Brokeback Mountain

[JW]

Perhaps the weirdest thing related to the movie has been the flap over Gene Shalit's negative review. Gene Shalit controversial? This just shows how sensitive people are regarding this movie.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060112/en_movies_eo/18139

Shalit Sorry for "Brokeback" Bash By Josh Grossberg
Thu Jan 12, 4:17 PM ET

Gene Shalit doesn't typically respond to reviews of his reviews. But that was before the Great Brokeback Mountain Brouhaha.

The veteran Today Show film critic wrote a note expressing regret for a thumbs-down review of the Oscar hopeful that angered many in the gay community.

But it wasn't the negative notice of the gay cowboy flick that had drawn complaints; it was his description of one of the film's character.

Shalit sought to clarify his critique in a letter of apology to the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, stating that in no way did he mean any offense by labeling Jake Gyllenhaal's Jack a "sexual predator" who "tracks Ennis [ Heath Ledger] down and coaxes him into sporadic trysts." (Shalit went on to praise the acting of Ledger, however.)

"In describing the behavior of Jack, I used words ('sexual predator') that I now discover have angered, agitated and hurt many people," Shalit wrote. "I did not intend to use a word that many in the gay community consider incendiary...I certainly had no intention of casting aspersions on anyone in the gay community or on the community itself. I regret any emotional hurt that may have resulted from my review of Brokeback Mountain."

GLAAD issued a statement of its own applauding the mustachioed movie reviewer's mea culpa.

"[GLAAD] thanks and applauds Mr. Shalit for charifying his comments and making clear in his statement that his words were not intended to be defamatory to the LGBT community," the organization said.

Last week, GLAAD ripped Shalit for the review, which aired during his "Critic's Choice" segment last Thursday, saying the reviewer promoted "defamatory anti-gay prejudice to a national audience," and issued an action alert urging its supporters to call NBC and complain.

According to the group, the "bizarre characterization of Jack as a 'predator' and Ennis as a victim reflected a fundamental lack of understanding about the central relationship in the film and gay relationships in general...It seems highly doubtful that Shalit would similarly claim that Titanic's Jack ( Leonardo DiCaprio) was a 'sexual predator' because he was pursuing a romantic relationship with Rose ( Kate Winslet)."

On Monday, Shalit's gay son, physician and author Peter Shalit, wrote a letter of his own to GLAAD defending his father.

"He had no idea that his review of a movie, and his reaction to a particular character, would be seen as homophobia. Of course he is not homophobic," said the younger Shalit. "Agreed, he didn't particularly seem to like Brokeback Mountain, and he found the character of Jack unsympathetic. But his negative response to a particular character is not 'defamation' and had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the character.

"Incidentally, I loved the movie--and it sure isn't the first time I disagreed with my dad about one of his reviews," Peter Shalit continued, adding that he felt compelled to write after talking to friends and seeing the "buzz online," in which some "bloggers are talking about [the elder Shalit] as if he's an enemy of gay people."

"We are all really on the same side," the younger Shalit summed up.

Gene Shalit's diss aside, Brokeback Mountain is shaping up to be the movie to beat at this year's Academy Awards. The film dominated the Critics' Choice Awards this week, including a win for Best Picture. It has also been named Best Picture by both the Los Angeles Film Critics Association and the New York Film Critics Circle, was selected as one of 2005's 10 best by the American Film Institute and is up for key prizes at the Independent Spirit Awards, as well as the writers, producers and actors guilds.

Brokeback's truest test for Oscar viability will come Monday, when it competes for a leading seven Golden Globes. Nominations for the Academy Awards will be announced on Jan. 31.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

...because God knows gays don't have any reason to be touchy about being called 'sexual predators'. Ya know, that whole myth that pedophiles and the gays are one and the same.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JW

Perhaps the weirdest thing related to the movie has been the flap over Gene Shalit's negative review. Gene Shalit controversial? This just shows how sensitive people are regarding this movie.

