Todd Bertuzzi breaks Steve Moore's neck
 

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1754963

Aparently they are bringing up charges on Bertuzzi. In my opinion this is idiotic. It may have been a cheap shot, but that's like bringing up charges against Warren Sapp for his blindside shot earlier this year. Hockey is a violent game, and the only game that I know of where punching somebody isn't frowned upon. Now somebody gets punched and freakishly breaks his neck, and the entire hockey world is trying to place the blame of every violent act that has ever happened in game on Todd Bertuzzi. The amount of finger pointing going on makes me sick to my stomach. I'm about positive that 100% of the players/former players calling for Bertuzzi's head have gotten in their fair share of cheap shots as well. I'm not saying what he did was right, but again IMO they are taking this way too far. Let Bertuzzi apologize, serve a suspension, and have this be over with.

If anyone missed it, there's been extensive discussion about this incident in the NHL thread.

That looks like a cheap shot to me...good grief, face first into the ice. Looks like he was already unconscious on the way down? :confused:

Whoops, sorry. I don't really check that thread as I'm not a big hockey fan.

Honestly? And this my opinion only, so don't get angry or flame me for my comments please.

I saw it countless times last night on ESPN and I think the guy meant to do it. There is no doubt about that. It was an absolute dirty rotten, no good for nothing cheap of all cheapest of cheap shots. I mean c'mon, from behind when he didn't see it coming??

Bertuzzi may have ended this kids playing career and his chance of making a living at what he is talented enough to do and that is playing hockey.

My verdict: I think Bertuzzi should be suspended without pay for however long Moore is out. If Moore misses 30-40 games, I think Bertuzzi should be out that long also.

This kind of stuff is what has turned me off from hockey, I mean I love the Stars and all but the NHL needs to tighten up and make an example out of Bertuzzi and really hand it to him. I wish they would ban guys who do these kinds of things for life from the NHL. One time would do it to and it would put a stop to it all.

I enjoy hockey because of the skill level, not for some stupid cheap shot from some guy who is obviously a coward. That hit is just sickening to watch, it really is.

I thought they were supposed to announce his punishment this morning at 9 EST. I can't find anything, yet.

The thing that works against Todd in this one is timing. The hit on Naslund by Moore was during the second period (if memory serves). Nobody on the Canucks went after him right after the hit, or any time during that game. Following the game, Crawford was lamenting how little respect the top scorer in the league got from the refs as no penalty was called (quick q: why should it matter who got hit, a penalty is a penalty is a penalty Crawford, don't cry because it was your star that got hit with no penalty call, I should hope you'd stand up for your 4th line guys in the same way).

Because of all the 'outrage' from the Canuck players following the game (even though they felt no need to back up their captain when it happened), they pretty much put a bounty out on Moore, and in light of that, Todd's act in the last game was nothing more than premeditated assault. While most infractions on the ice are spontaneous, or agreed upon fights by the enforcers, this has no place in the game. All he had to do was spin Moore around and give him the chance to defend himself and nobody would be on Bertuzzi's case about this, and hell, he probably would have pounded Moore into next week in a fair fight.

As somebody who has never been a fan of Bertuzzi, I've been trying to keep a somewhat objective viewpoint on this incident because it would be entirely too easy just to discount him completely, and while breaking Moore's neck was obviously not his intention, the entire act disgusts me, and I hope people don't forget about this any time soon.

Wasn't that when he and Crawford were going to be meeting with NHL officials? Not sure how long that kind of meeting would take, and how long it would take for said officials to dole out a punishment, but I would hope for something this afternoon.

the hearing was for 9am, but it's been delayed.
I assume it will still happen today at some point.

Under the circumstances, I'd assume that they'll try to get a decision out today. The league needs to be seen as acting quickly on this.

You know, your right, Hockey is a rough game, but comparing this to Warren Sapp? Sapps was a legitimate hit. This was a blindside punch, with Bertuzzi riding Moore down to the ice, and pushing his head into it, rendering the man unconcious.

I join a lot of the others when I say toss him out for a year.

Here's an interesting take on the incident:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=970081593064

I don't agree with Cox on much, and I think he's being a little bit over-dramatic here, but he makes some decent points.

