Would you download FOF or TCY from a file sharing service?

[mrskippy]

OK Let's say that someone posted FOF, TCY, or any of the other text-based sims we so know and love on a free file sharing service like Kazaa or Morpheus. This download was the real deal. The FOF and TCY files include the last name and code; the eLicense games are hacked to remove it. Everything works like a charm.

Would you take the downloads, rather than buy the games?

[astralhaze]

How about no because I support indie developers but would not report anyone who did?

[Airhog]

this poll is asinine.....

[mrskippy]

I posted this in response to the 99 cent music poll. I just want to see if anyone see's a difference between stealing music and a game. Both are intellectual and copyrighted property right?

[Fritz]

of course, one would need the product code.

[mrskippy]

Fritz ...

That's why I stated ... if the download include the product code or a hacked eLicense. In essence, a perfectly good, workable copy of the game.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by mrskippy
Fritz ...

That's why I stated ... if the download include the product code or a hacked eLicense. In essence, a perfectly good, workable copy of the game.

I know. I was thinking that the lic. code is what you are "stealing", not the software.

I answered "Maybe! If I already owned the game, lost it and needed a replacement" but this is with the assumption that I still had my code.

[mrskippy]

That's a good point Fritz.

If you've ever looked at Kazaa, you will see that there are hacks that remove the registration components, Microsoft reg. keys, hacks, etc. So you can't say it's impossible for some idiot to post an eLicense hack.

Speaking of file sharing software. I do think it's great the companies that make the software won in court. Kazaa, Morpheus, Grokster, etc. are great software tools and can serve a legitimate purpose. Court basically equated them to VCRs.

[Bishop]

There's a difference in downloading music and downloading software, especially from independant companies... Not saying either is legal or right, but lets say you download the whole 50-cent cd.... He's already sold 6 or 7 million copies, that is nearing 100+ million roughly so they aren't really gonna even care. Not including money from tours and singles and whatever else.

That's after thousands of people have downloaded his music instead of buying it.


I'd assume that a game like FOF would only make a couple hundred thousand, possibly a million or two (if that) from sales... I may be way off but still there is a big difference in profit there, and that is without anyone stealing the game (atleast that I know of).

So while one can survive very successfully without, the other couldn't.

[Fritz]

I think if jim sold enough to make a million dollars he would fall over dead.

[henry296]

Bishop,

So it is ok to break into and steal from a rich person's house than from a poor person's house?

Todd

[AgPete]

I'm assuming my post about music companies offering songs for money was deleted because I can't open the thread anymore. I guess someone mentioned file sharing services too much? Sorry FOFC, wasn't trying to promote anything other than the new pay service. Moral arguments aside, I figured with all the computer nuts here, a lot of people here used file sharing services and was curious if a pricing and availability change would alter people's habits.

I don't use file sharing services but if I had a choice, no I would never download any of these small text-based sims because I agree with others that stealing FOF makes a heck of a lot more difference than stealing a song from a giant record label. Jim and other sim makers are working out of their house fronting their own cash to make these things so while stealing is stealing someone is certainly more apt to consider the moral dilemma more thoroughly before trying it with a small company.

[Alan T]

Originally posted by Bishop
There's a difference in downloading music and downloading software, especially from independant companies... Not saying either is legal or right, but lets say you download the whole 50-cent cd.... He's already sold 6 or 7 million copies, that is nearing 100+ million roughly so they aren't really gonna even care. Not including money from tours and singles and whatever else.

That's after thousands of people have downloaded his music instead of buying it.


I'd assume that a game like FOF would only make a couple hundred thousand, possibly a million or two (if that) from sales... I may be way off but still there is a big difference in profit there, and that is without anyone stealing the game (atleast that I know of).

So while one can survive very successfully without, the other couldn't.

This is totally rationalizing the issue in a way to make someone feel ok about their actions, or that their actions do not hurt anyone. I am not in the business of telling people what is right or wrong, you all are capable of deciding that for yourself. All I know is that I work for a software company (non-gaming software), and if I saw somewhere that someone was stealing the software, thus reducing the profits of my company, I would definitely do what I could to make sure the person was punished appropriately for that.

I am sure if someone took something from you you would do the same. As for everything else that does not affect me, I don't care what you all decide. Its your decision to make, but just remember the law might feel differently

[Franklinnoble]

I'll say this much... how did musicians make money before they had the ability to sell recorded music?

Maybe they should stick to that, and let whatever other mechanisms that exist to make them more popular be.

Comparing it to software piracy is apples-and-oranges, my friend.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by AgPete
I'm assuming my post about music companies offering songs for money was deleted because I can't open the thread anymore. I guess someone mentioned file sharing services too much? Sorry FOFC, wasn't trying to promote anything other than the new pay service. Moral arguments aside, I figured with all the computer nuts here, a lot of people here used file sharing services and was curious if a pricing and availability change would alter people's habits.

I don't use file sharing services but if I had a choice, no I would never download any of these small text-based sims because I agree with others that stealing FOF makes a heck of a lot more difference than stealing a song from a giant record label. Jim and other sim makers are working out of their house fronting their own cash to make these things so while stealing is stealing someone is certainly more apt to consider the moral dilemma more thoroughly before trying it with a small company.

Ummmm.....I sure didn't delete it. I saw it earlier this morning. Is it gone now?

[Bishop]

Originally posted by henry296
Bishop,

So it is ok to break into and steal from a rich person's house than from a poor person's house?

Todd

It's not about if its right or wrong, the whole point is your affecting the poor person more...

I am not saying either is right, to download music or software illegally.