I agree with Jesse. He has the right of it here. There have been a handful of negative reviews of this film that have drawn no "flap" at all.

[Whar]

I really have not paid much attention to Brokeback Mountain but this thread got me to take a quick look at its numbers and Brokeback is a remarkable success everywhere it is being shown.

It is in extremely limited release with only 484 screens compared to Fun with Dick and Jane at 3182. It is averaging a stunning $11,800 per screen since release compared to say Narnia release on the same day having a $4,452. Having grossed over $26 million to date and not yet in general release people are going to have a hard time argueing this movie is nothing but a success.

[Huckleberry]

[disclaimer]I only read the first and last page of this thread so far[/disclaimer]

I have heard of this movie being discussed in exactly three places now.

1.) Morning talk show where they're cracking jokes.
2.) Afternoon sports talk show where they're cracking jokes wihle also semi-seriously reviewing it
3.) Here

I must be paying attention to the wrong media outlets

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Whar

I really have not paid much attention to Brokeback Mountain but this thread got me to take a quick look at its numbers and Brokeback is a remarkable success everywhere it is being shown.

It is in extremely limited release with only 484 screens compared to Fun with Dick and Jane at 3182. It is averaging a stunning $11,800 per screen since release compared to say Narnia release on the same day having a $4,452. Having grossed over $26 million to date and not yet in general release people are going to have a hard time argueing this movie is nothing but a success.

It's only playing on "art screens" up here, and Mrs. A. and I had trouble finding a show that was not sold out. We ended up at a Saturday 1:00 show that was still full.

So from what I have seen, it is not on a lot of screens. But, it is selling out the screens on which it is playing.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Jesse_Ewiak

...because God knows gays don't have any reason to be touchy about being called 'sexual predators'. Ya know, that whole myth that pedophiles and the gays are one and the same.

I'm a perpetrator of that "myth" I guess. I understand the argument that the label doesn't apply. I just have a hard time believing that a guy who sexually abuses teenage boys isn't gay.


Haven't seen the movie, but I'm interested in doing so(I'm a closet Heath Ledger fan). It's just way down on the list of movies I want to see.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Whar

It is in extremely limited release with only 484 screens compared to Fun with Dick and Jane at 3182. It is averaging a stunning $11,800 per screen since release compared to say Narnia release on the same day having a $4,452. Having grossed over $26 million to date and not yet in general release people are going to have a hard time argueing this movie is nothing but a success.

To be fair, as was stated earlier, you can't compare this film to Narnia or Dick and Jane. If Narnia were released on 484 screens it would probably average at least $11,800 per screen if not more. If this movie were released on more screens, it might not earn $4,452 per screen.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I'm a perpetrator of that "myth" I guess. I understand the argument that the label doesn't apply. I just have a hard time believing that a guy who sexually abuses teenage boys isn't gay.


Haven't seen the movie, but I'm interested in doing so(I'm a closet Heath Ledger fan). It's just way down on the list of movies I want to see.

No. No. No. You've got it all wrong....The myth that's being talked about is not that pedophiles are gay, it's that all gays are pedophiles....which is silly.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Where's Bubba? HE disappeared when he started seeing that the numbers wouldnt bear out his ridiculous theory (which I think is inapplicable) regardless...what he going to feel like when this movie turns a profit and continues to get nominsated for awards? Does that mean America wants to be gay? So ridiculous.

Wait, you mean Bubba started a senseless argument based on his hatred for gays and didn't stick around? I'm sure we'll also see him leaving the thread about Iran he started...or rather his "everyone should go to church because" thread.

[JW]

Originally Posted by Jesse_Ewiak

...because God knows gays don't have any reason to be touchy about being called 'sexual predators'. Ya know, that whole myth that pedophiles and the gays are one and the same.

