Bill Cosby ruffles some feathers.
 

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0504/21cosby.html

Cosby stuns crowd with politically incorrect speech

Washington Post
Published on: 05/21/04


WASHINGTON — Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks at a Constitution Hall bash commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. To astonishment, laughter and applause, Cosby mocked everything from urban fashion to black spending and speaking habits.

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he declared Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids — $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ...

EMAIL THIS PRINT THIS MOST POPULAR

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he exclaimed. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

Cosby also turned his wrath to "the incarcerated," saying: "These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, (saying) 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African-American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.

I can understand his point of view.

I find it funny, I work at a plant where we have several blacks that work out in the warehouse. Occasionally we get phone calls for some of these workers. Most of the time it is a bunch of mumbling until you can pick out a name that you can pass the phone too.

One time this guy calls, and I can not make out a word of what he was saying. I ask him three times who he is calling for and can not understand him. Finally, he starts cursing and says, "You're going to make me talk English? IS TONY THERE?" Plain as day, opened my eyes a bit too.

Good for him.

I should certainly hope not. African-Americans are only 13% of the US population (12.9 including mixed race people in the 2000 census).

I've seen that statistic many times before, yet it is still difficult for me to fathom, having lived in Georgia all my life, which is almost 30% black. There's actually a good sidebar discussion about integration that we could have based on those stats. I'll bring that one up when I get back in town and have time to participate.

Idaho and Montana even the numbers out.

Not really. Without looking, I'd venture to guess that there are as many black people in Metro Atlanta alone as there are white people in either of those states. :p

Wow. Bill Cosby has always seemed like an individual, though, who does not consider himself a part of any group or classification. Those things cut both ways, though. It is less about race, IMHO, and more about how a lot of people in this country don't have their priorities in order and would prefer to blame others for their troubles.

And there's about as many left-handed lesbian Eskimos in Atlanta as there are..... oh never mind! :D

I don't understand that? Why should black people conform to speak english? Is it because is it the so called civilized? Tis the human condition of the member of the have-nots...

there's a difference between conformity and speaking the official language of the country. Why should I have to learn how to play football just so I can join the Carolina Panthers team?

Technically, we have no offiical language.

Easy that seems like to different things to me. One is sports the other is your life... what I am say is because I say Wuz Up instead of How do you do... I am not educated? I just find it odd and interesting that speaking proper english is considered civilized.

All people are free to speak any way they please. However refusing to speak proper english will certainly limit your choices and opportunities in life. When you walk into a job interview you will be judged on everything about you. They will take into account how you look, how you speak, how you write etc. In corporate america the guy in the suit who is speaking proper english is goign to get the job far more often than the guy in a t-shirt and jeans who isn't speaking proper english. Regardless of race.

So I believe black people and all people should feel free to talk however they like. However the reality of the world is by choosing not to speak "properly" you might be closing doors on opportunities and you never want to limit your choices in life.

I think it's a matter of working within the system you are a part of. If people want to speak slang/street, they shouldn't be surprised when they are judged for doing so.

actually, one is sports, the other is words. If I wanted to play football all my life, then I guess it would be my life. But I still don't want to learn the rules and how to play... I just want to play.

And seeing as how you spend at least 12 years being educated in proper english, I am that you would consider it an affront when people expect you to use the language.

we posted at the same time, but I think primelord made my point a little more eloquently.

Thats my point. If I am well qualified for a job shouldn't I be hired? I would dress the part because it is required as a dresscode but to change how i speak around my boss or coworkers just seems odd. And you speak about the reality of the world, if one does not chose to speak so called properly they won't get far. Now if I am not mistaken one of the goals of slavery(I hate to bring up) was to atleast make you accept whatever it was master told you and don't try to do your own thing even though you may do it as good as the next guy. In my opinion hearing slang scares them because they could be speaking coded language.

