Xbox 360 help

[Mo.Raider]

Hi all,

My nephew's Xbox 360 died shortly after purchase. I told him to call microsoft, which he did, but they said they would offer him no assistance because he had broken the seal on the case that voids the warranty. He took the back off of the box to retrieve a game that he was afraid of losing if he had to ship the unit back. They tried to take it back to Best Buy with no luck even though they had purchased the extended warranty.

Is there anything he can do? My sister tried talking to the rep, and asked if there was some where that she could take the unit to be repaired if she paid for it, and the rep told her no one would work on it and basically they were out of luck.

Anyway any advice/tips on getting it to work for him would be appreciated. He is a hard working, GREAT kid who saved for a long time to purchase this just to have it die in less than a couple of days.

[ISiddiqui]

Why wouldn't Best Buy take it back? Because he opened the back of the case?

[Mo.Raider]

Yes. They said that voided the warranty also. I can see if they thought he might be tampering with it, but it was pretty obvious he was just a kid trying to get his game back. Even if the warranty is voided, it seems like there should be some way of repairing it.

[ISiddiqui]

See if this helps at all:

http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/...g-of-Death/p1/

[Mo.Raider]

Thanks for the link ISiddiqui. I will do some reading. I have been searching for a link like this for awhile, but everything has been either a dead link, or unintelligible. I hope I can find a solution for him. Like I said he is such a great kid. He just a country kid who earns every penny he makes, and it took him a long time to save up enough.

Thanks again

[Grammaticus]

Did you pay for it with a credit card? If you have not paid it off yet and did not sign a specific refund policy on your credit card receipt, you should be able to charge it back with a claim or defense chargeback. Otherwise known as "Reg Z".

But honestly, opening it when it says not to on the box is not an easy thing to defend. Good luck

[Mo.Raider]

Thanks Grammaticus. I am not sure how they paid for it. I haven't seen the unit so it is hard for me to visualize how entailed opening the box is. When he began looking into returning it, I think he read something that said anything accidentally shipped in the box could not be guaranteed to be returned. He probably thought he wouldn't get his game back. He shouldn't have opened it, but it seems that there should be a way for him to pay for repairs. That seems a little like Microsoft washing there hands of a known problem. I just feel bad for him.

[dawgfan]

I'm afraid this is going to end up being a very expensive lesson for your nephew. You might do some calling of electronic repair shops in your area to see if anyone is willing to take a shot at fixing it - at this point, you've got nothing to lose, so anyone trying to fix it can't make the situation any worse.

But I have to say I completely understand and support the position Microsoft and Best Buy have taken in this situation. Consider these factors:

- If someone opens up their Xbox out of curiosity and they break something, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

- If someone's Xbox stops working and they open up the box to try and fix it and they end up making it worse, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

- If someone opens up their Xbox to install a mod chip and they break something, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

And here's the thing - there's no way Microsoft or Best Buy can know for what purpose someone opened up their Xbox. If it was known that either Microsoft or Best Buy would back down and offer to honor the warranty even though people had opened the box for whatever reason, they'd be taken advantage of. For every kid like your nephew that opened up their broken Xbox just to retrieve a game, there are probably 100 people that opened up their Xbox and broke it themselves.

Also consider that piracy has been a rampant problem with the original Xbox and the PS2, so there's an additional incentive for Microsoft to discourage any reason for someone to open the case on their Xboxes - even if Microsoft offered a repair service for a charge, it would make modders much more willing to risk breaking their Xboxes knowing that they would have a way of repairing their damage for less than the cost of buying a replacement. It may also be the case that Microsoft is losing enough on the sale of the hardware that charging for repairs simply wouldn't make any financial sense - that selling a replacement Xbox at their usual loss would be cheaper than the average cost to fix a broken one.

The only rational thing Microsoft and Best Buy can do is to clearly state in the warranty that opening the box voids any warranty, which is what they do.

I'd take this opportunity to impart a lesson to your nephew, and point out that his line of thinking in trying to retrieve his game was faulty - in trying to save a $50 (or so) game that might have been lost had he sent the Xbox in for warranty repair, he voided the warranty on the Xbox and is thus out a $400 piece of equipment.