"Moreover, Bertuzzi's coach, smirking Marc Crawford, should receive an enforced holiday, as well."

I agree 100%, not that it'll happen.
seeing him smirking on the bench after it happened is one of the most sickening things I've seen in a while.

this article mentions mcsorley's chop of brashear, what ever happened to mcsorley? I thought he got banned for that? or there were civil charges or something?

I have not yet seen this hit on tv, I just haven't caught it on espn...I'll with hold my finaly opnion until then, but from everything I've heard and read, the man ought to be tried for assault with intent to injure or whatever the highest charge of assualt might be.

this is just rediculous.

I don't quite follow hockey as avidly as I do with football...but does this Bertuzzi fellow have history for stuff like this? Is it the Romanowski equivalent of the NHL? :confused:

He received an indefinite suspension, which turned out to be one year. There were also criminal charges that resulted in a suspended sentence and community service (no jail time).

But McSorely isn't necessarily a great comparison. He was an aging player in his final year, and a fourth line role-player. Whatever you think of what he did, he was an easy guy to drop the hammer on. Nobody was going to complain too loudly if the league made an example out of him. Bertuzzi -- a young superstar on a contending team -- is a tougher call.

Bertuzzi does have a history, although nothing like this. He's been suspended for fighting-related incidents in the past, and is a guy who does play with an edge (as they say).

McSorley is currently the coach of the AHL Springfield Falcons (Coyote's farm team).
there's talk of Gretzky bringing him in to coach the 'Yotes at some point.

Great. A whole team of cheap-shotting thugs. Exactly what the NHL needs. :rolleyes:

I'm done with fighting in the NHL. I used to think it had it's place, but if they outlaw all of this...make it illegal to punch a guy delibertly, at least, maybe this sort of thing will end.

I personally think that hockey is stupid.

And yes, I'm Canadian. But let me make a correction, I think the NHL is stupid. In the NHL penalties are considered good. Bertuzzi is leading his team in penalty minutes, and that means that he has an "edge". But how many power plays has he given his opposition, and in turn how many goals did it cost them?

That's like if in the NFL a DL keeps getting false starts. "He's really anxious to get into the play!", the NHL announcers would say. The truth is he's costing you yards.

I'm all for the sport of hockey. The sport where speed, skill, shooting gets you goals. And good hitting gives you an advantage in the open ice and corners. I'm totally against what the NHL represents today ... neutral zone traps, goons, cheap shots and fights. I think that makes a good sport into the most boring show on the planet.

And I also think that the NHL is asking for things like this to happen. By encouraging fighting and considering it part of the game, you're giving people an outlet for their anger and frustration. And people get carried away, causing incidents like this.

Sorry if I offend anybody with this attitude.

I think there's a difference between standard hockey fighting and criminally assaulting someone. There's a line there, even if you are playing sports when it happens.

He should be suspended until Moore comes back. If Moore doesn't come back then niether does Todd

Is this a result of fighting? Moore's injury wasn't a result of a fight, in fact it was the opposite, the result of not fighting. I am not saying that Moore should have fought Bertuzzi or deserved what he got for not dropping the gloves.

There is the old argument to be made that if the instigator rule wasn't in place, this sort of thing would have been dealt with weeks ago when it happened. Someone would have immediately dropped the gloves, there would have been a "fair" or at least face-to-face fight (likely resulting in little to no injury) and the would have been it. It wouldn't have had to come of this. In fact, Moore's fight with Matt Cooke should have been the end of it. Bertuzzi acted like an idiot.

I can see the argument being made that if fighting weren't apart of the game, Bertuzzi wouldn't have punched him and the like. Well, that may be true, may be he just would have taken his stick to him or something along those lines.

Bertuzzi's action was horrible. There is no defense for it. It mars the sport. That being said, I still think there is a place for fighting in the game.

I don't think this would have gotten half as overblown as it did if Moore only wound up with a broken nose and a bad headache. I have seen nastier shots that resulted in next to nothing as far as injuries go. I was comparing this to the Warren Sapp incident because of the seriousness of the injury, and the fact that neither of the recipients were looking when it came. That is the only comparison I was intending to make. Sapp did not blast that guy from the front, nor was it from behind, but it was kind of behind/from the side.

