So, to be clear, the system is selling without much online support, hence online play isn't important?

FWIW.....I'm mostly a single-player gamer, so I wouldn't mind if that were the case. Unfortunately, that's likely not the situation.

Rockstar Table Tennis got awful initial impressions, so no big loss.

Remember that online isn't really the focus of the Wii. One of the central concepts Nintendo was going for is to bring people together in one place. Online works against that to a degree. It isn't much of a surprise that EVERY game isn't online. The important ones are/will be online, though (Strikers, Brawl, Madden, FIFA, etc.)

That was the company line, but that was just an excuse for the fact that they didn't get online development tools out there nearly quick enough. It's worked out for them so far, but they had no intentions of having the online component lacking to this degree nearly a year into the console's life.

Nonsense, it is more than the company line. Read interviews with the designers and creators of the system.

I'd love to see some article pre-release articles where they stated that online play is not a focus of the console.

In related news, Jack Trenton suggested in a recent article that Sony execs knew before the PS3 release date that the PS3 might lag in sales over the first year.

Remember, he's used to reading interviews from Sony folks, so he just ignores everything said in those interviews as useless :D

I did not say they stated online play is not a focus. It shouldn't be too hard to find articles and interviews about what the focus is. This is not exactly news. This was not a company line.

I'm actually surprised someone is disputing this. I thought everyone knew that was the whole plan for the Wii. Anyway, just a few minutes of reading should clear that right up.

Great. Where is that reading? I remember multiple articles where developers complained that Nintendo hadn't released their online development tools even after the Wii release. I don't remember any Nintendo execs coming out to say 'Well, that's because we're focusing on play in the home'.

Listen, there's a lot to like about the Wii and that's understandable, but the online piece of the system has been deplorable thus far.

Sigh.

I did not say that the reason online was delayed was because they are focussing on play in the home. I said that is what their focus is, so it should not be surprising when most games are not focussing online. This really isn't hard.

And you can't be serious about where is the reading. Seriously, this is NOT hard stuff to find. Any interview with the designers will do. How can you not know what the focus for the Wii was? Seriously, how?

Nevertheless, if I happen across something and I think about you, I'll throw you a bone. There really isn't any excuse for being that ignorant about the Wii, though.

Seriously, they were saying that crap when they first unveiled the Wii controller and new name. They took crap for it even then.

They've been taking more crap for it since we've seen the abortion known as 'friend codes,' but yeah, this is hardly 'news'.

I guess it was silly of me to not point out that the NAME of the system, Wii, was partly based on its appearance, two game controllers, the ii, also signifying two people. Live multiplayer. The whole system was named after this concept.

For your reading pleasure, as well:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...dos_wii_w.html

Well, I guess I just figured that they meant the way Tecmo Bowl and Tecmo Super Bowl were was "simulation" not "arcade".

SI

Yeah I've read there is some terrible lag involved in the swing, doesn't sound good at all.

How do you make a table tennis game and get the swing wrong? Who decides to send the game out the door in that shape?

That's like making a chess game and getting the chess wrong.

Here's the one I read:

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/i...fm?artid=14403

Exactly. That's called a company line. Some execs sat in a room for days thinking that up.

Listen, the online portion of the Wii is an absolute abortion with the 'friend codes' and lack of developer support. It makes the PS3's online look good in comparison. There's a lot of Wii gamers who would love to play against human opponents when they aren't available in your home. Currently, they have no way to do that and Nintendo can't explain that away by saying.....

"Well, it was called the Wii because it looks like and 'image of people gathering to play', so it was intended to be played in the home. Online, despite the inclusion of a fully functioning ethernet connection, friend codes, and an online store, was never intended to be used at any major level. We encourage people to bring over their friends so we don't have to bother making online the fully functional component it was meant to be in the first place."

FCC report released detailing the specs of the new PS3 for the technically inclined. More importantly, systems generally come out 2 months after the FCC report is issued, so expect the rumored 40 GB PS3 to come out in mid to late November.

The FCC filing says that the new SKU has at least:

1 x HDMI Port
1 x AV Port
1 x LAN Port
2 x USB Ports
SIXAXIS controller
Bluetooth Ver. 2.0+EDR
WLAN 802.11b/g

Differences compared to previous SKUs:

It draws less current; Now only rated 3A down from the previous 3.2A

Bluetooth is the same version as before, however the Antenna gain is increased on Antenna1 from 0.21dBi (max) in the original 60Gb, up to 3.83dBi (max) in the new SKU. Antenna2 also sees an increase, from 4.13dBi (max) up to 4,92 dBi (max).