[Mo.Raider]

dawgfan- I agree it was a silly thing for him to do. The most silly thing of all is him trusting a Microsoft product that was known/is still known to have overheating issues. As far as profits for Microsoft is concerned it would seem even a little understanding and pointing him to someone that could repair their faulty product would have been beneficial for future sales. He offered to pay for the repair service they just said no. Something still stinks from this business model. I sell you a lemon that craps out in two days and since you voided the warranty "phew" I shirk all responsibility for said lemon. I think the really big thing that stinks is he really believed that if he left the game in it that Microsoft is not responsible for returning merchandise that is accidentally shipped with the unit and it would not be returned.

To sum up-yes he blew it. He was accountable for his actions and offered to pay for repairs, just doesn't know where to go. Microsoft's response: "sorry for the known problem, but it sucks to be you.

I really wasn't wanting to rant or defame Microsoft, just wanted to know if anyone knew of a way to help him fix his broken Xbox 360. I haven't talked to him tonight, but I hope ISiddiqui's links help him out.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm afraid this is going to end up being a very expensive lesson for your nephew. You might do some calling of electronic repair shops in your area to see if anyone is willing to take a shot at fixing it - at this point, you've got nothing to lose, so anyone trying to fix it can't make the situation any worse.

But I have to say I completely understand and support the position Microsoft and Best Buy have taken in this situation. Consider these factors:

- If someone opens up their Xbox out of curiosity and they break something, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

I have to disagree with this. A retailer's reponsibility is primarily to the CUSTOMER, and exceptions should always be made when it is apparent that the item is defective and the reason why the seal is broken is BECAUSE the item is defective. It is not reasonable to expect a customer to lose a $50 investment because the item it's used on is broken.

I agree with Grammaticus -- if it was paid for with a credit card, dispute the charge.

The error with the inital XBox 360s are well known. Again, it's not reasonable for Microsoft to expect people to eat a 50 dollar game that's stuck in the drive without reasonable attempts to get the game out. Either make exceptions to the policy or ensure that the game is returned. Either way, MS should be held responsible.

- If someone's Xbox stops working and they open up the box to try and fix it and they end up making it worse, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

They absolutely should. The damn thing should not have broken to begin with.

- If someone opens up their Xbox to install a mod chip and they break something, Microsoft and Best Buy shouldn't be held responsible;

That's true, and anyone worth their salt will be able to tell if that occured. Using it as an excuse when it clearly not what happened here is wrong.

And here's the thing - there's no way Microsoft or Best Buy can know for what purpose someone opened up their Xbox. If it was known that either Microsoft or Best Buy would back down and offer to honor the warranty even though people had opened the box for whatever reason, they'd be taken advantage of. For every kid like your nephew that opened up their broken Xbox just to retrieve a game, there are probably 100 people that opened up their Xbox and broke it themselves.

So you're punishing an innocent kid for what 100 other people MIGHT do? That's shoddy customer service.

Also consider that piracy has been a rampant problem with the original Xbox and the PS2, so there's an additional incentive for Microsoft to discourage any reason for someone to open the case on their Xboxes - even if Microsoft offered a repair service for a charge, it would make modders much more willing to risk breaking their Xboxes knowing that they would have a way of repairing their damage for less than the cost of buying a replacement. It may also be the case that Microsoft is losing enough on the sale of the hardware that charging for repairs simply wouldn't make any financial sense - that selling a replacement Xbox at their usual loss would be cheaper than the average cost to fix a broken one.

That's a cop out, and this situation isn't about what is in the best interest of Microsoft, it's the fact that a person who purchased their item is not getting proper service AND it's Microsoft's fault. Again, blaming someone who isn't try to pirate something for what someone else in an entirely different situation MIGHT do is HORRIBLE service. The fault is ENTIRELY on Microsoft and Best Buy on this.

I'd take this opportunity to impart a lesson to your nephew, and point out that his line of thinking in trying to retrieve his game was faulty - in trying to save a $50 (or so) game that might have been lost had he sent the Xbox in for warranty repair, he voided the warranty on the Xbox and is thus out a $400 piece of equipment.

Or impart a lesson to Best Buy/Microsoft by disputing the charge and buying a PS3 or Wii.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

dawgfan- I agree it was a silly thing for him to do.

