OT: The FOFC Sports Moments Draft

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I was surprised no one used for controversy
the Bobby Riggs vs. Billie Jean King battle of the sexes "tennis" match.

Fixed.

(I guess I just helped make your point. )

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

So.......is there going to be a voting thread?

Eventually.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Surtt

That would have been a great "sleeper" pick.

I'd vote for it. He wasn't a Met at the time.

[Greyroofoo]

Something that I think would've made a great "Mr. Irrelevant" pick was Mike Vanderjagt's 50+ yard kick in the snow in OT to beat Denver. This was proceeded by another 50+ yard kick in the snow to send the game to OT.

I say it'd be a great Mr. Irrelvant pick because Vandy will only be remembered for his kick against Pittsburgh, and most people know ignore the fact that his field goal percentage is an NFL record and I believe he at least tied record for most consecutive field goals, but now most of his career is "Irrelevant".

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Something that I think would've made a great "Mr. Irrelevant" pick was Mike Vanderjagt's 50+ yard kick in the snow in OT to beat Denver. This was proceeded by another 50+ yard kick in the snow to send the game to OT.

I say it'd be a great Mr. Irrelvant pick because Vandy will only be remembered for his kick against Pittsburgh, and most people know ignore the fact that his field goal percentage is an NFL record and I believe he at least tied record for most consecutive field goals, but now most of his career is "Irrelevant".

I think it would be different if he wasn't such a jackass.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Well, it's still the "modern" record for batting average.

When does your modern era start? 1925?

Nap Lajoie hit .427 in 1901. If that's too early for you (1903 was the first WS), Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.

And technically, Nolan Ryan's 7th no-hitter, DiMaggio's 56th game and Cy Young's 511th win didn't break any records either (other than their own).

So, technically, they ARE records. Just because they held them at the time doesn't mean anything.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Nap Lajoie hit .427 in 1901. If that's too early for you (1903 was the first WS), Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.

My god, I've never heard of any of those guys. Is there like a web site or something where I could learn more?

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So, technically, they ARE records. Just because they held them at the time doesn't mean anything.

It doesn't mean anything at all? So Mark McGwire's 63th thru 70th HRs were just as memorable for you as his 62nd?

[Schmidty]

ISiddiqui does this every draft.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

My god, I've never heard of any of those guys. Is there like a web site or something where I could learn more?


It doesn't mean anything at all? So Mark McGwire's 63th thru 70th HRs were just as memorable for you as his 62nd?

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic with the Hornsby bit?

I think Isiddiqui is technically right here. Williams didn't break a record. Hornsby's .424 is generally considered the record by those who don't recognize LaJoie. And, yes, each time McGwire homered he set a new single season record, just as Sergei Bubka set a new pole vault record each time he cleared another quarter inch. A record can be broken multiple times and you can break your own record.

That said, I don't think your pick should be invalidated, but it will be interesting to see how the peanut gallery feels about it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Logan

So how did you feel about Adam Graves beating Brodeur in OT on another wraparound during that Mother's Day game in '97 that won the series?





(here's where you point out all the success the Devs have had since then)

Fortunately, I'd blocked out the Adam Graves goal. Thanks. No, really. THANKS.

That was the last time the Rangers won a playoff series before this year, and the Devils have won 2 Cups since.

[Vince]

You guys all picked great sports moments, and this one doesn't hold a candle to most of them, but I thought that Brett Favre's 4th (5th?) TD pass against the Raiders right after his dad died might have made it up there for Emotion.

Or maybe Derek Fisher not only taking the court late in the third quarter, but maybe one of his two great steals, or the dagger-in-the-heart three pointer against the Warriors this postseason after flying in from New York where his daughter had surgery earlier that day.

This was a great read though.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by digamma

I think Isiddiqui is technically right here. Williams didn't break a record. Hornsby's .424 is generally considered the record by those who don't recognize LaJoie. And, yes, each time McGwire homered he set a new single season record, just as Sergei Bubka set a new pole vault record each time he cleared another quarter inch. A record can be broken multiple times and you can break your own record.

Yes, technically that may be true. But I think most people would say that when it's a cumalitive record, you break it once and then keep adding to it. Bubka's records were for a single event so it's a bad comparison.

Put it this way: how many times would the average fan in a sports bar say Babe Ruth broke the single-season home run record? Would he say he broke it four times (in 1919, 1920, 1921 and then 1927)? Or did he break it 33 times, including 25 times in one season?

