Barry making an ass of himself
 

He is doing what I think is a live news conference right now on ESPN. I've always been fairly indifferent to him, but he is coming across really badly today. I'm finding myself actively disliking him now.

Dola -

Actually, now it appears that this news conference might have been earlier today.

Slugger sidesteps questions, chastises media
Associated Press

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. – Barry Bonds angrily sidestepped questions about his role in baseball's steroid scandal upon his arrival at spring training Tuesday, pronouncing himself weary but ready for another season.

In the 40-year-old Bonds' first public comments since his grand jury testimony was leaked to the San Francisco Chronicle and reported in December, he had nothing to say about it, citing legal constrictions. But he had harsh words for the media and fans still consumed by the circumstances of his record-setting home run binge.

"You guys are like re-running stories," Bonds said to the huge group of reporters in attendance. "This is old stuff. It's like watching 'Sanford and Son.' ... It's almost comical, basically."

Bonds, who has 703 homers, also is on the verge of catching Babe Ruth on baseball's career list.

"The sad part, I just want to go out there and play baseball," Bonds said. "I don't even care about the record part so much. The best is whatever you get out of yourself. That's all I'm trying to do."

According to that grand jury testimony, Bonds testified in December 2003 that he used a clear substance and a cream given to him by a trainer who was indicted in a steroid-distribution ring, but said he didn't know they were steroids.

Bonds repeatedly refused to speak directly about it, but he castigated everyone from the media to Jose Canseco, whose recently released book described a rampant culture of steroid abuse in baseball.

"I don't know Canseco, besides hello and goodbye. I don't put any weight into what he says," Bonds said. "Mark McGwire was a big boy in college. To me, Canseco, you've got to come with a whole lot more. ... It's to make a buck, that's all it is.

"I don't know Jose. I was better than Jose then, and I've been better than him his whole career. If he wants to go make money, go ahead. ... For somebody who brags about what he did, I don't see any of your records."

He's such a bitter man.

must be the steroids

Where's SkyDog? :D

Does he look visibly smaller?

he still deserves some props though - after all, he's hit more homers than any other steroid user in the history of the game.

He sounds like a man who is very insecure about how his testicles have shrunk to almost nothing due to excessive steroid usage.

Is there anything more fun than watching an athelete play the "there's no story here" card? Apparently there are only 100 people in the world who care about this story, and they all happen to be reporters covering Giants spring training.

Looked alot less bloated in the face to me, but maybe I'm just looking for it now.

BTW - one reporter asked him directly if he took steriods and a Giants staff person stepped in and said 'he's not answering that'.

Classic.

Agreed. If they can pull that shit on Roger Maris (and he did NOTHING wrong), Barry ought to have one.

Bonds fan and all I can't argue with that.

Who is to say that steroids haven't been used in earlier eras...my dad heard about steroids when he was in middle school in the 50's, and when he asked his gym teacher, he got really defensive.

Also, I'm not trying to defend Bonds or any other steroid user. But, I would like to know if steroids were against the rules in baseball. I know they didn't test, but was it against the rules.

Either way, I for one am against an asterisk. History will always remember the situation of the athletes of the 90's and early 2000's. Ruth doesn't have asterisks, but people still talk about how he didn't compete against the black athlete. Gibson doesn't have an asterisk because the mound has since been lowered, and McClain doesn't get 5 games knocked off of his Win total either. Look, technoligy advances and rules are changed and altered in response. We have better capabilities of protection, allowing batters to more fearlessly crowd the plate. We have legal supplements that athletes of the past had no access to. It's a changing world and a changing game. I'm a traditionalist more so that a progressive in baseball, but at the same time, we can't say that the only thing that changed between Ruth and Bonds, or even Aaron and Bonds is steroids.

Possessing steroids is a crime (unless prescribed by a doctor for official medical purposes.) Anyone that benefited from an illegal activity should not be viewed as the greatest ever. At the very least, Barry deserves an Asterik.