To be frank, that's an understatement. Here's what I don't get - he looked into returning it, read something that said Microsoft couldn't guarantee that a game shipped back with the unit would be returned, yet somehow couldn't comprehend that opening the box would void the warranty and he wouldn't be able to send it back for repair?

The most silly thing of all is him trusting a Microsoft product that was known/is still known to have overheating issues.

Right, because every other consumer electronic product out there is completely without reliability issues, especially Sony's consoles which have neeeeever had any issues.

As far as profits for Microsoft is concerned it would seem even a little understanding and pointing him to someone that could repair their faulty product would have been beneficial for future sales. He offered to pay for the repair service they just said no.

So far as I know, there isn't any network of electronic repair shops that have expertise in repairing video game consoles. Microsoft likely has a shop or two to handle warranty repairs, but that's it.

And as I stated earlier, it's entirely possible that the cost for repairing the unit, including labor, would cost more than what they charge for the units new (since they sell them at a substantial loss), so charging for repair service in that case would be a waste of time.

Something still stinks from this business model. I sell you a lemon that craps out in two days and since you voided the warranty "phew" I shirk all responsibility for said lemon.

Not at all - the simple fact is, your nephew voided the warranty. Had he not done so, he could've sent it back for warranty repair and things would've been fine. Microsoft didn't design that warranty to be assholes - their reasons for saying the warranty is void if you open the box are entirely understandable as I pointed out earlier.

Think about it - if it wasn't the case that the warranty would be voided by opening the box (or if they were very casual about enforcing that rule) then they'd be stuck with a ton of warranty repair work caused by people that opened their boxes to mess around and broke something, or even worse people attempting to mod their box to play pirated games and broke something. Why should Microsoft be financially responsible for those situations?

Microsoft could trust that your nephew is telling the truth about why he opened the box, but the reality is that they can't know he's telling the truth, and being trusting would expose them to far more financial damage from modders and tinkerers making Microsoft eat the cost for screw-ups that aren't their fault than they'll lose from upsetting the rare cases like your nephew where there was innocent intent when they opened the box.

I think the really big thing that stinks is he really believed that if he left the game in it that Microsoft is not responsible for returning merchandise that is accidentally shipped with the unit and it would not be returned.

But if he was thinking logically, he'd understand that the fear of maybe not getting his game back (and he probably would've gotten it back - that wording was likely just legal cover in case the game somehow got lost along the way) meant that he was losing his $400 game machine to recover a $50 game.

To sum up-yes he blew it. He was accountable for his actions and offered to pay for repairs, just doesn't know where to go. Microsoft's response: "sorry for the known problem, but it sucks to be you.

Yep, he did screw-up, and no, I don't think Microsoft is trying to act like jerks here. I think it's a strong possibility that trying to fix the unit would be more expensive than just buying a new one, which is probably one reason why they don't offer a paid repair service.

[SackAttack]

dawg, answer me this.

On the original Xbox, there was a little-bitty hole that if you popped a pen head or paperclip into, would pop the tray open so you could retrieve the disc. That's what I did when my first Xbox died.

Does 360 have anything like that?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

I have to disagree with this. A retailer's reponsibility is primarily to the CUSTOMER, and exceptions should always be made when it is apparent that the item is defective and the reason why the seal is broken is BECAUSE the item is defective. It is not reasonable to expect a customer to lose a $50 investment because the item it's used on is broken.

Let's be clear here - I doubt Microsoft says you will lose any games accidentally shipped back to them, simply that they can't guarantee that they'll be returned.

And you're being presumptuous and naive in thinking that Microsoft or Best Buy can tell the intent of someone who opens up their Xbox. How could they know what the intent is?

You're acting like there was no reasonable recourse here, but there was - don't open the fucking box, and you can send it back under warranty to get the problem fixed.

I agree with Grammaticus -- if it was paid for with a credit card, dispute the charge.

He can try, but I doubt he'll get far with it, nor should he since he voided the fucking warranty.

The error with the inital XBox 360s are well known. Again, it's not reasonable for Microsoft to expect people to eat a 50 dollar game that's stuck in the drive without reasonable attempts to get the game out. Either make exceptions to the policy or ensure that the game is returned. Either way, MS should be held responsible.