Maybe there's a semantic distinction between record-breaking (McGwire's 62nd) and record-setting (his 70th)?

Originally Posted by digamma

That said, I don't think your pick should be invalidated, but it will be interesting to see how the peanut gallery feels about it.

It wasn't even a pick, I just threw it out there as a kind of fun "here's a few we missed" post.

[Maple Leafs]

A few other observations (some of which are probably wrong):

- Adam Vinateri show's up twice for "clutch". Derek Jeter shows up zero times.

- There were two moments chosen from the Pats/Raiders playoff game, as well as two from game seven of the 2003 ALCS.

- Mariano Rivera was part of two moments even though he wasn't the hero of either

- The most recent moment taken was Jason McElwain's three pointers. The oldest was... not sure, Cy Young's 511th win?

- Muhammed Ali is on the list twice, as is Mike Tyson, but George Foreman is the only man mentioned three times

- Not mentioned in a moment: Mickey Mantle, Mario Lemieux, Barry Bonds, Bobby Orr, Magic Johnson, John Elway (although we was techincally part of the Stanford Band game), Jerry Rice, Tiger Woods, the Stanley Cup

- We covered cricket, pro wrestling and high school varsity basketball, but I don't think tennis was mentioned

[Lathum]

I thought of Jeter for the play he made against Oakland in the ALDS when he flipped it backhanded but my hate for the yankees kept me from it.

[Maple Leafs]

Another one that I'm surprised wasn't picked: the last play of the Rams/Titans super bowl.

[stevew]

Some moments I remember that weren't mentioned

Choke-World record holder in the Decathalon Dan O'Brien no heights on his final pole vault attempt at the 1992 olympic qualifiers, and doesn't make the team. Reebok is in shock as they had planned the multi-million dollar Dan vs Dave campaign for all summer, only to see it fall flat.

Speed-Don't remember the year, but the Time that Greg LeMond made up like 2 minutes in the final short stage of the Tour de France to beat some ugly foreign guy.

[stevew]

Here's one for Tennis

Drama-A crazed fan comes out of the stands and stabs Monica Seles, the current world #1.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Another one that I'm surprised wasn't picked: the last play of the Rams/Titans super bowl.

I was about to take that for Clutch, but went with Vinateri's snowstorm kick instead.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes, technically that may be true. But I think most people would say that when it's a cumalitive record, you break it once and then keep adding to it. Bubka's records were for a single event so it's a bad comparison.

Put it this way: how many times would the average fan in a sports bar say Babe Ruth broke the single-season home run record? Would he say he broke it four times (in 1919, 1920, 1921 and then 1927)? Or did he break it 33 times, including 25 times in one season?

Maybe there's a semantic distinction between record-breaking (McGwire's 62nd) and record-setting (his 70th)?

I'll grant you the comparison between something like the pole vault and a single season record isn't apples to apples, but neither is the no hitter record (to single season home runs). However, on the day McGwire hit his 68th home run, what would you have said the single season record for home runs was? Maybe it gets to your semantic distinction between breaking the record at 62, thus knowing we would end the season with a new record. Or perhaps the distinction is that you can't have a new single season record until the season is complete.

I think we agree the moment is clear--we remember 62 a hell of a lot more than we remember 70.

It wasn't even a pick, I just threw it out there as a kind of fun "here's a few we missed" post.

I should pay better attention.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

ISiddiqui does this every draft.

And I'll keep doing it until I get a "Face the Board"

I'm just naturally contrarian... it's a gift .

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes, technically that may be true. But I think most people would say that when it's a cumalitive record, you break it once and then keep adding to it.

As you said, technically you break a record every time you add on one to yours. It doesn't matter which one we "remember" more, but adding on to something is breaking the previous record, which may indeed have been held by yourself. The only difference in the record books (well, I guess it'd have to be digital record books, because no one is printing them out that fast ), really, between McGwire's 62nd HR and his 68th HR is who he passed in breaking the previous record.

And PLEASE tell me you were joking about Hornsby. Though if you were, I don't really see why... 1924 is clearly in the modern era and his batting average was clearly higher than Williams' in 1941.

[Johnny93g]

The Greatest sporting moment in Canadian history was not taken

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by digamma

I'll grant you the comparison between something like the pole vault and a single season record isn't apples to apples, but neither is the no hitter record (to single season home runs). However, on the day McGwire hit his 68th home run, what would you have said the single season record for home runs was?