The East Coast is quite unique when it comes to African American population. I did a project for work a couple of years ago and the distributino was surprising to us. The Highest concentrations are in Baltimore and Washington, DC and Atlanta. California is below the national average with only 8% of LA and 9% of the Bay Area. Other large cities that drive the average down are Boston, Phoenix, Seattle, Minneapolis, San Diego and Denver.

Todd

well, there's not much you can say when a person has a chip on their shoulder... carry on with your plight big man. Meanwhile, me and my boyz a be workin.

Or, they just think someone speaking like that will lose them a lot of potential clients.

You're not going to be well qualified for many jobs if you cannot effectively communicate with clients, coworkers, etc. I worked for a company based out of Montreal for a few years and accepted the fact that certain promotions were going to be out of my reach because I couldn't speak French fluently. It's a part of life...

All of this is "part of life" and necessary for client interaction, but it also attests to the fact that language is not "neutral." It is only because "proper" English is practiced by the largely white majority that other forms of English are held in lower regard. And it is also a regional effect (ie a Southern accent can cut both ways depending where you are living). While it is easy to say that you should learn "proper" English if you want to succeed, I think it is also important that those of us who use "proper" English recognize that those who use other forms of the language are no less qualified or intelligent.

How so? If I am a lawyer I would defend my client the very same way some who is equal to me but instead choses to speak proper english. Another point you will lose potential clients by not hiring the best people no matter what... Business is all about profit because if you not in it for profit you need a new career.

I don't disagree with you that if you are qualified for the job that you should be hired. Along the same lines I think that if someone is qualified for a job that doesn't really rely on their writing skills and they have a few grammar mistakes on their resume that shouldn't always be held against them either. Again the reality of the situation is that it's going to be held against them.

You said that you will dress the part because it is required, but how is that any different. I would assume that if you were working in an environment that required a suit and tie that you wouldn't also be wearing that in your free time. I know I don't. Does the way I dress affect how well I perform in my job? Absolutely not. I have no interactions with customers so it really has no bearing at all on my job performance. However there is an exepected level of dress in my office and that is just the way it is.

Again if you feel that strongly about speaking a certain way then it is certainly your right to continue doing so. However it will absolutely close doors for you in the future. They may not be opportunities you were interested in anyway, and that doesn't mean at all that you can't or won't be successful in life. But I will say again you always want to give yourself as many choices as possible in life. And whether or not it is fair or right, by not speaking proper english it will limit your opportunities.

Edit: I missed an ' in it's and I didn't want Quik's head to explode.

I disagree John. While it certainly does not indicate substandard intelligence, improper use of the "proper" English language will often times signify a less qualified person if the job, as a great many do, require effective communication with coworkers, clients, etc. as VPI pointed out. Seems to me that the fact that the majority utilizes "proper" English is precisely the reason that qualification can be determined by its use.

Funny you mention that statistic SkyDog, I have lived in Memphis, TN for the last 20 yrs. and Memphis is roughly 60% black. I used to travel a lot for work a few years back, and found myself in Tulsa. Something just seemed odd about the town and I could not put my finger on it. Then it dawned on me, everyone there was white...

It seemed odd...

Ever heard a teenager girl talk? Like, um, well, yeah, like, well, um...

The point is, once we grow up, go into the "real" world of no more summer vacations, bills to pay, and work to be done, we have to cast aside the slang of our youth for the language of our profession.

I no longer can drop a "dude" or "rad" or "wicked" into my conversation at work...

Fair or not, you are being judged all the time...people that dress well and speak well are going to make a more positive impression than those who do not...it does not mean they are necessarily better people, but we often only have a few moments to make that impression...we don't have the time to sit down and get to know the "real person" behind the facade...

besides, white teens now speak slang that has much in common with black teens slang, and they too will be judged based on their language skills as they mature and grow up...

tru dat...

Kevin

Noop, the problem is that you are limiting yourself to those who communicate in the same way and there is just far more that speak 'normal' english. It would be like hiring someone who only speaks spanish to work the drive thru at a McDonalds because they are good at it.