You can make arguments about whether Microsoft should be required to guarantee the safe return of any game shipped with the unit, but I can see why they don't. Again, I doubt in most cases that games shipped back with the unit for repair don't get returned - I think this is simply legalese for Microsoft to cover their butts in case something happens along the way that the game gets lost or ruined.

They absolutely should. The damn thing should not have broken to begin with.

And there's an absolutely reasonable way for the consumer to get the issue dealt with - don't open the fucking box, and send it back to Microsoft to get it repaired under warranty.

Look, someone can claim that they opened up the box in an attempt to fix it themselves, but there's no reasonable way for Microsoft to know that the customer isn't lying, and in fact broke the machine themselves when they opened it up to monkey around with something.

Or, who's to say that by attempting to fix the unit themselves, they didn't screw it up even more, which is not Microsoft's fault, not when they give you a reasonable way to address any issues with the unit that aren't the consumer's fault.

That's true, and anyone worth their salt will be able to tell if that occured. Using it as an excuse when it clearly not what happened here is wrong.

That's probably true, but the added benefit of them insisting that repairs will only happen under warranty if the box isn't opened also helps act as a deterrent to modders - if you know that opening the box voids the warranty, it will make some people less willing to take that risk to install a mod chip.

So you're punishing an innocent kid for what 100 other people MIGHT do? That's shoddy customer service.

Might do? Are you really so naive as to think that people wouldn't abuse the hell out of a very lax return and repair policy?

It's not shoddy customer service at all. If the unit fails, Microsoft provides an entirely reasonable way to fix the problem. But that "innocent kid" screwed up and did what Microsoft clearly says he shouldn't do if he wants his game console fixed. Sorry, it's a tough lesson to learn, but he screwed-up.

That's a cop out, and this situation isn't about what is in the best interest of Microsoft, it's the fact that a person who purchased their item is not getting proper service AND it's Microsoft's fault. Again, blaming someone who isn't try to pirate something for what someone else in an entirely different situation MIGHT do is HORRIBLE service. The fault is ENTIRELY on Microsoft and Best Buy on this.

Absolute bullshit. Maybe in your happy little make-believe world everyone is honest and nobody cons or scams anyone else, but here in reality that simply isn't the case - Microsoft can't, nor should they, blindly trust that people are telling the truth about why they opened up their Xboxes.

Microsoft is offering perfectly reasonable customer service - if the unit breaks, send it back to us and we'll fix it - just don't open up the box, because if you have, we can't be sure that the problem with it wasn't caused or made worse by your actions. That's reality, that's reasonable, and Microsoft is absolutely correct to take this position.

Or impart a lesson to Best Buy/Microsoft by disputing the charge and buying a PS3 or Wii.

Feel free to do so, but don't be so naive as to think that these products will be completely free of issues - the PS2 had notorious reliability issues, and I'd be willing to bet a large sum that the PS3 and Wii will also void their warranties if you open them up yourself.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Let's be clear here - I doubt Microsoft says you will lose any games accidentally shipped back to them, simply that they can't guarantee that they'll be returned.

And you're saying that you, as a consumer, are willing to trust that MS will send the game back, knowing they have an out, AND bear no responsibility at all that the reason the game is in the machine to begin with is because the system is faulty? C'mon.

And you're being presumptuous and naive in thinking that Microsoft or Best Buy can tell the intent of someone who opens up their Xbox. How could they know what the intent is?

No, I'm saying that instead of assuming that the customer is being honest, they assume that ALL customers are trying to cheat. Yeah, that's excellent service.

You're acting like there was no reasonable recourse here, but there was - don't open the fucking box, and you can send it back under warranty to get the problem fixed.

And lose the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... of COURSE Microsoft is gonna send the game back. Sure. What world do you live on again?

He can try, but I doubt he'll get far with it, nor should he since he voided the fucking warranty.

I say this with knowledge of the subject, since I deal with credit card charges and issues on a daily basis -- a consumer may dispute a charge for "Issues with the Quality of the Goods or Services". If the charge occured in the same state the credit/debit card statements are issued, AND if the the value of the item is over $50.00, the consumer may dispute the charge. The consumer just needs to show an attempted resolution with the merchant itself, which he did.

It doesn't matter what the "warrenty" says -- In other words, he ABSOLUTELY can, and should dispute this charge.