So, should someone who illegally obtains adderol to study for a test have his grade stricken? I have never done that, but know some who have, with and without a perscription. Just where do you end up drawing the line. I mean, right now the only thing we have is illegally obtained testimony that says that Bonds unknowingly took the cream and the clear. We can guess that he probably did take it, and probably willingly. But I could probably also guess that McGwire, Sosa, Greg Vaughn, and Brady Anderson did as well...what do we do with them? I say, forget the past, get a hard steroid testing policy (like the olympics), and give people at most two strikes with the first strike a year suspension without pay.

Also, steroids or not, he isn't the best ever.

Were amphetamines legal back when every player took them?

Just saw the press conference on ESPN. Bonds' face did look slimmer to me, as well.

Asteriks are such a stupid idea. I love stats and records as much as anyone, but the players play the game and produce the stats. They are what they are. Who am I, or you, or a sportswriter to interpret them differently based on whatever factors are currently going on? Should we put an ampersand for players who played during WWI and WWII because the talent pool was thinned out? Maybe put an "@" by players who used "greenies." And put plus signs by teams that may have won World Series with players who used "greenies" on their rosters. I just don't see how you can change stats--they are what they are.

lol, his face didn't look slimmer at all. He looks the same. If you've ever seen Barry with his shirt off, you knows hes kinda fat. Although he does have muscle on his arms and shoulders. I think you guys are trying to hard. I would endorse an * if he sucks this year. Then it would be obvious that he used steroids more than a couple of times. I would just wait it out, see what happens this year and then make conclusions about how hes the only one in the MLB and only his stats should have a *.

Using Adderall is a crime if done without a doctor's prescription. Adderall is abused by thousands if not tens of thousands of college students. I don't think they should have their grades counting if they abused stimulants (any non-medical use is abuse.) Why should I or any student who didn't cheat and use stimulants be compared unfairly to those students who did cheat by committing a crime?

I think Bonds took Steroids knowingly. I don't believe any world class athlete would dare to allow substances to be given to him without knowing what that substance was. I also think McGwire, Sosa, and Anderson all likely cheated as well. I think the power numbers of the entire era need an asterik and this has seriously dampened my joy of baseball.

Dola -

I'm not saying that an official asterik has to be placed. I think in my mind (and I would guess quite a few other fans), there is an asterik. The fact is that this is stain on baseball even if there are plenty of people who don't care.

Hey, would any of you guys object to using an asterisk instead? ;)

Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. :)

Why does anyone think that he would stop usnig them? He is at the end of his career and if he is using them, and they are what has helped him keep his career going, why would he stop using them.

The benefit would be greater if he wer to take his chances. If he were to stop and then suddenly turn out a Giambi type of season, his career would have a permanent black mark. Everyone would point to that and say he didn;t deserve the numbers.

If he gets caught, he retires. His supporters will then continue the whole, he still needed the skill to do it crap (though not taking into accuont the fact that his last X number of years have included no extended slumps due to being worn down, which any player not taking steroids has happen. Especially odd for someone his age to not have any of those instances).

My bad. :redface:

One of our instructors at work calls them "astridges." Now THAT'S annoying.

I've always said that I really think that he wouldn't have done it voluntarily or at least knowingly. Maybe that makes me naive. But, I really don't believe that the godson of Willie Mays and son of Bobby Bonds - who grew up respecting the sport and around the greats, would feel the need to knowingly cheat.

If he uses steroids now - and I don't believe he is - he'd take the risk of getting caught and then having them castigate him. Does he care about that? Hell no. But he does care about his family and I doubt he'd want to see them go through that, having his name dragged in the mud.

And even if he did, all the people we're talking about aren't playing baseball right now. So, if McGwire, Canseco and Giambi (well, he's playing..but that's nominal at best) were playing, then you could argue that it's helped him be a better player than say, the rest of MLB. But if so many players are supposedly juiced, why aren't they doing what Barry has?

Because he's better. Not best of all time. But better.

