Toshiba/Sony enter major price war; HD-DVD/Blu-ray player prices plummet...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Big news in regards to hi-def movie stand-alone players. They're going to get as cheap as sub-$300 by Father's Day. We could see players as cheap as sub-$200 by the holidays......

Does Sony Have a Blu-ray Surprise?
One high-end electronics store gets an alert that Sony's new player will cost just $499.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (June 1, 2007) -- Sony has said publicly that it will launch a second generation Blu-ray this summer for $599.

However, TVPredictions.com has learned that at least one electronics chain in the Washington, D.C. area has been notified that the player (Model: BDP-S300) will be priced at $499.

The chain's representative spoke to TVPredictions.com in confidence. However, he said Sony plans to ship the new Blu-ray player late this month and it will cost $499.

The lower price would not be too surprising considering that Toshiba recently introduced a $399 HD DVD player with hints that it will be reduced even further this summer. (In fact, Toshiba is now offering a Father's Day promotion selling the HD-A2 HD DVD player for $299.)

Consequently, Blu-ray manufacturers are under great pressure to drop player prices faster than previously scheduled; Sony is the chief supporter of the Blu-ray format.

[wade moore]

More bad news for the PS3?

[sterlingice]

I actually think this is ok for the PS3. You've gotta start to get some mainstream adoption of Blu-Ray format to get people interested in buying it for the PS3 aspect. I know Sony was hoping it would work the other way around but it's just not happening.

SI

[stevew]

the blue glass sony one dropped to 799 the other day. that loud noise you heard was a collective sigh.

[JeffNights]

I dig that sig stevw.....John Rambo rules.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by wade moore

More bad news for the PS3?

If the mass production of blu-ray players brings down the price of components, this could be very good news for the PS3 in the long run, though it will not help them with their currently unsold stock.

[CraigSca]

But doesn't that kill the whole, "it's not just a PS3, it's a blue-ray player for $599!" strategy used by Sony?

[thesloppy]

I wonder how many people are buying either of the HD-DVD options without any clue whether their TV supports it (I assume it's 1080p, right)? Wasn't there an article referenced here recently saying that roughly 50% of those with HDTVs don't realize they aren't actually watching HD? My ma recently bought a nice HD LCD, and she's plugging analog cable into that sucker and connecting it to a VCR with RCA jacks. YESSS! I've tried to start many a talk with her about component cables and progressive versus interlaced ad blahblahblah, but her eyes roll back into her head almost immediately.

I haven't even bothered to process anything related to HD-DVD, cuz I know that I'd have to scrap the crappy two year-old HDTV I've already got and buy a new one in order to have any effect.....and of course none of the advertising, for players or discs, is going to tell you "Hey, you're gonna need a new TV to take advantage of this.". I really wonder what percentage of consumers actually fully understands their entertainment system and is using every component correctly....15%? 25%?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I wonder how many people are buying either of the HD-DVD options without any clue whether their TV supports it (I assume it's 1080p, right)? Wasn't there an article referenced here recently saying that roughly 50% of those with HDTVs don't realize they aren't actually watching HD? My ma recently bought a nice HD LCD, and she's plugging analog cable into that sucker and connecting it to a VCR with RCA jacks. YESSS! I've tried to start many a talk with her about component cables and progressive versus interlaced ad blahblahblah, but her eyes roll back into her head almost immediately.

I haven't even bothered to process anything related to HD-DVD, cuz I know that I'd have to scrap the crappy two year-old HDTV I've already got and buy a new one in order to have any effect.....and of course none of the advertising, for players or discs, is going to tell you "Hey, you're gonna need a new TV to take advantage of this.". I really wonder what percentage of consumers actually fully understands their entertainment system and is using every component correctly....15%? 25%?

Ae you under the impression that 1080p is required for HD DVDs? Not even close...720p/1080i is perfectly sufficient. As we talked about in the last HDTV thread, 1080p is only a small enhancement over 1080i when you're talking about a MONSTER screen or when you're sitting very close to the screen.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

But doesn't that kill the whole, "it's not just a PS3, it's a blue-ray player for $599!" strategy used by Sony?

Yes, but it will also help to bring down the price of the PS3 to a level that more people will be prepared to pay. The Blu-Ray player for "only" $600 strategy was terrible as most people buy playstations for games, not movies.

In the UK, HD tvs are still rare due to the fact that HD channels have only been around for a year or so. Blu-Ray disks are almost impossible to find, so convincing someone to spend $850 on a video game console is an extremely difficult task.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Yes, but it will also help to bring down the price of the PS3 to a level that more people will be prepared to pay. The Blu-Ray player for "only" $600 strategy was terrible as most people buy playstations for games, not movies.

In the UK, HD tvs are still rare due to the fact that HD channels have only been around for a year or so. Blu-Ray disks are almost impossible to find, so convincing someone to spend $850 on a video game console is an extremely difficult task.

But this is all meaningless until the PS3 is brought down in price. If the Blu-Ray players start going down at a much faster pace than the PS3's then they completely lose the market of people buying the PS3 for that. Hell - I HATE the idea of my game machine being my DVD player anyways.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

But this is all meaningless until the PS3 is brought down in price. If the Blu-Ray players start going down at a much faster pace than the PS3's then they completely lose the market of people buying the PS3 for that. Hell - I HATE the idea of my game machine being my DVD player anyways.