WLAN is still 802.11b/g, however there is a difference in Antenna gain too. ANT0 is now 0.69dBi from 0.10dBi previously, and ANT1 is now -0.26dBi from 0.91dBi.

Really good CAGcast available this morning. Has a full summary of events/games at the Tokyo Game Show. Also, one of the guys got a copy of Halo 3 before the release date and has some early impressions. He's already finished with 6 out of the 9 chapters in the single player campaign.

Right click on the link and select 'Save Target as' to save it to your HDD.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/cagca.../cagcast91.mp3

August NPD numbers are out.

Wii: 403,600
Nintendo DS: 383,300
Xbox 360: 276,700
PlayStation 2: 202,000
PlayStation Portable: 151,200
Playstation 3: 130,600
GBA 69,500

Interesting Armchair article this month.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/level...gust-2007.aspx

Some summary points.......

-360 had same percentage sales boost as the PS3 when prices dropped.
-Halo 3 needs to boost console sales in September. Anything less than 400K for the month would be a disappointment.
-PS3 sales drop lower. Expect the $399 PS3 by November.
-SCEI has relinquished pricing decisions to the regional arms of the corporation. So price drops in Asia, Europe and NA will all be separate and unrelated.
-Continued frustration over lack of Wii games and online support. Madden was only third-party game in the top 20.
-Unsure whether PS3 games this fall will drum up much buzz.
-Sony is targeting 2008 for their move. Both analysts expect a big 2008 for the PS3. Revamped marketing campaign in 2008 expected.
-Both think that Call of Duty 4 will do very well.
-Both say 360 must really do well this holiday season to avoid disappointment.

PS3 looking good in preseason.

Genius, this was back in APRIL. Well before the release of the console. This was not something made up when they realized that they weren't going to be able to get online ready in time. That's all I'm saying. Sheesh. Of course it's a company line when it is the company saying it.

Just wow.

Fixed. ;)

The Armchair QB article stated exactly what I said earlier. I don't think the lack of games and online support are an industry secret.

In the context of the article, that would likely make this fall the regular season for the Xbox 360. They need to win now.

They already have.

Wii: 403,600
Nintendo DS: 383,300
Xbox 360: 276,700
PlayStation 2: 202,000
PlayStation Portable: 151,200
Playstation 3: 130,600
GBA 69,500

Wii continues to dominate. PS3 continues to suck. No new news here.



-360 had same percentage sales boost as the PS3 when prices dropped.

But is far more likely to have sustained success because of Halo 3 and other big titles coming out this holiday season, combined with the complete lack of competition from the PS3.

-Halo 3 needs to boost console sales in September. Anything less than 400K for the month would be a disappointment.

So anything less than what the Wii is doing would be a disspointment? Sorry, I don't buy it. Halo will have an impact in sales, but I don't think it's armegeddon if the 360 sells 300k units next month.

-PS3 sales drop lower. Expect the $399 PS3 by November.

If Sony has a brain. Which as of now, they've shown they have none.

-Continued frustration over lack of Wii games and online support. Madden was only third-party game in the top 20.

Yeah, I can see by the sales that people are getting very frustrated with the Wii. It's obvious.

-Unsure whether PS3 games this fall will drum up much buzz.

I'm pretty sure about it. the answer is NO, they won't. Unless there is some monster sleeper hit nobody is talking about.

-Sony is targeting 2008 for their move. Both analysts expect a big 2008 for the PS3. Revamped marketing campaign in 2008 expected.

Duh. There is no doubt they are gearing up for 2008 at this point. It's not like they have a choice in the matter. With no A+ titles due out, all they can do now is to try to wait out the storm.

-Both think that Call of Duty 4 will do very well.

Hey, I think Halo will do well too. Not making fun of you here, it's just obvious. COD4 would sell well if it was total crap. All indications are that it will be pretty damned good. There is no question it'll sell well. (and probably be lights out on the PS3 because of the lack of other options.

-Both say 360 must really do well this holiday season to avoid disappointment.

They are already clipping the PS3 at a 2.1-1 ratio. That's likely going to jump near 3-1 and maybe even 3.5-1 in the next few months. I don't think the 360 has a lot of dissapointment it needs to worry about.

No offense to you since you're quoting this stuff from an article, but this is clearly more Sony bias stuff.

They knock the Wii and a comment about some apparent frustrations, yet it dominates sales and has more great 1st party games coming out soon. Its like the anti-wii people are just waiting for sales to take a massive drop. One year later.....