Of course not. But since Mickey Mantle who was beloved took them, he gets a pass, but Bonds, who isn't liked, gets raked over the coals. Forget the fact that both greenies in the 50s and steroids in the 90s were not banned, even though they were illegal.

If you put an asterisk by Bonds, be consistent. Go put one on Mantle and Mays and the rest of the 50s and 60s crew.

thank you, they should put one on McGuire too because of the stuff he took.

I will continue rooting for Bonds. I enjoy following the Giants so much that I refuse to allow these rumors to taint the experience.

I will let history judge Barry and cheer like hell every time he comes to the plate.

Why not? It's always fun to root for the bad guy.

Bonds is a cheater and a first-rate prick, and I won't hesitate to say so. I don't want my kids to idolize that asswad or grow up to be like him, so I sure as hell won't root for him.

I will too and I'm not a Giants fan. Bonds is a helluva talent and always has been.

Everyone knows that steroids have been a part of baseball for a long time. MLB buried their head in the sand. MLBPA did the same. I think that Ken Caminiti was right - at least 50% of the guys were/are on something. I also think that players in the 50s were on amphetamines. Players in the 70s on coke. Players in the 30s didn't have to face black players. So on and so forth. Baseball has always been this way. I just accept it.

There was never any asterisk on Maris' record.

Really, the only story here is if Bonds and his BALCO boys were the only players using.

If the number is even 20 or 30%, which doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility, then the real story is that MLB covered this up in order to juice the hitting stats and attendance.

But something I've rarely heard in these arguments is the fact that steroids are available to pitchers too.

This is something that is rarely talked about, because the correlation between steroids and results is harder to "see" in pitchers, I guess.

One of things I've always wondered about, given the fact that steroids might have made a big splash in MLB in the 80's, is the decline of 250+ innings starters during the latter half of the 80s. And all of the arm injuries. I've never quite understood how guys who came up in the late 60's and 70's had arms that could go 300 innings year, and then all of a sudden, guys couldn't throw more than 200+ innings for a couple of years without needing surgery starting in the 80's and on through until now.

Maybe that's a coincidence, but maybe building up the muscles in the arms takes its toll in ways that are less obvious.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in my book there's a big difference between taking a legal substance (that was not against the rules at the time) and an illegal substance.

If it comes out that McGwire or anyone else took illegal steroids then they should be treated differently.

And even if 50% of the players were taking illegal steroids, we shouldn't do anything about it (asterick's etc.) unless we have proof. If there's proof of Bonds, Giambi, and anyone else from Balco or otherwise, then I firmly support an asterick for illegal cheating.

Y'know, maybe we all just know each other too well or something, but I can't believe I'm the only person who read through this thread & had several flashes of "I knew he would have that position, it's just like him to think that."

Well, if you ask any scout, there are more guys who throw in the 90s (MPH) than ever before. What can we attribute that too other than working out. If working out improves ones ability to pitch (as it is attributed to in the case of say... Roger Clemens), why wouldn't steroids help them too.

People only see one side. The number of strikeouts per year has increased much more than the number of homeruns has in the past 40 years. Mantle used to lead the league with 100 strikeouts. Guys today strike out twice as much. But nobody hits 100 homeruns.

You're one of the only people I've run acroos that seems to want to even entertain the idea, though.

As to the illegal drug-> asterisk argument: It's likely that BALCO was giving these guys designer growth hormone that might not have been scheduled by the FDA. If that's the case, is it okay?

The problem is guys having an unfair advantage over their competition.

If these Balco guys were the only steriod/enhancement, that's a problem.

If they were among a group that made up a large chunk of the players in MLB, then the problem is with MLB.

I agree. I don't recall where I read it, but I swear I just read a story in which it said that the top 21 strikeouts per 9 innings seasons have all been recorded in the past 25 years (relievers included). Or something like that. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing - either pitchers are striking out more guys, because more guys are swinging for the fences, or maybe more guys are striking out because the pitchers are throwing harder than ever before. It's just easier to identify a cause-and-effect relationship when looking at the hitters, I think.

