POLL: Greatest Pro Wrestler of All Time?

[Uncle Briggs]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Jake The Snake and the DDT!!!

A guy I know runs a local wrestling federation. His shows are mostly fundraisers. One show 1-2 years ago he hired Jake Roberts as his main event (but not the snake; that was $300 more). He said one of the first things Jake said when he picked him up at the airport was asking where he could get cocaine. Apparently he's never got that monkey off his back. Kind of made me sad to hear that story.

[EagleFan]

What? No Brooklyn Brawler?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't get how Hogan beats Flair in mic skills...I really don't. But it's your opinion.

At least you admit your WWF-markness - my problem with Hogan is that he never really "passed the torch" and made a lasting star. He always squashed down the people whom he had elevated to face him to keep himself on top. Flair on the other hand elevated other wrestlers all over the country (Ricky Steamboat, Sting, etc.), and had zero problem putting other wrestlers over to make them.

Well, c'mon. It's not like it's Hogan's fault the Ultimate Warrior crashed and burned. It's not his fault that the Rock's movie career took off (much better than his). It is true though, that he passed the torch, ummmmmmm...probably too many times and that as others have said about his ringwork is due to his ego.

Who was the better pro wrestler in WCW in the late nineties when both Flair and Hogan were there? The Outsiders were a good angle until Hogan turned them into a great angle and the nWo is what put WCW over the WWF. What was Flair doing at the time? (I don't ask that rhetorically....I can't seem to remember.)

Hogan was inarguably the face of the 80s WWF and arguably the face of the 90s WCW.

I also make the disclaimer that I am not a fan of Hogan but I can respect what he did for the industry. If you can take into account microphone skills as a factor for being the greatest Pro Wrestler of all time, then I think you should also factor what the wrestler did for the industry as well.

For the record, my favorite wrestlers were (in no particular order): Bret Hart, Jake the Snake, Booker T (and Stevie Ray), Curt Hennig (loved his "absolutely Perfect" spots), and the Rock.

[Schmidty]

The Brute Squad for me.

[DeToxRox]

Remember though about Hulk Hogan, he and his creative control is basically what killed WCW.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Remember though about Hulk Hogan, he and his creative control is basically what killed WCW.

yep. he's gotta take the blame for that as well

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Remember though about Hulk Hogan, he and his creative control is basically what killed WCW.

Nope. It was the fact that I was poor and couldn't afford cable from 2000-2001.

[molson]

Some fans seem to be obsessed with the merits of "putting guys over" but that's just one way to run a promotion. Something tells me Hogan and the WWF wouldn't have made as much money as they did if Hogan traded the belt 10 times with Paul Orndorff and King Kong Bundy.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Remember though about Hulk Hogan, he and his creative control is basically what killed WCW.

That's a little harsh. I blame the fact that they had literally hundreds of wrestlers on the roster (most completely unused), and tied themselves up in guaranteed contracts that weren't possibly sustainable even if business stayed steady.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by molson

That's a little harsh. I blame the fact that they had literally hundreds of wrestlers on the roster (most completely unused), and tied themselves up in guaranteed contracts that weren't possibly sustainable even if business stayed steady.

Well, from reading the Death of WCW, basically Hogan has control over anything that could effect his character so Bischoff ran everything by him, and Hulk ixnayed whatever he wanted.

He and Bisch are both equally culpable, but he made sure he looked good no matter what, and refused to work with people who didn't make big money.

Makes it hard to get guys in the Main Event.

[Izulde]

For me (though I haven't watched wrestling since the 80s and even then it was only sporadic), it comes down to this question:

Does wrestling become a national phenomenon without Hulk Hogan?

I say no and to me, that answers it.

[cartman]

Too bad the Von Erich's had the tendency to be suicidal, otherwise one of them could easily have ascended to the throne.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I don't know, that bald guy from Texas that he spent the last year of his WWE run building up went on to do OK.

SCSA started in June 1996 with Austin 3:16, then flipping the bird to McMahon. he didn't face Bret until Nov 1996. Also Bret lost to Austin 1 time and by DQ even. Bret didn't make Austin that is for sure.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Well, from reading the Death of WCW, basically Hogan has control over anything that could effect his character so Bischoff ran everything by him, and Hulk ixnayed whatever he wanted.

