Mt. Rushmore of Non-Presidential Politicians

JPhillips · 01-25-2007, 05:00 PM

I was talking about the great politicians of the past fifty years and I thought thi would be a good topic for a Mt. Rushmore. Simple rules, only elected office holders that haven't been president. Let's limit it to 1950 to present. American's only.

Sam Ervin
Barry Goldwater
Tip O'Neill
Newt Gingrich

Passacaglia · 01-25-2007, 05:32 PM

Off the top of my head...

Bobby Kennedy
Henry Kissinger
Ross Perot
Adlai Stevenson

Passacaglia · 01-25-2007, 05:32 PM

doh, elected officers -- that kills what, maybe all of mine?

beargrowlz · 01-25-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

doh, elected officers -- that kills what, maybe all of mine?

Nah, Bobby Kennedy was elected US Senator from New York and Adlai Stevenson was Govervor of Illinois.

I'd add Edward Kennedy to the list. Love him or hate him he was extremely effective at getting legislation passed and even building cross aisle alliances (such as with Republicans in the 70's and 80's over CETA).

Franklinnoble · 01-25-2007, 05:55 PM

Goldwater
Guliani
Schwarzenegger
Eastwood

Tigercat · 01-25-2007, 06:03 PM

post 1950s kills all my ideas. All the best non-presidential politicians were in the first half of the century.

Senator · 01-25-2007, 07:38 PM

Sam Rayburn
Barbara Jordan
Richard Russell
Everett Dirksen

JonInMiddleGA · 01-25-2007, 07:52 PM

Newt Gingrich
Jesse Ventura
Richard Russell
Sam Rayburn

cartman · 01-25-2007, 08:16 PM

Here are mine. I'm ignoring the post-1950s rule, because it couldn't be considered a Mt. Rushmore without my first two choices.

Henry Clay
William Jennings Bryan
Sam Rayburn
Barbara Jordan

Barkeep49 · 01-25-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigercat

post 1950s kills all my ideas. All the best non-presidential politicians were in the first half of the century.

I'm ignoring the 1950s rule as well.

Henry Clay
William Jennings Bryan
Alexander Hamilton

I struggle with the fourth. I have a real hard time putitng up Russell or Rayburn because of their racism. So I guess I'd have to go with

Everett Dirksen

I would really like to consider Martin Van Buren and Lyndon Johnson for their non-presidential contributions, but alas that is not to be.

Tigercat · 01-25-2007, 08:37 PM

Since the rule was ignored before me, I will go:

Sam Rayburn
Joseph Cannon
Eugene Debs
Huey Long

(Put Debs and Long instead of Bryan, since Cartman already used him and I had five names in mind anyway.)

Barkeep49 · 01-25-2007, 08:42 PM

Huey Long. There's a good name. Hmm. I like Eugene Debbs too. I really like Huey though. Acomplishes much of what I would want to say with Van Buren.

JPhillips · 01-25-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

I'm ignoring the post-1950s rule

Don't make me delete the thread!

:o

bulletsponge · 01-25-2007, 10:39 PM

Alexander Hamilton

he should be on the real Mt Rushmore

KevinNU7 · 01-25-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I struggle with the fourth. I have a real hard time putitng up Russell or Rayburn because of their racism. So I guess I'd have to go with

They didn't seem to have a problem with that on the actual Mt. Rushmore

Barkeep49 · 01-25-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

They didn't seem to have a problem with that on the actual Mt. Rushmore

I am not familiar with the moral struggles of Rayburn and Russell, ESPECIALLY Russell, with segregation, in the way way that we have Washington and Jefferson struggle.

Franklinnoble · 01-25-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Jesse Ventura

Man! I wish I'd thought of that one...

Here's my revised Mt Rushmore:

Schwarzenegger
Eastwood
Ventura
Largent

Or, I could do a football theme:

Largent
Shuler
Swann
?

st.cronin · 01-25-2007, 11:42 PM

What criteria are people using?

stevew · 01-25-2007, 11:50 PM

Bob Dole
Tip O'Neil
Newt Gingrich
Ross Perot

JonInMiddleGA · 01-25-2007, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Or, I could do a football theme:
Largent
Shuler
Swann
?

J.C. Watts?

stevew · 01-26-2007, 12:04 AM

Jack Kemp?

sooner333 · 01-26-2007, 12:14 AM

Tom Osborne?

Barkeep49 · 01-26-2007, 12:33 AM

Jack Kemp would have to go on the football politician Rushmore. No doubt. I'd also put Watts above Swann.

sooner333 · 01-26-2007, 12:51 AM

What has Swann won other than the Republican nomination for governor?

ISiddiqui · 01-26-2007, 07:39 AM

Ignoring the 1950 rule as well:

Alexander Hamilton
Henry Clay
John C. Calhoun (while not that much a fan, he was incredibly influential)
William Jennings Bryan (same as Calhoun)

edit: If I had another space either Aaron Burr or Barry Goldwater would have fallen in there.

