Some crucial guidance needed...

[Qwikshot]

Ok, I've been a little dormant here lately, but it's with good reason. I've had my daughter since June 19th. For any who don't know the back story, sometime in January she moved from Pennsylvania and rather terrible conditioned area to the care of grandparents in Texas. This honeymoon ended in about six months as my ex-girlfriend decided it was no longer in her best interests to stay there and has met a man to move in.

Fast forward to June, my ex dropped my daughter off to me for the summer. It's been great, I've got daycare (a summer camp really) at work, and she's been my carpool buddy for the bulk of the summer. My ex even lent me temporary guardianship (not a court document but a notorized permission slip that I was granted powers to determine medical issues - but hey it's a start).

Now my daugher isn't enthused to go back, she's 7, but having no legal rights to her (since I'm not the birth father). Her grandmother stated over the phone that I have the ability to "keep" my daughter here. I have not visited a lawyer, nor do I plan to because I believe all legal backing is with my ex-girlfriend. I see no reason to pursue custody because A) it's a losing battle B) it would traumatize my daugther even if she does want to live with me.

My daughter does not know that I'm not her birth father (who has been absent in her life since 5 months before she was born). I was planning on telling her this year because I had hoped that the grandparents (who were supposed to but failed) to get guardianship which would have granted some stability in my daughter's life (she's been in 5 schools in 7 years). That has failed and I'm apprehensive of talking about something that I feel would cause further distress to her.

Anyway, my daughter brought to my attention that her teeth were hurting her. So I paid out of pocket to have her examined. Turns out that she had three teeth to be pulled and 4 filled. I paid out of pocket for all of this, my family has noticed that now my daughter is eating more and stating that she's eating pain-free. And that she has told this to her mom before but that nothing was ever done (I do recall my ex getting into a big fight with her mom about the grandmother taking my daughter to the dentist, so the grandmother gave up).

So my guidance is:

A) When is this stuff considered neglectful?
B) What is the age for a child to be emancipated from his/her parents? (I was told in PA it's 10 or 12)
C) Aside from going to see a lawyer, where is the best place to find information about this (I have a book on PA custody but I don't think I fit any of the parameters having not been the birth father nor the opportunity to adopt)
D) The grandmother has told me that my ex /may/ have outstanding warrants in PA, if this is true and my ex is arrested who retains care of my daughter (me with temporary guardianship in PA) or if my daughter is in Texas would she go into the care of her grand parents?

I want my daughter safe, I really don't want to tear her from her mom (I know it's crazy) but I am worried. Now my ex's new boyfriend seems normal (she has not divorced her husband yet), but I do worry about what happens when and if this relationship sours as my ex's grandparents refuse to let her back into her home.

I'm saddened that my daughter is going back to this mess - I have asked point blank to be able to adopt but that has been met with little headway. I'm glad that I was able to at least provide two months of fun, but it is hard.

Anyhow any help would be great.

[st.cronin]

It may not be a losing battle to try to keep her. I mean, it may be, but the only way to really know is to try. I realize I only have your point of view but it certainly seems like the best thing for all parties is for her to stay in your custody. I hope you try, and I hope it works out.

[DaddyTorgo]

man i remember this story from before. it's quite the mess, but it's apparent to me as a neutral 3rd party that you definately have the kid's best interests at heart.

I'd see about speaking to a lawyer - at some point it might make sense to try to fight it - particularly if you get a judge who is pro-kid. Alternatively, if ex-gf's grandparents got custody could/would they offer you the opportunity to legally adopt?

[Alan T]

First thing that you need to be clear on is what state is your daughter's legal residence in? I was a bit confused with all of the moving around you mentioned (as well as remembering past parts of this story.. for some reason I thought she was out west, I might have remembered that wrong)....

Either way, you probably have to look at what the laws are in the state of the legal residence of the daughter. I am not a lawyer, and my only brief time looking into custody laws was when my sister moved out of the country with her kids because of father neglect reasons.