Funny, I had never heard of a gay sexual predator stereotype until GLAAD brought it up by attacking Shalit's interview. BTW, Shalit stands by his review if you read the transcript of his letter to GLAAD. He simply regrets the sexual predator statement.

And I had never heard of the pedophiles and gays being one and the same myth until you brought it up.

And on a related subject, the movie is doing much better than I thought it would, fwiw. Seems it is a very well done movie, and of course the controversy has surely helped it, as with all controversial movies. A friend just went to see the movie today and emailed me that it is one of the best movies she has ever seen. She said she cried a lot. I will take her word over any reviewer.

She did say that she would like to be in the lake between the actors in some skinny dipping scene, if that makes sense to anyone who has seen it. But I'm not sure if that is in keeping with the spirit of the movie.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by John Galt

So, JW has made it clear, he really does only get his information from O'Reilly, World Net Daily, and the like. Really, the War on Christmas story is quite silly and full of lies (including many of the allegations made against Plano).

I'm sure Plano itself is conservative, if you're talking about the people that live in its neighborhoods. But JW is correct to point out that Plano is in the heart of the Dallas metroplex, part of an area that includes millions of people from all walks of life. It envelops one of Dallas' most commercial areas.

It is disingenious of anyone to toss out Plano, Texas as a place that represents small town Texas. It simply does not.

[Daimyo]

I saw it over the Christmas holiday and thought it was very good. It is probably the best movie take on the whole forbidden love genre that I've ever seen.

[Super Ugly]

I just came back from seeing it. It's very, very good.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

(I'm a closet Heath Ledger fan).

Pardon the pun, right?

[Loren]

havent read any of the posts buttt all i gotta say is im dying to see this movie, well maybe not DYING but i wanna pretty bad..and none of the theatres down here are showing itjerks
in about a month though the one independent theatre we have is planning to show it, ill be there

[ISiddiqui]

Basically swept the Golden Globes... probably is a show-in for Best Picture Oscar as well... wonder if BW's head will blow off his shoulders?

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Loren

havent read any of the posts buttt all i gotta say is im dying to see this movie, well maybe not DYING but i wanna pretty bad..and none of the theatres down here are showing itjerks
in about a month though the one independent theatre we have is planning to show it, ill be there

Are you bringing Cringer?

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I'm a perpetrator of that "myth" I guess. I understand the argument that the label doesn't apply. I just have a hard time believing that a guy who sexually abuses teenage boys isn't gay.

Then you are going against every study that has been done on the subject. Pedophiles are overwhelmingly "straight" when it comes to their preferences for adults. The fact that they often prefer young boys too is uncorrelated to their adult preference.

As for the main topic in the thread. I saw the movie a couple weeks ago. It reminds me of most other Ang Lee movies. It is extremely good at expressing love in terms of sorrow and regret. It isn't quite as good at the joy of love. But overall, it was a very good movie.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Basically swept the Golden Globes... probably is a show-in for Best Picture Oscar as well... wonder if BW's head will blow off his shoulders?

'
Duh, don't you understand - it means everyone who watches it is a gay liberal who's going to hell!

[jeff061]

I just lump it in with The English Patients of the world. Critically acclaimed chick flicks I have no interest in.

[ISiddiqui]

Chick flick?

[Subby]

Weekend Box Office Estimates (U.S.) Jan 20 - 22 weekend

Archived Charts: Select a weekend most recent weekend Jan 13 - 15, 2006 Jan 6 - 8, 2006 Dec 30 - Jan 1, 2006 Dec 23 - 25, 2005 Dec 16 - 18, 2005 Dec 9 - 11, 2005 Dec 2 - 4, 2005 Nov 25 - 27, 2005 Nov 18 - 20, 2005 Nov 11 - 13, 2005 Nov 4 - 6, 2005 Oct 29 - 30, 2005 Oct 22 - 24, 2005 Oct 15 - 17, 2005

