MMA vs Boxing

[heybrad]

I searched for similar threads on this and they seem to deal more with the popularity of the two sports, but I saw the following Yahoo article and wondered what people thoughts were.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

Ultimate challenge for Mayweather?

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
April 18, 2007

Floyd Mayweather stands almost 5-foot-9, weighs 154 pounds, has a 72-inch reach and can drop most mortals with a single swing of either hand.

He's fast, athletic and dodges punches as well as anyone, maybe ever. In 13 world title fights, he won all 13. His next one is May 5 in Las Vegas, this time as a junior middleweight, against Oscar de la Hoya, as big a fight as boxing has seen in years.

His nickname may be "Pretty Boy," but he is one bad, bad man.

On Cinco de Mayo we'll find out if the heavily-favored Mayweather can beat de la Hoya – but could he beat a snarling, menacing, multi-skilled champion of the Ultimate Fighting Championship?

How about lightweight (155 pound) champ Sean Sherk, who may stand just 5-foot-6, may suffer from a distinct reach disadvantage, but as a mixed martial arts master is schooled in "interdisciplinary forms of fighting that include jiu-jitsu, judo, karate, boxing, kickboxing, wrestling."

Could the best pound-for-pound fighter in the old combat sport (boxing) handle a champion in the new combat sport (UFC)?

"UFC's champions can't handle boxing. That's why they are in UFC." Mayweather said Tuesday from Las Vegas during a break in training. "Put one of our guys in UFC and he'd be the champion. Any good fighter, he'd straight knock them out."

Dana White, a one-time boxer and boxing instructor and current UFC president, laughs at that.

"Boxers couldn't become mixed martial artists. That's why they're boxers," White countered Wednesday from England where UFC has an event Saturday. "They are one trick ponies. Our guys can do everything. They can box, they can kick box, they can wrestle and do jiu-jitsu. They are much better athletes than boxers."

Mayweather may be right, but he'd have to be. Any boxer stepping into the UFC octagon would have to knock his opponent out before the mixed martial artist got a hold of him, because once the fight fell to the mat, where things get nasty, the boxer is all but finished.

But, as Mayweather points out, the often (by boxing standards) clumsy and lead-with-their-face UFC guys would have to walk through a hail of vicious jabs, crosses and hooks to get there.

"Take Chuck Liddell," Mayweather said of the UFC's biggest star and light heavyweight champion (about 205 pounds). "Put him in the ring with a (boxer) who is just 10-0 and Chuck Liddell would get punished."

So you'd punish a UFC champion, too?

"Come on, man. What'd you think? Am I just 10-0?"

Mayweather is 37-0.

Liddell, with six inches and 50 pounds on Mayweather, isn't possible, but someone like Sherk, someone his size? With that insane reach, unreal punching power and by UFC rules aided by small, light 4-ounce gloves would Mayweather carve up Sherk instantly? Or would Sherk fight throughout the barrage and get Mayweather in a clutch no ref will save him from?

"They wouldn't have a chance to grapple (us) because we'd knock them out," Mayweather said in general. "(The fighter) would be knocked out before he even touched us."

Of course, perhaps no punch is strong enough to stop a charging opponent.

No one really knows what would happen at such an elite level.

"I used to talk like Floyd Mayweather when I was involved in boxing," White said. "I talked just like him, until I educated myself about this sport. These guys are amazing athletes, Floyd Mayweather is one of the best boxers ever, (and) Sean Sherk will whoop his ass in under two minutes."

"Any day that Mayweather wants to put his money and his ass where his mouth is, I'm ready," White continued. "If he wants to step up, let's do it."

First off, Mayweather was talking mostly in general about his disdain for UFC – "Boxing is an art, UFC is a fad." But Mayweather has spent almost as much time this spring ripping UFC as de la Hoya, who he seems to consider as little more than a matinee idol useful for only increasing the purse.

"I never knew popularity to win any fight," Mayweather said. "I'll beat him and come home and watch basketball."