You can make arguments about whether Microsoft should be required to guarantee the safe return of any game shipped with the unit, but I can see why they don't. Again, I doubt in most cases that games shipped back with the unit for repair don't get returned - I think this is simply legalese for Microsoft to cover their butts in case something happens along the way that the game gets lost or ruined.

I doubt most repaired units shipped back to the consumer DOES contain the games, simply because the company isn't obligated to return the games, and it costs extra manpower and time to keep track of the game and to ship it back with the unit. In other words, if they do not HAVE to, they won't.

And there's an absolutely reasonable way for the consumer to get the issue dealt with - don't open the fucking box, and send it back to Microsoft to get it repaired under warranty.

Again, and run the risk of losing a $50+ investment. Not a 'reasonable" way at all.

Look, someone can claim that they opened up the box in an attempt to fix it themselves, but there's no reasonable way for Microsoft to know that the customer isn't lying, and in fact broke the machine themselves when they opened it up to monkey around with something.

You're right, again ... there is no way to prove they're not lying -- so instead of giving the consumer -- the person who just paid well over 400 dollars for this unit -- the benefit of the doubt, you (the company) instead assume EVERYONE is lying, and set a policy designed to save you money from repairing your faulty equipment.

Or, who's to say that by attempting to fix the unit themselves, they didn't screw it up even more, which is not Microsoft's fault, not when they give you a reasonable way to address any issues with the unit that aren't the consumer's fault.

Again, I state -- it is not reasonable to lose a 50$ investment in order to repair a piece of equipment that should not not broken to begin with. You're basically asking the consumer to eat yet another $50-60 buck in addition to the cost of the XBox 360 unit. You say "I'm sure MS will give it back". The simple fact that they state they don't have to indicates to me they won't try to.

That's probably true, but the added benefit of them insisting that repairs will only happen under warranty if the box isn't opened also helps act as a deterrent to modders - if you know that opening the box voids the warranty, it will make some people less willing to take that risk to install a mod chip.

Again, and I never understand this stance -- why do you assume ALL of your customer are crooks? The crooks WILL find a way around the policy, so the only ones you're screwing over are the legitimate consumers. Yeah, its entirely possible that a person who is less than honest will get his XBox 360 repaired, but a customer-centric company simply does not think that way.

Might do? Are you really so naive as to think that people wouldn't abuse the hell out of a very lax return and repair policy?

Nope. As I said, I'm sure there are dishonest people who would take advantage of a more lax policy. Don't punish the legitimate consumers for what a SMALL percentage of people will do.

It's not shoddy customer service at all. If the unit fails, Microsoft provides an entirely reasonable way to fix the problem. But that "innocent kid" screwed up and did what Microsoft clearly says he shouldn't do if he wants his game console fixed. Sorry, it's a tough lesson to learn, but he screwed-up.

If that's what you believe, I'm sorry. Truth of the matter is that if MS (or any gaming company) sells me a $400 unit, and it eats one of my games, and the return policy states "Well, we'll fix our broken item, (which we knew was broken when we released it), but you might not get your $60 buck game back (which means you won't get your game back), I'm sure as hell gonna try to get it out before I take it to be repaired. REASONABLE people don't like to lose $60 for NOTHING.

Absolute bullshit. Maybe in your happy little make-believe world everyone is honest and nobody cons or scams anyone else, but here in reality that simply isn't the case - Microsoft can't, nor should they, blindly trust that people are telling the truth about why they opened up their Xboxes.

Wow. "Blindly trust people".

... wow. These "criminals" that you seem to want to screw over (not you personally, but MS/Sony/Nintendo), are YOUR CUSTOMERS. They forked over lots of money to you, and have an expectation that the system they paid so much for WORKS. When it doesn't, they have an expectation not to be treated as if they are criminals. Which is what you're saying ALL the customer are.

Feel free to do so, but don't be so naive as to think that these products will be completely free of issues - the PS2 had notorious reliability issues, and I'd be willing to bet a large sum that the PS3 and Wii will also void their warranties if you open them up yourself.

You're right about Sony, and I don't agree with their policy either ... BUT they make exceptions, and I know because I've seen them make those exceptions.

That's what I'm saying ... look at the circumstances of the incident, as it's apparent what happened here. This kid ISN'T trying to cheat, so don't treat him like one.