He and Bisch are both equally culpable, but he made sure he looked good no matter what, and refused to work with people who didn't make big money.

Makes it hard to get guys in the Main Event.

what both of you say is true also the fact that Master P, KISS and many others got tons of money thrown at them to have little to no draw back to WCW.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

what both of you say is true also the fact that Master P, KISS and many others got tons of money thrown at them to have little to no draw back to WCW.

hey - Master P and the No Limit Soldiers and the KISS Demon were fucking draw-tastic!!

[DrAFTjunkie]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Anyone who votes anything other than Flair I ask that you at least read this:
A TRIBUTE TO THE "NATURE BOY" RIC FLAIR: WOOOOOO! |

And for who put who over...
Flair's list:
Ricky Steamboat (went on to be WWF's #1 draw for about 18months after flair made him)
Harley Race (the original king crown and robe)
Lex Luger
Sting
Dusty Rhodes (some credit due just for carrying his fat ass)
Randy Savage (before he was thee macho man he was flair's biggest threat)
Roddy Piper
Greg Valentine
Ted Dibiase (before he was ever the million dollar man)
Magnum TA
Hell he even made ricky morton of the rock and roll express seem like a threat for a summer.

In my opinon, anyone voting Hogan probably doesnt realize that half of WWFs talent was groomed by Flair.

And BTW Work rate...REALLY?!?!! Flair did 2 dozen headliners for every interview hogan gave.....

To me Hogan is definitely flashier, and more famous and maybe even a bigger star...but Flair was better and more important

Agree with you on most points, but Dusty Rhodes' name included in the "put over" list is pure blasphemy. If Rhodes is continuously booking himself to lose to Flair, then who's putting over who? Meh...maybe I'm just biased. Dusty was my favorite as a kid. I was into horror movies and what not and I liked my wrestling bloody. You could always count on Dusty for that. Even if he wasn't wrestling that week, you just knew he was going to get attacked by 4 or 5 guys and beaten bloody during an interview. And what an interview it would be. He had GREAT mic, was quick and agile for his size, sold a bump very convincingly and in his prime, had the ability to electrify just as much as Hogan did...he just never had the market.

And as for Ric Flair carrying Dusty's fat ass, I don't know what to say. Well...there a plenty of things I'd like to say, but I need to go to bed. Let me just ask this: what matches were you watching?

[Neon_Chaos]

Bret should be on that list.

If anything else, Bret Hart made a star out of Steve Austin, thanks to their bitter 8-month feud in '96-'97.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here's a link to another reason why I voted Andre:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - PING: amdaily

I had never read any of that before. It's a cross between completely hilarious and tragic.

SI

[sterlingice]

Stop that rhyming now, I mean it.

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Anybody want a peanut?

SI

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Bret should be on that list.

If anything else, Bret Hart made a star out of Steve Austin, thanks to their bitter 8-month feud in '96-'97.

He had a big part but Vince McMahon as a heel is what made Austin huge. Bret getting screwed is the best thing he gave back to wrestling.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

SCSA started in June 1996 with Austin 3:16, then flipping the bird to McMahon. he didn't face Bret until Nov 1996. Also Bret lost to Austin 1 time and by DQ even. Bret didn't make Austin that is for sure.

Nobody "made" Austin entirely. But he was still a mid-carder when the Hart feud started. Their first match was played as if Austin lost on a rookie mistake but proved he could hang with the best.

The WM match was possibly the greatest double-turn in history, and Hart absolutely deserved credit for how perfectly it all came together. Imagine HHH or HBK letting a guy get over that much against them -- think they would have found a way to subtley undermine the whole thing? Putting a guy over isn't about wins or losses, and Hart put Austin over huge in that match (back then, having a guy not submit to a top star's finishing move was pretty much unheard of).

The feud afterwards, that started as Austin/Hart and evolved into the Canada/USA thing, absolutely helped cement Austin. Hart may not have jobbed to him in a match, but he made him long strong all summer long, including the famous ambulance angle on a Raw show that was entirely built around putting Austin over.

Austin would have been successful to some degree no matter what, but having a heel Hart show up every week all summer long to lecture US fans about how they shouldn't be cheering for Austin was a huge piece of him getting over as well as he did. Hart had the psychology of it nailed.

There's a reason they had Austin induct Hart into the HOF. He may not have made him, but you'd have a hard time finding a better example of an established star letting a newcomer get over at his expense.

