Raiders to release multiple players this week?

[SirFozzie]

Well, I shudder to think of what this is going to do to their cap room for the next couple years, but hopefully THIS is rockbottom.. they can't delve any further deeper, can they?

ESPN - Oakland Raiders expected to release Pro Bowl CB DeAngelo Hall on Wednesday

Hall ($8 million bonus, 2nd round pick) Gone.
Walker ($11 million bonus) Gone

Apparently there's a DOZEN names on Davis's list.

[JPhillips]

What's the point of getting rid of Hall?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What's the point of getting rid of Hall?

Is there a point to anything Al Davis does?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What's the point of getting rid of Hall?

"NFL.com reported that the move to waive him now will help the Raiders avoid paying Hall $16 million worth of injury-guaranteed bonuses in his contract."

[Mustang]

Didn't Walker want to retire yet Davis talked him out of it?

Davis just has to be demented or something. There is just nothing rational about his dealing with the Raiders.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Subby

"NFL.com reported that the move to waive him now will help the Raiders avoid paying Hall $16 million worth of injury-guaranteed bonuses in his contract."

Plus he completely sucks. The most overrated corner in the league by far.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

In related news, the Raiders' fans have released Al Davis.

[Galaxy]

Can the NFL do anything? I mean, Al Davis is just nuts.

[Lathum]

I would imagine the players association can file some sore of grievence.

[Maple Leafs]

So has Hall scheduled his press conference to annouce signing with the Cowboys, or will he just send out a press release?

[JediKooter]

The new way for how Al Davis makes his decisions:

[bhlloy]

This is completely hilarious/sad considering the shitty offseason free agent signings were pretty high on the list of reasons that Al Davis fired Lane Kiffin in the first place (Kiffin was vocal about not wanting Walker and I can't believe he was in favour of MeAngelo either).

Can Raiders fans get him declared mentally incompetent or something? That being said, I still have multiple Raider fan buddies who think Davis is a football genius and the only problem has been with the coaching. I guess they deserve each other.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, I shudder to think of what this is going to do to their cap room for the next couple years, but hopefully THIS is rockbottom.. they can't delve any further deeper, can they?

If I understand the NFL cap correctly, all of the guaranteed money from the players they released will hit their cap next year. So next year they will be in a bit of cap trouble, but it should open things up for them in 2010.

[Raiders Army]

Al Davis, his cronies, the coaching staff, and most of the players need to be jettisoned.

If anyone were to be cut, I wish Nmandi Asomugha would get cut. He about the only player outside of Shane Lechler (the punter) that is worth a damn. He's only been targeted once a game (on average) by opposing quarterbacks. That's insane.

I listened to Raider Greg's podcast today and am completely disheartened by this season, the ownership, and the absolute debacle this franchise has turned into. The Raiders will not get one single penny from me in terms of merchandise until they get their shit together.

It's hard being a fan.

[Raiders Army]

Oh, and Hall is cut.

[Cringer]

Al is looking to start over empty cupboard style. Word is he will waste next year by signing nothing but players who all went to Tennessee to play college ball.

[DeToxRox]

JIM HARBAUGH TO THE RAIDERS?
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 5, 2008, 9:10 p.m.

Could we have two Harbaugh brothers as NFL head coaches?

Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Mercury News reports that it’s generally assumed that Stanford coach Jim Harbaugh, brother of Ravens coach John Harbaugh, is likely to get an offer to become the next head coach of the Oakland Raiders after the season is over.

Kawakami quotes an unnamed source as saying, “Everybody knows Al loves Harbaugh, but why would Harbaugh want that job? He could wait at Stanford a little longer and get a real job.”

But, according to Kawakami, Harbaugh loves Davis, too, and is one of the few coaches in football who might see working for Al Davis as desirable.

Kawakami, the reporter who had the infamous dust-up with a Raiders official earlier this season, also writes that interim head coach Tom Cable has no chance of being offered the job on a permanent basis after the season. Writes Kawakami, “Cable is so long gone that Al’s lieutenants don’t even have to bother to back-stab him.”

[ColtCrazy]

Please no, Jim don't go. I have great memories of Jim playing in Indy. I'd hate to see him fall into the black hole.

