No Jeter, you can't have the AL MVP. Not yours.

[cartman]

hxxp://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061121&content_id=1744779&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Morneau upsets field in AL MVP race
Twins first baseman tops Jeter, Mauer and Santana

MINNEAPOLIS -- Justin Morneau had some stiff competition when it came to earning American League Most Valuable Player honors, and that was just on his team.

But while the Twins had multiple candidates for the league's award, Morneau came out on top Tuesday as he was announced as this year's American League MVP.

Despite many people expecting Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter to win the award, Morneau's breakout season earned him the honor bestowed by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

[ISiddiqui]

Though, to be fair, Jeter deserved the award.

[John Galt]

Morneau is a pretty bad choice. He was the 3rd best MVP candidate on his own team. Oh well.

[bulletsponge]

Jeter= Overrated

[bbor]

Go Canada

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just barely follow the American League, and when I started reading the article, I got Justin Morneau mixed up in my mind with Travis Hafner. I was wondering why the hell a Cleveland Indian won MVP this year.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Morneau is a pretty bad choice. He was the 3rd best MVP candidate on his own team. Oh well.

Depending on one's philosophy about pitchers-as-MVP you could say 2nd, but not 3rd -- Morneau in my opinion (and I did watch the Twins every day) had pretty far surpassed Mauer down the stretch. Joe was really fatiguing and slowing up in August and September. Nothing against him, he's terrific too, but I do believe the team consensus was that Morneau was its MVP.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

Go Canada

Masters, Indy 500, NBA MVP, AL MVP, NL MVP, Cy Young... Pretty much only the NFL MVP left to win.

Where are you, OJ Santiago?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Masters, Indy 500, NBA MVP, AL MVP, NL MVP, Cy Young... Pretty much only the NFL MVP left to win.

I guess that's all to make up for teams from the American South winning the majority of the recent Stanley Cups...

[spleen1015]

This makes perfect sense to me.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Depending on one's philosophy about pitchers-as-MVP you could say 2nd, but not 3rd -- Morneau in my opinion (and I did watch the Twins every day) had pretty far surpassed Mauer down the stretch. Joe was really fatiguing and slowing up in August and September. Nothing against him, he's terrific too, but I do believe the team consensus was that Morneau was its MVP.

Joe Mauer from September 1st to the end of the season: .337/.439/.517 (BA/OBP/SLG). I'd hate to see what he's like when he's rested.

Morneau hit just as well down the stretch, and a bit better for the season, but he's a first baseman. If I've got a choice between one of the best defensive catchers in baseball and a first baseman, and the offence is anywhere close to even, I'll take the catcher.

[Toddzilla]

[Toddzilla]

Dola - yes, I know that is the WS MVP Trophy. I couldn't find a pic of the league MVP trophy. Meh.

[Schmidty]

What a joke. Jeter totally deserved the award.

It's ridiculous.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Katon

Joe Mauer from September 1st to the end of the season: .337/.439/.517 (BA/OBP/SLG). I'd hate to see what he's like when he's rested.

Well, I guess pushing .400, where he was before tailing off in the later months. Looking at his numbers, granted a better September than I gave him credit for, though still under his season average and coupled with a subpar July and August. He really did tail off, just a bit (again, I'm not criticizing, the guy's great). Really that Twins team was chock full of award worthy candidates this year. Too bad they turned into the Cubs for the postseason.

[Hammer755]

Horrible selection. Just horrible. Morneau would have finished around 10th on my ballot.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Horrible selection. Just horrible. Morneau would have finished around 10th on my ballot.

Would that put him ahead of or behind Travis Hafner? I'm just curious.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Horrible selection. Just horrible. Morneau would have finished around 10th on my ballot.

""".
Mauer, Santana, Jeter would all have been more justifiable, even by the absurdist playoff criteria. Hell, Carlos Guillen was a better player than Morneau.