My gut instinct without being a lawyer or knowing the laws governing the state your daughter resides in is that you will likely have a very uphill battle either way. You would first have to prove neglect (which might not be that difficult if there truly is neglect there), but then if the courts agreed that your daughter was neglected, that doesn't mean she automatically would be awarded to your custody.. that would be an entirely different court battle most likely.

I would have to guess the easiest approach to improve your daughter's life would be for a blood relative (such as her grandparents) do what they need to in order to win custody, and then you work with them to try to help improve her life.

Unfortunately my guess is that you are correct that as you were not her birth father nor did you ever have the opportunity to adopt her, your legal options are pretty limited to mainly trying to look out for her best interest in getting her out of an abuseful home.

[Qwikshot]

First off, thank you for the responses. It's just one of those "sad" situations. I'm bidding my time I guess, but at some point you wonder if that is as bad, just waiting for a mess-up than just going forth and doing something.

My ex does love her daughter, but her parenting skills are tantamount to amateur at best. The bulk of my daughter's infancy was being raised by me and my family. Someone has always been there to care and provide.

When my daughter says she wants to live me with me, I state I would love that, but I also explained that in doing so, her time with her mom would be limited. She doesn't seem to worry over this, but I can't help but believe that she would at some point be missing her (case in point: she has not stated she misses her mom at any point in our two months, nor has she asked to contact her, but when I brought up about the hurricane she was worried for her mom to the point of calling her.)

I know I've lasted this long in the game because my ex doesn't see me as a threat - perhaps a glorified babysitter. My ex has never made overtures to deny my visitation or contact to my daughter, nor has she made an effort to bring to truth that I'm not my daughter's birth father.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

man i remember this story from before. it's quite the mess, but it's apparent to me as a neutral 3rd party that you definately have the kid's best interests at heart.

I'd see about speaking to a lawyer - at some point it might make sense to try to fight it - particularly if you get a judge who is pro-kid. Alternatively, if ex-gf's grandparents got custody could/would they offer you the opportunity to legally adopt?

The whole point for my ex to move to Texas was to get away from the bad environment in Scranton (My ex was a manager at a "showbar" which was right next door to the place of residence my daughter was staying, my daughter was missing school at a decent clip, no social interaction with children, and stuck at home with a pit bull, a non-housebroken lab, and a step-dad who stayed holed up in his office working on websites that I believe were related to my ex's place of profession)

I was all for the Texas move because I thought my daughter's grandparents would wrest control and thus begin to raise my daughter (I would get to see Zia in limited fashion like now, but I could sleep at night because there would be dental and doctor checkups, true care and insurance, plus soccer or gymnastics, and going to school, plus a neighborhood with children for my daughter to play with) - I was fine with it, because I knew it would be better for her.

My daughter's grandparents are so fed up with my ex that they've actually considered shunning /both/ of them. (This is where I guess my ex's parenting comes into play). I mean I've been dealing with this stuff for 5 years since the break-up, they get 6 months and they fail to do the one thing that was their goal, get custody to care for my daughter.

That was frustrating, now they're washing their hands of it.

I continue to proceed though with hope that one day my child with get some stability. I try to explain to her that it's going to be hard, but even if she can't see me, it doesn't mean I'm not there for her. Heck, I've already visited Texas once (the soon to be ex-husband has been angry because he isn't allowed to see my daughter (not my decision but he's a tad troublesome in his own way) yet he's never once talked to the grandparents, or tried to visit my daughter in Texas.

The goal is stability for my daughter, without worrying about her getting caught in the system. I will continue to be as vigilant as I can be, and I hope that next summer can come really fast. (I was already granted the ability to have her next summer).

[Qwikshot]

Alan - I'm positive that she's a resident of Texas now. She's enrolled in their schools. I have told the grandmother that I believe there should be problems in Texas that social services would only have the recourse to take my daughter and leave her in the grandmother's care (the relatives all live near Hershey PA).