If the BR players start moving units, it's a big deal for Sony. They'll be able to drop the PS3 price a whole lot quicker than they would otherwise. They'll also be able to drop it lower than they could have previously.

The PS3 is still a gaming machine first and BR player second. While you may hate the combination, there were multiple people in previous threads (including myself) who bought it because of the increased value it provides for those of us that want both. The next move is a price drop and it will probably come much quicker than before given the big price drop on the stand-alone players.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Logan

Ae you under the impression that 1080p is required for HD DVDs? Not even close...720p/1080i is perfectly sufficient. As we talked about in the last HDTV thread, 1080p is only a small enhancement over 1080i when you're talking about a MONSTER screen or when you're sitting very close to the screen.

Well see, there you go, I guess in my ignorance I can serve as an example of exactly the kind of confusion that exists in the world of HDTV.

[Eaglesfan27]

How much does the Cell Processor cost? I'm not sure that Blu-Ray price drop will cause the PS3 price to drop a significant amount.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If the BR players start moving units, it's a big deal for Sony. They'll be able to drop the PS3 price a whole lot quicker than they would otherwise. They'll also be able to drop it lower than they could have previously.

The PS3 is still a gaming machine first and BR player second. While you may hate the combination, there were multiple people in previous threads (including myself) who bought it because of the increased value it provides for those of us that want both. The next move is a price drop and it will probably come much quicker than before given the big price drop on the stand-alone players.

But that's my point, those people that were buying it for BR will not, and those like me that could care less about BR still hate the price. You say Sony will be "able to" drop the prices... that's a FAR cry from will... I think Sony has shown a large amount of ineptitude with the handling of the PS3 and I don't see how this will be any different..

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If the BR players start moving units, it's a big deal for Sony. They'll be able to drop the PS3 price a whole lot quicker than they would otherwise. They'll also be able to drop it lower than they could have previously.

The problem for Sony is that they are going to have to take a large financial hit on the machines they have already built, but are currently unsold.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

How much does the Cell Processor cost? I'm not sure that Blu-Ray price drop will cause the PS3 price to drop a significant amount.

Does the player run off of a cell processor too? If not, it's at least a p4 quality processor, if not higher. I believe the hd-dvd runs on a modified p4 type processor.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

The problem for Sony is that they are going to have to take a large financial hit on the machines they have already built, but are currently unsold.

That's true, but that was going to be the case anyway. The name of the game right now is market share and I think Sony would take a 30% price hit for existing units and gain 15% of the market than take a 10% hit and gain 5% of the market.

The best way to look at this is like a football team with an overpaid, unproductive bet. Do you cut him, take the $5 mil cap hit, but slide a promising young player in his role? Or do you continue to pay him and keep him in the lineup? The former case is what Sony will be involved with if the BR price goes down.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's true, but that was going to be the case anyway. The name of the game right now is market share

I think that if the PS3 price could be reduced to the same level as the XBox 360 Premium, the sales would skyrocket. I would expect the PS3 to outsell the 360 by some distance even if Microsoft reduced their prices.

[Karim]

I run Sony's first generation stand-alone BRP via component to an older HDTV (2000) at 1080i. I have no complaints. The set was ISF calibrated so the picture is great but what really blew me away was the 5.1 analog outs enabling me to here lossless audio. LPCM immediately made me realize I wouldn't regret being an early adopter.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's true, but that was going to be the case anyway. The name of the game right now is market share and I think Sony would take a 30% price hit for existing units and gain 15% of the market than take a 10% hit and gain 5% of the market.

The best way to look at this is like a football team with an overpaid, unproductive bet. Do you cut him, take the $5 mil cap hit, but slide a promising young player in his role? Or do you continue to pay him and keep him in the lineup? The former case is what Sony will be involved with if the BR price goes down.

Agreed. The financial hit is not really that big of a deal overall at this point. They'll gladly throw a few more logs of money into the fire to increase their market share. The quicker they get BR units moving in ANY form, the quicker they can gain a market foothold and it's just a domino effect between sales and demand after that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

I think that if the PS3 price could be reduced to the same level as the XBox 360 Premium, the sales would skyrocket. I would expect the PS3 to outsell the 360 by some distance even if Microsoft reduced their prices.

Not many people would disagree with that. The problem isn't the quality of the console, it's the price that is $120-200 higher than their competitor. Sony can try to sell the premium horsepower all they want, but they've got to lower the price to make a dent. Getting the BR units moving off the shelves and finishing off the format war would help Sony from both a pricing and bottom line perspective in the long run, which benefit both situations.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting opinion article triggered by the price drop in hi-def movie players. Sounds like Toshiba's going to take some major losses to try to salvage the HD-DVD format. Some of the discussion highlights just how intertwined the console war and the format war are at this point.........

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...oap060107.html

HD-DVD Buyers Beware (or... What Have You Done, Headgeek?!)