[Warhammer]

I blame A-Rod for Jeter not winning this.

[JS19]

I think it's a good choice. You take Jeter off the Yankees and they are probably still gonna win the East and make the playoffs. Take Morneau off the Twins and it's probably a whole different team. About time they decided to give the award to the player who is MOST VALUABLE.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JS19

I think it's a good choice. You take Jeter off the Yankees and they are probably still gonna win the East and make the playoffs. Take Morneau off the Twins and it's probably a whole different team. About time they decided to give the award to the player who is MOST VALUABLE.

This is sarcasm, right? He wasn't even the best player on his OWN TEAM!

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Would that put him ahead of or behind Travis Hafner? I'm just curious.

Way behind. In no particular order:

Definitely ahead:
Hafner
Jeter
Thome
Dye
Mauer
M. Ramirez
Ortiz
Santana
Giambi

Pretty darn close:
F. Thomas
V. Guerrero
Sizemore

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by JS19

I think it's a good choice. You take Jeter off the Yankees and they are probably still gonna win the East and make the playoffs. Take Morneau off the Twins and it's probably a whole different team. About time they decided to give the award to the player who is MOST VALUABLE.

Dola

If you're going by this criteria, Frank Thomas should have won the award going away. Nick Swisher was the only other A to have a good offensive season. Take away Morneau and the Twins still have Mauer.

[Young Drachma]

And yet, you trust people of this same ilk to choose a national champion in football each year.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Depending on one's philosophy about pitchers-as-MVP you could say 2nd, but not 3rd -- Morneau in my opinion (and I did watch the Twins every day) had pretty far surpassed Mauer down the stretch. Joe was really fatiguing and slowing up in August and September. Nothing against him, he's terrific too, but I do believe the team consensus was that Morneau was its MVP.

The difference is that Mauer plays C and Morneau plays 1B/DH. Morneau had a good year, and if he played SS or C, he should be MVP. But a 1B putting up those kind of numbers, even in a year without a clear cut candidate, shouldn't be MVP, IMO.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by John Galt

The difference is that Mauer plays C and Morneau plays 1B/DH. Morneau had a good year, and if he played SS or C, he should be MVP. But a 1B putting up those kind of numbers, even in a year without a clear cut candidate, shouldn't be MVP, IMO.

Indeed. Heck, Grady Sizemore put up almost identical rate stats as Morneau, stole 20+ bases at a plus percent, and did it all while playing fantastic defense at an extremely challenging position. He deserves the MVP before Morneau does.

[CraigSca]

My concern is how this will affect Jeter's legacy.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

Jeter= Overrated

This is the second time in his career that Jeter's missed out on an MVP while being the best player in the league on a team that won its division (1999). I don't see how the overrated statement applies today.

[oykib]

These AL MVP voters are the biggest morons in the world. Why don't they just give another trophy to Juan Gonzalez?

[Maple Leafs]

Can he really be MVP when he's the supposed leader of a team that was torn apart by clubhouse issues that he allowed and actively encouraged? Doesn't letting your season go down the toilet because you're having some sort of Sweet Valley High rivalry with a teammate sort of disqualify you from the "most valuable" discussion?

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Can he really be MVP when he's the supposed leader of a team that was torn apart by clubhouse issues that he allowed and actively encouraged? Doesn't letting your season go down the toilet because you're having some sort of Sweet Valley High rivalry with a teammate sort of disqualify you from the "most valuable" discussion?

So... best record in the league = season down the toilet. I seem to recall many articles about fistfights and such in the Yankee clubhouse too.

Be objective. Even if you don't care for a guy, admit that he put together the best season when he does.

The only guy who was particularly cose to Jeter this year was Mauer.

How does Morneau get half the first place votes? How is he better than all the other 1B that put up the same numbers in the AL? HOw did Mauer not get any first place votes on that team?