That isn't to say that a business that was focused towards that type of language wouldn't work, because it probably would. The music stores in Fargo are a completely different set of people, pierced, tattooed druggies, but they are highly successful.

I love Bill Cosby now. :)

awe shit, now I agree with WIG? wtf is the world coming to?

Effective communication skills is essential in today's workforce. Someone could develop Hyperspace Travel today, but unless he can effectively communicate his discovery to others, his breakthrough will not see the light of day.

Effective communication can be done in a variety of ways. Speaking and writing are the two most frequently used methods of communication in the workplace today. If you cannot use either form to communicate in a way that your co-workers, clients, or vendors can understand, then you will not be very succesful.

I never denied that not using "proper" English has an effect in the "real world." My point is that the reason it has an effect is based on a form of prejudice. Not hiring someone because clients/coworkers/customers feel uncomfortable communicating with someone who speaks with a Southern/Hispanic/Ebonic/Northern/French/East African/Asian accent supports a form of discrimination by proxy. I'm not saying that you should ignore the "real world" effects just that we should also fight the prejudice created by believing that "proper" English is the only way to speak.

They is essential? ;)

Okay, I think you made your point more clearly that time. To me, it seemed like before, while you were admitting the "real world" effects, you said that it should not be used to determine qualification. My point was that it should be used to determine qualification. I do agree though, that the "qualification" is based on a type of discrimination, although I would classify it as one of the more innocuous of prejudicial forms.

Good catches primelord? :P

Agreed. As long as speaking "proper" English is in the best interests of companies trying to maximize profit, those who don't speak it will be "discriminated" against.

I just have one thing to say to Mr. Cosby....

What the problem is?!?

From the time I was very young, my parents made it very clear that it was fine to talk "black" around the kids in the neighborhood, etc., but in order to be successful we needed "learn how to talk around white folks." (That was exactly how they put it.) That seems so simple to me.

A funny anecdote: a few months after I started on Young Life staff, my brother called me at the office one day. When I got off the phone, I noticed a co-worker looking at me with a puzzled look. I asked what was up, and I could tell he was a little uncomfortable, but finally he just said, "I had no idea you could talk black!" I busted out laughing when I realized that when on the phone with family, I just naturally moved from one "language" to the other without even knowing it.

Shortly after we started dating, my wife commented on the same thing about me. Even funnier to her is that when she is the only white person present, everyone in my family talks very "black", but when we're in majority white settings, we'll all use standard English. She commented that she figured it would be the case but it was still very "different" for her to hear my brothers and sister speaking erudite standard English after hearing, "Ben, why you ain't called me in like two months? You be too busy to talk to yo' own sistah?" for example. The final moment in her "education" in this area was a couple of months ago. She used to be a branch manager for a large bank. The V.P. who hired her was black, and often worked out of an office in the branch that she managed. (As is so happens, he grew up in the same home town as I did and was friends with my older siblings...) One Sunday recently, we visited the church that he attends, so we were in a virtually all-black environment. It was a quite a surprise for her to her to hear an MBA-Bank-VP-dot-every-I-cross-every-T guy like him speaking as "black" as her often-uneducated birth mothers that she works with now. ;)

man, this is a slippery slope...

so when my students tell me that the way I grade their papers is prejudice against teen slang (age discrimination) they are right?

The English language is spoken by whites, blacks, and every shade in between...to think that "proper" English is a "white" thing is insulting...so what about some African nations where English is either the primary or secondary language spoken (and often in old English form)???

People always speak differently in different company...with my buddies, I still sound like a college guy...with my grandparents, I sound like an old man...at my work, I try to sound like a professional...

Kevin

I see what you're trying to say, but I don't agree with it.

Let's say a trial in Kingston features a Jamaican lawyer arguing his point against a Scottish lawyer...Assuming that they are equally skilled in their craft, it's not a reach to say that the Jamaican lawyer will have a easier time in communicating his point to the jury. Is that because Jamaicans are prejudiced against people with Scottish accents?