The 360 doesn't have to do anything. They've already surpassed expecations and then some. They probably will dominate the holiday sales, but to be honest if you told Microsoft 2 years ago that they'd be in the position they're in now Bill Gates would do cartwheels outside Microsoft offices.

Sony has to target '08 for their move. They have no choice. However, that doesn't mean its going to happen. They still have to put out games and actually not look like mouth-breathing idiots before that happens.

I know Troy said a lot of this stuff before me, but I'm just reiterating. This is painfully obvious stuff with a pro-sony spin on it.

I'm trying to decide on if I want to splash out $350 for the 360 Premium edition. The problem with the 360 and PS3 is they are trying to create entertainments systems, which is fine, but does it matter? People buy these systems for gaming. Just not cut out the extras, while maintaining the specs that create great gaming potential? Pass the savings on to a new market of customers that are staying away from the system.

Another problem is the era of licenses. EA Sports owns the NFL License (which is a premier "platform" for any US gaming system to have good success) and NCAA (I always though the use of public universities (most of Division 1 couldn't be licensed)? I know the bowls, BCS, ect. could be licensed. I mean, Sega is making the EA Sports hockey, hoops franchises better by giving them competition.

But is far more likely to have sustained success because of Halo 3 and other big titles coming out this holiday season, combined with the complete lack of competition from the PS3.

There are still 8 exclusive titles to be released on the PS3. A price cut is rumored in November. If the price cut doesn't happen, I agree. Regardless, there's a lot that is still to come. I don't expect the PS3 to beat the 360 by any means, but I do expect it to stay much closer than you expect, which is what they need to do.

So anything less than what the Wii is doing would be a disspointment? Sorry, I don't buy it. Halo will have an impact in sales, but I don't think it's armegeddon if the 360 sells 300k units next month.

I don't think it would be 'armegeddon' either, but it would definitely be a disappointment if a cheaper 360 + Halo 3 only netted them an additional 30K units over August.

Yeah, I can see by the sales that people are getting very frustrated with the Wii. It's obvious.

I've listened to 4 gaming podcasts this week with TGS wrap-ups in addition to reading the Armchair QB. Every one of them either noted the lack of games or made a wisecrack about the online features of Nintendo. Third-party developers are having significant second thoughts after the disappointing sales figures of Boogie and Metroid. Certainly, Boogie was not that good of a game, but there's no reason that Metroid should only sell 200K units.

I'm pretty sure about it. the answer is NO, they won't. Unless there is some monster sleeper hit nobody is talking about.

Sony's got to put out a good game before people even bother. I did see that Ratchet & Clank has two reviews coming out later this week and they're expected to be 90+, so that's a start.

Duh. There is no doubt they are gearing up for 2008 at this point. It's not like they have a choice in the matter. With no A+ titles due out, all they can do now is to try to wait out the storm.

Agreed. Best they can hope for is to stay even during the holidays with a price drop. They'd count their blessings if they could do that.

Hey, I think Halo will do well too. Not making fun of you here, it's just obvious. COD4 would sell well if it was total crap. All indications are that it will be pretty damned good. There is no question it'll sell well. (and probably be lights out on the PS3 because of the lack of other options.

My feelings weren't hurt, as they weren't my comments. :) COD has been a mixed bag in the past, so it's never a guarantee. I do like the switch to a more modern environment.

They are already clipping the PS3 at a 2.1-1 ratio. That's likely going to jump near 3-1 and maybe even 3.5-1 in the next few months. I don't think the 360 has a lot of dissapointment it needs to worry about.

This year, you're likely right.

I'll buy that. If the PS3 came in at the right price, there'd be no way that they shouldn't be even with or leading the 360 at this point. I'd take some issue with your credit to MS. I think the lead that the 360 has over the PS3 has more to do with Sony's buffoonery than anything Microsoft did. All MS has done was avoid stepping on the bag of flaming poo, which may end up being enough for them to win this generation.

No. What you said earlier was that was just a company line made up to cover for the fact that they didn't get online out on time.

This clearly shows that this company line was the line from the outset as I said (well before they didn't get online out on time).

Notice I'm not arguing that the online isn't disappointing. It is. I'm pointing out the reason that it isn't is because the FOCUS of the Wii is live multiplayer which online sort of works against. You asked me to show an article that says they wouldn't focus on online before the release and I explained that what I'm saying isn't that they weren't going to focus on online, but that they ARE going to focus on live in-person multi-player, which I then showed you.