So here's the thing. We've gotten a few e-mails over the last couple days - okay, a lot more than a few - about Harry Knowles over at Ain't it Cool News going on the record saying that he's chosen HD-DVD and why, and how all his director friends tell him HD-DVD is the way to go, and how he "might be wrong" but has a knack for picking winning formats so there you go. Yeah. Well... look, we love Harry and the guys over at AICN. We love 'em a bunch. But flat out, we think Harry is wrong on this one. And since somebody needs to say it, we may as well step up to the plate.

It's funny, Doogan e-mailed yesterday about this: "I love the statement that his deciding factor was the reverse compatibility of HD-DVD. This is why people are afraid. Because people in power, who don't know s--t and shouldn't be talking s--t ARE talking. Harry should remove this post because it's flat out wrong." Todd... God bless him. All things considered, passion may have gotten the best of him there for a moment. But I understand his point. Like I said, Headgeek knows his movies and he is big-time plugged into the theatrical side of the business. He's entitled to his opinion, and I respect him for speaking his mind. But when it comes to the home video side, Harry's maybe a little out of his element. He seems to be rather new to the whole high-def disc thing. And unfortunately, he's got many of his facts wrong. [Editor's Note: The AICN post has since been edited, but the original comments are referenced here below.]

For the record, Harry says: "The kicker is... that it can play the 9000 or so DVDs I already have, as well as the HD DVDs. That Backwards compatibility feels right."

Well... a LOT of things feel right, and we agree, backwards compatibility is one of them. But Blu-ray is backwards compatible too. It is fully 100% capable of playing all your DVDs. Worth noting.

Later in the discussion thread, Harry claims: "Porn is HD DVD - it will win. I have faith in Porn."

Not to sully the good reputation of the porn biz, but this argument is so six months ago. As we've said before, porn will not decide this format war. Yes, porn decided the VHS/Betamax format war... because at the time, the only way to watch adult films was to visit a seedy movie theater on the wrong side of town or to spool up a Super-8 or 16mm film. So when porn on videotape became available (largely on VHS) that you could watch in the privacy of your own home, people went nuts for it. Unfortunately for Harry's argument, not only are there literally hundreds of thousands of $10 adult DVDs available, free porn is EVERYWHERE on the Net. And that's what companies like Vivid see as the future - downloading high-def porn to your PC. Read my lips: Skin flicks WILL NOT decide this format war.

Later, Harry adds more: "and right now... there's something along the lines of 545 titles on HD DVD and only 62 for Blue Ray. That's nearly getting close to 10 to 1 in terms of selection."

Here's a MAJOR fact check: According to Ralph Tribbey's excellent and highly accurate DVD Release Report, here's the official U.S. title tally as of 5/31 for each format: HD-DVD - 207 titles released, plus 54 more announced. Blu-ray - 241 titles released with 40 more announced.

Maybe Harry meant adult titles? Yeah, not so much. Adult DVD Empire shows all of 9 actual HD-DVD adult titles available at the moment.

How are all those high-def titles selling? Let's see what Nielsen VideoScan says (click here and look at page one of this digital edition of Home Media): As of 5/27, Blu-ray leads HD-DVD in overall software sales, 58% to 42% since both formats launched. The more recent trends are more lopsided: Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

How about the most recent sales numbers? Okay... let's consider 5/22, when Disney debuted both Pirates of the Caribbean films on Blu-ray against Warner's dual Matrix box sets on HD-DVD. According to Home Media: "The two “Pirates” films sold a combined total of nearly 47,000 units, while the higher-priced “Matrix” sets sold about 13,900 units." So more people purchased BOTH Pirates BDs than purchased any Matrix box set - even the cheaper one. Warner's recent The Departed provides another case in point. By their own admission, the studio sold 58,300 copies on Blu-ray and just 35,300 on HD-DVD.

As for Harry's later comment in the Talk Back about "a lot of Reg DVDs are beginning to master in higher resolutions..."

Here's the thing... the Hollywood studios have been mastering their films in high-def for DVD release for YEARS now. Plus, lots of cheap standard DVD players already upconvert 480p DVDs to 1080 resolution via HDMI. Not just HD-DVD players. And yes, Blu-ray players do this too. It's pretty a common feature these days.

Look... like I said, we love Harry. But we think he's wrong on this one. It seems his DVD player broke, and when he saw that Toshiba had slashed their HD-DVD player prices to $299, he couldn't resist. For that, we can't blame him. But we CANNOT join him in recommending the HD-DVD format to ANYONE, no matter how cheap.

We've been involved with the home video industry for ten years now. Way back in 1997, when most people didn't even know what DVD was, we were telling people it was going to be the biggest thing since the CD. We were having conversations with the Hollywood studios that first year, where even the most senior studio executives were telling us we were crazy to think DVD was ever going to be anything more than a niche format. But we were right then. We gave the world it's first look at Circuit City's Divx format, and then said it was going to fail. We were right about that too. We were right about the need for the studios to support DVD's anamorphic widescreen capability, to ensure the highest video quality possible at the time, and we lobbied them hard to do so. Here at The Bits, we interact on a daily basis with studio personnel at all levels, with authoring/technical staffers, with DVD producers, with filmmakers and with hardware manufacturers. So we're pretty good at having our finger on the pulse of the home video industry, and knowing what the trends are. And anyone who has read The Bits since we started will know that, over the years, we've been right about a LOT more things than we've been wrong.