I would disagree that it is innocuous. Especially for Americans who speak Spanish this has been a contentious and often litigated issue. Many companies started passing "English only" rules that made English the only allowable language to be spoken in the workplace. While this made sense in a few isolated cases (like in a hospital emergency room), it was being adopted in places where there was no legitimate argument. The result was often 100's of Hispanic Americans being fired from jobs (while their White counterparts who may use a "foreign" word were allowed to stay). Language norms because race norms and it created environments hostile to non-white Americans.

I think there are a lot of other cases as well where language is used as a proxy for race (see the Ebonics controversy). Ultimately, we can't deny the importance of clear communication, but I think Americans really need to realize that language/accent discrimination (rationalized as necessary for business) often cloaks race discrimination.

And notice the house of cards effect. Company A says it needs "proper English" speakers so it can interact with Companies B, C, and D. Companies B, C, and D say they need "proper English" speakers so they can interact with Companies A, E, F, and G. The cycle continues because "proper English" is the privileged form.

Yes, I would say it is a form of prejudice. That is a form we all naturally have. My only point is that we should try to fight that natural prejudice toward the familiar and learn to accept a wide varieties of English.

People act like a little discrimination is a bad thing.

Personally, my opinion of a potential hire falls dramatically with grammatical errors on his/her resume. To me, it shows a lack of attention (or a lack of caring about) detail, which is important in nearly EVERY career path.

John,

While I understand your position, I think it is flawed. When you speak to a customer or a vendor at work, do you use expletives? When you go to the store and ask to speak to a customer service representative, do you want someone who speaks the "King's" English, or someone that speaks colloquially?

In 10 years of work in sales, I have spoken to people around the world. Let me tell you, it is very difficult to speak to people from other parts of the world. There are different accents on the words, different tones of voice, and even different sentence structure. It is very difficult to talk these people (not a bad thing, it just takes a lot of work to listen to them). Which is funny because the other people from the office would say, "It's a foreigner, let's give it to John." They didn't want to deal with it.

When looking for a job, selling a product, talking to a friend, and giving a speech, you must tailor your message to the crowd you are talking to. This has nothing to do with prejudice or discrimination, it is about effectively communicating with your audience. If you make it easier for them to listen, it is easier to get your message across and leave them with something to think about.

Whoa there. No one said "proper English" shouldn't be taught. I think creating language uniformity is VERY important. My issue is that language unifromity doesn't exist and until it does we can't ignore the real world effects of language discrimination.

As for the "insulting" point by me. I NEVER said that only whites speak "proper English." My point was that as long as whites are the majority (especially in the business world) and they predominantly use "proper English," it will be the preferred and privileged form in our society. Note however that within various subcultures create different preferred forms (ie the rap world doesn't prefer "proper English").

And I won't even point out that the slippery slope is a fallacy. ;)

Excuse me, but that is a great big steaming pile of pure bullshit. My father grew up in utter poverty, and my mother wasn't well-off, either. They grew up in the South as poor black folks in the 20's and 30's. No one anywhere can ever make any claim that there was anything "privileged" about my parents. Somehow, they learned to use this "privileged form," though, and made dadgum sure that their children learned to use it as well.

Agree to disagree, I guess. My definition of prejudice would include phrases like "irrational conclusions" and "unreasonable judgements". I don't see how a natural preference to be able to smoothly communicate with another human being falls under irrational or unreasonable.

Don't try to use the extreme to prove the rule. No one is saying four letter words are acceptable in a business environment. I'm saying when someone says "axe" instead of "ask" or says "ya'll" instead of "you all," it shouldn't be as big of deal as people make it to be. I'm just fighting the notion that there is only 1 form of English in our world now, but that doesn't mean any variation on English should be acceptable.

dola, I also should note I'm only talking in terms of spoken English - written English is a whole separate issue.

I dated a black girl who couldn't speak black at all. I had to teach her everything. It would have made a great movie.