That's it. The end. Yes online is disappointing, yes, Nintendo has had a strategy other than focusing online the whole time, yes I've shown proof of that.


Honestly, this isn't hard.

I doubt you'd find anyone to disagree with you. There's a lot of extras in the consoles that most gamers don't want or need. That's just the way it is for this generation at least. I'm not sure it will ever change back to just a gaming console again. They have to find multiple income sources to increase their profits on these things. Downloadable movies, add-ons, etc. are all part of the deal now.

Oh and online Mario Strikers Charged works beautifully.

I'm trying to figure out if the $350 is worth it. My Xbox went. I would love to pick up NCAA Football (I've played it (regular games) against my friend). Love the toughness, but the INT worries me. Other than that, seems like a great game with an amazing dynasty mode.

Exactly what extras in the 360 are you concerned about? The Elite adds the 120 GB HD for downloading media, but the Premium is pretty much all gaming console. Most of the entertainment bits are just useful side effects of having some power; for example, the ability to stream music from your PC isn't eating much resources. You can even create custom playlists to use while playing a game instead of the game's music (which was very handy for me on PGR3...) The ability to download and play HD videos is cool, but again an extra add-on from the Live bits that the console just happens to have plenty of power to do.

But it's the games that take primary advantage of the CPU / graphics / memory / sound hardware in there. It's not like they mandated a high-definition DVD player be in the box or something.

I still have to get that MJ4H. Been busy finishing up an unexpected review of NBA 08 on the PS3. (note, that's one of the exclusives coming out for the PS3 and well, ummmm, ok, mom always told me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, not to say anything at all. I'll follow that advice here)

Mizzou B-Ball, honestly, I don't care how many podcasts you heard complaining about the lack of online play wtih the Wii. Or third party sales. The install base is now the largest of the three systems and it continues to beat the hell out of the other two. The "fad" is still a "fad" and we're nearing a year after release. The sales figures are pretty conclusive at this point: The public is still buying it even with the lack of online play. That speaks volumes more than a pod cast.

Especially when those pod casts come from gaming geeks that clearly are not the target audience of the console...

Except maybe for the lack of games...

No, all MS has done is:

1) Come out with the first next gen console which allowed them to build up a decent sized user base while getting top quality software.

2) Bought up exclusives and bought out Sony exclusives (like making sure GTA is released at the same time as the PS3 version) This has allowed them to get games like Gears of War, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Dead Rising (I understand Dead Rising 2 may be out for both), and others out for the 360 and not anyone else.

3) Worked to put out the best online experience of any of the consoles. Yes, you pay $50 a year for it, but it's far better than any other console currently on the market.

Now, all three of those things were business decisions. MS did botch a few things. And MS certainly had some great advantages in watching Sony crap all over themselves. Still, they put themselves in great position for Sony's errors.

And yes, MS is doing cartwheels right now. The repair issue has taken away some of their spirits, but it looks like they'll surely gain a foothold in the industry and eat up some of Sony's market share this generation. That's about the best they could have ever hoped for.

I think the concensus from the mainstream consumer is that the Wii is cheap, the XBOX 360 is a tad bit expensive, and the PS3 is just off-base with its price, hence the above sales numbers.

I wonder how many of those new PS2 owners would've bought PS3's if Sony lowered the price, though?

I would guess a very small percentage. The people buying PS2s now are doing so they can have access to the massive library of games and a cheap price, not really the hardware itself.

The price drop would be a good thing, but isn't really the main point of discussion. The point from earlier is that the PS3 should have been introduced at $399 in the first place. The market dictated that price point from the start. Certainly, the move to BR forced the price decision, which might/might not help them in the end when we look back at this generation. The $599 price point took away any chance the PS3 had and they lost exclusives and some multiplatform games as a result. There would be games there right now if the installed base was there. Instead, developers are delaying PS3 projects to work on others. The PS3 has to make up from that mistake at this point.

There wouldn't be a lack of games right now if they would have put the price point lower at launch to begin with. They lost several games and had more delayed as a result of the low installed base. We'd have a much different situation if Sony would have pulled its head out of its backside when making the pricing decision at the start.

Ah, so now the Wii isn't targeting gaming geeks? There's not a more loyal bunch of 'gaming geeks' than the Nintendo fan base. The Wii wouldn't be anything if it shunned its fan base. It can grow its base with other groups of gamers/non-gamers, but half that installed base is loyal Nintendo fans who were craving a good Nintendo console after the Gamecube debacle.

unbelieveable.

eta:


(the entire reason the Wii is so successful is it is targeting the casual gamer)

I think it is time I stop entering this thread. It is flooded by someone that doesn't even know the most basic things about the dominant console of this generation. It's just incredibly frustrating to watch.

