Eli Manning doesn't want to go to San Diego
 

ESPN is reporting that his Dad and agent contacted the Chargers, hoping they'd keep it quiet. But they're blowing up Eli's spot, probably hoping to get more from the Giants.

I can't see them drafting him and having him play there, when its obvious not only that he doesn't want to be there, but that they could still get a good quarterback of the future, plus more which would help them more.

THoughts?

Call him Elway Manning

Yep, I thought the same thing. Considering how awful the Colts were at the time I probably should be more understanding, but I still hold a grudge against Elway for refusing to be picked by the Colts.

What's all this 'refusal' crap going on? He's about to make a boatload of money, isn't that enough? I hate it when a professional sports player refuses to sign with a team after he's been drafted (yes, JD Drew). Must be nice to make millions of $$$$ AND get to work where you want to.

Only in America!


Todd

So you prefer the A-Rods with their take the money and screw the fans type of attitude?

Actually, yes only in America can a person have the freedom to decide where they live and where they work. I live and work in Colorado, where I spend most of my off time Skiing and Kayaking. If my boss would show up tomorrow and inform me that I had been transferred to the Death Valley branch I would tell him where he could stick his transfer papers.

So, yes Only in America! can we enjoy the freedom of living and working where we choose!

I guess he's not as much like his older brother as I hoped...

Oh God damn it Ernie Acoursi, take the fucking stud lineman! Why do I get the feeling that I'm going to have an aneurysm thanks to this guy this weekend?

Here we go with another draftee refusing to go where he is told. Sounds like another thread we have here. :D ;)

What is strange is that the teams and players seem to work things out in the end. It really doesn't harm anybody (cept the fans) because if SD really did draft him, they can use him to trade for equal talent or compensation (in theory).

What I don't like is the attitude of players and their advice men in situations like these.

Has there been anybody like this in the past that didn't go to a team and that team won a super bowl before the player and his new team did? Can't think of any, but it would be just desserts if it happened in this case.

Oh yeah, we're talking about the Chargers and a Manning. Nevermind.

On ESPN Radio they were talking about how they think it could be because "Archie played for a flailing franchise and he know's first hand how bad it can be. He doesn't want the same thing for his son."

Excuse me? Weren't the Colts a flailing franchise when Peyton got drafted by them? They might not had been as bad as the 'Aints, but they were at least as bad as the Chargers have been the past few years.

Shit like this just pisses me off...

The question that'll never be answered: If Elway smiles and decides to be the cornerstone of the Baltimore Colts, does that slimy weasel Irsay pack up the vans in the middle of the night? I know it's been 21 years, but Indy Colts still don't sound right. Neither does Ballamoe Ravens. (Isn't a raven a bird that feeds off of dead, decaying animals? Hey, The Indianapolis Ravens. It fits the Irsay name very well...)

If he told you that you would get a $15 million moving bonus and a salary in the $10 mil range you'd be thinking "Well, it is warm there and I'll have a nice tan..." (Not to mention that it's only half the year)

Funny thing is, with a decent QB and Ladanian Tomlinson the Chargers could be a very good team in a couple of years. I'd rather go there than the Giants, who have an above average QB and still sucked last year. At least the Chargers realise you need an offensive line to play football and a QB plays better when he doesn't have to pick his teeth up from the turf every other play.

Archie should stop bitching and realise that the fact that he's going to go at the top of the first round means HE'S NOT GOING TO GO TO A GOOD TEAM.
That's the point of the draft to make the bad teams better. Idiot.

Send him to the Cardinals and let him learn the real definition of bush league franchise.

I think this may all play into the Chargers hands anyway. From several articles I've read recently, they'd be just as happy with Rivers as with Manning anyway, so if they can pull off the heavily-rumored deal with the Giants, it would work out pretty well for them.

yes and no. In one way its good because it will let them off the hook if they trade down (no one will be able to fault them for not taking Manning).

It's bad in the way that they might lose a lot of bargaining leverage. The Giants can pretty much dare the Chargers to take Manning. If they do, they can probably land Gallery. If the Chargers don't take Manning - he'll probably fall to them at #4.