However, what's the chances one of us here could splice together a highlight video of us playing catch in the backyard and getting Al Davis to give us $8 mil in guaranteed money? 2:1? even?

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In related news, the Raiders' fans have released Al Davis.

I've done this long ago. I was a die hard raider fan. Then Al Davis decided he had to punish Marcus Allen, by letting him rot on the bench. I won't be a fan again until Davis is dead and buried....OKAY maybe if he retires...Maybe

[Raiders Army]

Every season I think it couldn't get worse and it does. It's simply embarrassing. I don't even think Bengals fans had to endure this.

[flere-imsaho]

I've supported some pretty crappy teams in my time, but none of those experiences, I think, come close to what Raiders fans have been going through the past few years. My sympathies go out to you guys.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Every season I think it couldn't get worse and it does. It's simply embarrassing. I don't even think Bengals fans had to endure this.

I'd actually trade places with you. The Bengals suck and are absolutely boring. At least you have an entertaining, shitty franchise.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

If I understand the NFL cap correctly, all of the guaranteed money from the players they released will hit their cap next year. So next year they will be in a bit of cap trouble, but it should open things up for them in 2010.

This is a post June 1 cut, so the application of accelerated bonuses to the cap are spread over this year and next. If you're determined to get rid of someone and have cap room left for this year, it makes sense to do it now.

I get Walker (who actually sucks) but not Hall. You're paying Walker a ton and he makes no impact on the team whatsoever. Hall may not completely shut down one side of the field, but he has amazing recovery speed, and very good ball skills. He comes back and makes a lot of plays.

So, he's not the best CB in the league, maybe not top 10. A good player instead of great. But, he's top 96, which would make him one of the top 3 on most teams in the league, and worth having on your team. Cutting him makes your team worse, unquestionably.

Plus, they gave up a second round pick to get him. Early 2nd. That pick ended up being Devin Thomas of the Redskins. The very next pick was Brandon Flowers of KC. Either player would have been great for the Raiders, especially Flowers, who would presumably still be with the team.

Al Davis has completely lost his faculties.

[flere-imsaho]

Amazing that if you said, say 3 years ago, that the Raiders would have Ashley Lelie and Javon Walker on the team along with a #1 draft pick, big-armed QB, one would expect them to actually be very good.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I get Walker (who actually sucks) but not Hall. You're paying Walker a ton and he makes no impact on the team whatsoever. Hall may not completely shut down one side of the field, but he has amazing recovery speed, and very good ball skills. He comes back and makes a lot of plays.

So, he's not the best CB in the league, maybe not top 10. A good player instead of great. But, he's top 96, which would make him one of the top 3 on most teams in the league, and worth having on your team. Cutting him makes your team worse, unquestionably.

All season he's used his amazing recovery speed to play 10-12 yards off the line, leave a huge cushion, and promptly attempt to tackle whoever he was covering after repeated 8 yard gains.

It would seem to make less sense because Asomugha always covers his guy 1v1, so Hall should have safety help, but Oakland plays a lot of cover-1 and 8 man fronts because their run defense sucks. So Hall is afraid of getting beat deep and as a result he's not doing anything particularly effective.

So Oakland's recognizing they have a sunk cost and are cutting their losses. And really, why are you paying any cb that much money if they can't cover 1v1?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Amazing that if you said, say 3 years ago, that the Raiders would have Ashley Lelie and Javon Walker on the team along with a #1 draft pick, big-armed QB, one would expect them to actually be very good.

Ashley Lelie has never amounted to anything in the NFL. I am not sure why him being on a team would ever cause one to think they'd be successful.

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

It would seem to make less sense because Asomugha always covers his guy 1v1, so Hall should have safety help, but Oakland plays a lot of cover-1 and 8 man fronts because their run defense sucks. So Hall is afraid of getting beat deep and as a result he's not doing anything particularly effective.

So Oakland's recognizing they have a sunk cost and are cutting their losses. And really, why are you paying any cb that much money if they can't cover 1v1?.

As for Hall recovering and making plays, he is second in the league in passes defensed, near the top in interceptions and tops for CBs in tackles. That is what I am talking about, making plays.