Travis from my understanding they weren't allowed to do anything that game by their coach. 2 minute instigating and 10 minute misconduct goes to the instigator in that situation.

That instigator penality in my opinion has allowed hockey to turn into a sport of cheap shots. Back in the day, you thought twice about taking shots at stars because their was retribution to be paid. If you saw moores hit on naslund it wasn't clean either.

Hockey is a sport for a warriors mentality but Bettman has come in ruined it all.

Is there a link of the hit on video? Other then ESPN?

The same thing has happened to basketball, and has ruined the NBA (and is working on ruining the college game) for me.

"There is the old argument to be made that if the instigator rule wasn't in place, this sort of thing would have been dealt with weeks ago when it happened. "

That's exactly what I'm against. People think that fighting is the resolution to everything in hockey. There's no instigator rule in basketball, but do you see people deliberately taking people out at the knees, or mugging people from behind? Nah, because they know that it's not part of the game and that they'll get punished for their actions.

the one I saw was
http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf277/04...hots_moore.wmv
but it seems to be hosed at the moment

You make some good points. But with the exception of the trap, none of the things you mentioned are new to the NHL. In fact, there's been far less fighting and brawling in the past ten years than in just about any era in league history.

You could certainly argue that any fighting is too much, but implying that the NHL is turning into a more violent game isn't really accurate.

And that is why I will never care about the NHL. I love college hockey but the NHL holds zero interest. Yawn.

Funny. I'm the exact opposite. I even went to a big time college hockey school (we won the National Championship while I was there). I enjoyed, but the college game pales in comparison to the NHL. Fighting is one very small difference. The other is simply talent and speed. The gap between the level of talent and speed in the NHL and that in college hockey is enormous. After growing up watching the NHL, I find college hockey almost frustrating to watch at times.

Point #1. There are quite a few fights in basketball also.

Point #2. The NBA is scripted almost as bad as the WWF

Point #3. Basketball is not a contact sport like hockey.

Point #4. There are quite a few fights in Rugby and Lacrosse both games that have similiar play styles to hockey.

Wow, all your points are wrong. Impressive quad.

There is no sport, that I am aware of, in which fighting is a part of the game, like it is in hockey (except maybe professional indoor lacrosse, but I can't recall). Even if there are fights in some sports (rugby, football, lacrosse) the combatants will most certainly be ejected.

I think it's a fair argument that hockey players are more likely to punch one another as a reaction to some injustice than other sports because figthing is legal and has always been a big part of the game. It filters down to the college level and other junior level leagues where fighting is banned.

I may be alone in this, but I would much rather see two hockey players drop the gloves and fight each other than:
- Football players slashing their throats, riding imaginary ponies and crotch-chopping each other after every play
- Two basketball players trying to act tough for the camera while making sure their teammates are holding them back
- A baseball "brawl" with two guys hugging and 50 others running onto the field, including relievers in their slippers

How can you say that?

Are you saying there aren't fights in basketball? Ok whatever.

Sure, I was being sarcastic about the scripting of the NBA, but look at Jordans last championship run against Birds Pacers where the officials decided the game so Jordan could goto another final. Looks real bad.

Basketball is no where close to being a contact sport like hockey. You can't check? Not sure what you are talking about.

Every watch Rugby or Lacrosse either box style or outdoor. There are ALOT of fights in both of those events.

So please try and think before posting thank you.

From my understanding of Rugby, you don't get ejected for fighting you get in a penalty box of sorts. I could be wrong, I don't know all the rules even though I watch it any chance I get on fox world sports. I know I saw some punches thrown in the rugby world cup and the players weren't ejected.

Long time Flyer Fan from the Philly area. If there was no fighting, the broad street bullies would of never won :(

Mota's post was about the instigator rule, not fighting in hockey vis a vis other sports.

Can you imagine how fun it would be to watch the talent and speed in the NHL playing hockey with rules similar to the college game? But it'll never happen so I'll contine to not care about the NHL.

you are not alone.

Fact - there have been more of these incidents since the instigator rule was introduced. Fighting had a place in the game, they removed that without any thought of the consequences because they were trying to pander to a new market.