And all of that experience tells us this: HD-DVD is not going to win this format war. In fact, one of two things is possible right now: Either Blu-ray will win, or neither format will win. But the best HD-DVD can hope for is to just keep hanging in the game as long as possible.

Our readers trust us to give it to them straight, and to help guide them through the confusing home video landscape in such a way that they don't end up wasting their money. HD-DVD is a great format technically, but its business model is an utter and complete disaster from which it will not recover.

Meanwhile, Blu-ray is just as good technically and quality-wise, it has the support of EVERY HOLLYWOOD STUDIO BUT UNIVERSAL, it has the support of the MAJORITY OF HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS, and nearly the ENTIRE computer industry. There are lots of great titles coming out, many more titles are on the way, there are more models of stand-alone players available and they're getting cheaper all the time. Blu-ray Disc is by FAR the smarter choice. If you want spend the safe money, there's your best bet.

We've been following this stupid, cursed high-def format war since the beginning, and it's driving us crazy. But we'll admit that maybe one good thing HAS come of it: HD-DVD cutting their prices so quickly has forced Blu-ray to do the same. But that's a double-edged sword.

Let's get back to that business model problem I mentioned a moment ago. It should come as a surprise to no one that Toshiba has been losing money on their HD-DVD players (as is typical for hardware of any new format in the first few years - BD manufacturers deal with this as well). But in the last couple of weeks, the company has been slashing prices dramatically and offering $100 rebates, effectively bringing the cost of the HD-A2 to $299. That seems like a great deal, and Harry certainly jumped on it. Hell, we wouldn't be surprised to see Toshiba slash down to $199 or even less by the holidays at this rate. But it means that Toshiba is losing even MORE money on HD-DVD hardware than they were before, which can't have a positive impact on their overall business. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call this a fire sale, but it sure smacks of desperation on Toshiba's part. But there's another, bigger problem with this as well. What other major HD-DVD manufacturer wants to compete with that?

The HD-DVD camp has long touted cheaper players as its big trump card, even going so far as to promote future super-cheap, off-brand models at CES this past January. But all this does is basically ensure that FEW OTHER MAJOR MANUFACTURERS WILL JOIN THE HD-DVD CAMP. Where's the business incentive to do so? If you can't make a profit, there's no point. Sure, LG and Samsung are making pricey combo players available that will play both HD-DVD and Blu-ray, but that's only because they know that a small enthusiast market will be willing to pay $1200+ for one. Neither has announced cheaper HD-DVD-only players to compete with Toshiba's and we think they're unlikely to do so. RCA has dabbled in the format with one model, the price of which has been slashed to move at $299 (down from around $500). Meridian revealed at CES that they may release one in the fall (likely be a pricier high-end model, targeted towards audio/video enthusiasts). But that's hardly a landslide of hardware support.

When you look at the facts and trends, it seem to us here at The Bits that the ONLY thing the HD-DVD camp has to crow about right now is that they're the cheaper option. If that's all you have going for you, cheaper might win you a battle or two, but without more studio and industry support, it's never going to win you the war.

Meanwhile, on the Blu-ray side, Stan Glasgow (the president of Sony Electronics) has made recent press statements to the effect that the company's Blu-ray players could drop to as low as $299 by the holidays this year (click here). Sony's new BD-S300 second-generation Blu-ray player is about to hit stores at $499. Other BD manufacturers (including Pioneer, Panasonic, Philips and Samsung) will have cheaper players available by the end of the year as well, some of them in the $399 price range. But again, here's the difference: They'll play Blu-ray movies from EVERY MAJOR HOLLYWOOD STUDIO BUT UNIVERSAL and yes... all your standard DVDs too.

Let's look at the studio support side. HD-DVD has just one major exclusive studio supporter: Universal. Blu-ray has FIVE: Disney, Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and Sony. Which group do you think is more likely to go format neutral first? For better or worse, one of the reasons some of these studios sided with Blu-ray exclusively is because that format offers them an additional layer of content protection: BD+ (the details of which Sony is soon to finalize according to this story at Audioholics). By the way, that Audioholics story hints that Fox has a particular interest in BD+ protection for its high-def titles, which could be why they've delayed all those Fox and MGM catalog Blu-ray titles they talked about at CES. With AACS already smarting from a series of cracks, hacks and work-arounds that have exposed existing high-def titles (including The Matrix) to copying, does anyone really think those studios are going to start releasing their titles on HD-DVD format, especially when Blu-ray is already dominating software sales? Again, there's no incentive whatsoever.

Speaking of Sony... you know it's funny. Based on the e-mails we get here at The Bits, it seems like hatred of Sony is one of the biggest reasons those who side with HD-DVD give for doing so. "What about that whole root kit fiasco? Sony sucks! They're all about greed! F--- Sony!!"