Note again that I didn't say that "proper English" shouldn't be taught (in fact I said the exact opposite). And I am not saying that people who speak "proper English" are privileged in all aspects of their life. My only point is that "proper English" is the privileged form of language and those who use it have a leg up as a result. That is all well and good, but sometimes there is a negative effect on race through langauge as well (as my "English only" law example above illustrates).

So basically from what I gather I have to change who I am to get a job? I get it. Because on this board I can speak slang because no one would understand what they hell I am talking about. Also to the person who said white kids speak slang also I would like to point out that if both a white and a black kid were going for the same job. The white kid would get it because he has less strikes against him when he walks through the door.

I agree with John by the way.

Neither of them would get the job.

I guess I don't agree that it always shows a lack of attentiion to detail. In some cases it may just be the person in question doesn't always know the grammar rules. Now if you are hiring a professional writer clearly this is a problem. Even if you are hiring someone who will only be writing things occasionally, but it is still an important part of their job then it is a problem.

However in my line of work the ability to even write a coherent senetence falls well below the ability to write good code or to maintain servers. I know several very talented computer programmers who don't write very well and make many of the mistakes that have been mentioned in the various grammar rant threads around here. However they are excellent at their job and it would have been a shame for them to not have been given the chance because of a few mistakes on their resume. With that being said it also wouldn't have been shocking if they hadn't been given those chances.

The people here in the UK don't like it when I tell them that just because the language is named after your country, doesn't mean you speak it correctly! :D

On the continent, most people I speak with say that they learn British English in school, but prefer American English.

Yet you go on about the spanish speaking person being discriminated against. Are we saying spanish is a variety of english now?

The fact is, to be successful in any job you need to be able to communicate well be it with co-workers, the public, whoever. If you can't communicate then you aren't going to be employed there for very long.

Of course the one going on and on about this being discrimination IS a lawyer, he does want more business afterall.

Please do...

there is nothing racist in requiring that someone speak "proper" English in a professional setting...just as there is nothing wrong in requiring people to use correct grammar and punctuation in writing...

There needs to be a line drawn between how we speak to our friends/family in a private setting, and the language we use in a professional setting...this line is for everyone...and does not attack any one group...

Again, frat boys just out of college cannot speak as they wish in an office, a high school intern must adjust her language as well, I cannot use language that may be deemed offensive in my classroom, etc...

If we begin to accept that there are other ways of speaking in a proper setting, where do we draw the line? If we tell employers to stop being racists in judging a young black man who speaks street slang in the interview, shouldn't the employer also have to excuse the unique language that many frat boys use as well? This is the slope I see...

Kevin

If you had a lawyer who couldn't be clearly understood by either the judges or the jury then that would surely affect his ability to work for his clients?

In a similar manner in business there is generally a lot of competition, if say 4 vendors are offering me deals and I can understand 3 of them and one of the deals seem the best then I'll generally dismiss a fourth if I can't understand the terms (whether for legalise or because they're communicating in a way I don't comprehend), often in business things have to be implemented fairly quickly and any impediment to things will often cause a proposal to be dropped - this is simply a fact of life which I'm sure happens in pretty much all businesses.

Cerbuis Perusbus(sp?) Crap I can spell it but I am talking about those two only and the company needs to hire someone.

No noop, you have to change who they want you to be. They want you to fail so they can say "Just another black kid." This probably doesn't make sense to you now, but it will.

Aside from the fact that your point is a different discussion. I just wanted to point out that in any of the offices I have worked in over the years if a white kid and black kid showed up for a job interview and they spoke slang throught the entire interview neither one of them would have been offered the job.

Edit: Crap cthomer already said this. :)

That has to be the stupidest most racist thing I've seen in this thread. Thank you for classifying every potential employer as a white racist.

In this mythical fantasy land, I don't know who gets hired then. It would likely depend on the type of company, the location of the company, and the type of clients they interact with.


If this is the real world, there are hundreds of other applicants who are more qualified.

