FOF2K4: How would you use this guy? - Page 2

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 08:03 AM

Oh, he settled at 71/71, ratings-wise, at the end of season 3, I think, and he's been at that exact number since.

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 08:05 AM

Big injury season eight that cost him over half the season, but no ratings hit: 7 games, 30 catces, 336 yards, 11.2, 0 tds, 4 drops, 5kr, 115 yds, 23.0.

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 08:10 AM

Ol' Marlon bouces back a bit year 9, plays in 13 games, starts 12, and catches 60 for 840 yards and 4 Td's, with only 3 drops. Pretty good return numbers, too: 15pr, 103, 6.8, 33kr, 804, 24.3.

QuikSand · 07-22-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think he's too small to make him a WR. I'd use him as a traditional RB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I've never seen a guy that short convert succesfully to WR.

Just for the record, the conventional wisdom is that height is a meaningless item in FOF. Weight (but not height) seems to determine how effectively a player will make a permanent position switch. And neither seems to have any use beyond that. Height seems to have no effect at all on batted-down-passes doe DL, effectiveness over the middle as a receiver, downfield passing as a QB, nothing.

While height may play a role in "real football" planning, I haven't seen any evidence that it plays any role at all in this game. (With the possible exception of the TCY-to-FOF player conversion process)

If you have some evidence to the contrary... please post it in the Strategy Forum, as I'm sure plenty of people would be interested. I know I would.

st.cronin · 07-22-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Just for the record, the conventional wisdom is that height is a meaningless item in FOF. Weight (but not height) seems to determine how effectively a player will make a permanent position switch. And neither seems to have any use beyond that. Height seems to have no effect at all on batted-down-passes doe DL, effectiveness over the middle as a receiver, downfield passing as a QB, nothing.

While height may play a role in "real football" planning, I haven't seen any evidence that it plays any role at all in this game. (With the possible exception of the TCY-to-FOF player conversion process)

If you have some evidence to the contrary... please post it in the Strategy Forum, as I'm sure plenty of people would be interested. I know I would.

Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Most of my experience is in TCY-land, which may or may not be different. I haven't done any organized studies or anything. My observations have been that in any position switch, if a player's height and weight don't look "ideal" for the position in question, then it will be a disaster, regardless of what the scouts say.

QuikSand · 07-22-2006, 08:50 AM

I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking... just trying to offer up what I believe to be the consensus on this. Weight matters (in a very limited sense) and height does not.

st.cronin · 07-22-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking... just trying to offer up what I believe to be the consensus on this. Weight matters (in a very limited sense) and height does not.

I didn't take it as an attack. That was a genuine mea culpa on my part - I really don't know what I'm talking about. Probably what I am observing is just height/weight correlation.

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 08:59 AM

64/68 at the beginning of preseason of Year 10, but he has a big year:

96, 1192, 12.4ypc, 6 TD's, 10 drops. 22 kr, 630 yards, 28.6, 1 TD. 2nd Team. Leads league in receptions.

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 09:59 AM

Looks like he spent most of Year 11 injured. He's still rated pretty highly, but he only played in Weeks 8 and 9. Can he stage another comeback and perhaps be two-time Comeback Player of the Year?

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 10:00 AM

Nope. He retired.

698 catches, 9548 yards, 54 TD's. 8th all-time in receptions.

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 01:35 PM

Ben E Lou · 07-22-2006, 01:41 PM

I'm going to do another career tomorrow morning with him at RB, and hope he doesn't get a CEI...

Ben E Lou · 07-23-2006, 02:50 AM

Well, not so fast. It looks like this guy has stud potential at either position. AFter four years in a new career...

YR1: 209/723/3.45/12TD
YR2: 252/1110/4.40/7TD
YR3: 206/1108/5.37/8TD
YR4: 238/1299/5.45/13TD

Ben E Lou · 07-23-2006, 03:31 AM

He had a very solid test career as a RB, until the AI decided that 56/56 wasn't enough, and drafted a stud RB. He was a backup the rest of the way. He finished with 1675 carries for 7090 yards, 4.23ypc, 58 Td's. He caught 237 passes for 1902 yards. He averated 5.2 yards on punt returns, and 24.8 on kickoff returns.