[st.cronin]

I know a girl who went to high school with Joe Mauer. Her report: Nice guy, hung like a mouse.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by John Galt

The difference is that Mauer plays C and Morneau plays 1B/DH. Morneau had a good year, and if he played SS or C, he should be MVP. But a 1B putting up those kind of numbers, even in a year without a clear cut candidate, shouldn't be MVP, IMO.

OK, I understand that, and please help me out here if I'm not properly understanding the Sabermetric/stat geek aspect of this, as I freely admit my ignorance on same -- but Mauer's traditional power numbers really don't seem to be anywhere near Morneau's, namely 13 HR/84 RBI versus 34/130. I mean, Morneau did have 130 RBIs. It's a lot, especially for a Twin, lord knows they only get one of those guys once every couple of decades, and from a stat perspective perhaps that is what's making the difference?

Plus, again -- while the MVP criteria is pretty murky and slightly different for each individual -- perhaps where the most valuable player is concerned, the fact that Morneau was insane from mid-Mayish on forward (he was horrendous early) during the Twins' surge to the division title, while Mauer had a clearly inferior second half to his first half, made a difference for people. I think Morneau had a hell of a year in a season where there really wasn't a clear-cut MVP. So, here we are.

[ISiddiqui]

RBIs are a very poor way to measure an MVP. They entirely depend on the batters ahead of you and a better player who may be in the #2 spot won't get the same chances at RBIs as someone at #5. I can perhaps see using RBI/RBI Chances, but then you have to come up with a good measure for "chances".

Just because a player hits more HRs and RBIs doesn't mean he's better. You have to look at the amount of times he gets on base and his power in terms of doubles and triples as well as HRs.

Mauer had an OBP .429 and a SLG of .507, for an OPS of .936.
Morneau had an OBP of .375 and a SLG of .559 for an OPS of .934.

Similar, but Mauer wins out. Also, since it has been shown that OBP is the greatest determiner of runs scored, OBP should be weighed more highly.

If we OPS+ (OPS taking into account park factors with 100 being average), Mauer just wins 144 to 140.

Add to that Mauer's defensive contribution as a Catcher compared to 1B, and Mauer was better than Morneau as a player.

from a stat perspective perhaps that is what's making the difference?

Undoubtably. For whatever reason, these writers can't understand that RBI is not just a function of player skill, but a function of the skill of the players ahead of you as well.

[Scholes]

Just to throw this in, from a Minnesotan and someone who watched these guys all year, Santana was the MVP of the Twins and I think probably could have been MVP of the league if it weren't for the pitching bias. That said, the Twins' rise this last season was pretty much Morneau's doing more than Mauer's. Morneau led the league in 2 out RBI, was second to Mr. Clutch Ortiz in Close and Late RBI, and there are a few games I remember where he pretty much carried the team.

My vote would have been:
Santana
Jeter
Morneau

Everyone else.

Oh, and this goes "beyond the counting numbers" for me as well... for the stat heads out there, it just seems like he put the Twins in a position to win more often than Mauer, to me at least.

[Ryche]

Just from the standpoint of who was most valuable to their team, I think Morneau deserved it. Take him out of that Twins lineup and they would have been scoring 2 runs a game and would not have made the playoffs. I doubt the same is true for Jeter. That said, I thought Jeter would win and wouldn't have had a problem with that.

Morneau was more valuable to the Twins than Mauer this year. For most of the second half, Mauer was a slap singles hitter. The fact he still won the batting title makes me think he will put up some crazy numbers once he really starts driving the ball.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ryche

Just from the standpoint of who was most valuable to their team, I think Morneau deserved it. Take him out of that Twins lineup and they would have been scoring 2 runs a game and would not have made the playoffs.

As said by others earlier, using that criteria, Frank Thomas should have won the award in a walk.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

As said by others earlier, using that criteria, Frank Thomas should have won the award in a walk.

Wouldn't have had a problem with him winning either. There really were not any strong candidates in the AL this year.