Read my example again. The problem was that language was being used as a proxy for race discrimination. Spanish isn't English, but Hispanic Americans were fired while whites speaking "foreign" words were not.

And I don't litigate anything in this area, so I have no selfish motive for any of it.

Aye, I wanted to say something like that but I am quite sure I have said alot of things that will make folks attack me again. It is setup for you to ignore your past in order to make it... I want to rise up against "The Man!!!" :)

:)

noop

Read what I said again. I NEVER said people shouldn't speak professionally in a professional environment. My point is that the focus on "proper English" and conceptions of what are proper accents often cloak discrimination. That doesn't mean EVERYTHING GOES.

Sorry Chubby you swung and missed.

It's not race discrimination, if some white guy who grew up in Mexico that spoke spanish it'd be the same thing. It has nothing to do with their race but the ability to effectivly comunicate.

yup, in that case, the position would go unfilled for a while...

and I also appreciate the post just a few up deeming all white employers as racists...thanks...did it ever occur to you that some (not all) white employers do judge the applicants on their qualifications...and some even think that having a diversified workplace is something to strive for?

Kevin

Don't conflate complete incomprehensibility with having to learn varieties of English. In America it is too easy to dismiss others who speak differently with out making some effort. That is where I have a problem.

No no, you're right. They all want to say "just another black kid" right? :rolleyes:

Racist and I called you out on it.

Are there people that may say that? Sure, but to make such a general statement is wrong.

If it is not racists what is it? Selective hiring?

Agreed.

At some point in time, it became fashionable and politically correct to embrace warped "dialects" of the English language. Why? What's the problem with expecting everyone to speak one language, and to do so properly? Turn off the damned television, stop listening to the damned music, and read a damned book already.

Actually John, there are times when using expletives at work is necessary. Again, I go back to my experience in sales. When I am making a service call out in Virginia or the Carolinas and meet with the maintenance people at an industrial plant, proper use of them is essential to build repoire with them. Since many of them are from the navy, learning to talk like a sailor is important :) .

It is amazing what a well timed expletive can do. I normally do not use them as I think they are better ways of expressing yourself, but the other day, one of my long time customers was trying to pressure me into giving them a discount due to delays in shipment. The delays were due to their constant revisions to their order. After listening to them for 10 minutes, I laid in to them. "These units would not have been late if you guys could make up your #$%@#%$ minds and quit changing the %#$ $%$! requirements every other $%#%$# day we could have shipped by the original date!"
Not only did we not have to give them a discount, we actually got some overages due to the extra work we went through on the job.

Seriously though, some times it is very necessary to talk the talk. My point is everyone should speak "proper" English unless the situation dictates otherwise (being with family, friends, etc.).

Chubby, you prove yet again that you don't want to hear what anyone else has to say. Of course it is the same in Mexico. That is EXACTLY why language becomes a proxy for race discrimination. Race and language are often (but not always) tied together.

Since you in the mood for name calling I think your one myself. And I called you on it.

Nope.

You have no idea what I am talking about, so quit making a fool of yourself.

So, people should be able to talk however they want in any setting? We should have 1/2 the high school math class talking in spanish and the other half in english? Of course, that'd be "race discrimination" to you if we don't allow it...

Oh ok, so please enlighten me oh knowledgeable one...

Pray tell how I'm the racist?

Strategically, I agree. I just think we others don't speak the same version of English as we do, we should try to understand and be tolerant instead of being dismissive. I recognize that is not how the real world is.

Again, the solution seems pretty simple: if you want a leg up, learn "proper English."

If you want a leg up in the job hiring market, there are several ways to do it:

• Conform your dress to the standard expectation.
• Conform your spoken language to the standard expectation.
• "Conform" your education to the standard expectation (ie, if you don't have a degree, maybe you should consider earning one...)
• Conform your written grammar to the standard expectation
• "Conform" your skills to the standard expectation (go get certified, for example)

My point is that "conforming" one's language to an expected norm just makes sense.