I'll let y'all know how he does when I resume my real career very soon.

fantastic flying froggies · 07-23-2006, 12:59 PM

This whole thing kinda blows a hole in the 'hole recognition is everything' theory, don't you think?

Another example was your leading rusher in the CFL, who iirc had outstanding elusiveness but real bad hole recognition...

cthomer5000 · 07-23-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

This whole thing kinda blows a hole in the 'hole recognition is everything' theory, don't you think?

Another example was your leading rusher in the CFL, who iirc had outstanding elusiveness but real bad hole recognition...

I've always thought there were 4-5 key skills, and any 2 or 3 of them being really high were good enough.

fantastic flying froggies · 07-23-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've always thought there were 4-5 key skills, and any 2 or 3 of them being really high were good enough.

We're thinking pretty much along the same line then.

Ben E Lou · 07-23-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've always thought there were 4-5 key skills, and any 2 or 3 of them being really high were good enough.

That's what I've thought, too.

Buccaneer · 07-23-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

He's terrible running on 3rd downs though...

Save the game. Switch him to WR and see what the hit on his ratings is like... You can always go back to the saved game if you don't like the results.

So that ended up being good advice, in a way? Try him at RB, see what his career would be (in one run) then go back to a saved game and see what his career would be like at WR? I think you would need to run through this 10 times each to get a semi-accurate assessment of ratings and values. Also, he can get all of those yards with very little Hole Recognition and Third Down Running? Imagine that.

Buccaneer · 07-23-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've always thought there were 4-5 key skills, and any 2 or 3 of them being really high were good enough.

Ok, that's what I was trying to say. This is what I get on Warhammer for as well as being generally critical of focusing too much on "role" players. Any number of the key skills are good enough without getting too hung up on one specific one.

Ben E Lou · 08-06-2006, 05:41 PM

UPDATE:

Three seasons into his real career, he has started 41 games at RB, and rushed for 4.47 yards per carry. As a return man, he's got a 7.1 average on punts, with one career TD, and a 27.0 average on kickoffs, with 3 career TD's, one in each season. Due to injuries, I've played him at WR3 some, resulting in a 16.5 yards per catch average for him.

flere-imsaho · 08-07-2006, 09:21 AM

Good stuff. I love it when players end up just "clicking".

Grammaticus · 08-07-2006, 12:43 PM

I missed this one the first go around. I would have said go with running back too. He had decent inside and outside values. He kind of reminded me of Lionel "Little Train" James. Except at 5-7 195#, he is a freakin square brick. A little heavier than Lionel. I was a little surprised that your test careers did not yield something in the 7 yards average for punt returns. But it looks like you got the PR juice out of him in your real career.

Warhammer · 08-07-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Ok, that's what I was trying to say. This is what I get on Warhammer for as well as being generally critical of focusing too much on "role" players. Any number of the key skills are good enough without getting too hung up on one specific one.

I am pretty flexible with RBs. I prefer high HR over anything else, and then after that PI or SO. My only thing is if I don't have a good HR, then you really have to have your PI or SO coincide with your OL strengths.

I prefer to have all-around players if I can afford them, I/we just couldn't afford them before.

The best positions for role players are the DL (since you can get your pass rushers in on passing downs), secondary (since you can focus on one style of pass defense), and RBs (since you can focus on the outside/inside which best suits your RB or OL).

Ben E Lou · 08-13-2006, 08:28 AM

SPringer seems to have a fair share of games like the following, where one or two aspects of his game may be off, but if you give him enough touches, he's going to do something special eventually.

Week 11, 2013:

10 carries, 36 yards
3 catches, 68 yards, 2 TD's
2 punt returns, 8 yards
3 kick returns, 132 yards, 1 TD

Ben E Lou · 08-13-2006, 08:34 AM

...and then the following week, he comes back wtih 23 carries for 118 yards, 1 catch for 10, and 0 returns. Nice versatility!