[Mrs. Schmidty]

It is so, so, SO hard to prove neglect and/or abuse. Most of the child welfare agencies are understaffed and therefore focus on the children that are in life threatening situations that can more easily be proven and resolved.

I have a friend here in Washington that works for CPS and her hands are tied in so many situations it's heart breaking. Before knowing her I would blame the agency for the children left in deplorable situations, but really, it's the laws how they're written and lack of funding for the appropriate amount of staff. They have to prioritize and save the ones they really have a shot at saving.

You have to be prepared to be the one to do all the leg work and hope to find a contact in Texas that will be your eyes and ears. I would definitely try to stay in contact with the grandparents and have them be your advocates there. You also have to do what you can to stay in your daughter's life. You don't want to rock the boat so much that your ex cuts you off - like you said, you're not a threat to her yet.

It will be most important that your daughter continues to know that you care and are looking out for her even though you live far away. As she gets older she'll be able to draw on the history you two have for support and stability. You don't have to live close to give her that, though of course that helps.

I don't know what you do for a living, but does your employer offer an Employee Assistance Program? Mine does and I get free legal consultations and discounted legal fees because of it so it may be something to look at. If you don't have anything like that, I know that there are lawyers here that twice a month meet folks at the local library and offer free legal advice. They take on some cases pro-bono as well.

You're doing the right thing.

[Comey]

That's a shame if they live near Hershey...so much for a kid there, and wonderful school systems (though Central Dauphin has overpopulation problems, as does East, if they're in that school district).

That said, I think you should do what you can. You have to do what's in the best interest of the young girl's future. Screw the mom; from what you say, it's obvious that A) the girl is not in an enviornment conducive to her development, and B) the mom is not interested in her well-being. There's a difference between loving something and caring for it. And this girl, in this situation, is not being cared for.

You owe nothing to the mother. And, while I do understand that this can really hurt you in the end (as you could lose her all together), I think this is something you have to fight for.

At the very least, you *should* speak to a lawyer and see what kind of strength you have for a case. There's no harm in that.

[RomaGoth]

I can sympathize with you to some extent because of what me and my wife are going through with an adoption.

Since you have been in your daughter's life since she was born, you will probably have more of a case for custody/adoption than someone who was only around for a short little while. With this being said, however, it will be an uphill battle for you. As others here have said, proving neglect can be difficult, and due to understaffed government agencies (i.e. CPS), they will only focus on the obvious cases of neglect. I recommend you speak to a lawyer about your options and get their advice as to what your best course of action is. Above all, make sure that your daughter knows that you love her and are there for her no matter what. Ultimately, that could be what helps you both through this and into greener pastures.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

This may sound flippant, and is probably very illegal....but why not offer your ex a pile of cash in exchange for legal guardianship? Have an attorney draft a document giving you full rights, limiting what this chick can say about the situation, etc...and have it in one hand. A pile of cash, cash that you would have spent on a custody battle, in the other hand and have the ex make the choice. A pile of cash and no little kid to interfere with the new man...or a protracted custody battle that will give her baggage and potentially ruin her new relationship. The choice can be hers.

Seriously, this chick sounds like the kind of chick that might go for it.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

This may sound flippant, and is probably very illegal....but why not offer your ex a pile of cash in exchange for legal guardianship? Have an attorney draft a document giving you full rights, limiting what this chick can say about the situation, etc...and have it in one hand. A pile of cash, cash that you would have spent on a custody battle, in the other hand and have the ex make the choice. A pile of cash and no little kid to interfere with the new man...or a protracted custody battle that will give her baggage and potentially ruin her new relationship. The choice can be hers.

Seriously, this chick sounds like the kind of chick that might go for it.

I haven't heard this many uses of "chick" since Happy Days.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I haven't heard this many uses of "chick" since Happy Days.

I was thinking of throwing a "chippie" in there somewhere too.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

I was thinking of throwing a "chippie" in there somewhere too.

Throw in a "Potsie" and you have a winner.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

In all seriousnes, though I was serious about buying her off.... what is it that you want, ultimately, Qwik?