Nintendo, however, if my mind's right, has a sterling record of working systems with very little issues right out of the box. Maybe the best policy Microsoft can make is to make a gaming unit that isn't broken when you sell it. Same goes for Sony.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

If that's what you believe, I'm sorry. Truth of the matter is that if MS (or any gaming company) sells me a $400 unit, and it eats one of my games, and the return policy states "Well, we'll fix our broken item, (which we knew was broken when we released it), but you might not get your $60 buck game back (which means you won't get your game back), I'm sure as hell gonna try to get it out before I take it to be repaired. REASONABLE people don't like to lose $60 for NOTHING.

Nothing personal, but in my mind, there seems to be a flaw in your logic, and this paragraph is the best example.

You seem to want Microsoft to put more trust in their customers, yet you don't afford Microsoft the same trust. You apparently assume that they won't send your game back if you can't get it out of the broken XBox, so in a case like this one, it's OK to intentionally void the warranty. I would guess that Microsoft does at least try to get the games back to the customers in cases like this, but I see why they won't guarantee it. "Guarantee" is a pretty strong word, and in certain cases, they're asking for trouble by guaranteeing something that's not in their warranty to begin with.

As for Microsoft "knowing" that their system is broken, that seems rather unfair. Should we assume that every early XBox 360 is "broken" and put them on a countdown to failure, or is it at least plausible that most of the machines actually work normally? My point is that you seem to be holding Microsoft to an unfairly high standard here because they apparently deceived all of their customers by releasing a faulty product, and now they make people jump through hoops to get it repaired. Personally, I just don't see that there was any deception here. Many 360s work, but some of them don't. Microsoft is repairing the broken ones, and all they really ask is that you don't void the warranty.

If someone wants to claim that Microsoft is screwing them over this, an easier way would be this: Send the console (with the game in it) to Microsoft. Let them repair the console. If you don't get your game back, fight them for your $60 then. At least you have your working console, you haven't voided a warranty and screwed yourself out of a $400 purchase, and you have just as much chance of winning your argument with them.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Nothing personal, but in my mind, there seems to be a flaw in your logic, and this paragraph is the best example.

You seem to want Microsoft to put more trust in their customers, yet you don't afford Microsoft the same trust. You apparently assume that they won't send your game back if you can't get it out of the broken XBox, so in a case like this one, it's OK to intentionally void the warranty. I would guess that Microsoft does at least try to get the games back to the customers in cases like this, but I see why they won't guarantee it. "Guarantee" is a pretty strong word, and in certain cases, they're asking for trouble by guaranteeing something that's not in their warranty to begin with.

As for Microsoft "knowing" that their system is broken, that seems rather unfair. Should we assume that every early XBox 360 is "broken" and put them on a countdown to failure, or is it at least plausible that most of the machines actually work normally? My point is that you seem to be holding Microsoft to an unfairly high standard here because they apparently deceived all of their customers by releasing a faulty product, and now they make people jump through hoops to get it repaired. Personally, I just don't see that there was any deception here. Many 360s work, but some of them don't. Microsoft is repairing the broken ones, and all they really ask is that you don't void the warranty.

If someone wants to claim that Microsoft is screwing them over this, an easier way would be this: Send the console (with the game in it) to Microsoft. Let them repair the console. If you don't get your game back, fight them for your $60 then. At least you have your working console, you haven't voided a warranty and screwed yourself out of a $400 purchase, and you have just as much chance of winning your argument with them.

Couldn't have said it any better myself...

[albionmoonlight]

There are, generally, when one buys goods, two types of warranty. Contractual warranty (which can be voided by whatever the contract says) and implied warranties of fitness and merchantability (which operate through force of law and cannot be voided so easily).

Don't beleive that the contractual warranty is the only option that you have for recovery. Unfortunately, your nephew probably needs to talk to someone with a little better understanding of state specific consumer law than you can find on here. Fortunately, however, he (or his parents) may be able to find something on his state attorney general's web page. A lot of them have a consumer protection division. May be worth giving them a call.

The best bet is to have a lawyer in the family who can write a letter on your behalf that contains some of the right phrasing. Again, however, you would probably need an attorney to know what that phrasing is.

So, my advice, meager as it is: 1.) Look on the state AG's web page for consumer protection information.
2.) Talk to an attorney if there is one who is friend/family available.