Point was if you steal some songs from a multi million dollar artist who already has made several millions from his album, he's not gonna think twice about releasing a new album.

If you steal FOF, an so does several others to the point where that Jim only makes enough to barely even break even or not even that, your not gonna have anymore future versions.

So there is a big difference in the actual impact it has.

Sure your taking some money away from both, but it could and probably would end the product for the software developer, or cause huge incoveniences for future versions.


Quick edit to point out the fact before its brought up, that if 10 thousand people downloaded FOF for free... that'd be a huge dent in profit... but if 10 thousand people downloaded a successful new artist' album, it wouldn't even be noticed.

They sell millions, while most games, especially independant games sell in the thousands.

[AgPete]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Ummmm.....I sure didn't delete it. I saw it earlier this morning. Is it gone now?

I got this message while trying to open it:

There seems to have been a slight problem with the Front Office Football Central database.

I guess the software or my computer is just acting a little itchy.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by AgPete
I got this message while trying to open it:

There seems to have been a slight problem with the Front Office Football Central database.

I guess the software or my computer is just acting a little itchy.

Actually I just went there and got the same error message. I didn't put two-and-two together immediately, but something IS going on here. It seems that Ksyrup was the last person to post in that thread. Well, guess who sent me an e-mail a couple of hours ago telling me he can't get on the board at ALL? Yes, Ksyrup. I'm not sure what the deal is.

[Alan T]

Originally posted by Bishop
It's not about if its right or wrong, the whole point is your affecting the poor person more...

I still think it is a rationalization made by people to feel better about stuff they do. No one wants to think they are a bad person, or do bad things, or wrong things.

People rationalize daily...
Oh Speeding on the interstate is no big deal, every one does it.
Its not a huge deal if I don't pay this bill on time.
I'll just fudge this number in my taxes, no one will notice.


Taking something that someone else has created and stealing it whether literature, music, software, it is the same idea, it is someone else's creation that was not given to you. Any attempt to say that you by yourself won't matter is just rationalization to why its not a bad thing that you are stealing.

Like I said before though, I am not perfect, I speed and rationalize that all the time. And I don't care who steals who's music or literature, or whatever. Just dont steal any that belongs to my company.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
I'll say this much... how did musicians make money before they had the ability to sell recorded music?

Maybe they should stick to that, and let whatever other mechanisms that exist to make them more popular be.

Comparing it to software piracy is apples-and-oranges, my friend.

I think they performed before the king/queen and wrote operas and things like that

I like the argument by some musicians (probably not a majority these days) that it's about the art, not the money. Well, maybe we should just pay musicians through National Endowment for the Arts grants then, and make the art freely available for all to enjoy.

Ok, so that really wouldn't work. But I really wouldn't mind Hollywood and the music industry having a major come-uppance that shows those folks they aren't worth nearly what they think they are (baseball and football players are much more important )

[mrskippy]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Actually I just went there and got the same error message. I didn't put two-and-two together immediately, but something IS going on here. It seems that Ksyrup was the last person to post in that thread. Well, guess who sent me an e-mail a couple of hours ago telling me he can't get on the board at ALL? Yes, Ksyrup. I'm not sure what the deal is.

Bwahahahahahhaha ... bwahahahhahahaha ... Hillary Rosen has struck at FOFC.

[Easy Mac]

well allow me to counter with this:

You have a VCR and a blank tape. Have you not recorded a TV show or movie from the TV? Isn't this the same thing as downloading music? I pay for internet access just like I pay for cable. You are stealing the show or the movie from the network, cutting back on their money supply from ads by not needing to watch re-runs. Do you consider that ok. I'm not re-selling the music downloaded. How are the 2 different?

Oh, and considering I have the entire Macromedia MX line for free on my computer, I'm OK with cutting corners every now and then. And if I hadn't found CM97/98 on the internet (which always crashed after 6 seasons for some reason), I probably would never have bought CM3, 99/00, 00/01, 01/02, and CM4. I think after spending over $275 on the series, 1 free is ok (hasn;t worked on my comp for 3 years anyway)

[henry296]

Easy Mac,

I would counter with the designed intent of the two various delivery channels.

The cable TV you purchased was designed solely to view TV programming. It was predomination distribution channel of that industry. In fact, since I use Tivo to record my prgrams, I have been given express consent to do so through an agreement with the Cable TV and TiVo.

The internet on the other hand was designed to be a way to exchange information. The owner of the information, in this case, music, determines who has the right to exchange it. CNN has determined that it is okay for people to use the internet presence to get news. The owners of some music has determined that you may not use the internet as a medium to get their information (songs).

The other fine line is additional revenue. By taping the TV show you are not costing the owners any money. If you are Neilson family you would still mention watching the show. Only the Neilson families determine the ratings and therefore the advertising money and the salaries the stars demand. Although the trial method does increase sales, more than likely free downloaded content drives revenues lower overall.

Todd

[Daimyo]

I won't even consider downloading one of Jim's games until he codes multiplayer!

Kidding aside, I would be wary of downloading an executable file because the risk of getting a virus or torjan horse is substantially greater than getting one from a media file.

Techie aside, if the game was offered for sale like TCY or FOF4 I would not download it unless I already owned a license. if I owned a license and somehow lost the ability to play the game for whatever reason (say I lost my code) I would download a cracked version to play (forgetting a moment the techie issue above).

Also if it was a game like FOF2 that was not available for sale in my market I would download it only if I owned a license for a later version.

If I did not already own a license for the game or a license for a later version of the game AND the game or a newer version of the game was available for sale I would NOT download a cracked version. I would buy a license for the latest version.