For me, hockey is (or was) about skill, big hits and fights. My opinion and an opinion that many hockey fans share. Call me a neanderthal or whatever but I don't see why my opinion is any less valid than yours.

The real problem in hockey is that the superstars have gone. Gretzky, Lemeiux, Orr etc... were all incredibly talented, down to earth guys who performed night in and night out. They were the reason people were drawn to hockey. The league has overexpanded and the talent has run thin... can anyone name one guy nowadays who you would actually pay good money to see?

dola - great post by Maple Leafs. Sums up what I wanted to say.

The Rugby argument... there might be less out and out fights in Rugby but there is 2x the violence and serious injuries that there are in hockey. Stamping, gouging, biting etc.... I know which sport I would rather stay away from if I hated violence

Maple Leafs, you are right. But comparing today's game of hockey with the 1-1 ties against the 5-4 games of the 80's is a whole different thing. Man, it was fun to watch the Penguins power play, or see the Oilers just skating up and down the rink like mad. That is good hockey. Give me skilled hockey over today's junk anytime.

My example about basketball was just that. I'm not a big enough fan of basketball to tell you how many fights you see. However I am 100% sure that the teams don't carry a "fight" player on their roster that they only bring out to get in fights with the other team's "fight" player. That's a pretty big difference IMO.

And using the fact that hockey is a contact sport as an excuse is completely wrong. If they allowed fighting in football and gave each player a 5 yard penalty (thus cancelling itself out), imagine how stupid that would be to watch ... but somehow the NFL keeps it under control. The whole fighting thing makes the NHL look amateur-ish, and IMO makes the target demographic of the sport the drunken redneck.

The NHL wishes they could get the drunken redneck, then they might get ratings similar to NASCAR. As it stands the NHL's target demographic is Canadians, which is sort of like drunken rednecks only we can't wear tank-tops most of the year. :D

Mota - do you think Gretzky would have been the same player and lasted as long as he did without Semenko and McSorley? Teams wouldn't go near him because they knew if they did they would have to pay for it. Same for Yzerman playing on the same line as Probert and to some extent Lemeiux having Caufield in Pittsburgh.

I want the 80's back as much as you, but you forget the 80's was the heyday of the enforcer/goon/whatever you want to call it. Fighting was a deterrant and it worked and stars and skill players knew they could play their game in peace. Then the league overexpanded and changed it's rules and you have the product you have today.

And now suddenly fighting is the cause of 80% of the leagues problems and if only we could get rid of it hockey would be the biggest sport in America and everyone would watch it. Bullshit. That's what Bettman wants you to think because he's made a complete pigs ear of the league and now 25 out of 30 teams are going bust.

One simple rule change: everyone wears college-style helmets, take them off voluntarily and it's a match penalty.

We had a situation where if Bertuzzi weren't stopped, there would have been a dead or permanently paralyzed player on the ice. How much further does it have to go?

Many people say fighting restores honor to the ice, that there would be cheap shots galore if not for the threat of some unskilled goon dropping his gloves and flattening your nose.

But if you're wearing a full face mask, and the EXISTING stick rules and obstruction rules are called properly, all that's left are clean, hard shots. Kinda like the one that got Moore into trouble in the first place.

My point is that (and I don't know who was on the ice at the time of the incident), if this was as bad as the Canuck players/coaches were making it out to be, there would have been an immediate response right after the hit. Instigator wouldn't have happened, as it would have been whomever was on the ice coming to the defense of their captain (was Bertuzzi on the ice at that point?). Odds are also that Moore would have been willing to dance with whoever came and challenged him (as he seemed willing to last night), again, waiving the instigator if it's done the 'right' way.

I've rooted against the Canucks since the days of Bertuzzi and Brashear, and now Crawford is firmly on that list as well. As much as I like seeing the things Naslund, Linden, Jovanovski and Ohlund can do, until those two are gone, I'll root against them every game (of course being in the same division as the Oiler's is a driving factor as well).

I'm upset with all the ESPN hockey guys who are saying that this is only an NHL matter and that what happens in a fight should be immune to prosecution. How they equate what Bertuzzi did to a fight is beyond be. A fight is when 2 people try to hit eachother. When someone jumps the other person without a chance for retalation, its assault and being a pussy.