Why would you pay a CB who cannot cover 1v1? Because there are roughly 160 NFL CB jobs and somewhere between 2 and 10 guys who can cover 1v1 effectively. Those guys are few and far between. The number of guys who can cover 1v1 for as long as it takes the Raiders pass rush to get to the QB? 2. Pass offenses are too refined and effective these days to expect guys to cover like that, you need to make your defense a bit more refined as well.

Cutting a guy with that much ability because you cannot play football like you did in 1979 is insane. Even if you accept the premise that its a sunk cost, doing it this early proves the insanity thing. You scouted him, you wanted him, you invested a lot to go out and get him. You also fired the guy who you considered insubordinate because he disagreed with the moves you are now undoing. The layers of insanity here are mind boggling.

And if you think he was bad, wait till you see how bad their defense will be without him.

And besides, he was the #1 scoring CB in EFS, and him being teamless severely weakens my contending team. I hate when teams make moves without considering the fantasy implications.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'd actually trade places with you. The Bengals suck and are absolutely boring. At least you have an entertaining, shitty franchise.

I dunno. The Bengals are entertaining as well.

Originally Posted by Samdari

As for Hall recovering and making plays, he is second in the league in passes defensed, near the top in interceptions and tops for CBs in tackles. That is what I am talking about, making plays.

Why would you pay a CB who cannot cover 1v1? Because there are roughly 160 NFL CB jobs and somewhere between 2 and 10 guys who can cover 1v1 effectively. Those guys are few and far between. The number of guys who can cover 1v1 for as long as it takes the Raiders pass rush to get to the QB? 2. Pass offenses are too refined and effective these days to expect guys to cover like that, you need to make your defense a bit more refined as well.

Cutting a guy with that much ability because you cannot play football like you did in 1979 is insane. Even if you accept the premise that its a sunk cost, doing it this early proves the insanity thing. You scouted him, you wanted him, you invested a lot to go out and get him. You also fired the guy who you considered insubordinate because he disagreed with the moves you are now undoing. The layers of insanity here are mind boggling.

And if you think he was bad, wait till you see how bad their defense will be without him.

And besides, he was the #1 scoring CB in EFS, and him being teamless severely weakens my contending team. I hate when teams make moves without considering the fantasy implications.

Hall also gave up (I think) the most yards of any CB in the league. That being said, this move really hurt the locker room. Aso came out and openly criticized the move. The problem with Davis is that he plays an archaic defense week in and week out. They put their corners on the receivers and all the receiver has to do is run a hook route and bring the corner up while the slot or TE runs a post or corner route and is open. Aso is probably the best man cover corner in the league, bar none. How he does in zone coverage we don't really know since they haven't played it much. What's better, shutting down a receiver or shutting down a side of the field? Also, the opposing offenses know that Aso sticks to the right side of the field. Put your #2 receiver over there, your #1 receiver on Hall (who is much shorter) and let him rip.

Arrrrrrrgh. I forgot. I wish Gibril Wilson would get cut too. He doesn't deserve this mess.

What's sad is that the players and fans deserve better from the ownership. I felt like I wanted a refund from the Sunday Ticket last weekend with -2 offensive yards in the first half. I listened to Raider Greg's podcast and he had callers from the game that were demanding refunds for their tickets. We were promised a competitive team...not a team that could be beat by a community college.

[SFL Cat]

Al Davis needs to stop now before he totally destroys whatever respectable legacy he has left.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Hall also gave up (I think) the most yards of any CB in the league.

Really, how do you measure this?

I'll buy from Raider fans that Hall was letting his guy catch the ball in front of him a lot - you guys have watched more Raider games than me.

But to measure yards given up for a CB, when most of the CBs in the league do not play 1v1 very often, let alone every play, is ludicrous. Its like comparing apples to pork chops.

I agree that Hall is not a top 10 CB, nor worth the money. I do think he's NFL starter caliber and I doubt the #3 CB on the Raiders is. They are going to get worse with this move, not better.

And they don't even have draft picks to replenish the roster. Honestly, midway through 2008, and Raider fans already need to be looking ahead to the 2010 draft? It really makes me wonder if the league can do anything to get Davis declared unable to assist in his own defense.

[SnDvls]

I wish they'd cut Walter & Z. Miller so they would have at least a chance to play, in Walter's case, or play for a winner in Miller's case.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Samdari

As for Hall recovering and making plays, he is second in the league in passes defensed, near the top in interceptions and tops for CBs in tackles. That is what I am talking about, making plays.