Don't you think the Raiders are likely to pick Gallery, then ?

I don't think Gallery or Manning falls past the Raiders (Manning would be a great Al Davis high profile pick and they are interested in Gallery), so I'm not sure this helps the Giants too much. And if the Raiders take Fitzgerald instead that leaves Arizona taking Manning/Gallery.
Seems the first 3 picks are pretty set (in one order or another) and the Giants still have to get up to number 2 to get one of the two players they want.

Exactly!

We're not talking about my piddly salary, so YES I choose where I live and work. If I just got out of technical school and say, a company in New York drafted me, giving me a 15mil signing bonus... New York here I come.

That's the friggin rules, you go in the draft, you get drafted, shut your hole and play your ass off.


Todd

I think everyone is being a bit hard on Eli here. So far, there are no reports of him saying anything, its all been attributed to his father. Also, don't confuse expressing a preference with a flat out refusal to play. Bottom line, if Eli gets drafted by San Diego, he'll show up and play.

So, if you get paid millions of dollars, you should not get to have any say about where you work and who you work for?

Just because his last name is Manning does not mean he does not deserve to get his ass ripped for this one. There are no reports of him not saying anything either. And despite the fact that the "genius" Denny Green :D is coaching in Arizona, I am sure that there is a preference for other players not to go there. Eli Manning, IMO, is looking like a spoiled brat who does not even have the guts to stand on his own two feet. He has his daddy speaking for him. Tags is trying to placate everybody. Archie Manning is meeting with Scottenheimer??!! What is this? The NFL or Pop Warner. Maybe Eli should join Clarett in the Arena League :mad:

So, whenever a potential draftee is silent, the media is supposed to report it?

He's about to make a boatload of money

Maybe he doesn't think money isn't everything? Seems sensible to me

No meaning that if Eli was not in agreement with what Papa Archie is pulling, he would say so

Not if your are drafted by the NFL, no.

If you want to forego your NFL career and be a roofer or something, then go for it.

If you were a talented QB, would you want to play for Marty Schottenheimer?

Why would he? You say that like it is automatic. I care far more about what my father thinks of me than the general public, so in this case, I would not make a statement distancing myself from my father.

I just really do not understand what the problem is with asking to have some say in where you work. I don't see why people are having such a problem distinguishing between requesting and demanding. They are quite different.

That's the chance the Chargers can take then, right? Draft him and see if he will play for them. NFL rules say that teams can draft you and get exlusive rights to you. That's fine. You also have the right to sign with them or not. Nothing wrong with that. It's called freedom, and we have that freedom here. NFL rules do not say that you MUST sign a contract when a team uses a draft pick on you.

Well he did so much for uh...uh....uh :D

You mean like T.O. requesting to not be traded to Ravens

In sports, no. You go where you are drafted, shut the hell up, and play a game for a living. Seems like a small price to pay, and I don't feel bad for any of them.

Because it's not "asking" where to go, it's leveraging in a draft system. It's saying "I'm going to be a problem for you if you draft me." So San Diego suddenly has lost some leverage in its trade negotiations for the #1 pick, and it has to reassess its draft strategy for what may be a franchise-altering pick.

Edit: typo

Normally, I would agree with that. But the only reason we are discussing this on this board is because the Chargers told the media. Why would they do that if it was going to hurt them? Were they looking to wimp out anyway (by being afraid to take a QB #1) and now they have someone to publicly blame?

The Mannings did not play this for leverage - to do that they would have had been screaming to the press for months that Eli was not going to play for them. Instead, they kept it private and the Chargers - ostensibly the party that is hurt by this being so public - told the whole world.

DING DING DING, We HAVE a winner!

LT needs to get out of that disaster of a franchise.

F--- the Chargers. I say more power to the draftees. They have one piece of leverage. Why shouldn't they use it?

It's up to the team and the league to call the player's bluff. If they can't, then he wins and gets everything he wants.

I love how sports fans are always determining what's enough for someone else...

It seems to be jealousy.