I remember in the 80's when Tocket and Brown came out on the ice before a Bruins game during the playoffs, to stop the ritual of the puck being shot in the oposing teams goal before the game. Just out there in suspenders and there was a huge brawl before the game.

The neutrel zone trap and the clutching and grabbing are what slowed the game of hockey down.

BTW Hockey should of never expanded like they did. They had a solid market with teams in the north east and central part of America. Hockey needs to adopt a salary cap and institute some sort of revenue sharing if they want it to survive or markets like Canada simply won't be able to afford to field quality teams any longer. Its happening now and its a shame.

Heck, do you know how they advertise hocky down here in Houston? Some red neck guy saying, Guys with sticks that hit and every once in a while someone gets a whoopin.

They actually had a guaranteed fight night for the minor league team down here. If there wasn't a fight you would get the next game free. They got into trouble for it and had to take the offer back and make it guaranteed win night. This is the Houston Aeros btw.

Hockey is a great sport and the 70's and 80's are the best examples of the sport to date. They attempted to change the rules to make it play more like basketball but its not basketball. Betmen sucks and needs to go.

BTW. I find the NHL all star game boring. That is what hockey would be if they took out all the hitting and fighting. No thanks.

Funny, this would pretty much eliminate half the concussions (as long as they enforce the helmets being worn properly with a secured chin strap), eye injuries, broken noses, losing a player for multiple shifts while he's being sewn up, etc, etc.

Yet the 'jock code' says as soon as you hit the NHL, off comes the cage or visor. It still baffles me how many players use lame excuses for not wearing even a half visor considering how many possible injuries it would prevent and how many years it may add to their career.

As sad as it sounds, this should be one of the first rule changes the NHL should implement as it would give those players without enough of a backbone to just don the shield on their own an excuse as to why they have it on.

Safety in the workplace and the equipment to ensure it, funny how the NHL is light year's behind on this.

Travis - instigator would definitely have happened in this situation. It's exactly this situation that renders the penalty so useless. The Canucks players cannot "go" after Moore and drop the gloves or they are out of the game... so the situation festers and lo and behold someone cheap shots him.

Moore was only willing to drop the gloves the other night with another lightweight, because he knew Brookbank, Bertuzzi or May would have killed him.

Again, sorry to harp on about this but 10 years ago, Moore fights somebody because there is no instigator penalty. That lets the air out of the situation and you don't get the end product... which is another player resorting to a cheap shot because he feels there is no other way to avenge the hit on his captain.

Many people argue that the cages encourage more violence...

I thought moores shot wasn't clean?

Hockey is a fast moving sport all about vision and reactions, and most players don't wear the mask because they feel it hinders them in some way.

The only way you are going to get them to wear it is to make it mandatory, and the players union won't have it. It's easy to sit back and criticise, but if a player doesn't want to wear a mask because it feels it hinders his game who is anyone else to say he can't?

Blue et all,

I see your points about fighting...I really do. But these sort of things need to stop, and I'm at a loss for what to do. Outlawing fighting is definately a knee-jerk reaction, but I couldn't think of any other solution, and this whole situation has left me feeling sick.

What people don't seem to get is that what seperates hockey from sports like basketball and football is that everyone on the ice is carrying a weapon: their stick. It is so simple to hack away at another player without getting caught that fighting is really the only deterrent: if some little weasel chops away like mad at a star when the ref isn't looking, then he gets pummelled mercilously by the star's goon. Most people don't like getting pummelled, so they don't chop away. When the NHL put in the instigator it made it harder to pummel the offender. Now the goon either fights the weasel's goon (umm, that deters the weasel how?) or else he gets kicked out of the game and after a couple instances suspended. So what is the way to respond? Oh ya, whack him right back with your stick.

Why do you think high sticking occurs multiple times per game? Why do you think that even though everyone wears helmets and many wear visors there are more eye injuries than ever in the NHL? Why do you think power forwards need to wear flack jackets and players equipment is like body armor now? These issues have all become epidemics over the last 10-15 years, and it doesn't surprise me that this coincides with the NHL's attempt to stop fighting.