Count me out. Should've done it a long time ago.

True. It just seems that the pricing is out of whack.

But what makes the $599 system of the PS3 better than the 360 when it comes to pure gaming? In three to four years, will the games be better than the 360? I know that the PS3 has blu-ray? What exactly does it do when it comes to gaming?

The Wii is popular because it has found itself an audience that does not cater to either the PS2 or the XBOX360. And it just so happens that it's affordable, and has a fun, family-friendly library of games.

Not to mention the Wii has brought Nintendo a profit on each system from the start. The other systems lost hundreds of dollars when they launch, and aren't budget to start making money for another year or so.

Very little. Blu-Ray, being a larger format, can hold a lot more content than a regular DVD. But, since games can only display whatever can be held in memory at any one time, the limiting factor of how much RAM each system has means that, in most cases, that extra room on the Blu-Ray disk is unnecessary. With the exception of a few very large adventure games with a ton of different unique maps/locations (that can be streamed off the Blu-Ray disk), there just isn't much need for the extra room the Blu-Ray provides given the current amount of RAM the 360 and PS3 have.

Add in to those reasons the fact that most games right now that aren't platform exclusive are being developed primarily on the 360 with PS3 versions mainly ports, and there's little reason to think that Blu-Ray is going to make much of a difference in gaming experience in this generation of gaming consoles.

If you just want a console for gaming exclusively, especially given that you're looking to spend as little as possible while still getting a next-gen console, the 360 is your best bet. No question about that.

There is NOTHING in the $599 PS3 system that makes it better for just gaming. For certain types of games, the Cell architecture in the PS3 is better. For other types of games, the 360 CPU is better. Basically, 1 general-purpose CPU + 7 Floating point units vs 3 general-purpose CPUs. Overall, for most gamers, it's a wash.

The extra price of the PS3 gets you a Blu-Ray player. Period.

:rolleyes:

You
Have
Got
To
Be
Kidding
Me

This wasn't even a topic of debate when we were talking about the July numbers. No, it's not targeting gaming geeks, it is squarely targeting families at home and party gamers. If they were going after the hardcore gaming crowd that writes reviews, they'd have more power in the system to run the shooters and graphics-intensive games those reviewers love.

The casual gaming market is HUGE right now. Your hardcore gamers hate to find out things like more players play Poker online than are buying Halo 3 right now, for example. It's a huge business, and Nintendo made a smart move in targeting it.

Thanks for the feedback on the PS3 vs. x box 360. I will not look at picking up the 360 Premium system. Now the hard part is what sports game to pick up first. :)

It sounds like PS3 is gambling that people want entertainment systems, not just a gaming system. I keep hearing how the PS3 has "unlimited potential" to gaming, but I just never understood what it was.

Down the road as developers learn more about the system architecture, it will eventually produce some excellent gaming. Right now, it's untapped potential at best. If you don't want a HD media drive, there's no reason to buck up the extra $200 for a PS3 right now.

According to your description, I'm actually a casual gamer and not a hardcore gamer. I own a Wii and play online poker quite a bit. However, I don't play poker because of the game. I play it because I can readily take other people's money from the comforts of my own home. The poker boom online has nothing to do with casual gaming. The poker games that are strictly for entertainment on consoles have always been big bombs even with the popularity of the card game itself. The experience is nothing without the money.

We'll agree to disagree on the current installed base of the Wii. I certainly agree that it's growing due to non-gamer interest, but the core installed base is still the gamer, especially long-time Nintendo fans.

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

I'll clarify my point a bit: in the long run, the PS3 won't have any better games than the 360 well. I think you will find some genres are a bit better on the PS3, while other genres will be a bit better on the 360. It's hard to explain, but the PS3 power is good for small floating-point intensive tasks (graphics, some physics algorithms, some low-level AI algorithms), while the 360 power is good for more general-purpose routines (high-level AI, core gameplay mechanics, etc) or those that require access to large chunks of memory. I don't think the average consumer will notice barring some detailed screenshot comparison or some equally stupid method of comparing games.