I think it's inter-related. But there's as much evidence that the pitchers are juiced as there is that the batters are.

It's just that people decided without evidence that home runs were out of contraol. Now, they seize on whattever 'evidence' comes up to support their arguments.

It's like the McGwire-Bonds thing. There was just as much circumstancial evidence that Mac was a user. But people like him more than Bonds. So we see who's protected more.

Another one of these arguments is the watered down league argument. First, it doesn't hold water. Next, even if it did, why would only the pitching be watered down.

I think it's inter-related. But there's as much evidence that the pitchers are juiced as there is that the batters are.

It's just that people decided without evidence that home runs were out of contraol. Now, they seize on whattever 'evidence' comes up to support their arguments.

It's like the McGwire-Bonds thing. There was just as much circumstancial evidence that Mac was a user. But people like him more than Bonds. So we see who's protected more.

Another one of these arguments is the watered down league argument. First, it doesn't hold water. Next, even if it did, why would only the pitching be watered down?

That's a really dangerous precedent to set. What if Mark McGwire drove over the speed limit on his way to every game in 1998? What if Sosa bought a new home gym and illegally wrote it off on his taxes? You can't start erasing records based on what a player does in his private life if it doesn't break the rules of the game.

Agreed. If following the law determined whether records were legit, there are a lot of records that wouldn't be recognized. The rules of the game should determine the records.

Talk about a reach. Good lord.

Since there's someone who actually agrees with this ridiculousness, I'll play along.

You sell computers. You're damn good at it. Last month, you sold the most computers, earning you a $1000 bonus and a very nice plaque.

On January 26th, at 8:51 AM, you failed to use your blinker while pulling into a parking space at work. Go give back your bonus and plaque, you law-breaking bastard.

I think that Eaglesfan meant breaking a law to take advantage of a sporting league - not just any law. Pete Rose broke a gambling law and baseball rule that impacted the crediblilty of the sport. As a result he is 'banned' for now from the game and the hall of fame.

In Bonds defense, there was no baseball rule against steriods, but he did (assuming the leaked testimony is true) take an illegal action that took advantage of the sport. Maybe this sounds hypocritical, but since he didn't break the baseball rule, I have no problem with inducting Bonds in the hall of fame. But if he did compromise the game with illegal activities, though I would be in favor of an asterick or some other type of punishment.

If steroids have helped Bonds lengthen his career and put up crazy numbers over the last 3-4 years without getting hurt, then how's Roger Clemens doing the same thing at the same age, but nobody's questioning him?

It's kinda of funny, but people say to compare pictures of Bonds when he was a rookie and now, and look at the difference in his body size. Do the same with Clemens - it looks like he's added 30-40 pounds since his early days.

But people like Clemens and they don't like Bonds, so only one of them is under the microscope (I personally don't like either of them, I just find this situation funny).

Clemens has a well documented off season workout and anyone who knows him is fairly confident in his training. Clemens had good numbers, but really his NYY stats weren't all that impressive. The main reason he dominated so much last year was the move to the NL. Batting in the NL isn't nearly as good, and you get to face a joke batter every time through the lineup. The NL is where tired AL pitchers go to dominate.

Bonds on the other hand was trained by alleged felons, trained with admitted steroid users and puts up eye-popping numbers when nobody else his age does. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

What was the purpose of that whole news conference?

To get people to like him more.

It's never a good idea to say hi to the reporters as you walk up and ask them (Pedro Gomez, specifically) if they are still "lyin'." Just bizarre. This guy must have Michael Jackson's PR firm.

Actually, thank you for proving my point with the above example.

Barry didn't break any baseball rules. Therefore, his records are valid.

I watched 15 minutes of it and came to the conclusion that I'm seeing the angriest and most delusional billionaire on the planet.