Well... this might surprise some people, but this format war is about NOTHING but greed, as we've been saying for years now. But there's plenty of greed to go around, believe me. So what about the CD root kit thing? Yeah, that was stupid. Sony should have gotten spanked for that, and it seems to us that did. But people tend to forget one thing about Sony. Back when it was time to negotiate the details of the DVD format between all the industry players, there were also two competing candidate formats. But Philips and Sony caved and abandoned their MultiMedia Compact Disc, and agreed to go along with Toshiba's SuperDensity Disc. The result was DVD - a single unified format from which we've all benefitted. What was the result of that? Toshiba made millions off the patents for the DVD disc structure, which Sony lost out on. At an industry conference last year, Warren Lieberfarb revealed during a panel that, right after standard DVD launched, Sony approached him about the need to start working on the high-def version, but the HD-DVD Group felt it was too early and wasn't interested. So Sony started working on their own high-def format. It's hard for us to fault Sony for not wanting to lose out on such massive royalty profits a second time. Certainly, Toshiba had no interest in sharing some of those royalty fees during the attempts to negotiate a single high-def standard. In any case, as a longtime manufacturer of video equipment, at least Sony has a legitimate reason to be in the game.

What we've found most puzzling about this format war, is why Microsoft - a company that makes neither movies and TV shows or home theater hardware, is arguably the single biggest corporate supporter of the HD-DVD format outside of Toshiba and Universal. And though no one will say it on the record (though many industry insiders admit, off the record, that they believe it), we'd be surprised if Microsoft wasn't subsidizing both Toshiba's hardware losses and Universal's exclusive commitment to HD-DVD in some way. That's just our gut feeling. We can't prove it. But even Warner, which has a significant financial stake in the disc structure patents for DVD (and thus HD-DVD) has opted to support both high-def formats. Meanwhile, Microsoft has an office of "HD-DVD Evangelism" in house.

So why would Microsoft do this? The are three reasons why it makes good business sense for the company. First, having HD-DVD playback capability on their Xbox 360 (via the add-on drive) is a smart strategic move to counter-balance Sony's having Blu-ray playback capability built into their PS3 system. Second, HD-DVD uses Microsoft's VC-1 video compression codec almost exclusively. For a variety of reasons - not the least of which is that it's a great codec - this has encouraged a number of Blu-ray Disc studios to adopt VC-1 as well, so more and more Blu-ray releases utilize it too. This again benefits Microsoft. But more importantly, Microsoft's real long-term goal is to dominate the content downloading arena - particularly the downloading of entertainment content to devices in living rooms. That's what many industry observers, including many in Hollywood, see as the ultimate future of the home video industry. Selling lots of Xbox 360s and having everyone adopt the VC-1 codec (not to mention their iHD interactivity spec) both work to further Microsoft's goals in this area by helping to drive the growth of Xbox Live. According to the company's own recent press releases, Xbox Live is already "the number one online distributor of television and feature film content in the living room where it's most easy for consumers to access." In addition, "the service has quickly become the number two online distributor of television and feature film content, second to iTunes." Finally, Xbox Live is currently "the ONLY online distributor of major feature films and television programming in high definition (HD) resolution."

Microsoft doesn't give a rip about HD-DVD, or movies on disc at all for that matter, except to the extent that backing HD-DVD for a while now both undermines Sony's efforts and leverages Microsoft's success in achieving their ultimate goal of dominating the future of online distribution of digital entertainment. That's how we see it.

So how do we foresee this format war playing out? Our prediction is that by this time next year, Universal will have gone format neutral, agreeing to support Blu-ray Disc in addition to HD-DVD. It could happen at CES in January 2008, it could even happen sooner. When that happens, and we do believe it's a matter of when and not if, this format war will effectively be over. Which matters not to Microsoft, because VC-1, the 360 and Xbox Live will do just fine either way. If Blu-ray begins to dominate this thing, Microsoft will simply announce a Blu-ray add-on drive for the 360 and continue on their merry way.

That doesn't mean that HD-DVD is going to die or disappear. We'd bet that most, if not all, of the studios that currently support HD-DVD will continue to do so, at least for a while. And I'll remind you (though I know many HD-DVD fans will continue to claim otherwise) that none of what we've said is intended to disparage the HD-DVD format itself. It's a great high-def format, capable of excellent video and sound quality and extras. We enjoy HD-DVD ourselves, and we'll continue to do so. But HD-DVD is just not going to win this format war. We just don't see any circumstance in which HD-DVD can best Blu-ray and dominate the HD disc market and, believe me, we agonize over this stuff every day.

The bottom line remains the same: Any way we slice it, when we look at ALL the facts, we think Blu-ray Disc remains the best bet in this format war, and the safer bet for consumers. That's just the way we see it.

We simply CANNOT and WILL NOT recommend to our readers that they adopt a format that only has the full support of just a HANDFUL of major hardware manufacturers and ONLY A HANDFUL of the Hollywood studios - no matter how cheap the price - when a format of EQUAL quality and FAR GREATER studio and manufacturer support exists.

Unlike those who hate Microsoft or hate Sony, our position isn't personal or emotional. Unlike those who work for HD-DVD and Blu-ray connected companies, we are not getting paid for our opinions or to generate media spin. Our opinions as expressed here are simply our own logical, common sense conclusions, based on our own research and experience. (For the record, regarding our advertising: We generally accept advertising from all interested parties within certain guidelines of good taste, and our advertising arrangements have NEVER and WILL NEVER influence our editorial opinions.)