The UFC, though, is clearly on his mind. He brought it up on his own Tuesday. Earlier this month he cracked that "anyone can put a tattoo on their head and get in a street fight."

Mayweather may be a talker – loquacious doesn't begin to describe the 30-year-old – but he isn't dumb. So maybe he is setting up another big pay day in the event he dusts de la Hoya and boxing has little to offer. Or maybe he just wants to promote a fight involving others.

Of course, the economics of UFC would have to change to get Mayweather to participate. UFC fighters make a fraction of top boxers. As part of the family business, Mayweather, his dad and his uncle handle all aspects of his career. For the de la Hoya fight he'll earn millions.

"Why would I go into a sport paying hundreds of thousands when I'm in a sport paying $20 million?" Mayweather said.

Mayweather knows full well, though, that the pay per view money is there for the taking on something like this, a battle that would be intriguing at nearly every level. White would just about kill for this to go down, preferably with Mayweather involved as a fighter.

"I'm willing to put together a fight for Sean Sherk and Floyd Mayweather with numbers that would make sense for Floyd," White said. "And I guarantee you he would not accept it. Floyd Mayweather would never fight in the UFC because he would get his head ripped off."

Yes, he would. But only if Sherk didn't get his head ripped off first.



Does anybody really believe that a top boxer could defeat a top MMA fighter? I think Dana White is right in saying that a boxer would never take a fight like this even if the money was right as it could potentially kill the credibility of boxing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by heybrad

... it could potentially kill the credibility of boxing.

Wouldn't that be beating a dead horse?

Mayweather is talking out of his ass. It makes okay copy for the boxing press but if he really believes what he's saying, seems to me that the doctors for the licensing board need to take a close look at how much brain damage he's suffered.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Does anybody really believe that a top boxer could defeat a top MMA fighter?

In an MMA fight, no. In a boxing match, easily.

All Mayweather is doing is hyping up his fight with de la Hoya to increase PPV buys which directly increases the money he makes. Nothing more, nothing less.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by sabotai

In an MMA fight, no. In a boxing match, easily.

But that's not what Mayweather is saying. He says you could take any boxer and put him in the UFC and he'd dominate.

I agree with you that if they stick to one discipline, a world class fighter would win. Isn't the point that MMA fighters are so much more well rounded that a boxer wouldn't stand a chance in an MMA fight.

[Travis]

I love how he just dismisses the MMA guys. I'd love to see his defensive approach once he has to worry about leg kicks, takedowns, and not just his opponents left and right hands. If only they could get him into the octagon with a guy like Coutoure, he'd have such a lesson in humility waiting for him.

[Bee]

Aren't there already guys who do the MMA that are almost exclusively "strikers"? I've seen a few MMA matches where one of the guys knew basic ground moves, but mostly were stand up fighters. I think one of them was actually one of the champions.

[JeffNights]

I train MMA, you wont ever see me in the UFC but I know enough to know that Sean Sherk will DESTROY the "pretty boy" in under two minutes like Dana says.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Bee

Aren't there already guys who do the MMA that are almost exclusively "strikers"? I've seen a few MMA matches where one of the guys knew basic ground moves, but mostly were stand up fighters. I think one of them was actually one of the champions.

Guessing you saw Chuck Liddell. Even at that though, if you want to be a striker in the UFC, your takedown defense has to be perfect or you'll be on your back unconscious or tapping out in short order. That and I'd hate to even guess how many of the strikes he throws would be illegal in a boxing match.

[Neuqua]

I agree that Mayweather is just trying to cash in a few extra bucks by extending his name to the UFC brand which is the hottest thing going at the moment.

[Deattribution]

Nobody should kid themselves though - Mayweather/De La Hoya will considerably outsell the biggest UFC ppv they've had, and double the sales of some of their other shows.

When boxing has a big fight, it's still a big deal but the problem is they only have these kind of fights once every two or three years.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by heybrad

But that's not what Mayweather is saying. He says you could take any boxer and put him in the UFC and he'd dominate.