Uh, sure everyone loves Clemens. Just ask the guys up in Boston :rolleyes: Alot of people like Giambi, but no one is denying that he took steroids and you can be sure he is under the microscope in NY.

Bonds: customer of Balco, alleged distributor of illegal drugs and steroids.
Bonds: allegedly admits in court to using cream from Balco

Giambi: Customer of Balco
Giambi: admits to taking steroids provided by Balco

Clemens: No evidence of any dealing with steroid providers or admissions in court or otherwise to my knowledge.

Ok, I'll play along, too. Same supposed situation (computer salesman sold most computers, etc.). But instead of the minor infraction that you site, it ends up that he made all his sales by providing computers to a major illegal drug cartel. Now, the company didn't have a rule against selling to drug dealers (and I don't think it is actually illegal), but they thought their employees would have enough sense NOT to tie their company into dealings with criminals, and hurt their image in the community. So, do you think this guy will be fired?

If you compare the NL ERA and HR leaders last year, pitchers putting up numbers like Clemens and the Unit are way more unusual than older hitters putting up numbers.

ERA Leaders - Age
Peavy 23
Johnson 41
Sheets 26
Zambrano 23
Clemens 42
Ol. Perez 23
Pavano 29
Schmidt 32
Leiter 39
Od. Perez 27
Wright 29
Davis 29
Carpenter 29
Oswalt 27
Webb 25

HR Leaders
Beltre 25
Pujols 25
Dunn 25
Bonds 40
Thome 34
Edmonds 34
Alou 38
Burnitz 35
Finley 39
Ramirez 26
Sosa 36
Castilla 37
Rolen 29
Cabrera 21
Bunch tied at No. 15

So only 3 of the top 15 pitchers were older than 32, but 8 of the top 15 HR hitters were older than 32. Not exactly an endorsment for older pitchers being able to clean up in the NL.
The fact that Clemens' lowested ERA in the prevous five seasons was 3.51 (and he was 4.35 or higher twice), then last year at age 41-42 he had 18 wins and a 2.98 ERA makes me go hmmmmm......

As far was workouts, I'm pretty sure Bonds and Clemens both work their asses off. Even if you're on steroids, you don't just stick an needle in your ass and magically add 30 pounds, you still have to work your ass off.

I'm not saying Clemens is on the roids, but I just find it funny that everybody is all over these older hitters cranking out home runs, but nobody bats an eye at 40-year-old pitchers among the league leaders.

Yeah, it is kind of interesting to see all these pitchers still pitch 90 MPH+ after they've hit 40 as well. People can say it's training, but something doesn't seem right. I'm with oykib and saying that a GOOD number of MLB players are using something. If it isn't banned by baseball, I don't see the need for an asterisk, simple as that. Obviously baseball did not think those substances merited banning.

It isn't like baseball is appauled by cheating! If that was the case, Gaylord Perry would be banned from baseball faster than you can say Pete Rose! Spitballs, vasoline balls, corked bats, all part of the game that have been forgiven. How do we know when someone has a corked bat whether they used it that way their entire career?

My point wasn't to argue if his records were valid; merely it was to argue the ridiculous claim that if McGwire, Sosa, etc have broken ANY TYPE of law, completely unrelated to baseball, they should have asterisks or whatever.

Damn, there are a huge number of athletes who have committed MAJOR crimes in sports, and NO ONE CARES. This is the most UNBELIEVABLE thing, in my opinion. Ray Lewis...maybe he didn't actually kill that guy, but he was somehow involved. Jamal Lewis set up a drug deal when he knew he had millions coming to him soon. The only complaint people had about this was when it was found out he would be missing a few weeks of the season, and "damn, I'm screwed in fantasy football for those weeks."

Why do people care so much when it comes to the history of the game? People have been cheating in baseball, in one way or another, for years. Greenies, spitballs, cork, etc. The way we idolize players is ridiculous. Mickey Mantle was a drunk, but he's loved. Hell, my father has been telling me how great he was since I was born. Did he ever manage to tell me how he (Mickey, not my dad) got loaded every night with Billy and Whitey? Of course not. My father bought me Mantle's book "My Favorite Summer - 1956" when I was, maybe, 10 or 11. Imagine my surprise when I read it and found out what kind of guy he really was. Does that change how I felt about him as a player? No. As the idol my dad made him out to be? Yes.