The difference is all speculation. Certainly, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, and the Final Fantasy games all look like they will exceed from a graphics perspective anything that is produced on the 360. With that said, do you really want to wait until March 2008 to purchase a system? You can get a lot of good, cheap games on the 360 right now. Given your concerns about cost, perhaps that makes more sense for you. There's 10 PS3 exclusives coming out in the fall, but most of them are brand new IP's, so we won't know how good they are until they come out. The franchise games on the PS3 won't be in until next year. The 360 has Halo 3 and has some other new IP's that appear to be promising this fall.

EA has already stated the the PS3 will be the primary development console starting with next year's games, so that shouldn't be an issue. With that said, I personally doubt I'll be any more likely to buy an EA game based on the fact that there are better sports developers than EA. So I'm not sure I really care where they develop their games until they put out a quality product.

If the PS3 doesn't get a bigger base, then I don't see why companies would put more effort into the games compared to the 360.

Just because some hardcore gamers and long-time Nintendo fans own a Wii doesn't mean that's their main target audience. Just watching their ads indicate they are targeting a much more casual, non-gamer audience than either Microsoft or Sony. I think this also ties in to the discussion about the importance of the online capabilities of the Wii. Sure, Nintendo would like to have a fully functional online community but when you are targeting casual/non-gamers the online part isn't nearly as important. It's the casual people who want to play games with their families or at parties that Nintendo is going after and they are doing a great job by making a console that's fun for the whole family and entertaining with a group of people sitting around together. I think what Nintendo has done is genius. Sure the hardcore gamers are going to bitch and moan about online play or whatever, but who cares. It's not like they are going anyplace, because they are hardcore gamers. They may threaten to stop playing the Wii but the next really cool Wii game that comes out, the hardcore gamers are back.

It's funny how Sony forgets how it almost drove Sega and Nintendo out of business back in the day... forget about games, support, etc. etc... you can beat out any competition just by outpricing him. Good old capitalism.

The one final hope for the PS3:

Your comments are spot-on and certainly correlate with my point. The installed base has a large core of Nintendo fans and they will eventually play the system if some good games come out (Galaxy and Smash Bros. as a couple of examples). I also agree with you that the current marketing target is 'casual gamers'. But the Nintendo fan is still the core user at this point and is driving the continued success of the first-party games while third-party games continue to flounder.

Now there is a series that's never done anything for me.

But Final Fantasy has basically been to the Playstation what Mario is for the Nintendo, and what Halo is for the XBOX.

Well, that and the Metal Gear series. Which I also never got into. Hate stealth games.

True. Come to think of it, Sony has more bankable console-defining game series. Unfortunately, their little fiasco about pricing the PS3 way too high negates any advantage they might have had.

Bizarre Creations has been purchased by Activision. Given Activision's stance of supporting all consoles for all games, games like Project Gotham Racing and Geometry Wars may end up multiplatform.

Press release:

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...7#pressrelease

Article from Bizarre Creations exec:

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...rticle_id=5277

I'm not in a big hurry to pick up a system, even though I'm starting to get the itch. I just want to pick up the right system. The problem with EA is they hold the licenses for the football games (NFL and NCAA, likely to hold through this current generation). I've been reading that rumors are flying of a lower-priced 40GB PS3 being produced.

If you're not in a hurry, you're better off waiting until spring no matter which one you chose.

In the case of the 360, you'll likely get one of the newer 360 models with the smaller 65nm chip and the improved heat sink, thereby greatly reducing your chances of getting the 'Red Ring of Death' error.

On the PS3 side, you could hold off until February or March and likely get the cheaper $399 model you mentioned in plenty of time to play some of the franchise games that start coming for the PS3 in March. You may find some pretty good deals for both consoles on some of the games already out.

Epic has decided to nix the PS3/PC cross-platform play on UT3. They said a patch may be issued to allow players to play cross-platform, but that the initial release will not have that option available.

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/203_1.php

Nice of Epic to spare dual analog users the trouble of getting pwned by PC gamers, although you can use keyboard/mouse on the PS3 version iirc.

Endless Ocean delayed until Q1 2008, even the damn Europeans will get this before us. :mad:

"May"? Geometry Wars was already headed to Nintendo Wii with Sierra as the publisher.

Project Gotham Racing, on the other hand, that would be an interesting game to see on the PS3.

Provided, of course, that Sony can fix the god damn sync issues with the Sixaxis controllers. "Whee! Control amnesia! Just gonna take a little smoke break here, we'll let you play again in a minute!"

I've seen that mentioned on occasion, but haven't had any problems with mine. Does it just drop completely or disconnect and then reconnect a few seconds later?

Depends on the game.