The same way you could call HornedFrog Purple one. No facts or proof just talking out my ass.

I'm a programmer/designer type myself, so I'm in the same industry - and to an extent, that makes it just as important. If you're putting yourself forward as someone who has experience with (for example) Windows 2000/XP, Microsoft Office, and Visual Studio - then not using the functionality built into those products is a huge strike. If you're going to claim experience in Word, use the damn spellchecker. Use the grammar checker. I'm not grading you, I'm not taking off points for margins being wrong, but you're not willing to take enough pride in a resume that represents you directly, then how can I expect you to take pride in a product that represents your company?

Kevin

/back 45minutes

I agree with that.

I honestly think that in most job settings it's a function of economoics, not discrimination, that would keep someone who didn't speak "proper" English from being hired.

Are they really being discriminatory if they "proper" english happens to be the type of english that will best communicate with the majority of their customer base? Is that discrimination or good business sense?

Nope, sorry. See, I actually gave a reason for my calling his statement racist. He made a blanket statement saying that any employer just wants to say "just another black kid" and to see you fail. That's just not correct, maybe in some parts of the country it is more prevelant than others but in now way do I think that that is even the majority feeling.

You aren't rising up against "The Man", "The Man" is all colors. "The Man" wants to look at you speaking like a uneducated, black ghetto kid, and then will treat you like one. How do you think Colin Powell has achieved what he has? Or any other number of black people? Because they broke the stereotype.

You have to compete on the same level as anyone else or "The Man" will just toss you aside before you even get two sentences out.

We have a guy in our office from the Virgin Islands. When he is on the phone with his family, his accent is so thick that we literally cannot understand half of what he says, even though he is speaking plain english. Around everyone else he is easy to understand. He never talks about "changing who he is" like he has a chip on his shoulder.

We also have a girl who is indian. Her accent is quite thick. On the phone I cannot understand her and often have to ask her to repeat herself. When she is in our office and face to face and I can watch her speak, I can pick up most everything though. She is shielded from customers because most of our customers would not be able to understand her. This means more work for everyone, we all occasionally have to talk to a customer for her, or pick up her slack b/c of the language barrier. She is very technically competant though so she is employed.

Are we racist because we don't want the girl who cannot be understood by many customers talking to customers? Are we racist b/c we appreciate the guy with the *thick* island accent toning it down when he talks to everyone else?

Honestly, noop, I think you are picking a battle that doesn't need to be fought, and going into it with a major chip on your shoulder.

I hate dressing up past jeans and a t-shirt. Hell, I don't even like jeans, I'd prefer shorts. I only own khakis and polo shirts b/c my job has a dress code that requires them.

I cuss a lot outside of work, with my friends. I don't cuss very often in the office. Do these thigns mean I'm forced to "change who I am" to work? Sort of, but its just not worth fighting, even though I could go to work in shorts, cussing every other word and get my job done just as well. Just not a battle worth fighting. I refuse to wear a suit, so I won't take a job that requires it. I'm limiting myself, knowingly and intentionally, in this way,and i'm fine with it.

BTW, I really like the example given earlier of the valley girl teen, "like, um, yeah, seriously, whatever, I'm 21." It's not a race thing here, that girl doesn't get hired either if that's how she conducts herself at an interview.

Resume mistakes drive me insane. This is how you are presenting yourself to your employer (for better or worse). Take the time to make sure it is accurate, up-to-date, and error free. Attention to detail is a key skill in almost any job, and those who show a lack of it in their first impression get little sympathy from me.

edit: spelling error.... oh, the irony!

If a white kid walked in the door for an interview and started speaking like an uneducated, white priveliged kid he'd get tossed out just as fast as your example. It's not a color issue, it's a education and communication issue but you don't want to see that.

Background checks are racist too.

So is requiring an education

And drug tests

And people say political threads here have predictable outcomes.
Sheesh.

*wig puts his thread sniper rifle away*