I guess my point in my rambling above is this: I really don't care about asterisks or whatever, and I don't think anyone else should either. I'm 21 years old. If in maybe about 15 years, when I have a kid who is starting to follow baseball, my son asks me about Barry Bonds, I'll tell him he was a shithead who was juiced up, was an asshole to the media, and allegedly teammates too. I'll make sure he doesn't want to grow up to be Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, etc. But I will tell him about the hard work, great play, and attitude of guys like Piazza, Jeter, Varitek, etc. Guys who can be respected for the way they are off the field as much as on the field.

Looking back at what I've written here, I don't know if this makes sense, or if I even stuck with one stance. But damn it, this made sense in my head, and if I confuse the hell out of my kid one day, well too bad, that's what dads are for. :)

That is all well and good for 2004, but I was talking historically. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you'll find more instances of pitchers pitching well into their 40s than batters hitting into their 40s. Also, the dropoff in ERA for the Rocket is most likely a result of him going to the NL. Many AL pitchers have gone to the NL and completely changed their game. RJ was nowhere near as nasty as when he first came to the NL...I think he went nearly undefeated for the Astros. Leiter was a mediocre AL pitcher and became the NL's best. I'm not saying 100% that NL batting is worse, just that a lot of pitchers that are pretty good in the AL become even better in the NL.

If the guy sold it to them KNOWING that it was a drug cartel (by the way, are there any legal drug cartels :)?), then hell yeah he should be fired. If he sold it to a company that happened to be a front for a carter, then no.

He did it knowing, just like Barry. He knew what he was doing and would tarnish the image of baseball, and yet he did it and introduced others to it.

Good point.

You guys don't honestly think there should be an asterisk next to Bonds records, right?

And with Perry, it's even worse, IMO - his doctoring of baseballs has been an open, running joke for decades. It's not like baseball turned a blind eye to what he was doing - it became part of the "colorful" history of the 70's and 80's.

I remember when he was coaching a small Div III team and they played my school's team (this was back around 1990, I think). Every time he went out to the mound we would yell for the umps to watch him, etc. And he still seemed genuinely amused by it all.

I will agree with Bonds in one thing he said in that it's only baseball. The way this gets carried on about is a tad ridiculous.

Take a look at the home run totals pre-1920 and the reason they increased in the following years.

In my heart I would like to see an asterisk until he comes clean. Tell us how long you've been doing steroids, what you've been doing, why you did them, etc.. so we can judge him and his records honestly. None of this 'I applied cream but had no idea what it was' crap. Sort of like the way they held out the Pete Rose HOF invite until he admitted he gambled (not that that really worked out).

In reality, though the asterisk probably doesn't make sense. I do know that if in 20 years from now my kid asks me who the greatest home run hitter or baseball player or whatever is, I won't say Barry Bonds.

Who even comes close to Barry Bonds that has played in the past quarter-century?

No one (edit - other than Hank in the HR dept of course), but you're missing the point. I'll never know how much of that was do to the 'roids and how much of that was due to Barry. I mean he was a great hitter and MVP back when he was skinny Barry ... but he didn't become the greatest until he started bulking out jacking 50+ homers a year.

How many of those homers would have been pop flies for skinny Barry? How many of those walks/pitch arounds would have been issued if the pitchers didn't fear him. How many more strikeouts would he have if pitchers knew they could get it in on the handle and he couldn't turn it for 450 feet?

I'll never know or at least I'll have doubts. If Barry came clean at least I'd be able to put it in some contexts.

My favorite question I heard is when someone asked him "Barry, do you have anything you want to apologize for". This was well into and surely the guy new what he was going to get. It took balls and I think he asked him just to get under his skin.