Barkeep49 · 01-26-2007, 09:11 AM

Aaron Burr? How does Aaron Burr rate?

Axxon · 01-26-2007, 09:16 AM

Dick Greco
Bobby Kennedy
Sam Gibbons
Strom Thurmond

Axxon · 01-26-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Aaron Burr? How does Aaron Burr rate?

Really. Raymond would be a much better choice.

ISiddiqui · 01-26-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Aaron Burr? How does Aaron Burr rate?

How does he not? He had his hand in politics of all sorts during the early years of the Republic. He basically created the Tammany Hall machine in New York City. He is known as the father of modern political campaigning for how he outmanuvered Hamilton in his own hometown in NYC.

He's also responsible for many traditions as President of the Senate (as he was for being Vice President for Thomas Jefferson).

His abilities to play both sides of the Federalist/Democratic-Republican divide in early American politics was brilliant. Being able to, in the same campaign, get funds for Jefferson's run as President while being able to pick his own slate of Federalist electors for NY state (due to Tammany).

Barkeep49 · 01-26-2007, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How does he not? He had his hand in politics of all sorts during the early years of the Republic. He basically created the Tammany Hall machine in New York City. He is known as the father of modern political campaigning for how he outmanuvered Hamilton in his own hometown in NYC.

He's also responsible for many traditions as President of the Senate (as he was for being Vice President for Thomas Jefferson).

His abilities to play both sides of the Federalist/Democratic-Republican divide in early American politics was brilliant. Being able to, in the same campaign, get funds for Jefferson's run as President while being able to pick his own slate of Federalist electors for NY state (due to Tammany).

I think you over state his influence on modern political campaigning. And let's be honest: What traditions of the President of the Senate? I think John Adams, as the first VP, had far more influence there anyway. People didn't like Adams and so they made the role ceremonial.

More importantly, the guy was a complete and total megalomaniac. I mean he nearly screwed Jefferson out of the Presidency, he committed treason while on the run from the fallout of shooting Hamilton (which I don't hold against him much). Whatever you do want to give him credit for should be offset by these demerits.

ISiddiqui · 01-26-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think you over state his influence on modern political campaigning. And let's be honest: What traditions of the President of the Senate? I think John Adams, as the first VP, had far more influence there anyway. People didn't like Adams and so they made the role ceremonial.

He created Tammany for heaven's sake! If that isn't a huge influence on political campaigning, I don't know what is.

As opposed to Adams, Burr backed away from politicing in the Senate as VP. Adams was very active as President of the Senate and not just because he had so many tie breaking votes to cast. He engaged in Senate debate a few times and harranged the Senate on procedure and policy. Burr took a more hands off view of the office and just cast tie breaking votes and left the procedure and policy to the Senate. That model has been followed ever since.

Adams acted more like another Senator, while Burr acted more like an judge attempting to remain impartial. He was praised by those on both sides for how he ran the post.

Quote:

More importantly, the guy was a complete and total megalomaniac. I mean he nearly screwed Jefferson out of the Presidency, he committed treason while on the run from the fallout of shooting Hamilton (which I don't hold against him much). Whatever you do want to give him credit for should be offset by these demerits.

So? Wow, he was a megalomaniac. Big deal. So was Teddy Roosevelt. Doesn't matter all that much to me.

ISiddiqui · 01-26-2007, 10:01 AM

As for 'nearly screwed Jefferson out of the Presidency', from wiki:

Quote:

It was well understood that the party intended that Jefferson should be President and Burr Vice President but the responsibility for the final choice was that of the House of Representatives. The attempts of a powerful faction among the Federalists to secure the election of Burr failed, partly because of the opposition of Alexander Hamilton and partly because Burr himself did little to obtain votes in his own favor. He wrote to Jefferson underscoring his promise to be Vice-President, and during the voting stalemate in the Congress wrote again that he would give it up entirely if Jefferson so demanded. Ultimately, the election devolved to the point where it took thirty-six ballots before James A. Bayard, a Delaware Federalist, submitted a blank vote. Federalist abstentions in the Vermont and Maryland delegations led to Jefferson's election as President, and Burr’s moderate Federalist supporters conceded his defeat.

Passacaglia · 01-26-2007, 10:02 AM

Ignoring the 1950 rule works for me.

John C. Calhoun
Henry Clay
Alexander Hamilton
Daniel Webster

ISiddiqui · 01-26-2007, 10:08 AM

Continuing on Burr with respect to treason:

Quote:

Burr's secret correspondence with Anthony Merry and the Marquis of Casa Yrujo, the British and Spanish ministers at Washington, was eventually revealed. It had been, it would seem, to secure money and to conceal his real designs, which were probably to overthrow Spanish power in the Southwest, and perhaps to found a dynasty in what would have become former Mexican territory. This seems to have been a misdemeanor, based on the Neutrality Act passed to block filibuster expeditions like those questionable enterprises of George Rogers Clark and William Blount. But Jefferson sought the highest charges against Burr, even though his informant, Wilkinson, was notoriously corrupt. It seems that both Jefferson and Burr gravely misjudged Wilkinson's character - Jefferson had personally put him in charge of the Army at New Orleans.