NHL, it just drops completely and then reconnects a few seconds later.

Untold Legends, it spazzes out. The character starts running all over the damn place and then a few seconds later I regain control.

Interesting numbers over the last two weeks in Japan. Major PSP sales boost due to the release of the PSP Slim and the FF Crisis Core game..........

Before we start making statements like this, we're going to have to sit back and see how things develop. These things really do shift over time and in a big way and everyone just keeps assuming the status quo of a year on something that is a really long cycle.

Who thought Square was going to publish for the Playstation coming into the N64-PSX battle and it was one of the games that turned the whole generation on its ears? Unlikely scenario, but these types of things do happen- what if, say, Sony decides to pony up big bucks to make Madden a PS3 exclusive? Particularly with the NFL licence being locked up, what happens to the 360 gamers who are in it for sports games only, one of their big markets? It's unforseen stuff like this that can turn a generation on a dime and we're just getting started.

SI

Oh god. That would suck if Sony made Madden an exclusive.

I'd be extremely surprised if the NFL allowed that to happen.

Regarding the PS3/360 debate, pay close attention to what gstelmack is telling you - he not only works for a video game developer, he's a programmer, and as such has much better insight to the strengths and weaknesses of both consoles from a hardware perspective (I'm in the industry too, but I'm an animator, so my info is 2nd hand from our programmers).

Also keep in mind that so long as the 360 has a major lead in console sales over the PS3, the vast majority of developers will focus their game development on the 360 and their PS3 versions will be mostly a straight port - there probably wont be many PS3 SKU's of games that spend much time trying to optimize and maximize content for the PS3 hardware.

Apparently Microsoft owns the PGR IP, so Project Gotham on the PS3 wouldn't come to fruition.

Then again, though, Bizarre went from Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast to PGR on the Xbox, so the idea of them doing a similar game with a different name as a multiplatform release isn't entirely farfetched.

This has to be one of the weakest arguments against the PS3. I'll grant you that there are some current ports that have come in sub-par to the 360 counterpart over the past few months. There are also some ports like Oblivion which are actually an improvement over the 360 counterparts. For the most part, outside of the debacle that is EA, the ports have been just as good as their 360 counterparts. Within a year, the ports on both systems will be the same other than very slight differences one way or the other. EA has stated that they'll be developing with the PS3 as the primary development platform starting next year, but I personally never hold out any hope that EA can actually improve their games no matter which platform they're developing on.

All of that port discussion aside, multiplatform games generally aren't the system sellers anyway. Games like Madden and GTA may give slight sales boosts, but they pale in comparison to the boosts from exclusive franchise titles. The 360 will see a spike with Halo and saw a slight spike with Bioshock. They'll likely see small spikes with the release of some other games like Mass Effect this fall. Similarly, the PS3 will see spikes with MGS4, FF, and GT5 along with a smaller spike on some of the other exclusives. Sales numbers of the PSP in Japan were through the roof after the latest FF game was released. Those kind of situations are what alters the landscape of a console war.

Events like what sterlingice mentioned similarly can turn things. One thing to remember is that both of these companies have a ton of money and aren't afraid to spend it to get market base. MS has spent quite a bit early on and it has shown well for them thus far in this generation. Sony's recently added nearly $3 billion to their cash on hand and recently reported a 4x increase in income for their company as a whole. They have the means now to make a further price cut at a loss and make some exclusive moves.

What Sony/MS decide to do with their money could help them (or hurt them) in the long run. The Sega Saturn article above is a good example of a move gone terribly wrong. At one point in their lifetimes, the N64 and Dreamcast were in the driver's seat. The Xbox 360's sales figures over the first 20 months are remarkably similar to the Gamecube's sales figures over that same time period. Shows you how much a console war can change over a few short years. Regardless, console wars are always interesting to watch from a marketing and economics standpoint.

Good news for Wii fans here. The next version of Fatal Frame is coming to the Wii.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163198

I read somewhere that the Samba Amigo (or whatever it's called) game is coming to Wii too. The monkey maracas game on Dreamcast. I never got to play it, but heard it's good.

Thanks. I don't know if I'll wait til the spring, but I want to give it until November or so (College Hoops 2k8, perheps). I'm guessing the 360 consoles on the shelve by not have the problems they've have. It does seem the 360 does have a better online system (not to mention my friends have the 360 and online play).

I'm guessing the contract between the NFL and EA has some clauses to prevent that. Of course, EA paid a fortune to acquire the license. I wonder how it is paying off so far.

