"The End Ruins the Game"

[terpkristin]

I was talking to SackAttack earlier today about the game for the Nintendo DS, Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time. It's really a great game, up until the final boss.

This is a game where, if you go through like I did, you'll have approximately 100 hit points for each character (Mario & Luigi, baby Mario and baby Luigi have approximately 80 hit points, and they don't fight unless big Mario and big Luigi die). All the bosses prior to the final boss have about 1000 hit points, maximum. The final boss (which has 3 iterations) has about 3,000 hit points per iteration (plus the third iteration can "regenerate" its body parts that have about another 1500 hit points). Today, it took me 1 hour to beat the first iteration of the final boss. It took me about 20 minutes to beat the 2nd iteration, and then, 45 minutes (or more) into fighting the 3rd iteration, my battery died.

To me, this is the epitome of what can ruin an otherwise great game. The game had wonderful flow and sync until I got to the final boss, then the final boss was so out of sync with the rest of the game, I got sick of it. I mean, even in the Final Fantasy games, when I'm trying to run through as quickly as possible, it doesn't take me even an hour to beat the final boss. 2+ hours on a handheld? No, thank you. This game has now been put back in its box and back on the shelf. *IF* I pick it up again, it won't be for a fairly long time. This is also the second game lately that the ending has just ruined the game for me. The other game was Zelda: Minish Cap. The final boss just had too many iterations of his form, of doing the EXACT same thing over and over again, I just got really bored by it.

Am I the only one who feels this way about games like this, where an otherwise awesome game has been ruined by the end, what some would argue is the key part? Or am I just lacking patience? Any other games like this with a really stupid final boss?

/tk

[SackAttack]

Sometimes it's a "how you play" thing. I ran into this with the original Skies of Arcadia, and as I told you I struggled with the end boss of M&L: PiT.

With SoA, I had to start the game over before I learned enough about what I did wrong to build characters balanced enough to get past the FIRST boss, let alone the end boss.

With PiT, I just put it down for a month, came back and loaded the same save, and got it done.

The danger for developers is that as many games as I play, anything I put down is at risk of not getting picked back up again. So it's kind of a crapshoot.

[Franklinnoble]

Wow... I haven't played Mario Bros. or Zelda since I was like 14...

I don't remember Bowser being that difficult..

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Wow... I haven't played Mario Bros. or Zelda since I was like 14...

I don't remember Bowser being that difficult..

Your second statement only proves the first.

She wasn't fighting Bowser.

[JS19]

I will go with The Godfather. Not so much that the final mission is long and tedious, but the fact that after completing it all there is left to do, as far as I know, is take over all the businesses and such. I did enjoy the game for the most part but the ending just seemed to vague and somewhat easy.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I usually never make it to the final boss in games, but there have been times when I have shared your pain.

Even more so than the final mission in Allied Assault, Driver was the one game that stands out the most to me. Great game, loads of fun, decent mission balance. Until the last mission, which was ridiculously difficult. I must have tried it 400 times. It was something like:

Survive 100 suicidal police cars flying at you 5 per second, then drive across town while another 100 police cars kamikaze you and a helicopter shoots rockets at you from above. Complete this three-minute route in 70 seconds, which left not a fraction of time for error even if you weren't being slightly distracted by the hundreds of police cars screaming at you and helicopters shooting nuclear bombs at you from point-blank range. This might sound like exaggeration, but I'm actually probably forgetting a half dozen of the other things that could instantly kill you on this mission.

And this level didn't just beat you. It humiliated you. Oodles of police cars would rocket into you so fast that your car would go sailing hundreds of feet in the air, which of course would switch the game to slowmotion to rub your failure in your face and prolong your pain. Then when you would land--and promptly explode--another dozen or so cars would still continue to crush your car into oblivion as they slammed into your charred and smoking wreck again and again and again, with sirens bursting your ear drums the whole time. It was like some freakish Westworld level where the game took its revenge on you for beating its ass in the first 20-something missions.

It turned me into a raving, drooling, twitching madman for about three days. After 100 tries or so, I managed to survive the initial onslaught a couple of times, but I could never get even halfway across town without either getting destroyed or running out of time. Things got kind of vague after day two, but I think I finally just passed out in front of the tv. My wife threw the game out and got me a memory wipe, but that just dulled the pain. The imprint was too strong. My self esteem still carries the scars to this day.

Come to think of it, I actually met someone a couple of years ago who completed the game once, but they said it happened by accident. A kamikaze police car rammed them so hard that it knocked them off the game map and into some gap in the game world at the edge of the water and the city. They were able to circumvent the game world and complete the mission.

[MJ4H]

God an HOUR?? OK that's absurd. I am certainly glad I don't play these types of boss games anymore.

[TazFTW]

god mode.

[Daimyo]

I remember the opposite experience in FF6... there was some combination of items that could easily get a character to 9,999 HP, a weapon that did damage based on the amount of HP the wielder had, and another combination of items that allowed you to do like 4 or 8 attacks... if you combined it all you could kill the main boss in one or two rounds.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I remember the opposite experience in FF6... there was some combination of items that could easily get a character to 9,999 HP, a weapon that did damage based on the amount of HP the wielder had, and another combination of items that allowed you to do like 4 or 8 attacks... if you combined it all you could kill the main boss in one or two rounds.