This Wk	Last Wk	Title	Dist.	Weekend Gross	Cumulative Gross	Rlse Wks	# of Theaters
1	-	Underworld: Evolution	Screen Gems	$27,600,000	$27,600,000	1	3207
2	3	Hoodwinked	N/A	$11,078,000	$29,304,000	2	3002
3	1	Glory Road	Buena Vista Pictures Distribution	$9,135,000	$28,075,000	2	2396
4	2	Last Holiday	Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures	$9,100,000	$26,385,000	2	2514
5	9	Brokeback Mountain	N/A	$7,832,000	$42,131,000	7	1196
6	6	Fun With Dick and Jane	Sony Pictures Releasing	$6,100,000	$101,717,000	5	2826
7	4	The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe	Buena Vista Pictures Distribution	$6,067,000	$271,682,000	7	2757
8	-	End of the Spear	Jungle Films	$4,712,000	$4,712,000	1	1163
9	5	Hostel	Lions Gate Releasing	$4,300,000	$42,728,000	3	2258
10	-	The New World	N/A	$4,250,000	$4,440,000	5	811
11	7	King Kong	Universal Pictures Distribution	$4,134,000	$209,788,000	6	2205
12	8	Tristan & Isolde	Twentieth Century Fox	$3,300,000	$11,936,000	2	1845

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Then you are going against every study that has been done on the subject. Pedophiles are overwhelmingly "straight" when it comes to their preferences for adults. The fact that they often prefer young boys too is uncorrelated to their adult preference.

So they are not gay, but bisexual?

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

So they are not gay, but bisexual?

No. Most scholars consider pedophilia independent of a male/female preference. Some pedophiles like both boys and girls. Some only like boys. Less only like girls. No matter what their orientation is toward kids, their orientation toward adults is largely uncorrelated.

Various anti-gay groups try to argue that gays are more often pedophiles, but their "studies" are circular. They treat all male-to-boy sexual conduct (by far the most common form of pedophilia) as "gay." Therefore, they conclude gays overwhelmingly constitute pedophiles. This, however, is in sharp contrast to the relevant scienfitic communities who all agree that adult orientation is not really correlated to orientation toward a sex of a child.

In other words, a hetero man who molests boys is not "bi." He is "hetero" and a "pedophile" who prefers boys.

[Karlifornia]

I saw Brokeback Mountain this afternoon, partially at the request of my mother (54 years old) and partially because I wanted to see it. The movie was great. My mom loved it. I consider myself an open-minded person living in the supposed "liberal haven" that is the San Francisco Bay Area. This preconception amuses me, because I could not get any of my friends to go see this, male or female. This place is as closed-minded as rural Kentucky, West Virginia, or Alabama.

To hammer home the point I was trying to make, the first sex scene between the two leads made me cringe. I wasn't ready for a portrayl of homosexuality that honest or blunt. It just happened. There was no warning "Get ready for some homosexual sex!!" or anything like that. At that moment, I realized that I wasn't as "open-minded" as I thought I was.

The movie more than kept my attention for the 2+ hours running time. Ang Lee's directing, Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal's acting, and whoever did the music's composing were phenomenal. The music and cinematography really put this movie over the top. I have never cried in the theater, but my eyes watered at the end when you know who opened up his closet and looked at memorabilia from Brokeback Mountain.

I implore everyone to see this movie. Homophobes would be wise to see this movie. If you don't think this took guts to make this movie, then you're wrong. I wouldn't have made this movie. Nobody I know would have made this movie. It's a movie that needed to be made.


After seeing it, I disagree with Flasch when he said this movie;s only purpose was monetary. 30 years from now, this movie will be looked upon as a groundbreaking classic.

[Flasch186]

when I said that, I dont mean it in a bad way. If the movie lost its ass financially I guarantee that the genre would be darkened for years to come. Finances ALWAYS override everything else. Once you get past that point, show profit, you can talk about other things but all the promotion Awards hype (that many times the Studio starts) are in an effort to clear that first hurdle.