All indications are that by November, the shelves will only have the new and improved 360's that are much more reliable. They are already appearing on shelves now and the older ones should be sold out by then.

I guess Halo 3 is doing alright.

$170 million on day 1. Not bad.

If your friends and you play online a lot and they use the 360 to do that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't chose the 360.

Madden sales are down double digits for the second year in a row. However, they're down because of the game itself, not the license.

Without a link to check, I'm assuming that $170M you mention is the U.S. sales total and not worldwide sales. Microsoft was forecasting $300 million worldwide in sales before release day. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of the higher priced packages they sold out of that total. The dollar figure overall isn't as important as the number of games sold and consoles sold during the week due to the Halo release.

Well, unless you argue (as many would - I think even you have agreed with this in the past) that the license has allowed EA to be lazy because of no competition - therefore the game has suffered because of the license.

What? Who cares how many games they sold. It's the monetary value that counts! The news bit I saw last night said this is the biggest opening day in entertainment history (including movies and the like). Approximately 1.5 million people logged in to Live to play the game on opening day. There's no way you're spinning this as a disappointment. :)

The $170 Million dollar figure was US only though FTR.

No, I just was curious for a couple of reasons. First, the overall dollar figure isn't that important because it's a sales figure that's spread over different priced packages. So we can't just divide whatever number it is by $60 to get the number of game units sold (helps to determine attach rate).

Also, MS was hoping for a major console sale boost from Halo. I'm interested to see what number will come out of September in regards to sales. There will be some estimates early next week, but we won't see the NPD numbers until mid-October. Hopefully he posts the link to give some clearer info.

Couple of developers add to the PS3 price complaints. I hope all the developers fuss about it to push Sony further towards a quicker price cut. With that said, it states in the second article that Eidos tripled their development budget for the PS3, so they must not be that concerned.

http://www.ps3news.com/General_OffTo...ger_PS3_sales/

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=29044

Except that it's true.

As Greg has already pointed out in this thread, there's not really a clear hardware advantage for either the 360 or PS3 - each has their strengths and weaknesses. So there's not necessarily a lot of extra stuff a developer can wring out of a PS3 SKU that they couldn't get out of their 360 SKU. But even if there is, so long as the 360 has a big lead in install base, there's not much financial incentive for developers to do much extra in their PS3 SKU that they didn't do in their 360 SKU - unless Sony pays them to do so.

And while you might think that exclusives are the driving force of sales for consoles, that's not the case for everyone. Take your average Madden/sports junkie - sports games might be the primary thing they buy consoles for, so all the exclusives don't mean much to them. They are more interested in how their EA games, which are on all platforms, look and play on each console.

I generally agree with everything you said here. There's generally no difference between the consoles at this point in regards to games, but I disagree with the hardware point. The PS3 has the better hardware, but it's inmaterial at this point because it's not being used by the porting developers. They're producing roughly the same games at this time. That likely won't be the case in the future, but that's speculation until it actually occurs and I'll freely admit that.

As far as Madden, I noted that there is a small spike in that case, but it's very small. The spike in sales for Bioshock was much larger and the Halo 3 spike will make the Madden jump look like a mere blip in the grand scheme of things. These exclusives are a much larger driver of sales.

Contrary to what Sony would have you believe, this really isn't the case. In talking with our programmers and reading detailed analysis online, the reality is pretty much how gstelmack (also a programmer) has laid it out - each system has strengths and weaknesses compared to the other. There is no clear-cut hardware advantage for either one. On the whole, you might be able to argue a slight advantage for the PS3, but it's not anywhere close to the advantage the Xbox had from a hardware standpoint compared to the PS2.

This is coming from programmers at companies that are multi-platform with no vested interest in one console over the other BTW.

Madden and other sports titles aren't usually going to be the driving force behind console decisions, but they are often tipping points. For a lot of gamers, the advantage of Halo on the 360 is countered by the advantage of MGS on the PS3, so the tipping point is how the common games look on each system (in particular the sports games).

The big exclusives will produce bumps because of the "true-believers", but for much of the less fanatical, it's games like Madden and how they compare on each console that tip the scales. Assuming that EA fixes their problems with their PS3 SKU next year, it will be interesting to see how the 360 and PS3 SKU's compare in sales relative to each console's install base.

Stop with this mindless speculation. :)

New screen shots for Silent Hill V available. These shots are from the PS3 version as it is the primary development console. A 360 version is also in the works.

http://silenthill5.net/silent-hill-5...creenshots.php