We'll continue to enjoy HD-DVD discs and review them too, for those who may be interested. But if you want our opinion as to which HD format you should buy, unless circumstances change DRAMATICALLY, in all good conscience we simply can't recommend HD-DVD.

Simply put: If you're still not quite ready to get into high-def discs, then sit tight a little longer. The prices, selection and features of both hardware and software will all improve in the months ahead. On the other hand, if you ARE ready to get into high-def discs... we say Go Blu.

So yes... Blu-ray Disc is now officially the high-def format of choice for The Digital Bits. In the same way that we recommended everyone chose anamorphic widescreen DVDs over the alternative, we think you'll come to appreciate this advice in the months and years ahead as well.

To those of you who happen to disagree with us, favoring HD-DVD instead, more power to you and we respect your decision. We raise our glasses to you. (Skol, friends!)

It would be nice to think that we could just stay neutral in this thing, as some would rather we do indefinitely, but we just care too much about our readers, and about all the great things that have come about as a result of having a single, unified video disc standard for the last decade: DVD. But when the industry decided to spit in the face of that success, stubbornly taking opposing sides when it came time to launch high-def movies on disc (and to both HD camps, shame on all of you for it), they basically forced everyone else who really cares about this stuff to choose sides as well. We've tried to sit on the sidelines as long as we could, offering our carefully and logically reasoned opinions and advice whenever we felt it necessary or appropriate. But this stupid war has just dragged on too damn long. We're getting way too many frustrated e-mails from confused readers, who want to make the upgrade to high-def but are afraid to spend their hard-earned money on the wrong format. So it's time we made our choice, and we've decided to line-up with the overwhelming majority of studios and manufacturers behind Blu-ray.

It's a tough call for us, having to take sides. But it's time. Sometimes you just have to have the strength of your convictions and the balls to stand by them... and so we do and have.

Bill Hunt, Editor
(along with Todd and Adam and all the rest)
The Digital Bits
[email protected]

[Logan]

That's a lot of words.

[BrianD]

I used to visit The Digital Bits quite a bit in the early days of DVD and have always found the crew there to be pretty smart in terms of the technology and in their contacts in the movie industry. In fact, it was all of their knowledge that I decided to take the DVD plunge while Divx was still in the picture.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

That's a lot of words.

Yeah, sorry about that. I know some people can't read certain sites due to blocks, so I plugged it into the post.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More HD news. Reports are saying that the Macbooks will be manufactured with Blu-ray drives as early as next week. We'll likely see HD movie hardware installed as a standard in a lot of computers by early next year with the major price drops that now are making it an affordable option........

Blu-ray MacBook Pro Announcement Next Week?
Posted June 5, 2007 by Josh

Today, Apple announced updates to their MacBook Pro line of laptops. The updates include an HDCP compliant (required for Blu-ray playback) nVidia GeForce 8600M GT graphics card and an optional 1080p display for the 17" model. Both of these additions to the product line strongly hint that a Blu-ray drive announcement is forthcoming, possibly as early as next week during Apple's annual Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC).

Early this year, FastMac produced Blu-ray drives as direct replacements for many Apple products, proving that it can easily be done, though at a cost. Apple, who is a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), will have to respond to this third party upgrade or risk losing business to aftermarket vendors. Signs point to that response coming very soon.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

"But more importantly, Microsoft's real long-term goal is to dominate the content downloading arena - particularly the downloading of entertainment content to devices in living rooms. That's what many industry observers, including many in Hollywood, see as the ultimate future of the home video industry."

This is something I alluded to in the other format wars thread. And why I think even now the format war is becoming irrelevant.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

"But more importantly, Microsoft's real long-term goal is to dominate the content downloading arena - particularly the downloading of entertainment content to devices in living rooms. That's what many industry observers, including many in Hollywood, see as the ultimate future of the home video industry."

This is something I alluded to in the other format wars thread. And why I think even now the format war is becoming irrelevant.

I've read several articles that surmise the same thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of manufacturers expected to enter the HD media market. Should help drive costs down even further with the increased competition.....

News

New Blu-ray Players in the Near Future
Posted June 8, 2007 by Josh

News reports from all over the world have hinted at new Blu-ray players and drives coming from some well respected manufacturers in the coming months. Computer giant Asus has revealed their BC-1205PT Blu-ray computer drive. Priced at an entry level $270, this drive will read Blu-ray, DVD, and CD discs. Also hinted, was that we will soon see a Blu-ray player from JVC and possibly new players from LG and Philips.

Asus' drive will read Blu-ray discs at up to 5X speed, but will feature no write capability in order to keep costs down for HTPC enthusiasts. No specs have been announced for the other players at this time.

[stevew]

What is the difference between the HD HBO channel and say Blu Ray. I know that BD isn't as compressed, obviously. But the HD movies would be in pretty similar quality to those on a BD disk, correct? I only have a 37 inch 720p LCD, so I really don't notice artificats/whatnot. I DVR'd the whole Star Wars trilogy in HD the other day....was pretty amazing actually.

