciting?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by molson

I read some kind of scholarly study a while ago that argued that teams go for it on 4th down WAY too infrequently. It was a statistical analysis. Having 25% more downs than your opponent is a huge advantage,

Here ya go:

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/%7Edromer/p..._CORRECTED.pdf

[cartman]

Dola,

QuikSand will spontaneously orgasm during the reading of the article.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here ya go:

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/%7Edromer/p..._CORRECTED.pdf

thank you this is awesome, going to send to my kindle and read all 43 pages - I love this kind of stuff.

[Senator]

I read it, it seems like a long time ago. I always go for it, but most 11-12 year old teams do.

[cuervo72]

TMQ has been advocating this for a couple years.

[rowech]

I'm waiting for the first coach to figure out that they should go for two points every time.

[sterlingice]

Fun read- skimmed/read through most of it. The third down/fourth down thing could be a problem with the logic but it makes sense.

Originally Posted by rowech

I'm waiting for the first coach to figure out that they should go for two points every time.

I'm of that belief, but I thought someone statistically proved that in the NFL, there's something like a 46% return rate on 2pts vs 99% on 1pt so the expected rate of return was actually higher on extra points (.46*2 = .92 vs .99*1 = .99) versus 2 point coversions. In college where the spread offense is prevalent due to speed not being universally fast and short yards being easier to gain, this may not be the case. Anyone have the link to that study?

SI

[Axxon]

High School Coach never punts

That seems odd to you? Where I'm from they always had a student punt, never the coach. SHURG.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by molson

I read some kind of scholarly study a while ago that argued that teams go for it on 4th down WAY too infrequently. It was a statistical analysis. Having 25% more downs than your opponent is a huge advantage,

What about Mike Leach and Texas Tech?

hxxp://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/10/15/1015tech.html

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I wonder what football would be like if they just completely did away with punts and field goals. More boring, or more exciting?

Can't you do that with maximum football?

[DanGarion]

When my friend and I played Madden we would always go for it on 4th down.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

When my friend and I played Madden we would always go for it on 4th down.

Cheeser.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by cartman

Dola,

QuikSand will spontaneously orgasm during the reading of the article.

Wow, and here I am with insomnia... HOW FUCKING LUCKY CAN ONE GUY BE?!?!?!?!?!!!??!?!?!?

[cartman]

I'm there for you.

Not literally there, that would be awkward, but, well, you know what I mean.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by rowech

I'm waiting for the first coach to figure out that they should go for two points every time.

Umm, no. Mike Price has shown me several times over the past couple of years that going for unnecessary two point conversions can lose games for you...

[larrymcg421]

I don't think you should always go for two, but I've been harping for a while that the current theory on conversions is assinine, and numbskull announcers don't help matters. Apparently the only time you're allowed to go for two now is if you're down by two and you just scored with no time left on the clock.

I've always felt that if you're down by 15, you should go for 2 right away. That way, you'll either be down by 7 or 9 and will know that you have to speed up or slow down for your next drive.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I wonder what football would be like if they just completely did away with punts and field goals. More boring, or more exciting?

more exciting. going for it on 4th down in your own territory and not converting basically hands the other team a free td.

i've said for the longest time i hate field goals - i wish they'd change the rule that field goals can only be used to tie a game, but not win it. it's such a cheap way to win a game.

look at this hypothetical game scenario that plays out all too often:

the score is 14-9, Giants are down 5 pts to the Eagles and march down the field for a 80 yard td, and go up by 2 pts. score is 16-14, Giants lead. Eagles return the kickoff and only have to get to the 30, 25 yard line to kick the FG and win the game 17-16.

so cheesy. i hate it.


but to respond to the title of the thread, its the DC's responsibility to stop the other team. when i play Madden i pray for the kids i'm competing against to be stupid enough to go for it on 4th down, if they don't make it then i get great positioning on the field. call the right defensive play, make the stop and get the ball back. it's beneficial for both teams if the offense goes for it on 4th down. its the only down where execution is the only thing that matters.