From what I understand, Bertuzzi was trying to get Moore to square off with him but Moore wanted no part of him and was skating away so Bertuzzi clocked him from behind. Moore should of just manned up and fought him.

I don't think there are many people making a case that hitting should be removed from the game. I love seeing good, hard, clean hits. But fighting has no place in sport.

All due respect to the NHLPA, but what happened to Moore can not happen again.

NASCAR requires modifications that improve the safety of cars, but slows them down a bit. Helmets with cages would do the same with hockey players.

At first, there might be more stupid penalties and more violence, but gradually, the idiots who can't keep their tempers and think any hard hit is an insult to the team's manhood would be weeded out of the league.

Obviously, the stuff we see every game - the hooking, slashing, cross-checking, the blatant obstructions - would have to be called every time. And that would be annoying at first.

But the end result, perhaps a half-season away, would be a cleaner, faster product with less severe injuries. A product people would feel comfortable taking their kids to (I might add that I saw my first NHL game in person at age 20 - my dad, who was taking me to football and baseball games from the time I was 3, thought hockey was a sport for thugs, and refused to go).

With the long labor recess expected to futz up the 2004-05 season, that would be the perfect time to make that kind of major change. I think in the long run, it would expand the viewership of a sport that's having a hard time finding fans right now.

This is ridiculous.

You are an idiot. That is flat out wrong.

The issue of the work stoppage could punish Bertuzzi for his stupidity for even longer than the length of his impending suspension. If he's suspended for a year and the NHL has a work stoppage, his cheap shot just cost him 2 years of a very profitable career. Bertuzzi's lights may be on, but no one's home.

Umm I used to goto wings games all the time and there a ton of fights. They just fought with cages on.

[sarcasm]
I remember in high school there was a bitch and wouldn't have sex with me, so when she went home I took her into the woods and raped her. She should have just slutted up and fucked me.
[/sarcasm]

It was, and even Naslund stated this. The problem with it was that Naslund was in a comprosmised position (stretched out for the puck), and Moore clocked him, but made contact with pretty much just Naslund's head instead of shifting to catch him more in the body. The problem with the hit was more one of respect for the person taking the hit so-as to hit them, and hard, but in a safe way rather than rattling his head around.

And on the comment of Bertuzzi trying to get Moore to square off with him, even if that did happen, it does not in any way justify what Bertuzzi did. Lots of guys have dropped the gloves to see the other guy just cover up and accept a beating, hoping for the linesmen to jump in quickly, if nothing else, that's what Bertuzzi should have done.

The sad part is imaging what might have happened if none of Moore's team mates had been as close to him when this happened as they were. Bertuzzi never got off another punch after they hit the ice, or this could have been so much worse.

Box is not outdoor, read my post moron.

The league looked at Moore's hit on Naslund and deemed it clean. Not sure if that's definitive, but it should have been the end of the controversy.

When the 'Nucks were in Colorado earlier, nothing happened to Moore. Seems unusually cowardly that Bertuzzi waited until the end of the game back in Vancouver before jumping him.

I used to cover minor league hockey, for The Seattle Times among other papers. One image I can't shake is a 15-year-old rookie for a team visiting Seattle was jumped and forced to fight an over-age (each team was allowed to have a couple of 18-year-old goons) player. He got the crap beat out of him, while 4,000 people stood and cheered as if this was some sort of wonderful entertainment.

The kid was only 15. And that's considered just part of the sport. If hockey really is interested in becoming mainstream (which it should be, it's a wonderful sport when you take away the violence), it can not allow that sort of thing. It can't treat the kids that way.

Have you ever played Hockey? Do you know how frustrating it is when little cheapshot artists slash at you, hold you hit your from behind, throw elbows etc. But, then when you goto confront them they run away and hide?

Moore had no problem fighting someone else earlier, but when it was someone he knew would put a beating on him he ran.

Castlerock - I don't see you crusading against boxing, ultimate fighting, wrestling, many martial arts that are all classified as sports where the actual aim is to beat the hell out of the other guy.