1. Samdari hit it on the head - I think it's being overblown, and we haven't anything about a "refusal" to play for San Diego - just a preference.
2. I don't know if anyone will be playing for Schottenheimer after this year.
3. I haven't heard too much on the Raiders taking Gallery, so I do not think they'd do it if Manning goes #1 overall. I still think they take Roy Williams if that happens. The Giants would probably need to trade up to 3 then, or someone else will.

Here is the article so that folks can judge the semantics of "requests and demands" for themselves.


To me, it doesn't matter if it's a perfumed envelope message requesting to not play for a team or a horses head in Spanos' bed. He (Archie)is making requests that he really shouldn't have a right to make.

If Archie wants to choose the team his son plays for, have him skip the draft and become a free agent. Then he can choose his team with no problem. If it isn't about the money, this shouldn't be a problem for him.

Didnt peyton stay his senior year in college because the Jets were going to draft him if he left early?

I saw an interviewwith Eli were he was asked what the first thing he would buy would be. Didnt sound like a guy who had a hard time paying his bills. Plus i mean its thursday and this dipshits in san diego dont even know what the hell they are going to do. I mean if i was Eli and saw that san diego werent sure about drafting me when im considered by most the no 1 QB in the draft when drew brees is their QB. I wouldnt want to play for them either.

He doesn't have that right - noone does. If they did, just about every top prospect would do so.

He could just refuse to sign for two years, then he'd be free to choose his team for the 2006 season.

He could go play baseball or something. Like Henson, or Hutchinson. It worked out for them didn't it? Oh wait...

Correct. It was very largely reported that Peyton decided to go back because Parcells would not guarantee him the Jets would take him #1 overall. Kind of the reverse of the situation we see right now.


I can understand not wanting to play there.

• Bad coaching situation. Either Schottenheimer gets fired after this season - or worse, he hangs around and Eli gets to hand off 500 times a year while passing 200 until the end of the Schottenheimer regime. Look at the QB stats for starters under Marty, it ain't pretty.
• The team is in a stadium/possible relocation distraction. Everyone knows they're possibly moving to L.A. in a few years. Maybe he doesn't want to be part of that.
• The Chargers just suck. They're still at least 2 years from the playoffs.

This is probably all Archie needed to see before making his remarks:

Marty Schottenheimer's Career Record Year Team W L T Starting QB Comp. Att. Yards TD INT 1984 * Cle. 4 4 0 Paul McDonald 271 493 3,472 14 23 1985 Cle. 8 8 0 Bernie Kosar 124 248 1,578 8 7 1986 Cle. 12 4 0 Bernie Kosar 310 531 3,854 17 10 1987 Cle. 10 5 0 Bernie Kosar 241 389 3,033 22 9 1988 Cle. 10 6 0 Bernie Kosar 156 259 1,890 10 7 1989 K.C. 8 7 1 Steve DeBerg 196 324 2,529 11 16 1990 K.C. 11 5 0 Steve DeBerg 258 444 3,444 23 4 1991 K.C. 10 6 0 Steve DeBerg 256 434 2,965 17 14 1992 K.C. 10 6 0 Dave Kreig 230 413 3,115 15 12 1993 K.C. 11 5 0 Joe Montana 181 298 2,144 13 7 1994 K.C. 9 7 0 Joe Montana 299 493 3,283 16 9 1995 K.C. 13 3 0 Steve Bono 293 520 3,121 21 10 1996 K.C. 9 7 0 Steve Bono 235 438 2,572 12 13 1997 K.C. 13 3 0 Elvis Grbac 179 314 1,943 11 6 1998 K.C. 7 9 0 Rich Gannon 206 354 2,305 10 6 2001 Was. 8 8 0 Tony Banks 198 370 2,386 10 10 2002 S.D. 8 8 0 Drew Brees 320 526 3,284 17 16 2003 S.D. 4 12 0 Drew Brees 205 356 2,108 11 15 Totals 165 113 1 * -- Replaced Sam Rutigliano after eight games.

Wow, Steve DeBerg had a nice year in 90.

Probably nitpicking and possibly influenced by my dislike of Owens but I find this to be a different situation than Owens' situation. Owens was under contract with the 49ers. He was already being paid by them. In my opinion, with his John Hancock already on that contract, he's SOL. On the other hand, Manning hasn't signed with the Chargers and doesn't owe them anything. Being selected merely gives the Chargers the exclusive right to negotiate with him.