[Capital]

Maple, this was Bret Hart at his best. I think this was Bret's best run in wrestling (although the long story with HBK is close). This bought Austin to the main event level that then brought Austin to unbelievable heights thanks to the heel McMahon character.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If lordscarlet voted Rock, and I voted Rock, why does Rock only have 1 vote?

I'm late responding, but I forgot to actually vote.

[lordscarlet]

dola: Actually, when I posted I don't think there was a poll yet.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'll go on record that I never liked Bret Hart.

I never liked Ric Flair.

Originally Posted by saldana

i went with the rock...hogan was a lousy worker in the ring (even he admits it) and i dont ever remember taking a beat down...flair and the rock occasionally ended up on the down side of a work, but hogan was so much of an egomaniac that he never wanted to do the job. flair and rock both put guys over alot more often than hogan.

i would have liked to see kurt angle on the list, but given the choices, no one i have ever seen gets the pop that Rock did when he came out.

The rock was the most electrifying man in sports entertainment. Seriously. He was, in my opinion, the Hulk Hogan of his time. No one fired the crowd up like The Rock. I think he was a more polished version of the 80s Hogan.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Now if we went with the best pure wrestlers, this list would look a lot different, but it needs to be based off of more then just how they work. I feel like it's a mixture of their workrate, how much money they drew, the ratings/buys they drew and a big one is how many stars did they make.

I am sure this will be hotly debated, but I am curious to see if this is more then a two person race.

Well, if you went with biggest draw its Hogan, then Austin and Rock. If you go as far as worker, its Flair, Race and then HHH, but Austin was really good until his first neck injury. I'd like to say Austin is the best ever, but I just don't think he had enough years on top to be number one all time.

I ended up going with Flair tho.

[BYU 14]

Hogan should not even be in this poll if you are talking about the "best" wrestler. There is no doubt he is the biggest draw, but on the mic and in the ring it is Flair hands down. Hogan was a one trick pony, get down early, hulk up, beat down, leg drop, pin.

Flair could work and carry most anyone to a great match.

Shawn Michaels and Terry Funk probably deserve more recognition as workers than half the people in the poll as well.

[condors]

there was mention of different booking style of Flair losing the title and Hogan not. Flair not only gave the impression he could lose the title but he would. Hogan i never thought he was going to lose the title.

I would have loved for a legit tough guy like tank abbot/frank shammrock no sell hogan's offense and see what would have happened. Flair had everyone and his brother no sell his offense. Yet he could still be a threat.

I would go see both NWA/WCW shows and WWF/WWE (and lucky for me being in philly ECW) there is little doubt in my mind that Hogan had a couple runs where he was off the charts (his start as wwf champ and when he became hollywood hogan) popularity wise but Flair night after night and year after year. There were many stretches of "Hogan Era" that he was fighting forgetable monster#63 in a match that everyone and his "brutha" had seen many times before and knew it was only a matter of time for the legdrop of doom.

As far as Hogan mic skills check out some of Billy "Superstar" Graham's interviews and you will see the same catch phrases. An actual quote from the pre hogan era "what you going to do when the pythons squeeze and squeeze the life out of you" You could say Nature Boy Ric Flair borrowed from other guys so its kinda mute. Mick Foley on the other hand would take whatever is going on and give a speech that would give you goosebumps. From "saving Mikey Whipwreck", Misses Foley's little boy has issues in the boiler room (leaving the mankind persona), and some of the best matches I have ever seen (him and Terry Funk in crazy matches in Japan, Hell in the Cell etc). I may just be a Foley mark but the fact i remember watching him work the "little" ECW crowd into a frenzy and putting himself in harms way for peanuts I don't think Flair or Hogan would have been able but more importantly would have wanted to. Mick is a best selling author and he been in movies and done all kinds of things and the fact he did it with little pay or recongnition for years post his WCW run. Lots of wrestlers could whip the "verbal" ECW fans into a frenzy but Mick could make them go silent, get happy, get mad and almost cry all in less than 10 minutes.

tldr version Hogan i didn't get, Flair was awsome, Mick Foley is god

[Sgran]

To hell with all this boring "objective" criteria. The funnest wrestlers were Hot Rod and the Macho Man. Yaaaaaaaaa

[Oilers9911]

Bret Hart. No doubt