In 1807, on a charge of treason, Burr was brought to trial before the United States Circuit Court at Richmond, Virginia. His defense lawyers were John Wickham and Luther Martin. Burr was arraigned four times for treason before a grand jury indicted him. This is surprising, because the only physical evidence presented to the Grand Jury was Wilkinson's so-called letter from Burr, proposing stealing land in the Louisiana Purchase. During the Jury's examination it was discovered that the letter was in Wilkinson's own handwriting - a "copy," he said, because he had "lost" the original. The Grand Jury threw the letter out, and the news made a laughingstock of the General for the rest of the proceedings. The trial, presided over by Chief Justice of the United States John Marshall, began on August 3.

Article 3, Section 3 of the United States Constitution requires that treason either be admitted in open court, or proved by an overt act witnessed by two people. Since no two witnesses came forward, Burr was acquitted on September 1, in spite of the fact that the full force of the political influence of the Jefferson administration had been thrown against him. Immediately afterward, he was tried on a more appropriate misdemeanor charge, but was again acquitted on a technicality.

Passacaglia · 01-26-2007, 10:35 AM

I hear he also drank a lot of milk.

Tigercat · 01-26-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Ignoring the 1950 rule works for me.

John C. Calhoun
Henry Clay
Alexander Hamilton
Daniel Webster

My 1800s list is exactly the same as yours here.

clintl · 01-26-2007, 04:18 PM

I'm surprised no one has put Nelson Rockefeller on their list, considering moderate Northeastern Republicans are still often referred to as Rockefeller Republicans.

Franklinnoble · 01-26-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I hear he also drank a lot of milk.

Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking this...

01-25-2007, 07:38 PM	#7
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	Sam Rayburn Barbara Jordan Richard Russell Everett Dirksen __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

01-25-2007, 07:52 PM	#8
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Newt Gingrich Jesse Ventura Richard Russell Sam Rayburn __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

01-25-2007, 08:16 PM	#9
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Here are mine. I'm ignoring the post-1950s rule, because it couldn't be considered a Mt. Rushmore without my first two choices. Henry Clay William Jennings Bryan Sam Rayburn Barbara Jordan __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

01-25-2007, 11:42 PM	#18
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	What criteria are people using? __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

01-26-2007, 07:39 AM	#25
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Ignoring the 1950 rule as well: Alexander Hamilton Henry Clay John C. Calhoun (while not that much a fan, he was incredibly influential) William Jennings Bryan (same as Calhoun) edit: If I had another space either Aaron Burr or Barry Goldwater would have fallen in there. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 01-26-2007 at 07:44 AM.

01-25-2007, 05:32 PM	#2
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Off the top of my head... Bobby Kennedy Henry Kissinger Ross Perot Adlai Stevenson

01-25-2007, 05:55 PM	#5
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Goldwater Guliani Schwarzenegger Eastwood

01-25-2007, 06:03 PM	#6
Tigercat College Starter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Federal Way, WA	post 1950s kills all my ideas. All the best non-presidential politicians were in the first half of the century.

01-25-2007, 08:37 PM	#11
Tigercat College Starter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Federal Way, WA	Since the rule was ignored before me, I will go: Sam Rayburn Joseph Cannon Eugene Debs Huey Long (Put Debs and Long instead of Bryan, since Cartman already used him and I had five names in mind anyway.)

01-25-2007, 08:42 PM	#12
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Huey Long. There's a good name. Hmm. I like Eugene Debbs too. I really like Huey though. Acomplishes much of what I would want to say with Van Buren.

01-25-2007, 10:39 PM	#14
bulletsponge Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TX	Alexander Hamilton he should be on the real Mt Rushmore

01-25-2007, 11:50 PM	#19
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Bob Dole Tip O'Neil Newt Gingrich Ross Perot

01-26-2007, 12:04 AM	#21
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Jack Kemp?

01-26-2007, 12:14 AM	#22
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	Tom Osborne?

01-26-2007, 12:33 AM	#23
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Jack Kemp would have to go on the football politician Rushmore. No doubt. I'd also put Watts above Swann.

01-26-2007, 12:51 AM	#24
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	What has Swann won other than the Republican nomination for governor?

01-26-2007, 09:11 AM	#26
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Aaron Burr? How does Aaron Burr rate?

01-26-2007, 09:16 AM	#27
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Dick Greco Bobby Kennedy Sam Gibbons Strom Thurmond __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

01-26-2007, 10:02 AM	#33
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Ignoring the 1950 rule works for me. John C. Calhoun Henry Clay Alexander Hamilton Daniel Webster

01-26-2007, 10:35 AM	#35
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I hear he also drank a lot of milk.

01-26-2007, 04:18 PM	#37
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	I'm surprised no one has put Nelson Rockefeller on their list, considering moderate Northeastern Republicans are still often referred to as Rockefeller Republicans.

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