Yes, but again I don't think most fans think of it this way.

Try this. Next time you're around a group of baseball fans, tell them "Hey, I was there the day Ripken broke the consecutive games record". When they say "really?", say "Yeah, July 6, 1997 against the Devil Rays, game 2,459". See if they nod their heads, or if they stare at you like you're an idiot.

[Northwood_DK]

This was a great read with some fantastic picks along the way. A few I missed from the list:

* The War Marvin Hagler vs. Thomas Hearns / Power/Drama

* Tigers Woods first win at Augusta winning by a record 12 strokes / Record-breaking

* The Maradona run from the middle of the field to score against England in the 1986 World Cup / Drama

* Jack Nicklaus Wins Masters at Age 46 / Emotion

* Marco van Basten's winning goal for Holland in Euro '88

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes, but again I don't think most fans think of it this way.

Try this. Next time you're around a group of baseball fans, tell them "Hey, I was there the day Ripken broke the consecutive games record". When they say "really?", say "Yeah, July 6, 1997 against the Devil Rays, game 2,459". See if they nod their heads, or if they stare at you like you're an idiot.

But didn't he technically break his own record that day? Who cares what others think?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But didn't he technically break his own record that day? Who cares what others think?

Part of what makes a record being broken something special is the consideration of who set it, how they set it, and how long it had been in tact. You can make a case that people were far more interested in the Mcgwire/Sosa chase of Roger Maris's 30+ year old record than they were of Barry Bonds breaking Mcgwire's record 3 years later.

When people think of Hank Aaron breaking the Home run record, the previous record of 714 had been set by one of baseball's all time greats 40 years prior. The home run that we've all seen the video of was #715. If you ask most people about Hank Aaron's 755th home run (the current record), most people won't be able to tell you much about it. Most people won't even be able to tell you what team Aaron hit his 755th for. Did every home run from 716 to 755 break a record? sure it did, but most people don't care about a record thats a day old and set by the same person. The legendary part of record breaking comes from taking a record from someone else.

I do however agree though that Ted Williams .406 isn't "record-breaking" since it did not break any record. It is just known as the last person who hit .400 in a season is all. I think the story about how he did hit .400 that year is pretty interesting. He could have sat out the last game of the season with a batting average that rounded up to .400 and not risk losing it that day. He didn't want to back into it however, and was going to go out swinging so to speak. That day he did just fine though and improved his batting average, which is one of the many things he did in his career that I admire as a baseball fan!

[Pumpy Tudors]

HOW WAS THIS NOT TAKEN???

Controversy - March 2, 2003. Dallas Desperados at Arizona Rattlers. Dallas kicker Jason Wells made a game-tying field goal from 34 yards out with 49 seconds remaining. The game went to overtime with the score 58-58.

AFL rules state that each team gets at least one possession in overtime. When Arizona won the coin toss, Rattlers coach Danny White (yes, that Danny White) elected to kick off. This is normal, just like an NCAA team electing to play defense to start overtime. Danny White had an idea, though. He had his kicker, Nelson Garner, attempt an onside kick. The Rattlers recovered and drove down the field for a touchdown. Danny White thought the game was over at this point. After all, he figured that Dallas' possession started when Arizona kicked off. In his mind, the Desperados failed to recover the onside kick, so it was essentially a turnover on their possession.

Danny White thought wrong.

The officials huddled for a couple of minutes and determined that Dallas had never officially had an overtime possession, so Arizona would have to attempt an extra point and kick off to Dallas. White was livid, but there was nothing he could do. Nelson Garner went back onto the field for Arizona and missed the extra point. Arizona 64, Dallas 58. Garner then kicked off to the Desperados so Dallas could have their possession.

The Desperados put together a 7-play, 48-yard drive that ended in a 10-yard touchdown pass from Jim Kubiak to Shannon Culver, tying the score at 64. Dallas kicker Jason Wells makes the extra point, and the Desperados win one of the most controversial games in AFL history. After the game, all Danny White could say was that he didn't know the overtime rules well enough and admits that his clever idea to circumvent the rules wasn't so clever after all.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

HOW WAS THIS NOT TAKEN???

If an AFL coach fucks up, and there's no one there to see it...is it really a controversy?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Logan

If an AFL coach fucks up, and there's no one there to see it...is it really a controversy?

I SAW IT!!!

(you're right)