Mayweather says lots of things. No one takes him seriously.

Isn't the point that MMA fighters are so much more well rounded that a boxer wouldn't stand a chance in an MMA fight.

My point is that boxers don't train for or compete in MMA rules, so why would they be able to stand a chance in an MMA fight? Conversely, MMA fighters don't train for boxing rules, so why would they stand a chance in a boxing match?

I hear this a lot. "Stick a boxer in the octogon and he'd get destroyed." "Put one of those MMA guys in a boxing ring and he'd get his ass kicked." It's really not a fair or honest comparison.

[bigdawg2003]

It seems similar to someone arguing someone like Roger Federer would beat Tiger Woods in tennis, but Woods would beat Federer in golf. DUH!

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2003

It seems similar to someone arguing someone like Roger Federer would beat Tiger Woods in tennis, but Woods would beat Federer in golf. DUH!

I think a closer comparison would be like criticizing Roger Federer for not being able to beat Joo Se Hyuk in a game of ping pong.

[Edward64]

I do not believe the comparison between Woods and Federer, Golf vs Tennis is valid in this discussion.

The UFC has been about all types of unarmed fighting. Dana is not saying the UFC fighter can beat a boxer in boxing. I think he is just saying (and throwing down the gauntlet) ...

In an unarmed fight, regardless of rules and art, who would win?

At the elite levels, there is a pretty good chance that a MMA will take out a boxer.

[Crim]

Okay, I've got this figured out. Check it out:

We can all agree that Superman would beat the hell outta Chuck Lidell, right?
Well, I seem to remember that in the 70s there was a comic wherein Muhammed Ali fought Superman to a draw, or something. Therefore, boxers>MMA fighters.

Someone might want to check my math, but I think I got it right.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Crim

We can all agree that Superman would beat the hell outta Chuck Lidell, right?
Well, I seem to remember that in the 70s there was a comic wherein Muhammed Ali fought Superman to a draw, or something. Therefore, boxers>MMA fighters.

And there you have it. End of discussion.

[Travis]

Actually, this isn't MMA fans saying that a UFC fighter could kick a boxers ass in a MMA fight, this was a boxer saying he could kick a UFC fighter's ass in a MMA match, that's where the objection comes from.

I would love to see him get a 3-4 match contract and see just how many TKO's he ends up with.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Crim

Okay, I've got this figured out. Check it out:

We can all agree that Superman would beat the hell outta Chuck Lidell, right?
Well, I seem to remember that in the 70s there was a comic wherein Muhammed Ali fought Superman to a draw, or something. Therefore, boxers>MMA fighters.

Someone might want to check my math, but I think I got it right.

Originally Posted by sabotai

And there you have it. End of discussion.

Actually you forgot to factor Chuck Norris into this equation......MMA Fighter>Boxers and Superman.....

Now end of discussion.

[JeffNights]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Nobody should kid themselves though - Mayweather/De La Hoya will considerably outsell the biggest UFC ppv they've had, and double the sales of some of their other shows.

When boxing has a big fight, it's still a big deal but the problem is they only have these kind of fights once every two or three years.

Care to back this statement up with anything?

The last ten UFC PPV's have a buy rate of 500,000, and ortiz-liddell two did over 900,000.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Care to back this statement up with anything?

The last ten UFC PPV's have a buy rate of 500,000, and ortiz-liddell two did over 900,000.

De La Hoya vs. Mayorga drew 925,000.

[Deattribution]

De La Hoya vs Mayorga which was Oscar's last fight, coming off a knockout loss none the less at the time did 875,000 buys, he's probably the biggest draw left in boxing, Mayweather - De La Hoya will do atleast a million, probably 1.2 mill. since Mayweather is considered the best, and De La Hoya is considered the most popular.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by sabotai

De La Hoya vs. Mayorga drew 925,000.

This is a whole diff story, the single article I read was 875, yours is 925 - PPV buys aren't an exact science it seems especially for privately held companies (ala UFC).