Do you want custody? Or just to ensure your ex takes proper care of your daughter? Custody you can fight for. Forcing your ex to be a good parent isn't possible.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

This may sound flippant, and is probably very illegal....but why not offer your ex a pile of cash in exchange for legal guardianship? Have an attorney draft a document giving you full rights, limiting what this chick can say about the situation, etc...and have it in one hand. A pile of cash, cash that you would have spent on a custody battle, in the other hand and have the ex make the choice. A pile of cash and no little kid to interfere with the new man...or a protracted custody battle that will give her baggage and potentially ruin her new relationship. The choice can be hers.

Seriously, this chick sounds like the kind of chick that might go for it.

I like this idea.

[CamEdwards]

Farrah's awesomely devious in that way.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Farrah's awesomely devious in that way.

That's probably the nicest thing you've ever said to me Mr. Edwards. I blush.

[Qwikshot]

I appreciate all the support and info.

I would love to keep my daughter with me, full time. But I'm realistic in that it is highly unlikely at this time. I suppose I could talk with my ex's family members but I feel that anything is a gamble...blood is thicker than water and while I do believe that most of my ex's family is disappointed, disgusted, or frustrated, the majority would rather this stay "in family" than out. I also worry that if I would broach the subject "outside of my ex's mom - who can be supportive or not - depends when i talk to her" I would fear reprisals.

As for offering the money, I have none, at least probably not a figure that would work to my ex's liking (for all the complaints my ex is staunchly opposed to giving up her child to anyone). My ex's mother offered a few options to her to outright adopt my daughter (or at least obtain guardianship)...option a was like 20k, option b was like a house and car and paying for college (she dropped out). Option B ceased when the parents realized their daughter (my ex) barely cooked or cleaned while living with them.

To me, I would only want my ex to outright give my daughter to me or my ex's parents (I doubt anyone in Hershey would step up). I don't think that my ex's mom would object to my daughter living with me. But to do this, I would want my ex's approval, that would mean she realizes that she cannot take care of my daughter (this is highly suspect), but my ex may be up on warrants, so if incarceration is a possibility, there is a greater pressure on her to make arrangements.

Not to sound morbid, but my ex hasn't made a living will to determine where my daughter should go. I at least have a written will determine monetary care for my daughter. My ex has stated several times that my daughter would go to me in case of something happening to her, but if it isn't documented it means nothing (and to be clear, I wish nothing ill of my ex, I feel she's an emotional/mentally damaged young woman who needs to fix herself - I don't think she'll ever be 100%) She's no fool either, she knows she has power in having her daughter. If her mom shuns her, there's always her father in Hershey, or my daughter's birth family, or someone else....there's always someone else.

I just keep biding my time, the temporary guardianship was a big thing, and knowing my ex, I knew she wouldn't write it up, she asked me to (of course she looked it over)...but to me, this means that my ex at least is willing to give me the latitude to care for my daughter.

I really wish though, since my ex is such a free spirit that she would see how much better off she would be with her daughter in the care of more grounded people. But my ex has always wanted things both ways, even if it's at the expense of her child.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

You know one thing you could do to get the ball rolling without her knowing, is doing the preliminary stuff for adoption. I know three couples here in Washington that are in the process and they had to go through becoming foster parents first. They each have families that want to place their children with them specifically (they don't have to take random children if they don't want to). All three of the couples took the parenting classes, did the background checks and home inspections. They also had to take first aid classes.

I don't know what the law is in your state or hers, but you might look into doing that to show how serious you are about providing a safe environment for your daughter.

[Desnudo]

Why is your ex so adamant about keeping her daughter, aside from the obvious? If you understand her motivation, then that may provide a way to negotiate a solution.

Although not an ideal situation, even your limited presence in her life may make the difference down the road.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Your ex will never admit to you, or even herself, that she cannot take care of her daughter. That requires a level of self reflection and honesty that doesn't appear to be present in this selfish, immature cow. If you truly think your daughter being with you is the best for her, I suggest you reconsider getting your daughter outright with your ex's approval, because that will never be possible. Even if the cow is incarcerated....you'll still only be a temporary sitter while she's in prison.