I'm guessing that HD HBO is essentially the same quality as an upconverted standard DVD perhaps?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by stevew

What is the difference between the HD HBO channel and say Blu Ray. I know that BD isn't as compressed, obviously. But the HD movies would be in pretty similar quality to those on a BD disk, correct? I only have a 37 inch 720p LCD, so I really don't notice artificats/whatnot. I DVR'd the whole Star Wars trilogy in HD the other day....was pretty amazing actually.

I'm guessing that HD HBO is essentially the same quality as an upconverted standard DVD perhaps?

I also DVR'd the series and was very impressed with the quality while watching the 1st one the other night. It is just a guess on my part, but I doubt the quality is that much below that of Blu-Ray or HD-DVR. It looked better than my upscaled standard DVD of the same movie.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I also DVR'd the series and was very impressed with the quality while watching the 1st one the other night. It is just a guess on my part, but I doubt the quality is that much below that of Blu-Ray or HD-DVR. It looked better than my upscaled standard DVD of the same movie.

I'm sure that the quality of equipment that HBO uses is better than what the upconverting DVD machine could achieve. It's obviously an actual digital picture for the more recent movies as they were actually recorded in HD. I watched 'Robots' on HBO HD the other day and it was REALLY nice.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm sure that the quality of equipment that HBO uses is better than what the upconverting DVD machine could achieve. It's obviously an actual digital picture for the more recent movies as they were actually recorded in HD. I watched 'Robots' on HBO HD the other day and it was REALLY nice.

How would you say it compared to Blu-Ray?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

How would you say it compared to Blu-Ray?

I think both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray player have a better picture than the HBO HD channel. Also, with both HD movie players, I think the quality of HDMI feed (if available) is substantially better than what you can get even with HDMI off a cable box. It just looks a lot more cleaner and vivid.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. These deals from Amazon seem to be coming out weekly anymore. Lots of cheap HD movies on BR and HD-DVD. These things have gone from $35-40 to less than $20-25 in a big hurry. I'm not sure what the main trigger is, but these movies have become very affordable. Most of the movies even in Best Buy have come down $10-15 from their price only 3 months ago.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...t_Off_List/695

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Toshiba has announced that they have slashed their forecast for stand-alone HD-DVD units sold by 40%. That's a lot of units not going out to market and may explain why they've gone to the drastic price cuts in recent days.

http://www.dailytech.com/Toshiba+Low...ticle7648.htm.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Blockbuster has announced that they will now carry Blu-ray videos in 1,450 stores, up from 250 that currently exist. Blockbuster said that 70% of all next-gen DVD's rented were Blu-ray. Blockbuster will continue to carry the HD-DVDs, but only in the original 250 stores with no plans to expand them to more stores.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939

[jbmagic]

HD DVD group says outselling Blu-ray in Europe

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - HD DVD video players have outsold rival standard Blu-ray players by a three-to-one margin in Europe's main markets so far this year, according to a lobby group.

The European HD DVD Promotional Group claimed it had 74 percent market share in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Switzerland for stand-alone players, citing sales figures it commissioned from market research group GfK.

GfK said it has not published research commissioned from the trade group.

The HD DVD group, led by Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and backed by Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and film studios including Warner Bros. (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research), declined to give figures for how many players it had shipped to retail outlets in Europe.

The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) (SNE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player.

The Sony-led Blu-ray lobby group includes Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. (005930.KS: Quote, Profile, Research), Apple Inc. (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and Dell Inc. (DELL.O: Quote, Profile, Research). Its discs, which are outselling HD DVD discs, can store more information and special features but the technology is more expensive.

Toshiba cut prices for its HD-E1 HD DVD player to 399 euros ($549) in Europe and $299 in the United States last month from 499 euros and $399, respectively.

Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player costs $499 in the United States, and its BDP-S1E European version has recently gone on sale, with prices starting at around 900 euros. Other Blu-ray players have been on sale in Europe for longer.

According to its Web site, Blu-ray is an optical disc format developed to enable recording, rewriting and playback of high-definition video. It claims to offer more than five times the storage capacity of traditional DVDs.

HD DVD (high-definition digital versatile disc) format claims to offer six times the picture resolution of normal DVDs and enhanced audio, according to its Web site.

oshiba's spokesman for the European HD DVD group, Olivier Van Vieandal, told Reuters that profit margins for its HD DVD players were comparable to those for its DVD players in Europe.

He declined to say whether Toshiba was selling players at a loss in the United States.

A mass market for high-definition video is still some way off. Blu-ray and HD DVD are battling for domination in a war reminiscent of the VHS-Betamax battle of the 1970s and 1980s. That war was won by VHS after about a decade.

Steve Nickerson, a Warner Bros spokesman for the HD DVD group, said still-high prices were partly to blame. "You can't get to mass-market consumption until you get to mass-market pricing," he told Reuters.

But Nickerson said the high-definition video market was developing faster than the DVD market had. "If we take a pragmatic approach, and understand we're still only selling to innovators, we are ahead of the DVD curve."

Van Vieandal said surveys had shown 70 percent of consumers would be prepared to buy a high-definition player once prices fall below $200.

Asked when Toshiba would cut prices to that level, he answered: "I can't say if it's likely this year, but it will happen, yes."

Nickerson added: "It took nearly four years for that price point to be achieved in DVD ... anything inside three years would be significantly improved compared to the DVD."