That's because no one throws at Asomugha. Asomugha is without question THE top CB in the NFL.

Originally Posted by Samdari

Why would you pay a CB who cannot cover 1v1? Because there are roughly 160 NFL CB jobs and somewhere between 2 and 10 guys who can cover 1v1 effectively. Those guys are few and far between. The number of guys who can cover 1v1 for as long as it takes the Raiders pass rush to get to the QB? 2. Pass offenses are too refined and effective these days to expect guys to cover like that, you need to make your defense a bit more refined as well.

Cutting a guy with that much ability because you cannot play football like you did in 1979 is insane. Even if you accept the premise that its a sunk cost, doing it this early proves the insanity thing. You scouted him, you wanted him, you invested a lot to go out and get him. You also fired the guy who you considered insubordinate because he disagreed with the moves you are now undoing. The layers of insanity here are mind boggling.

The Raiders already have one of these premier guys in Asomugha. They don't or won't have enough cap space to keep both, which is why the extension given to Hall was profoundly stupid in the first place.

Now they can keep Asomugha. Oakland recognizing a sunk cost when they see it is a good thing.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

That's because no one throws at Asomugha. Asomugha is without question THE top CB in the NFL.

I think that might be a little misleading in my opinion. I see it more as, teams are saying, "Why bother throwing it Asomugha's way when there's so many other holes in the Raiders D we can exploit".

Just my opinion and what I've seen on game day.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So has Hall scheduled his press conference to annouce signing with the Cowboys, or will he just send out a press release?

I LOL'd

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'd actually trade places with you. The Bengals suck and are absolutely boring. At least you have an entertaining, shitty franchise.

I'm sure this is absolutely brutal to see some of this stuff, as a Raiders fan.

But from the outside looking in, I just have this picture of Al Davis going into the locker room, holding a revolver and a kitten and saying "Win this week or the kitty gets it". Then, after another demoralizing 44-14 loss, there's just this shot of Al Davis's office door and the sound of a gunshot and we're left to wonder if it was him or the kitten.

Or hell, "Raider Survivor", the gameshow where, if you play good enough, you'll get released from the Raiders! This week, Hall had a good game so he got voted off the island and is now free to escape Oakland. Something like that.

SI

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

The Raiders already have one of these premier guys in Asomugha. They don't or won't have enough cap space to keep both, which is why the extension given to Hall was profoundly stupid in the first place.

Now they can keep Asomugha. Oakland recognizing a sunk cost when they see it is a good thing.

But, it seems that the reason Davis did not want to keep Hall is that he was not a premiere guy. The only possible way you could play the defense Davis wants to play is to have the two best corners in the league. What he does not seem to realize is that nobody is going to hand him Champ Bailey or Cortland Finnegan.

I agree that Hall was underperforming his contract. To perform up to it, he'd have to be top 5 in the league. He's not. I do think he's in the top 30 though, and the only way it makes sense to release him is if you can use the resources his release frees up to get someone better.

In 2009, his release frees 2.5 million from the cap. He would have gotten 7.5 million in salary, plus a 1 million pro-rated cap charge had he stayed, for a total cap charge of 8.5 million. By releasing him, 6 million of his 7 million bonus is charged to next year. Is a premiere CB going to come to Oakland next year to play for the Raiders for a 2.5 mil cap charge? Is even a top 30 NFL CB going to play for that? Are any top 30 CBs even going to be free agents next year? Is a better player than Hall going to come for that 2.5 million?

On to 2010. Currently, its an uncapped year, so the cap savings for that year are irrelevant. Oh, and in addition to being uncapped, the rules pretty much prevent any huge names from being available, and huge money from being thrown around.

Will there likely be an extension to the CBA to prevent the uncapped years? Of course, both sides want it. Will the cap money freed up by Hall's release in 2010 make a difference in whether or not they keep Asonjhkbhjl? Of course not. Will it make a difference in whether or not they have money after that, and paying top 5 rookie money to 6 straight top 5 picks? I'd say this falls squarely in the "we don't know" category.

The good news is that the Raiders will be picking in the top 5 both years, and have ample opportunity to pick a good #2 CB. Of course, they could have kept Hall and used those picks to get some premiere linemen, and fix the biggest (player personnel) problems on the team.