On the other hand, it still annoys me that they did that. Sounds really illogical, I know. Oh, the other thing that bugs me as well is that they made it public. That really screws the Chargers over as far as what leverage they might have in negotiating with other teams.That's my big thing. I dislike these "advice" people in this situation, filling players' ears with their own crap.Wrong sport but the one that always stuck in my mind was Todd Van Poppel letting it be known that he would not sign with the Braves if drafted. So they settled for a local shortstop name Larry Wayne Jones.

Unless you want to count Bo.

And was K.C. bound to use only ex-49er QB's for a while there? It seems so crazy in retrospect.

Cush: "I'll either surf or ski. I'll either surf or ski."

I love that story. One of the few where the Atlanta team came out on top.

Manning does not need the money in the way that a lot of top draftees do. He comes from a family of millionaires. In that sense, he has a bit more leverage than a guy whose single mother is on public assistance.

This may yet be another reason for some jealousy over it.

It would be funnier if Archie told the press that the Patriots would be a better team for his son rather than the Giants or Chargers.

Maybe he wants Eli to be the next bachelor, or, he realizes that after the bachelor...his boy will be guarenteed a roster spot without lifting a finger.

What? You guys don't watch the bachelor? Er, me neither. I was just asking.

I think ageofquarrel was insinuating the opposite - that Peyton went back to school to avoid playing for the Jets.

You're probably right, but there was no word that was the case. It appeared to be the opposite. I think Manning was happy enough in school that he would only come out for the perfect situation. I guess playing in New York for Bill Parcells, and being the #1 overall pick was it.

Word was that Manning just didn't want to come out, and have the Jets trade the pick to (fill in the blank) and end up somewhere he hadn't expected (or didn't want) to play.

What nobody, including Archie Manning has taken into account here is the NY media. If he lands here and isn't the second coming of Phil Simms instantly, he'll get ripped, ripped, ripped. (And they really didn't like him when he was playing)

NY is a rough town to play in...

yeah i wasnt sure if that is why Peyton finished his sr year. My friend derek is a jets fan and he hates Peyton and that is reason he gives for it.

I would have thought he hated him for not stepping up in the playoffs. Though as a Jets fan, he would love that every year.

Maybe Eli has some unpaid parking tickets in San Diego and that's why he doesn't want to go there.

Nicely said.

Maybe all the 1st rounders will start saying where they will, will not want to play and we'll do away with the draft. A guy will step up and say the team he wants to play for, and BOOM! it's a done deal.

The next time you play FOF and you're dying for that stud QB who will really make your team much better, you click on him to draft him and you get something like, "I prefer not to play for your team", so he holds out... how would that make you feel? :)


Todd

Personally, I have always resented John Elway for doing this to the Colts... and I think his actions had at least some small part in the team re-locating.

Manning's actions may eventually do the same thing to the Chargers...

That's San Diego's fault. They've been so wishy washy publicly, trying to either maxmize a trade or fool people. Obviously they are not overwhelmed by Manning and just that fact diminishes trade value of #1 anyway.

I would love the level of realism.

Actually I would yell and scream and get infuriated, but still applaud the developer for coming up with a text sim that could get me so emotionally involved.

It would be great. And if you did draft him, he'd hold out and only accept the biggest money salary. And he'd have a loyalty of "0", and get easily disgruntled. :)

And he'd get you to the Solecismic bowl 4 times, but you'd get blown out in all of them, until you finally draft that stud RB...

Shouldn't the thread title read Archie Manning doesn't want his son in San Diego. I think its kind of presumptuous to say anything else.

I don't know what Eli has done wrong.

His father said things to the Chargers about wanting him to play elsewhere (Eli has said nothing).
The Chargers decided to leak the story (so any lost leverage is their own fault).
Eli and Archie have never said that Eli will hold out if he is drafted by the Chargers.

What is wrong with expressing a preference? I know I would if I was in Eli's position. It doesn't mean I wouldn't honor the contract, just that I would prefer to play for another team. And Eli hasn't even done that.