Well, Final Fantasy has always swung wildly in terms of difficulty of later game enemies. Square hasn't been able to balance for crap since FF4.

I still have never beaten the last mission of Advance Wars 2- I'm damn good at the AW series but that just looks like such an insane challenge and you're on a turn limit, to boot.

SI

[Ragone]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I remember the opposite experience in FF6... there was some combination of items that could easily get a character to 9,999 HP, a weapon that did damage based on the amount of HP the wielder had, and another combination of items that allowed you to do like 4 or 8 attacks... if you combined it all you could kill the main boss in one or two rounds.

ah yes.. knights of the round

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Ragone

ah yes.. knights of the round

That was FF7

Final Fantasy 6 (3 in the US) was the game that let you cast 4 Ultimas in 1 turn for just 2 MP total if you have the right characters and the right combination of relics.

[BrianD]

I thought the ending for Gun ruined the rest of the game. In the later stages of the game, it got very easy to be too accurate and deadly, but the end guy couldn't be shot. You had to find the trick to beat him which meant shooting different objects and specific times.

Games that abandon all the skills they have been teaching you throughout the game and have a trick to being able to beat the end guy ruin the rest of the game for me.

[tanglewood]

KOTOR II is the be all and end all of crappy endings ruining otherwise excellent games. It just SUCKED, especially since how it was better than the first KOTOR up until about 4/5ths through.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

KOTOR II is the be all and end all of crappy endings ruining otherwise excellent games. It just SUCKED, especially since how it was better than the first KOTOR up until about 4/5ths through.

i agree. i actually shut it off and reloaded it because i though i missed something and wanted to play it over again to see if the crappiness was a result of something i did or part of the game

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

KOTOR II is the be all and end all of crappy endings ruining otherwise excellent games. It just SUCKED, especially since how it was better than the first KOTOR up until about 4/5ths through.

I was just about to post it. It really sucks, because in many ways, it improved upon the original KOTOR (different characters reacted differently to the same action, the morality wasnt so black and white, Kreia was a wonderful character) - but the game just flat out died - there was no ending that made the buildup worthwhile. I'm thinking of buying the PC version just so I can use the Restoration project (they're trying to put back all the unfinished elements in the game, becase LucasArts is full of dickeads) and play it as it was meant to be.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

KOTOR II is the be all and end all of crappy endings ruining otherwise excellent games. It just SUCKED, especially since how it was better than the first KOTOR up until about 4/5ths through.

The Restoration Project (or whatever they are calling themselves) seems like they are getting close (they've been working on it for over a year, and it looks like it might be done in the next few months) to restoring the cut material that made up the end of the game. Once this is done, I think this will greatly alleviate this concern. Their website is team-gizka . com (or maybe .org)

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

The Restoration Project (or whatever they are calling themselves) seems like they are getting close (they've been working on it for over a year, and it looks like it might be done in the next few months) to restoring the cut material that made up the end of the game. Once this is done, I think this will greatly alleviate this concern. Their website is team-gizka . com (or maybe .org)

Yeah I found that a few months ago and it seems they've made some good progress since. Part of me is skeptical that they can get it as good as it was meant to be/could have been, but if they manage to get even half-way close it'll convince me to play through the game a second time.

[gstelmack]

The original KOTOR did this to me. I just could NOT beat the final boss. Great game to that point, but I never did finish it. And then when everyone tells you how they DID beat it, they were all "gaming" the system, probably the only place that you had to "game" rather than just play it out and fight.

Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe cut me off somewhere in the middle. I got to the Midway mission, which had something like 3 stages. I finally managed to beat the first two, but they often took multiple tries. #3 was pretty much impossible. But the big issue was that at least on the Xbox, you couldn't save mid-mission, which meant I couldn't save after beating the first two stages. So if I wanted to complete this mission, I had to play for over an hour before even ATTEMPTING that third stage, let alone trying over and over to beat it. And with two young kids, I just can't devote 2+ hours to a single gaming session all that often. So it's been put down.

[tucker342]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

KOTOR II is the be all and end all of crappy endings ruining otherwise excellent games. It just SUCKED, especially since how it was better than the first KOTOR up until about 4/5ths through.

Yep, completely agreed.


Incredibly disappointing ending.

[Ragone]

that reminds me of a ff game with some undead lord who had a shield who protected him.. i didn't have reflect (due to my own stupidity heh) so the battle took.. 3 hours.. and 97 phoenix down.. but i did it

[IMetTrentGreen]

although it didnt ruin the game by any stretch, i didnt like how weird and japanese resident evil 4 got at the castle part. the part up until then, in the villiage, was probably the only gaming experience to which i'd give a 100 out of 100, one other possibly being up until you're kicked out of la in grand theft auto: san andreas

the lab part on the island was cool, too, but the whipser-chanting monks being led by a zombie napolean was a bit too much for me, after the excellent first half of the game

as far as endings, half-life was one that dissapointed me. the game was one of the best i've ever played, and the ending stunk, plot-wise

[bob]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I just can't devote 2+ hours to a single gaming session all that often. So it's been put down.

That's how I felt with Voodoo Vince - the last level was insane, and if you screwed anything up or had to turn the system off, you had to do it all over again.

There was one jump that I just couldn't make. Why ruin a game for your customers?