[Deattribution]

Triple dola here, and I don't dispute UFC's success at all as they're clearly the premiere sport now but I have a hard time believing they're doing the mil range in PPV buys (with some reports saying they've crossed it) and only paying their main fighter about 1.5 (with ppv bonus) for the fights. In total, before PPV bonuses their pay-outs tend to come up to about 400k for all their fighters, and around 3-5 million in total after PPV bonuses. That's insane profit since a mil buys is in the 40+ million dollar range, not mentioning they usually make 3 mil off the gate alone.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

This is a whole diff story, the single article I read was 875, yours is 925 - PPV buys aren't an exact science it seems especially for privately held companies (ala UFC).

No, it's not. You'll usually find a reasonable range, though. One of the problems is that each cable/satellite company has to report their numbers, and they don't all report them at the same time or right away. That's why you'll see articles say "This event drew ###,### PPV buys, but that number is expected to rise as other providers report their numbers."

Interesting enough, I got my number from MMAWeekly.com
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...=3520&zoneid=3

[Neon_Chaos]

Boxers make more money than MMA fighters.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Care to back this statement up with anything?

The last ten UFC PPV's have a buy rate of 500,000, and ortiz-liddell two did over 900,000.

To follow this up, the Mayweather-De La Hoya fight is now being reported as the biggest PPV in history (surpassing Tyson-Holyfield), and the most revenue for a single PPV (surpassing Lewis-Tyson). Estimating 2.15 million buys currently with it likely to pass 2.2 million and PPV revenue of 120 million.

[Karlifornia]

Who would win between a Lion and a Great White Shark?


That's basically the equivalent of this discussion. The fight couldn't happen fairly, and would never happen.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Crim

Okay, I've got this figured out. Check it out:

We can all agree that Superman would beat the hell outta Chuck Lidell, right?
Well, I seem to remember that in the 70s there was a comic wherein Muhammed Ali fought Superman to a draw, or something. Therefore, boxers>MMA fighters.

Someone might want to check my math, but I think I got it right.

I think you are remembering it wrong, Ali BEAT Superman, but it was a Superman fighting beneath a red sun so he had no powers. So saying Ali could draw or beat a normal yellow sun superman is actually very similiar to the rest of this thread.

And aw man, do I feel like a major geek that I actually remember the plot from a comic book made before I was born.

[14ers]

I wouldn't cross the street to watch a UFC event!!


I watched their supposed fight of the century with Randy “The Natural” Couture coming back out of retirement at 42 years old recently.

Every round was exactly the same. 30 seconds of actaul fighting and then 4 minutes and 30 seconds of Gay Porn. Just 2 guys laying on the canvas giving it to each other missionary style or butt f*cking each other. That is not what I call fighting, and definitely not something I would want to pay to see.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I wouldn't cross the street to watch a UFC event!!


I watched their supposed fight of the century with Randy “The Natural” Couture coming back out of retirement at 42 years old recently.

Every round was exactly the same. 30 seconds of actaul fighting and then 4 minutes and 30 seconds of Gay Porn. Just 2 guys laying on the canvas giving it to each other missionary style or butt f*cking each other. That is not what I call fighting, and definitely not something I would want to pay to see.

Tim Sylvia is NOT the guy to base what MMA is off of, Couture dominated that fight but Sylvia is notorious for just trying to do what he needs to win, no matter how boring it is.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Tim Sylvia is NOT the guy to base what MMA is off of, Couture dominated that fight but Sylvia is notorious for just trying to do what he needs to win, no matter how boring it is.

If that was the fight I was watching; then why did they let the 2 guys just lie there on the canvas together? Do they have any rules about this kind of stall? Do they ever make the guys get back on their feet and start over from a standing position?


It was just boring as hell for me to watch. 5 minute rounds of 30 seconds of good fighting and then 4:30 of nothing.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Every round was exactly the same. 30 seconds of actaul fighting and then 4 minutes and 30 seconds of Gay Porn.