I do agree they gave up too much to get Hall and paid him too much. I don't agree that cutting him goes anywhere towards correcting either of those decisions. They don't get the draft picks back, they don't get the money back. They don't get a better player at his position in 2008, its very unlikely they'd get one in 2009, and its far from guaranteed that this move makes them better in 2010.

And if you're going to cut a player to try to make up for the mistake of his big contract, the Hall deal looks positively great compared to Tommy Kelly and Javon Walker. He's all pro compared to those guys.

I don't think this was a move to improve the Raiders short or long term. It was a move to punish Hall for not being exactly what Davis thought he's be. And, oh, by the way, it punishes the Raiders more than Hall, who will be collecting another nice bonus no later than March of 2009, in addition to the 8 million he's collected from the Raiders so far this year. At worse, he'll get 2-3 million more for a 1 year deal this year, and another 5-6 in signing bonus (plus 1 million 2009 salary) for an at market contract next spring. Other teams will not pay him elite money, but they'll pay him "good #2 corner who's only 24" money. Which, by the way, will proabably rise in 2010 to approximately what the Raiders saved for that year by cutting Hall.

[MikeVic]

Cortland Finnegan?

[Logan]

No offense Samdari, but I'm amazed at the lofty light you're putting Hall in. He's a terrible cover corner, and everyone but the Raiders seemed to realize it.

[DeToxRox]

Raiders are blacked out locally too.

[Apathetic Lurker]

And you all though Matt Millen was bad? ...lol

[Danny]

It's tough being a Raiders fan, I've been mostly apathetic the last couple years regarding them on Sundays because it's the only way I've been able to keep being a fan and have them not frustrate me. Jim Harbaugh was my favorite player growing up after Montana retired, so wouldn't mind seeing him as coach, though it doesn't matter unless ownership changes.

[stevew]

Cortland Finnegan?

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Logan

No offense Samdari, but I'm amazed at the lofty light you're putting Hall in. He's a terrible cover corner, and everyone but the Raiders seemed to realize it.

I wouldn't call him terrible, just not very good at times, and definitely not the guy you want as your #1 CB.

He seems to lack the instincts to keep up with WRs that possess elite agility to make quick cuts. I think if you put him on some of the bigger better WRs in the league, like Marshall, Colston, Vincent, Moss, ect, he can more than hold his own on a consistent basis. And hell, maybe one day the light will come on and he will live up to being a #1 CB in the NFL. Wouldn't bet on that though.

[RendeR]

While suffering yet another bengals meltdown season, i find this thread wildly refreshing and lifting of my spirits in ways that only one of my most hated teams sucking could possibly do.

The only way this gets better is if its Dallas or San Fran going through this mess =)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RendeR

While suffering yet another bengals meltdown season, i find this thread wildly refreshing and lifting of my spirits in ways that only one of my most hated teams sucking could possibly do.

The only way this gets better is if its Dallas or San Fran going through this mess =)

Bengals	1-8
Raiders	2-6

[RendeR]

They got to play DETROIT, you look at OUR schedule and find a patsy like that.

please. The Raiders would still be winless with our schedule

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Logan

No offense Samdari, but I'm amazed at the lofty light you're putting Hall in.

By saying that I think he's in the top 30 CBs in the league, that I know he's in the top 96, and think he's "pretty good," or a capable #2, I am putting him in "lofty light"???

I have said repeatedly that I think he's not elite, and not worth the contract they gave him. I just happen to think that cutting him is a worse decision than signing him was. Hall is a good (but not great) football player. You don't get better cutting good football players.

The reason he has looked so bad with the Raiders is that they ask him to do something that only 4-8 guys in the league can do, and given the Raiders pass rush, ask him to do it longer than even those elite guys can. Playing opposite Aso magnifies the effect because he is one of those guys.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

By saying that I think he's in the top 30 CBs in the league, that I know he's in the top 96, and think he's "pretty good," or a capable #2, I am putting him in "lofty light"???

Yep. But that's just my opinion too I guess.

[gstelmack]

Apparently the Redskins have, um, "won" the sweepstakes for him.

[lordscarlet]

For under $500k, I think it's a good signing.