[Ragone]

It's kinda dishonest.. and you may not want them to do this..

but.. exchange it at wal-mart. they'll do it as long as the packaging is intact.. i'd just tell them it didn't work.

I personally wouldn't do that, but i've heard many a tale of people who return all kinds of crap to wal-mart without a receipt/etc,

[Mo.Raider]

Thanks WVU Fan, Grammaticus, Issidiqui, albionmoonlight, and even Ragone (although my nephew's good character would never let him try something like this). You guys were helpful, which was the true reason behind my post. I was just trying to find out how I could help him. It just seems silly to buy something and then use it as a doorstop when it could be fixed.

To Dawgfan- Thanks for wasting a good portion of your life and mine on a useless sermon. Your first post was fine because you didn't agree. It contained a little of the original intent of the thread by trying to help in the first few sentences, but quickly faded into what could be best construed as "I work for Microsoft". The second one sprinkled with the f-bomb lost all credibility because it was just an angry retort that made me think "wow, this guy has waaaay to much time on his hands".

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

Thanks WVU Fan, Grammaticus, Issidiqui, albionmoonlight, and even Ragone (although my nephew's good character would never let him try something like this). You guys were helpful, which was the true reason behind my post. I was just trying to find out how I could help him. It just seems silly to buy something and then use it as a doorstop when it could be fixed.

To Dawgfan- Thanks for wasting a good portion of your life and mine on a useless sermon. Your first post was fine because you didn't agree. It contained a little of the original intent of the thread by trying to help in the first few sentences, but quickly faded into what could be best construed as "I work for Microsoft". The second one sprinkled with the f-bomb lost all credibility because it was just an angry retort that made me think "wow, this guy has waaaay to much time on his hands".

fwiw, you can look at the character issue in more ways than one. If you purchased the product and now cannot get anyone to work on it because the manufacturere controls that and prohibits it, was that stated up front? Basically, the warranty is voided, okay. But you still cannot get someone to work on it even if you pay. If that was not stated, I would not feel bad charging it back and offering to return the broken box. Now if they would fix it and charge you, then yes, charging it back may not be the right move.

Either way if you charge it back, the merchant can still persue other avenues such as court, etc. For the price mentioned that is usually not profitable and the merchant absorbs it. If you feel it is the wrong thing to do, then definately don't do it.

[Mo.Raider]

Grammaticus- I'm sorry my wording was unclear when it came to mentioning my nephew's good character. I was referring to Ragone's advice about exchanging it at Wal-Mart.

Your advice about disputing the charge is good. I had not thought of this before, but I am checking into whether or not my sister used a credit card to purchase this. This is one reason I use a credit card also on big purchases. It gives you at least some recourse.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mo.Raider

To Dawgfan- Thanks for wasting a good portion of your life and mine on a useless sermon. Your first post was fine because you didn't agree. It contained a little of the original intent of the thread by trying to help in the first few sentences, but quickly faded into what could be best construed as "I work for Microsoft". The second one sprinkled with the f-bomb lost all credibility because it was just an angry retort that made me think "wow, this guy has waaaay to much time on his hands".

Used to work for Microsoft, haven't for a while now. I'm sure I'm more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt than many here, but my points still come down to simply not seeing any reason to be upset with their policies in this case and being baffled as to why your nephew would be aware enough to see that there was a possibility he might not get his game back yet not realize that his attempt to retrieve his game would void his possibility of fixing his system for free.

As to the rest, sorry you don't like my point of view. People differ. And I didn't drop an f-bomb in describing anyone - I didn't direct it at you or your nephew or anyone else, it was used in repsonse to someone else that took a very defensive position against my points and whose post was very combative. Your cheapshots at Microsoft were duly noted though, with responses in kind.

I also spent a fair portion of those posts attempting to explain probable reasons why finding an alternate solution would be difficult - once again, I suspect that the cost of trying to fix an Xbox 360 is likely in most cases more expensive than buying another one new (since they sell the hardware at a loss).

Maybe I'm off, but I'm not aware of any network of repair shops that work on game consoles - if this were a PS2 or a GameCube, would the situation be any different?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

dawg, answer me this.

On the original Xbox, there was a little-bitty hole that if you popped a pen head or paperclip into, would pop the tray open so you could retrieve the disc. That's what I did when my first Xbox died.