[larrymcg421]

In HA's scenario, I would personally put out a death warrant on Tom Coughlin for not going for a two point conversion there.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Anthony

more exciting. going for it on 4th down in your own territory and not converting basically hands the other team a free td.

i've said for the longest time i hate field goals - i wish they'd change the rule that field goals can only be used to tie a game, but not win it. it's such a cheap way to win a game.

look at this hypothetical game scenario that plays out all too often:

the score is 14-9, Giants are down 5 pts to the Eagles and march down the field for a 80 yard td, and go up by 2 pts. score is 16-14, Giants lead. Eagles return the kickoff and only have to get to the 30, 25 yard line to kick the FG and win the game 17-16.

so cheesy. i hate it.


but to respond to the title of the thread, its the DC's responsibility to stop the other team. when i play Madden i pray for the kids i'm competing against to be stupid enough to go for it on 4th down, if they don't make it then i get great positioning on the field. call the right defensive play, make the stop and get the ball back. it's beneficial for both teams if the offense goes for it on 4th down. its the only down where execution is the only thing that matters.

Don't allow the Eagles to return it back to the 30 yard line.

[Anthony]

that's easy to say. so in one scenario the Eagles defense has to stop the Giants from going 80 yards, and the Giants defense has to stop the Eagles from only going the 50, 55 yards to kick a simple 3 point FG. one isn't as challenging as the other and the team that doesn't have the bigger challenge shouldn't get to escape a loss by opting for the less challenging FG. that's just my opinion.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Anthony

that's easy to say. so in one scenario the Eagles defense has to stop the Giants from going 80 yards, and the Giants defense has to stop the Eagles from only going the 50, 55 yards to kick a simple 3 point FG. one isn't as challenging as the other and the team that doesn't have the bigger challenge shouldn't get to escape a loss by opting for the less challenging FG. that's just my opinion.

This is stupid. The situation is like this because the Eagles had the lead earlier in the game. The Giants opted for the less challenging FG's earlier, while the Eagles went the length of the field and scored two TD's.

And again, the Giants deserve to lose in this scenario because they didn't go for two.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I don't think you should always go for two, but I've been harping for a while that the current theory on conversions is assinine, and numbskull announcers don't help matters. Apparently the only time you're allowed to go for two now is if you're down by two and you just scored with no time left on the clock.

I've always felt that if you're down by 15, you should go for 2 right away. That way, you'll either be down by 7 or 9 and will know that you have to speed up or slow down for your next drive.

Amen. But, as someone said in a thread about this a while ago, coaches who do this are treated by announcers and fans like child molesters. In a situation where information is at a premium, paying .05 points (.99 to .94) to determine how you should much more wisely proceed with the rest of the game seems like a really good idea.

SI

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Amen. But, as someone said in a thread about this a while ago, coaches who do this are treated by announcers and fans like child molesters. In a situation where information is at a premium, paying .05 points (.99 to .94) to determine how you should much more wisely proceed with the rest of the game seems like a really good idea.

SI

Announcers and fans care much more about excitement and hope. In a situation down 15 with the ball, you can realistically hope for 2 scores but not 3. If you score the 7 first, there is still hope of tying with the second score. If you miss the 2-point conversion, hope is pretty much gone. Much more exciting if the 2-point happens on the last play.

[BYU 14]

I have a new Idol!!!

I went and looked at my game breakdowns this season. We punted 7 times in 9 games and I went for it on 4th down 19 times and the kids converted on 12 of them. On 7 of those attempts we ended up scoring. 3 of the failures were inside our 40, but we gave up no points.

We allowed 2 TD's after being stopped on 4th down, one of which was a 99 yard drive by the other team (See ugly Deer Valley game in my diary of this season) The other one was a 52 yard drive.

The Head varsity coach did comment that I went for it on 4 and 6 inside our 30 once that I had balls..........or was out of my F****** mind!

an easy reply for me.....I trust our defense more than our long snapper