Jim - there have been many attempts to call every little instance of hooking, obstruction, holding etc... and the league has been behind every one. Each time I've heard "it will be tough at the beginning but once the players get used to it we'll have a better game" and every single time the experiment has been scrapped 20 games into the season because the product is unwatchable. Fans don't want to see players skating unmolested up and down the ice and 25 goals a game - that's what the All Star game and European hockey is all about and nobody watches them. People want to see a hard hitting, exciting game where nobody gets hurt and there aren't any cheap shots. I don't see why those 2 things have to be mutually exclusive.
The other issue I have with what you said was that a cage wouldn't have stopped the Moore incident, might have stopped the concussion but not the broken neck - you can't legislate for a cheap shot like that. It's not like it only happens in hockey - many more football players have suffered broken necks on helmet to helmet hits but nobody suggests all players should wear full face cages or extra neck padding because it would make positions like DB and WR much harder to play.

I think there is a simple way to stop what is happening - ban the protagonists for life. Won't happen with Bertuzzi because he is a poster boy and a good player but if you knew that kind of cheapshot would get you kicked out of the league you wouldn't do it. Way too simple a solution for it to actually happen though.

By ignoring Bertuzzi, the chances were that he would put his team on the powerplay. Instead, Bertuzzi went into a rage and tried to kill him.

Please refrain from the name calling. It isn't nessessary is it? I've seen outdoor lacrosse games where there were fights btw. They happen but more as a brawl or scuffle you would see in soccer, basketball, football, baseball etc.

Now Pro Box lacrosse is alot different and is playe like hockey.

The professional game is a little different than the lacrosse Hajek played in college. For one thing, it's played indoors, which really didn't require much of an adjustment for Hajek, who grew up playing box lacrosse indoors in Canada. For another thing, the players are allowed to fight, and Hajek, who is 5-foot-10 and weighs 185 pounds, has shown already that he won't be pushed around or intimidated. "I've been in a little scuffle," he allowed. As far as the fighting goes, he said, "I compare it a lot to hockey. I don't enjoy it, but I understand it." But Hajek is far from a hostile young fellow. He enjoys his sport and being with people who play it for a part-time living. "It's a real nice, tight community," he said, of people who are "real passionate" about lacrosse.

If it was a close game I would buy that, but the game was out of reach at that time.

When you stop talking out of your ass I'll stop calling you names.

If moore didn't break his neck we wouldn't be having this discussion. Yes, it sucks he broke his neck, but it was a freak occurance. You can't decide on how serious something is based on who gets hurt. What Bertuzzi did was wrong, but it should a suspension for a few games then back to business.

Fights DO Happen in Outdoor lacrosse and there are quite a few pushing matches that take place also. Its just not part of the game as it is in hockey and box lacrosse.

So again please little one calm yourself down.

The Bertuzzi incident looks bad. I agree with Sach on that. You can't help but feel sick when you watch it. Not only because of what happened to Moore, but because it's watching the game you love turn ugly and become forever marred.

The fighting can be a bit of a spectacle. It does turn people off to the sport. But fighting is not the reason for the vast majority of injuries in the NHL. The only incident I know where a player was paralyzed was in COLLEGE hockey. That kid from Boston (or maybe Boston College) was wearing the full helmet and shield, was hit from behind, and that was it. Most of the injuries come from seemingly clean hits (e.g., Scott Stevens), errant use of the stick, slashing (e.g., deliberate use of the stick), pucks in the face, knee-to-knee hits, etc. I have known players to get concussed from figthing, Steve Smith broke his leg once (it was a freak thing, just the way he landed), broken noses, jaws, orbital bones, lost teeth, cuts, etc. Those are usually the worst of what happens in a fight.

Fighting doesn't really make the sport more dangerous. (In fact, as I and some others have raised, there are many who think fighting makes the sport safer in a way, because it cuts down on the stick work, cheap shots, etc. A self-policing mechanism). It does, at times, tarnish its image though.

First of all, I'm not upset.

Secondly, I never said fights DON'T happen in outdoor lacrosse. I was saying that you don't know what you're talking about by saying they happen ALOT as you so eloquently put it.

Agreed, not to mention what bertuzzi did wasn't really what most would consider a fight.

and yes Quik, I know it's A LOT. :)

I'm curious, would you still say a few game suspension had Moore ended up permanently paralyzed or dead (still hard to say what would have happened if Bertuzzi would have had time to get 2 or 3 more punches in after they hit the ice). Yes, he wasn't intending on breaking Moore's neck, but you can bet your last dollar he was intending to hurt the kid is some way, he didn't jump him like that as a gentle reminder that his hit on Naslund wasn't very nice.