LOL. Funny stuff.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2003

It seems similar to someone arguing someone like Roger Federer would beat Tiger Woods in tennis, but Woods would beat Federer in golf. DUH!

Not really because those are totally different sports. I think it is closer to Roger Federer taking on the world's best table tennis player. They are both form's of tennis but hugely different. Same as the difference between boxing and mma.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I wouldn't cross the street to watch a UFC event!!


I watched their supposed fight of the century with Randy “The Natural” Couture coming back out of retirement at 42 years old recently.

Every round was exactly the same. 30 seconds of actaul fighting and then 4 minutes and 30 seconds of Gay Porn. Just 2 guys laying on the canvas giving it to each other missionary style or butt f*cking each other. That is not what I call fighting, and definitely not something I would want to pay to see.

Ok, we'll get you into an octagon and into the "gay porn" position and let someone rain blows down on your head with elbows and then try to snap your arm off with an armbar or choke you out and we can see if it is not fighting. You obviously didn't want to like it to begin with.

edit: Yes the good referees will stand the fighters up if there is no real effort by either man to make attempts at offense while on the ground. You should go to Youtube and do some searches on UFC or Pride and watch some of the fights on there to get a better idea of what it is all about.

[Calis]

Heh, no way was Sylvia vs. Couture labeled as fight of the century, and I don't really recall anyone saying that it was. The value of the fight was everyone hating Tim Sylvia so much, but not expecting Couture to have it in him to beat him anymore. It was a terrible fight overall, but anyone who had followed MMA for long enjoyed it because Sylvia got manhandled, and it was Randy Couture.

If you want to see some high-paced action, get ready for Pride's Lightweight Grand Prix that should be coming sometime here soon. The little guys know how to push the pace the entire fight, and there's going to be some great fighters involved in that one. It should be very good.

I also think Rampage vs. Liddell will be a very good fight, or at least I hope it is. Most excited I've been about a fight for a while, hoping Rampage can pull off a repeat performance and get back on his game.

There's always stinkers, and I think in general the UFC has more stinkers than winners, and that card was pretty bad.

[heybrad]

16 more days until I'm at the MGM Grand watching Liddell vs Jackson.

WOOT!

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I wouldn't cross the street to watch a UFC event!!


I watched their supposed fight of the century with Randy “The Natural” Couture coming back out of retirement at 42 years old recently.

Every round was exactly the same. 30 seconds of actaul fighting and then 4 minutes and 30 seconds of Gay Porn. Just 2 guys laying on the canvas giving it to each other missionary style or butt f*cking each other. That is not what I call fighting, and definitely not something I would want to pay to see.

lol. this deserves some kind of award. summed it up perfectly.

[Hammer]

I always had a passing interest in boxing, but around 3 years ago I really caught the MMA bug. Its easy for those who don't understand whats going on to ridicule the sport, but once they actually understand whats going on they usually come around.

The boxing versus MMA debate came around simply through those being associated with boxing realising just what a threat MMA is to their sport. Its growing unbelievably quickly, not just in the U.S. but accross Europe and all accross the world. I think both sports can survive together though.

A problem I perceive boxers to have is that they are no longer looked up to and respected as fighters. I certainly respect what they accomplish, in terms of skill, stamina and dedication - but certainly not in their ability to "fight" as such.

I've spent time training under Leigh Remidios who is pretty much the best MMA fighter at his weight in the U.K. He has fought in the UFC but has never quite broke on to the world stage. He fights around the 145lbs mark. I've seen him dominate your 240 lbs amateur boxer doorman types with such ease, just through sheer technique. To put Sherk against Mayweather in a hand to hand combat situation is laughable.

World class strikers, boxers, K1 or whatever simply have very little chance against a trained grappler in a 1 on 1 combat situation. Its been the case year on year now in MMA competition.

It seems boxers struggle to adapt to 4oz gloves, their instinct to cover up seems to work against them as there is so little leather to hide behind. If you want to see a decent matchup I'd say use 4oz golves, striking only and pit an MMA guy against a boxer that way.