If the Chargers had just thrown in the Craftmatic Adjustable for Archie he'd be signed.

Its called the "Rothlesberger is God" syndrome.

I find statement like this ignorant. Lets pile on Peyton for not winning a SB yet. Its his fault alone that the D sucks and that NE was allowed to piggyback on his receivers the whole game. I guess since the SB is the only measuring stick that means anything then we can all agree that Mcnair is a loser because he couldnt win one, and Mcnabb must be a complete fucking loser to have lost all of those chances to go to the SB, and in a row no less. Doug williams is a much better QB than Marino and Jim Kelly too,huh?

I have a feeling that if this player's last name was not Manning, there would be fewer people coming to his and/or his father's defense.

.

sensitive

Not sensitive, just sick and tired of the bullshit logic that people use to back up their take. It cant work both ways. You cant say that 1 QB is better than another based solely on a SB win unless you also support that guys like Marino, Kelly, Fouts, etc were losers or bad QBs

The point is that the game is played to win SBs. Sans that a QB has a signinficant chink in the armor.

You can argue pure talent all you want. Multiple SB wins trump any stats or ability arguement.

Right, because those games are decided by the QBs going one-on-one for 60 minutes. Oh wait, they're not? Perhaps other factors could be considered in the argument.

That's competely ridiculous. Are you honestly going to tell me Tom Brady is better than Dan Marino? Its a team game and teams win Super Bowls, not QBs.

The point is to win the sb. Yes it's a team sport more than any other but look at Marino for example. It's an age old arguement but in the grand scheme what good was it to have him after the first couple years? He was talented but for all that talent failed in the ultimate. Blame it on whatever you want but the reason you get the best qb is to win the whole thing...

It's a no win arguement though. Fans will line up on the side that fits their rooting interest.

Brady better than Danny? Blasphemy!

Now about those comparisons to Joe Montana.....J/K

That's true, or else he would have been signed by now. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds, but if I was a Chargers fan, I would really be ticked.

How about Winslow, Jr.'s dad telling agents if they want to represent him, pay $2500 and make a presentation. Now that's hilarious. Guess who won, although the NFL shot down the $2500 part, yep good ole Orlando Pace's agent, the Postins.


Todd

In the Pats system Brady is way better than Marino could ever be. He'd be such a prick that he'd never stand for dumping the ball and making the smart plays. You call the WR screen and he'd change it. His bravado would be his undoing.

I would stay far away from that player.

That last thought is certainly correct.

I certainly agree that the point is to win the whole thing. But to have it be the only factor in deciding a QBs worth has a whole bunch of great players below Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson. I cannot live with that. Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, Kelly, were all better players than those two. To argue otherwise is ludicrous. They are only one piece of the puzzle.

Montana was a great QB, but in several of the years he won, his teams were so good he did not need to be. Anybody could have won with that 85 team, for example someone of Dilfer's caliber.

Could you imagine if he's sitting there at #26, which I know he won't be, but oh would Martz's brain start frying.


Todd

Thank you. You and Bosco seem to understand the team concept, unlike some. I know the bottom line is to win SBs, but a players talent or greatness cannot be truly judged on wins and losses in a team game.

I agree that SD is at fault for losing leverage by leaking this story - in fact, I'm having a hard time understanding why they did that - but it now appears that Eli isn't just "expressing a preference," he's threatening to sit out the entire year if he is drafted by SD.

What possible reason could SD have for leaking that story in the first place? Was it more important to paint the Mannings in a bad light than it was to get the best possible deal for trading the #1 pick? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The only explanation that makes sense is that the Giants deal is done, and has been done for some time, and this "leak" is the way that San Diego is going to try and avoid being called The Team Burned So Bad By Ryan Leaf That They Were Too Chickenshit To Draft Either Michael Vick Or Eli Manning.

Hell, for all we know, the Mannings' public position may be part of the agreement to get their signing bonus from the Giants.

And your point would be ... ???

I agree with you, btw, but I don't find that to be particularly surprising or disturbing. They are, quite possibly, the "First Family of Football" in at least 2 and probably 3 states.