View Poll Results: How would you use RB Marlon Springer???
RUNNING BACK. He needs to tote the rock. Dat boy run so good..	8	30.77%
POSITION SWITCH TO WIDE RECEIVER. Great route runner!	8	30.77%
KEEP AT RUNNING BACK, PUT IN DEPTH CHART AS RECEIVER. Don't risk position switching him.	10	38.46%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

07-22-2006, 08:05 AM	#52
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Big injury season eight that cost him over half the season, but no ratings hit: 7 games, 30 catces, 336 yards, 11.2, 0 tds, 4 drops, 5kr, 115 yds, 23.0. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 08:10 AM	#53
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Ol' Marlon bouces back a bit year 9, plays in 13 games, starts 12, and catches 60 for 840 yards and 4 Td's, with only 3 drops. Pretty good return numbers, too: 15pr, 103, 6.8, 33kr, 804, 24.3. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 08:59 AM	#58
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	64/68 at the beginning of preseason of Year 10, but he has a big year: 96, 1192, 12.4ypc, 6 TD's, 10 drops. 22 kr, 630 yards, 28.6, 1 TD. 2nd Team. Leads league in receptions. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 09:59 AM	#59
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Looks like he spent most of Year 11 injured. He's still rated pretty highly, but he only played in Weeks 8 and 9. Can he stage another comeback and perhaps be two-time Comeback Player of the Year? __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 08:50 AM	#56
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking... just trying to offer up what I believe to be the consensus on this. Weight matters (in a very limited sense) and height does not.

07-22-2006, 10:00 AM	#60
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Nope. He retired. 698 catches, 9548 yards, 54 TD's. 8th all-time in receptions. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 01:35 PM	#61
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	__________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-22-2006, 01:41 PM	#62
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I'm going to do another career tomorrow morning with him at RB, and hope he doesn't get a CEI... __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-23-2006, 02:50 AM	#63
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Well, not so fast. It looks like this guy has stud potential at either position. AFter four years in a new career... YR1: 209/723/3.45/12TD YR2: 252/1110/4.40/7TD YR3: 206/1108/5.37/8TD YR4: 238/1299/5.45/13TD __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-23-2006, 03:31 AM	#64
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	He had a very solid test career as a RB, until the AI decided that 56/56 wasn't enough, and drafted a stud RB. He was a backup the rest of the way. He finished with 1675 carries for 7090 yards, 4.23ypc, 58 Td's. He caught 237 passes for 1902 yards. He averated 5.2 yards on punt returns, and 24.8 on kickoff returns. I'll let y'all know how he does when I resume my real career very soon. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

07-23-2006, 12:59 PM	#65
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	This whole thing kinda blows a hole in the 'hole recognition is everything' theory, don't you think? Another example was your leading rusher in the CFL, who iirc had outstanding elusiveness but real bad hole recognition... __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

08-06-2006, 05:41 PM	#71
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	UPDATE: Three seasons into his real career, he has started 41 games at RB, and rushed for 4.47 yards per carry. As a return man, he's got a 7.1 average on punts, with one career TD, and a 27.0 average on kickoffs, with 3 career TD's, one in each season. Due to injuries, I've played him at WR3 some, resulting in a 16.5 yards per catch average for him. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-07-2006, 09:21 AM	#72
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Good stuff. I love it when players end up just "clicking".

08-07-2006, 12:43 PM	#73
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I missed this one the first go around. I would have said go with running back too. He had decent inside and outside values. He kind of reminded me of Lionel "Little Train" James. Except at 5-7 195#, he is a freakin square brick. A little heavier than Lionel. I was a little surprised that your test careers did not yield something in the 7 yards average for punt returns. But it looks like you got the PR juice out of him in your real career.

08-13-2006, 08:28 AM	#75
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	SPringer seems to have a fair share of games like the following, where one or two aspects of his game may be off, but if you give him enough touches, he's going to do something special eventually. Week 11, 2013: 10 carries, 36 yards 3 catches, 68 yards, 2 TD's 2 punt returns, 8 yards 3 kick returns, 132 yards, 1 TD __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-13-2006, 08:34 AM	#76
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	...and then the following week, he comes back wtih 23 carries for 118 yards, 1 catch for 10, and 0 returns. Nice versatility! __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

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