By the way, I read in SI today that human growth hormone is not on the banned list in the new policy. What the hell!? I thought that was one of the main things that was being abused.

In addition to that, I feel sure there are more designer steroids out there that are currently undetectable.

So don't anybody kid yourselves into thinking that the new plan is going to change anything soon.

Without steroids, Bonds' best years would have been about 10 years ago. He certainly wouldn't be hitting 70-plus HRs at his age!

He should go to the hall of fame for sure because he was one of the best players in the game prior to his alleged steroid use. He has been in the top 3 in OPS since 1990. That is pretty remarkable consistancy, and I think we'd all agree that back in 1990 and up through at least most of the 90's Bonds wasn't juicing.

Big Mac hit 70 and 65 at 35 and 36. Bonds hit 73 at 37. Not much of a difference.

Actually, if you take away hi 73, the sheer number of home runs Bonds has hit has been fairly consistent since the early 90s. He just has a helluva lot more HRs/ABs now because of all the walks.

1992 - 36
1993 - 38
1994 - 18 (injured)
1995 - 33
1996 - 42
1997 - 40
1998 - 37
1999 - 34 (injured)
2000 - 49
2001 - 73
2002 - 46
2003 - 45
2004 - 45

Is there an increase? No doubt. Is it this huge, monsterous increase? If you take out the 73, not really. It's actually his BA that's gone way up in his career.

From 1992 - 2000, Bonds was a great hitter, hitting 6 times during that span. But he hit over .312 only once (.336 in 1993).

Since that 2000 season, Bonds has hit over .320 every year. And over .340 the last 3 years. That's a pretty sizable increase.

Do steriods improve your eyes and contact (probably)? Has anyone tested Irchio?

That's a silly argument. Bonds always had good hand/eye coordination no one doubts that. No one says steroids enables you to hit a 90mph fastball.

But based on popular knowledge steroids do increase strength. Strength does turn that popup into a home run, or off the wall double. Strength does turn a weak liner into a hard liner. Strength does allow you to hit a ball off the handle of the bat and muscle it into the outfield. Strenth allows you to intimidate pitchers. All of which could not only increase home run production but also batting average - last time I checked your batting average was higher if you hit it off the wall versus weak popups. And anyone who's seen Ichiro play knows he's a completely different style hitter than Bonds (slap base hitters are way different than power hitters).

Perhaps more importantly, steroids help maintain the strength and eases recovery from injury (which as those of us over 30 can attest becomes increasingly difficult as we approach 40).

I think Big Mac was juicing too.

My point is that a typical power hitter's prime is in their late 20s and early 30s. By their late 30s the body starts to degrade. Injuries happen more regularly, and the daily wear and tear of the season gets to them.

No way would Bonds have been able to keep his HR/AB pace from his "prime" as he got older without help. And you can't discount HR/AB just because of walks. More walks means less chances to hit a HR. He should be hitting less of them per season - not MORE!

This is the most important part, every time Barry trots out the "Steroids don't help hand-eye coordination" it further convinces me he is taking something. Whether he has convinced himself that what he is doing is fine is irrelevant to me.

Actually, I saw something just the other day on this...I wish I could remember where.

The average top-25 HR hitter is 2+ years older than the average 25 years ago. I think it went from 29.5 to 32 or something like that. So the overall trend is for power hitters to be older and with the advances in medicine, workout routines, etc., I can believe that this happens without someone taking steroids. It seems we see more older players in many sports - there are 40 year olds playing basketball, older HR hitters and it seems even older hockey players. I don't notice the trend as much in football, probably due to the contact and very short time in the league of the average football player. But I see it in other sports...or am I wrong?

You're probably right. I haven't seen the actual statistical breakdown by age, but that sounds correct and I believe it is probably true.

But again, he is an admitted steroid user. In my mind it's no different than Sammy's corked bat. We can't know for sure what impact it had on his performance, but it calls into question everything he's done on the field in recent years.