I'm 37 now, so I remember Archie running for his life on those God-awful Saints teams, I can't say I blame him one bit for trying to do whatever he can within the rules to prevent his son from suffering the same fate.

Peyton is, for me, one of the rarest people in pro football -- somebody that I actually give a damn about watching play. He's one of only two players in the league that will cause me to stop & watch (Mike Vick being the other). The big difference is that I watch Vick because, no matter what else he is or isn't, he's an incredible athlete that may do something amazing or downright unbelievable at any given moment. Manning, on the other hand, isn't the world's greatest athlete or even QB, but I actually care if he does well.

Eli has been fun to watch & had himself a nice career in the SEC. I'd certainly say I've got high hopes for his future, since I believe he will probably be at least as good as his brother.

So yes, given all that (and given that I'd be far from alone on those general takes), I'd say they'll attract more defenders/supporters than Joe Q. Quarterback from the University of Ottumwa.

Things have changed a bit. Now we know that Eli Manning does not want go to the Chargers as opposed to just Archie not wanting him to go. Eli is not just showing a preference. He is flat out refusing to sign a contract with the Chargers and will sit out the whole year. I can't see how anybody can defend this position. I understand the concern that Archie may have as a father but this is the way the draft works. Look San Diego may be in disarray right now but so is Arizona, so was Cincy, so were the Cowboys, the Pats, the Bears etc.

AND teams can turn around quickly in the modern NFL (SD could be in the Super Bowl in two years, and the Giants could be 1-15).

Could be, but the reports right now suggest the teams are not even close to adeal. Bah...who knows what the truth is!

I read this. I hereby retract everything I said yesterday indicating I thought Eli was being anything less than a prima donna jackass. I now hope the Chargers call his bluff and draft him. Although, of all potential draftees in recent memory, he is probably the most likely to actually sit out a season.

Yeah, when his bro just got a 40 million dollar signing bonus - I'm sure he can borrow a few bucks if needed.

Maybe he an Mike Williams can work out together....

I think this is a massive game of chicken going on between the Chargers and the Giants, with the Raiders, Cardinals, and half the other NFL teams watching very closely. I think the Giants are playing it cool because of the leverage they've gained with the Manning camp wussing out. They want the Chargers to get desperate.

If I was going to place a wager on this, I'd bet there's no way in hell the Chargers draft Manning at #1 (unless it's to trade him), and that they trade out of the pick.

I tihnk SD should just pass on him. I don't see him as the clear-cut #1 pick of this draft. SD obviously made him their first option, but if he doesn't want to sign with them, screw him. Choose someone else, or find a different trade partner. Who says the Giants are the only team they can trade with?

Either SD is stupid [insert joke here], or the media is portraying this as if SD is catering to Manning's wishes, when in fact, they are (or should be) looking at all of their options for the #1 pick, not just who wants Manning. When did Manning suddenly become the obvious #1 choice?

Interesting article today from Mike Wilbon concerning the situation. He basically says there isn't anything wrong with what Archie is doing because the Chargers do in fact suck. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr22.html

I really don't have a problem with what he's doing. He's playing by the rules. He has something that few draft picks have - leverage. And he's using it. If SD calls his bluff and chooses him, and he's serious about not playing for them and they're serious about taking the chance of wasting their pick on him in the hopes that he'll change his mind or they can trade him to team with enough rookie cap room to sign him, then he should sit out, and by the rules, he'll get another chance in the draft next year. He's giving up the opportunity to play now for a team he doesn't want to play for, in order to choose a better place to play.

One year of a rather short NFL career in exchange for a better choice of teams. Sounds reasonable to me.

Then, for spite's sake, maybe San Diego gets the pick again and drafts him a second time. :D

LOL

Actually, I've seen it happen in FOF 2004...

I have to say, though, it really stinks. If this were anyone but a Manning, wouldn't most of the posters rooting for him to be blackballed from the NFL? I can't see this as anything but a powerplay by the Manning family because they know they have more power by virtue of their name than any other recruit.

When ESPN first reported it, that's what came out. The story got amended later, but the TV was on when I reading the boards that day, the story broke, so I posted it.