[jbmagic]

HD DVD group says outselling Blu-ray in Europe

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - HD DVD video players have outsold rival standard Blu-ray players by a three-to-one margin in Europe's main markets so far this year, according to a lobby group.

The European HD DVD Promotional Group claimed it had 74 percent market share in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Switzerland for stand-alone players, citing sales figures it commissioned from market research group GfK.

GfK said it has not published research commissioned from the trade group.

The HD DVD group, led by Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and backed by Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and film studios including Warner Bros. (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research), declined to give figures for how many players it had shipped to retail outlets in Europe.

The figures were for stand-alone players only and did not include sales of games consoles such as Sony Corp.'s (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) (SNE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) PlayStation 3, which contains a Blu-ray player.

The Sony-led Blu-ray lobby group includes Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. (005930.KS: Quote, Profile, Research), Apple Inc. (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and Dell Inc. (DELL.O: Quote, Profile, Research). Its discs, which are outselling HD DVD discs, can store more information and special features but the technology is more expensive.

Toshiba cut prices for its HD-E1 HD DVD player to 399 euros ($549) in Europe and $299 in the United States last month from 499 euros and $399, respectively.

Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray player costs $499 in the United States, and its BDP-S1E European version has recently gone on sale, with prices starting at around 900 euros. Other Blu-ray players have been on sale in Europe for longer.

According to its Web site, Blu-ray is an optical disc format developed to enable recording, rewriting and playback of high-definition video. It claims to offer more than five times the storage capacity of traditional DVDs.

HD DVD (high-definition digital versatile disc) format claims to offer six times the picture resolution of normal DVDs and enhanced audio, according to its Web site.

oshiba's spokesman for the European HD DVD group, Olivier Van Vieandal, told Reuters that profit margins for its HD DVD players were comparable to those for its DVD players in Europe.

He declined to say whether Toshiba was selling players at a loss in the United States.

A mass market for high-definition video is still some way off. Blu-ray and HD DVD are battling for domination in a war reminiscent of the VHS-Betamax battle of the 1970s and 1980s. That war was won by VHS after about a decade.

Steve Nickerson, a Warner Bros spokesman for the HD DVD group, said still-high prices were partly to blame. "You can't get to mass-market consumption until you get to mass-market pricing," he told Reuters.

But Nickerson said the high-definition video market was developing faster than the DVD market had. "If we take a pragmatic approach, and understand we're still only selling to innovators, we are ahead of the DVD curve."

Van Vieandal said surveys had shown 70 percent of consumers would be prepared to buy a high-definition player once prices fall below $200.

Asked when Toshiba would cut prices to that level, he answered: "I can't say if it's likely this year, but it will happen, yes."

Nickerson added: "It took nearly four years for that price point to be achieved in DVD ... anything inside three years would be significantly improved compared to the DVD."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

HD DVD group says outselling Blu-ray in Europe

No one's ever really disputed that. Most HD media player review sites have stated that the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player available and so most consumers interested in a BR player are purchasing the system as their home media device. The main indicator is the movies themselves. BR has a 70% market share when it comes to actual discs sold.

[sterlingice]

I have started seeing HD-DVD "product awareness" ads on tv in the past week. Now that I think about it, I haven't seen any for Blu-Ray except on movie commercials where things are "available on DVD and Blu-Ray" so maybe they need to start getting the public educated.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

A big blow to HD-DVD. Target has decided to carry only Blu-ray stand-alone players. No HD-DVD players will be sold. Rumors are swirling that Wal-mart may consider a similar move to match Target's move.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=349

[stevew]

Update
HD Format war at my job(in total units)

BD-1
HDDVD-0

BD maintains it's lead from December, and shows no sign of giving it up anytime soon. BSP-300 looking good in preseason.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Update
HD Format war at my job(in total units)

BD-1
HDDVD-0

BD maintains it's lead from December, and shows no sign of giving it up anytime soon. BSP-300 looking good in preseason.

LOL, nice. I'm guessing the sales will heat up as the holidays near. Likely to be sub-$300 players on both sides by then. I'm sure there will be quite a bit of cross-promotion between the push of HDTV's and their hi-def DVD counterparts. Not much reason to buy them right now knowing that they'll be half the price in 3-4 months.

[Bee]

I saw where the 360 HD-DVD add-on was now going for $180 with a mail-in offer for 5 movies. Not sure when that started, but I think it's pretty new.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

I saw where the 360 HD-DVD add-on was now going for $180 with a mail-in offer for 5 movies. Not sure when that started, but I think it's pretty new.

Yep, if you look hard enough, I've seen it where you can use coupons to get it for as cheap as $160.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interview of Universal Studios exec. States that Universal is receiving large incentives to stay with HD-DVD. Also admits that the HD-DVD format is 'very fragile' and if his studio starts to make Blu-ray movies, the format war will go to Blu-ray.

http://www.hollywoodinhidef.com/blog_detail.php?id=107

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Latest sales numbers are in for 2007. Sony continues to hold a 67% market share over HD-DVD.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/techno...19176920070815

Also, 2 retail chains in Australia have added to the growing list of retailers that no longer carry HD-DVD products. Thus far, no retail chains exclusively sell HD-DVD products.