United States Flags and July 4th

[Raiders Army]

Okay, it's pretty sad that there are only two people on my block who have their flags out and I'm one of them. Just me, but since everyone on my block is in the Army and we live on post I would figure that everyone would have their flags out. In my mind, July 4th is a day when we have our flags out, grill going, and a beer in the hand while we're cooking. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

[st.cronin]

On July 4th, I like to find myself a Brit, and kick his ass.

j/k

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Okay, it's pretty sad that there are only two people on my block who have their flags out and I'm one of them. Just me, but since everyone on my block is in the Army and we live on post I would figure that everyone would have their flags out. In my mind, July 4th is a day when we have our flags out, grill going, and a beer in the hand while we're cooking. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

OT: I saw some paratroopers yesterday. That was pretty darn cool.

On T: Sigh.

[thealmighty]

Our neighborhood association puts a flag in every yard in the area. US flags line every street around. Looks nice.

[Cringer]

1) I don't need a flag to be patriotic.

2) The weeds in my yard would keep it from anyone seeing anyways.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

Our neighborhood association puts a flag in every yard in the area. US flags line every street around. Looks nice.

wtf? do they at least ask people first?

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

wtf? do they at least ask people first?

No, they just do it. If you are French or whatever and don't want one, you can take it away, which a few houses have done.

[CraigSca]

Do you live in a single family home neighborhood, or is it a townhome community?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Do you live in a single family home neighborhood, or is it a townhome community?

Single family home neighborhood. Everyone lives in "regular" homes. Anyhow, we took a walk last night to see how many people on our street had flags up. There were only three other than us. Just to clarify, we live on Fort Bliss and every family who lives on Fort Bliss is in the military (we have Marines and some Air Force and Navy here). I would think that the people here would tend to be more patriotic than your average citizens.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

Our neighborhood association puts a flag in every yard in the area. US flags line every street around. Looks nice.

I think it's funny that some people are so proud of their country that they are willing to break it's laws in order to let others know.

-Anxiety

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Single family home neighborhood. Everyone lives in "regular" homes. Anyhow, we took a walk last night to see how many people on our street had flags up. There were only three other than us. Just to clarify, we live on Fort Bliss and every family who lives on Fort Bliss is in the military (we have Marines and some Air Force and Navy here). I would think that the people here would tend to be more patriotic than your average citizens.

Once again, I don't think waving a flag makes you more patriotic then someone who is not. But mainly I am posting to agree with you that you would think more people living in base housing would have flags out.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Once again, I don't think waving a flag makes you more patriotic then someone who is not. But mainly I am posting to agree with you that you would think more people living in base housing would have flags out.

I agree with your statement about waving a flag not necessarily making someone more patriotic. It's sort of like how someone who doesn't go to church could be more religious than someone who goes every week.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I think it's funny that some people are so proud of their country that they are willing to break it's laws in order to let others know.

-Anxiety

Ummmm....what?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Ummmm....what?

I think I got the reference he was making.

If indeed the neighborhood association is putting flags in people's yards without permission then they are at least trespassing and possibly violating any of several variations of sign/display ordinances.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think I got the reference he was making.

If indeed the neighborhood association is putting flags in people's yards without permission then they are at least trespassing and possibly violating any of several variations of sign/display ordinances.

That's what I thought he was referring to as well.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think I got the reference he was making.

If indeed the neighborhood association is putting flags in people's yards without permission then they are at least trespassing and possibly violating any of several variations of sign/display ordinances.

That is how I understand his post.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

No, they just do it. If you are French or whatever and don't want one, you can take it away, which a few houses have done.

As a sidebar, I guess I'd fall in the "whatever" category on this. Simply put, nobody has any business putting anything in my yard without my express permission. So sayeth the porch-sitting curmudgeon.

(The porch-sitting is figurative, it's too friggin hot to sit on the porch today for any reason)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think I got the reference he was making.