[biological warrior]

I have no interests at all in seeing this movie, thus I will keep my opinions to myself.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I just lump it in with The English Patients of the world. Critically acclaimed chick flicks I have no interest in.

ditto

[Desnudo]

Does anyone else smile every morning when they see Brokeback Mountain/Bubba Wheels? I've probably read two sentencs in here, but I certainly enjoy seeing a Brokeback Mountain thread bumped up to the top everyday on FOFC. KUTGW!

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by RadioFriendlyUnitShifter

To hammer home the point I was trying to make, the first sex scene between the two leads made me cringe. I wasn't ready for a portrayl of homosexuality that honest or blunt. It just happened. There was no warning "Get ready for some homosexual sex!!" or anything like that. At that moment, I realized that I wasn't as "open-minded" as I thought I was.

Even if you think homosexual sex is disgusting, it doesn't make you closed minded. What would make you closed minded was if you tried to forbid homosexual sex because it's caused by the devil.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Even if you think homosexual sex is disgusting, it doesn't make you closed minded. What would make you closed minded was if you tried to forbid homosexual sex because it's caused by the devil.

And the above, the quote you were referrring to, that's what I take issue with. And, while it's pretty obvious who you're taking a potshot at, how about insert "hate how they act", "think it's unnatural (but I'm not Christian)", or any other number of reasons than "caused by the Devil"

I don't like seeing overweight people, hairy people, mean people, ugly people, and gay people getting it on. Heck, I'm not sure if it's this thread or another, but I've already said I don't really like sex scenes in most movies because they screw up the flow of the movie just to get some guys who get off on thinking sex 24/7 into the theater.

Back to the point before, I don't think that not wanting to see sex scenes with the aforementioned groups of people affects my interactions with them. It just means I don't want to see them having sex. And, frankly, anyone who thinks that makes me a racist, sexist, or whatever is just full of crap and, frankly, I don't appreciate it.

Again, just because you don't want to see two guys having sex doesn't mean you hate gay people. It means you don't want to see two guys having sex because that's not your sexual preference. But, unless sex is the driving factor of why you get out of bed in the morning, that shouldn't affect any interactions with that person as you're not the one having sex with them anyway.

SI

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Again, just because you don't want to see two guys having sex doesn't mean you hate gay people. It means you don't want to see two guys having sex because that's not your sexual preference. But, unless sex is the driving factor of why you get out of bed in the morning, that shouldn't affect any interactions with that person as you're not the one having sex with them anyway.

You know, sometimes things just happen.

hxxp://www.theonion.com/content/node/33540

[ThunderingHERD]

Finally saw Brokeback last night. Good movie. Great performance by Heath Ledger. Jake Gylenhaal, though, was quite boring and inspired zero sympathy in me. I cared more about what happened to Ennis' wife and kids than what happened to Jack.

[Izulde]

I finally saw this movie the other night and I thought it was really good. Does it have its flaws? Yes, principally in that every now and then the flow of the movie doesn't seem as smooth as it should be, but overall I immensely enjoyed it.

Heath Ledger's range has really expanded. I'm so used to seeing him as the pretty boy hero type in his movies that I was amazed to see how well he pulled off the gruff, taicturn, masculine cowboy in this film.

I liked Jake G. a little better in Jarhead but I thought he was good here as well.

Mmm Anne Hathaway.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Then you are going against every study that has been done on the subject. Pedophiles are overwhelmingly "straight" when it comes to their preferences for adults. The fact that they often prefer young boys too is uncorrelated to their adult preference.
...

Mainly, I'm just going against you JG.
I just think at some level that if you like little boys, then you like boys.

[path12]

Just saw the movie this weekend. Very good, not great. Ledger was fantastic though....I believed his character much more than Gylenhaal. Didn't see what all the fuss was about, but I have no problem with who wants to be with who.....