Does 360 have anything like that?

Sorry I missed this post originally - I'm not sure, I'd have to look at the dev kit in my office. Since it was present on the first one, it would be odd if they left it out on the 360.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ragone

It's kinda dishonest.. and you may not want them to do this..

but.. exchange it at wal-mart. they'll do it as long as the packaging is intact.. i'd just tell them it didn't work.

I personally wouldn't do that, but i've heard many a tale of people who return all kinds of crap to wal-mart without a receipt/etc,

They are starting to bend from this, especially with their electronics.

360's, PS2's, Gamecubes, Ipods, all are generally exempt from the Wal-mart accepts anything for returns. Most of the time, the dept manager is called to the front counter to talk to the CSM and customer, if they aren't there, it then falls to the assistant managers responsibility, if they aren't there, it will hit the Co-manager, and if they aren't there, the store manager.

Now the thing is, you will get stonewalled all the way up to the CO, the store manager might give, but I doubt it, but it also depends if that stores electronics dept is higher than 10% of their sales, generally those stores are the ones I see that take care of their electronics dept and follow the policies to a T.

[Mo.Raider]

dawgfan- Sorry if my post seemed a little rude, but I was starting to get the impression that your intent was to say "gee, your nephew is a little stupid". He is very smart, he just made a mistake. I made four posts before I said anything that seemed even remotely like a cheap shot, and that was after I felt that I was being talked down to by a Microsoft rep. My cheap shots are my true feelings and I think they are well earned. I still don't agree with Microsoft's flippant, nearly rude behavior when it comes to customer support. It seems that if they have already taken a loss as you say on the unit, why not let him pay for the repairs and continue to support Microsoft by buying the actual money maker which is the games. He would feel like he had been taken care of as a customer. Now, he nor any of his relatives, or probably friends will touch an Xbox 360.

You spoke of the problems that would arise if they charged him to repair his Xbox. That just doesn't make sense to the customer. How in the world is my nephew going to cause a financial crisis for Microsoft? Would he tell his friends that "hey, try modding your Xbox and they will only charge you a $150.00 bucks for repairing it." To most, that is enough of a deterrent right there. I'm sorry but as a customer, I still only hear "We know how to fix your machine, because it is a known issue, but we will not, so go buy another one." When did customers become so annoying to the merchants. Man, somewhere I can still hear one of Ross Perot's favorite business slogans, "make you customer king". I think Microsoft has lost touch and lost sight, and unfortunately become untouchable. You mentioned a lesson to impart to my nephew. We have all learned a lesson. Take your money and buy anything but Microsoft when possible. I now begrudge the fact that I am using windows XP.

In the end regardless of what you said in defense of Microsoft, the end result is several customers with a deep distrust of Microsoft that wasn't there before this. No matter who is “right” is this really the end results that Microsoft would want from this? It seems like it could have been handled better.

Now since I have strayed away from my original intent in the thread which was finding help to fix my nephew's Xbox 360. I will sign off and to quote Bill O'Reilly "I will give you the last word".

[dawgfan]

Just to try and clarify some of these issues, I looked up the manual online. Here's what I found from the Xbox website:

http://assets.xbox.com/en-us/support...e-warranty.pdf

From what I'm reading here, I'm not seeing anything that mentions the possibility that games might not be returned if the box is sent back to MS for warranty repair. If I've missed that in the material, let me know, but it appears that your nephew's fears about losing his game may have been unfounded. Not trying to demean him, just saying he may have been misinformed.

The other thing that stood out was this part:

"After the Warranty Period has expired, Microsoft may charge you a fee for its efforts to diagnose and service any Xbox Product-related problems."

If it were me, I'd press them on this point - even if the warranty is voided, it appears that this part of the warranty agreement still allows for the possibility of MS fixing or at least diagnosing the problem(s) for a fee. I'd call them back and quote this part of the agreement, and if they don't budge, I'd consult with your state attorney general or some similar consumer protection advocate to get some additional weight behind your cause.

Also, not sure if you've used the whole "I'd like to talk to your supervisor" tactic, but that's worth doing as well - it may well be you (or your nephew) has been interacting with someone that doesn't know all the provisions of the warranty as well as he/she should.

Hopefully this clarifies the issues.