If indeed the neighborhood association is putting flags in people's yards without permission then they are at least trespassing and possibly violating any of several variations of sign/display ordinances.

But where did he get "without permission?" When the people moved into the neighborhood, they signed an agreement that they would allow the association to do just that (very common part of those agreements are uniform displays on holidays). You have to read something in to suggest that anything illegal happened there.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Simply put, nobody has any business putting anything in my yard without my express permission.

Damn skippy. This is my little piece of the world. It is what I work for, for my family and myself. There is no such thing as 'over-reaction' when it comes to my home and property.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

But where did he get "without permission?" When the people moved into the neighborhood, they signed an agreement that they would allow the association to do just that (very common part of those agreements are uniform displays on holidays). You have to read something in to suggest that anything illegal happened there.

You don't have to read anything in at all. All the post said, that I am referring to is, "Out neighborhood accociation puts flags in every yard, and people who don't want them have to remove them" or something to that effect. You have to read something in there that says the association has permission, because the default is that no one has permission to put things in your yard. It'd be like the neighborhood association walking down the street and putting "Vote for Hillary Clinton" signs in everybody's lawn.

-Anxiety

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You have to read something in to suggest that anything illegal happened there.

Actually, I just interpreted what was posted:
Q: do they at least ask people first?
A: No, they just do it.

No mention of any covenants, agreements, or anything of that sort. Simply "they just do it".

Now it's certainly possible that his answer was shorthand & that there's some backstory as you suggest, but I'd say that's the leap of assumption here rather than interpreting it as several of us apparently did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Cringer

There is no such thing as 'over-reaction' when it comes to my home and property.

Oh my brother TESTIFY !

[Abe Sargent]

Agree with JIMGA

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

You don't have to read anything in at all. All the post said, that I am referring to is, "Out neighborhood accociation puts flags in every yard, and people who don't want them have to remove them" or something to that effect. You have to read something in there that says the association has permission, because the default is that no one has permission to put things in your yard. It'd be like the neighborhood association walking down the street and putting "Vote for Hillary Clinton" signs in everybody's lawn.

-Anxiety

This is common practice with neighborhood associations, and you give them premission to do it when you sign the contract on the house. They techinically could put a "Vote for Hillary" sign in your yard if it passes the association vote depending on how your contract is written. On top of that, some contracts compell you to be a part of the decorations, so the people removing the flags might actually be breaking their covenant (again depending on contract). But to jump to the conclusion that this is somehow illegal is a big leap.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, I just interpreted what was posted:
Q: do they at least ask people first?
A: No, they just do it.

No mention of any covenants, agreements, or anything of that sort. Simply "they just do it".

Now it's certainly possible that his answer was shorthand & that there's some backstory as you suggest, but I'd say that's the leap of assumption here rather than interpreting it as several of us apparently did.

If there is a neighborhood association, there has to be a covenant. That's law. People can't form an association without a covenant, so again there is no leap here. If you don't want people to put things in your yard, don't move into a neighborhood with a neighborhood association.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This is common practice with neighborhood associations, ... to jump to the conclusion that this is somehow illegal is a big leap.

Obviously there are at least two points where we disagree.

I'd say that covenants spelling out displays on common areas are indeed, well, "common" but forced displays in private yards much less so (more typical would be restrictions preventing displays, not forcing them).

With that in mind, I'll stick to my original interpretation.

edit to add: The presence of covenants and the content of those covenants are entirely different affairs. And it seems highly likely to me that the rules governing even the existence of associations & their requirements would vary from state to state.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This is common practice with neighborhood associations, and you give them premission to do it when you sign the contract on the house. They techinically could put a "Vote for Hillary" sign in your yard if it passes the association vote depending on how your contract is written. On top of that, some contracts compell you to be a part of the decorations, so the people removing the flags might actually be breaking their covenant (again depending on contract). But to jump to the conclusion that this is somehow illegal is a big leap.

I have very little (read: no) experience with neighborhood associations -- this is news to me.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Obviously there are at least two points where we disagree.