Why do you assume automatically that you wouldn't get custody if you pushed this in court? Is it because you're not the bio dad? Are you on the birth certificate? Are you the only 'Dad' she's known? Those things count, and are given more consideration in custody cases than they used to be.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Your ex will never admit to you, or even herself, that she cannot take care of her daughter. That requires a level of self reflection and honesty that doesn't appear to be present in this selfish, immature cow. If you truly think your daughter being with you is the best for her, I suggest you reconsider getting your daughter outright with your ex's approval, because that will never be possible. Even if the cow is incarcerated....you'll still only be a temporary sitter while she's in prison.

Why do you assume automatically that you wouldn't get custody if you pushed this in court? Is it because you're not the bio dad? Are you on the birth certificate? Are you the only 'Dad' she's known? Those things count, and are given more consideration in custody cases than they used to be.

I was present at the birth, but I am not on the birth certificate.
My daughter only knows me as her dad/father, she does has a step-dad, but calls me her real dad (I cannot wait to have to explain all of this at a future date).

I will talk with a lawyer, but I guess what I'm looking for is a lock...this is an uphill battle and this is a special case situation.

The whole neglect thing aside, I know is hard to prove, I don't feel I could ever win a case on that (my ex has been contacted I believe twice by social services - neither was by me).

There is a lot here that can make you state she's a bad parent, but not enough in my belief that would cause a court to grant custody. (My ex is heavy into the swinger life and there have been allusions to recreational drugs, but again, tough to prove especially now that she's out of state).

There is the possibility I could talk to the future ex-husband, but I doubt he would incriminate himself concerning my daughter's well-being (this is a guy who has gone to jail for not paying child support for his own daughter).

This is serious fodder for Jerry Springer I know.

I am trying to maintain connections with my ex's mom but she herself I think is disgusted by her own child (calls the new guy a devil worshipper, I have met the new guy and ). I think she's prone to exagerating and exacerbating the situation, but she has stated that I could keep my daughter if I wanted to (I stated that without court approval, I have no recourse but to send my daughter back to Texas at this time).

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I was present at the birth, but I am not on the birth certificate.
My daughter only knows me as her dad/father, she does has a step-dad, but calls me her real dad (I cannot wait to have to explain all of this at a future date).

I will talk with a lawyer, but I guess what I'm looking for is a lock...this is an uphill battle and this is a special case situation.

The whole neglect thing aside, I know is hard to prove, I don't feel I could ever win a case on that (my ex has been contacted I believe twice by social services - neither was by me).

There is a lot here that can make you state she's a bad parent, but not enough in my belief that would cause a court to grant custody. (My ex is heavy into the swinger life and there have been allusions to recreational drugs, but again, tough to prove especially now that she's out of state).

There is the possibility I could talk to the future ex-husband, but I doubt he would incriminate himself concerning my daughter's well-being (this is a guy who has gone to jail for not paying child support for his own daughter).

This is serious fodder for Jerry Springer I know.

I am trying to maintain connections with my ex's mom but she herself I think is disgusted by her own child (calls the new guy a devil worshipper, I have met the new guy and ). I think she's prone to exagerating and exacerbating the situation, but she has stated that I could keep my daughter if I wanted to (I stated that without court approval, I have no recourse but to send my daughter back to Texas at this time).

What a mess. I really want to bitch slap your ex and tell her to start treating her child like a child and not an accessory and not something to improve her self esteem. Alas, I know violence is not the answer.

I think the lawyer is a good idea. If you aren't able to get full custody, I hope you can at least get more than what you have now, ordered by a legal authority that will happily hold the cow in contempt if she doesn't deliver the kid.

Of course, if this were me....I'd be placing a few phone calls to the authorities in PA if the cow wouldn't take the cash and run.