This wasn't a rage problem, it was premeditated and something Bertuzzi had been working up to all game. If the suspension is anything under 20 games, I for one would be very surprised.

I've been to three outdoor lacroose games in my life. 1 of them had a fight, 1 had a guy wacking someone with a stick then they wrestled around a bit. The third had a big pushing and shoving match. That is what I based it on.

To answer a lot of the people here quickly:

-Bertuzzi's hit was cheap as hell, but doesn't warrant criminal action. Are you going to file charge against everyone who wins a fight? What if Bertuzzi had faught Moore straight up, and Moore neck broke when they went to the ice? Would Bertuzzi be up on criminal charges?

I've seen a ton of cheapshots worse than Bertuzzi's, it just so happens that Moore hit the ice wrong. Tim Hunter comes to mind...Dale hunter comes to mind...Hell, Matt Johnson (I believe he's on the Wild now) ended Jeff Beukeboom's career hitting punching him squarely in the back of the head and knocking him out cold. Ended his career. 12 game suspension.

-Cages: Simply put, they suck.

-Visors: I never liked wearing one, and I know a lot of guys don't...but I think it's inevitable that the NHL will go to a mandatory visor league.

-the NHL: A joke compared to what it was in the 80's and early-90's...more a result of the traps, locks, and officials not calling the obstruction/holding that takes place every shift than anything.

The NHL is a sad joke of the sport that I got into when I was 6.

-To those that say this is turning kids off to the sport...well what sport did you think this is? This is a violent sport. This is a rough sport. I can tell you from first hand experience (I played for 15 years, and 1 season of Jr. A) that sometimes you just get caught up on the ice...and you always regret it after, but it's pretty insane when you're out there sometimes...

"little one"?

I think you should show him what a real lacrosse check is, T.

Three is one hell of a sample size.

Actually even in a fight with 2 people it is assault for both individuals.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You are making claims of fact based on 3 actual events? Nice.

:)

I guess here is the point Travis. If Moore didn't get anything other then a swollen jaw or a busted nose / black eye etc. There wouldn't be this outcry. Only because of the seriousness of the freak accident are we even talking about this.

If it was a straight fight between two guys on the rink and one guy died even though they both dropped the gloves, it would still be a 5 minute major I would assume. So whatever the penality would be if Moore just broke a fingernail should be the same as it is for him breaking his neck.

If you want to say all cheapshots like that should be 20 games then fine go with that. But, to say this cheapshot is only 2 games this one is 10 games, this one is 2 years is not consistant.

I believe this is the same problem that Roenick brought up earlier in the season with inconsistant calls and suspension policies.

FYI, I saw one of the craziest fights I've ever seen at an indoor lacrosse game...and I've probably seen over 1,000 live hockey games, and maybe 50 lacrosse games...it's a pretty rough sport.

You would assume that if You only goto 3 games of a sporting event and if it was that rare of an occurance, there wouldn't be this type of action at each one.

Btw if you can't tell 3 out of 3 is a 100%

I'll call your lacrosse check and raise you a hockey fight. :)

whacking someone with a stick and then wrestling around a bit? sounds like a regular evening subby trying to crawl into fritz' pussy

Indoor (Box) lacrosse is a lot different than outdoor. You don't have to tell me lacrosse is rough, I play and coach. :) All I was saying is that fights do not happen "ALOT" in the outdoor game. :) Now, maybe the professional outdoor game is different....

You're going to facewash me, pull my jersey and then punch my helmet?

this reminds me of the joke where the farmers are arguing over a duck and decide to kick each other in the balls to see who would get it

the first farmer nails the other's nuts squarely and then lets him keep the duck

So you're telling me if a Rich Kotite-coached team started the year 3-0, it would prove he's a Hall of Fame coach and you'd sign him to a 10 year contract?

Wouldn't anyone?

Don't make me get the feta-gang in here, or force Wig to expel you from the WigFL. :)

druez should argue about something he knows about...like football text sims.

Oh wait...