I'd say that covenants spelling out displays on common areas are indeed, well, "common" but forced displays in private yards much less so (more typical would be restrictions preventing displays, not forcing them).

With that in mind, I'll stick to my original interpretation.

Actually, it is very common. I've seen the law suits from people trying to prevent Halloween decorations being put into their yards and such (and they generally lose). It just depends on your covenant. It is also very common for covenants to allow someone to come on your yard and cut your grass or remove unapproved yard decorations. My advice is not to move into a very restrictive neighborhood.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Vince

I have very little (read: no) experience with neighborhood associations -- this is news to me.

call me crazy but this is the first time I've heard of a nehgborhood association. Never heard of such a thing where people could come to my front yard and bitch about the Halloween decorations I've put up, or how the lawn is mowed....

FM

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It just depends on your covenant.

Exactly.

And in my experiences as: a property owner, the son of an association president, a journalist covering such associations, and a member of a zoning board that had to deal with a few conflicts between county ordinances & association covenants, I'd say they are typical weighted heavily toward "shall not" instead of "shall".

I'm sure that cases like you're talking about do indeed exist & have even heard of a few cases starting in the past few years but I still stop well short of believing they are commonplace.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

call me crazy but this is the first time I've heard of a nehgborhood association. Never heard of such a thing where people could come to my front yard and bitch about the Halloween decorations I've put up, or how the lawn is mowed....

Largely a symptom of a suburban subdivision culture.

Generally one of the most consistently poorly implemented ideas I've ever run across, proving time & again beyond any shadow of a doubt in my mind that amateurs attempting to jointly manage property is the biggest fool's errand in the history of mankind.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

If there is a neighborhood association, there has to be a covenant. That's law. People can't form an association without a covenant, so again there is no leap here. If you don't want people to put things in your yard, don't move into a neighborhood with a neighborhood association.

No, you are thinking of a homeowner's association. Informal associations are usually referred to as nighborhood associations, but the formal bodies with covenants and a baord of directors and whatnot are typically referrred to as a homeowners association.


-Anxiety

[thealmighty]

Damn, y'all sure did make a big deal out of something I don't even think twice about.

Since we do not, in fact, own the house in question (we lease from my wife's best friend), we are not actually IN the neighborhood group, association, coven, or whatever you wish to call it, and I therefore have no idea about any such stipulation.

Nor, in fact, do I care. It's just a little flag stuck in the dirt by the sidewalk. It does not have any invisible ink message or a hammer/sickle that are watermarked on and can only be seen on Halloween by members of the Knight's Templar or whatever. Maybe I will soon be part of a huge class-action lawsuit which I will, naturally, write a dynasty about.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by thealmighty

Damn, y'all sure did make a big deal out of something I don't even think twice about.

Since we do not, in fact, own the house in question (we lease from my wife's best friend), we are not actually IN the neighborhood group, association, coven, or whatever you wish to call it, and I therefore have no idea about any such stipulation.

Nor, in fact, do I care. It's just a little flag stuck in the dirt by the sidewalk. It does not have any invisible ink message or a hammer/sickle that are watermarked on and can only be seen on Halloween by members of the Knight's Templar or whatever. Maybe I will soon be part of a huge class-action lawsuit which I will, naturally, write a dynasty about.

That what was I was thinking. They don't do anything in the neighborhood we live in, but in my parents neighborhood one of the realtors puts a flag in everyone's yard for Memorial Day...it's really nice. I think it's a nice gesture. If you don't like it, pull it out of the grass and throw it away...kind of like if you don't like the song on the radio, don't call for censorship, just change the channel.

[Joe]

I'd burn the flag and piss on the ashes if someone did that in my yard

[thealmighty]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

I'd burn the flag and piss on the ashes if someone did that in my yard

And maybe, if we were lucky, the wind would be really strong into your face while you did so.

[Joe]

you're not that lucky

[thealmighty]

I'm thealmighty...I make my own luck.