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We should rename this place Front Office I Have Sand in My Vagina.
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I had a nice long post mentally composed ... and realized (luckily before typing it) that doing so would actually have contradicted what I was going to say.
That kinda sucks. |
Ben,
I was very happy this morning to wake up and see what I saw from you in this thread, and i'm not surprised it was here because i truly, no matter what was happening, thought you were a fair and good person who was just a bit stubborn, I think i can say the same for 90% of the people on this board, especially when things get heated. But people get more vitriolic over you because you're the Mod, which i realize is not a fun thing to be sometimes and as I said in our conversation yesterday, i agree with what you do an overwhelming portion of the time. Saturday night was something that i'm sure everyone involved wishes we could go back and do things differently, maybe more level headed, you, me, cringer, sov, all of us. I'm leaving Shorty out because he was genuinly upset that I was leaving (I think he has a man crush on me or something). Sunday wasn't pleasant for me at all as there was alot of venom aimed at you which didn't make happy, even if i did feel your decision was wrong. I thought our conversation Sunday morning was a very good in which you sincerely listened to what I had to say and I you, I probably ended it too early as I decided to go watch the Ravens/Giants game (you should probably ban me just for that :) ) but I felt like as angry as I was at you I didn't let that invade our conversation and as pissed off as you probably were at me you didn't let it affect us having a solid, yet honest discussion. My intention was never to grandstand, although in posting the goodbye thread i'm sure part of it was to let people know exactly what Sovs initial suspension was for, something I knew you didn't want done. Perhaps taking it to another board would of been best, it just seemed like a ridiculous notion at the time to say goodbye to FOFC on the HFL board. I'm glad this is over and I have more respect for you now than when this started because it does take a big man to admit that his decision was wrong. I love this place, i've been a lurker/poster on FOFC for years, in fact I lurked for so long because the community here was so knowledgable/funny/witty/entertaining that for a few years I never felt that need to post, as just reading the threads was entertainment enough for me thruought my day, that's how special I think this group is. You're a good dude in an unenviable position who has to make decisions that sometimes will polarize the community, that you can also be talked to and questioned and in turn reverse a decision that you made for the better says alot about your character to me. I hope this can all be put behind us and we can move on, I love this place and I like the people here, even the ones I think are nuts :D Suicane |
Bravo, Suicane.
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Nicely done Ben. This saves me a PM, expressing my disappointment.
I believe you are one hell of a moderator SD, as you typically only step in when things/posters go too far and/or level personal attacks. I do believe that you have learned that you can't censor or control the discussion here. That is not why everyone around here has entrusted you with your responsibility. Over the couple of years I have been around here you have earned my respect and support. I haven't agreed with everything you have done, but certianly believe you got the lion's, or in your case the H.N.I.C.'s, share correct. I'm writing this off to a drunken binge on the weekend that impaired your otherwise good judgement. Now that you have sobered up, and learned your lesson, don't do it again. If you manage that you will continue to be the exceptional moderator and essentially the leader of this community. Good Luck |
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On HA having a positive impression, that's more because I'm a moron in thinking that everyone has something good in him. I've experienced positive things with HA to feel he's not only bad influence. Or maybe I'm just a pathetic guy who tries to be friends with everyone. :o But then, Hornsmaniac never won me over, so that can't be it... |
Great post Suicane!!! i'm really glad to see all you talking this way now.
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I haven't read the rest of this thread, yet. However, I just wanted to say I admire your decision to post this. We all make mistakes. It takes a real adult to admit them and rectify them if possible. |
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Very nice post. My admiration for you just went up too :) |
Man. I KNEW I should have spent more time around here this weekend. :D
Nice move, Ben. Well done. |
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That was the best post Flasch ever posted on this board. I can read it and understand it. He even used paragraphs! Nicely done. |
Oh, Sov is gone too? In that case, Jeeber, I think it would be acceptable for you to PM some certain pics then. I don't think that could hurt anything, right?
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That should be enough to get him off of the ignore list! |
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Here, Here! I applaud the decision and the post. Oh, and before I forget... GROUP HUG! ;) |
Nice post Skydog and Suicane. Classy moves on both of your parts. I think people need to understand that a mod on any board is going to have to act as a dictator in one way or another. Some just are more oppresive than others. If you don't believe that, just try it. Open a board and get some members there (not always and easy thing). Then give them no limits on speech. See how long the board last. It would take no time to become another "YOU SUCK DUDZ" message board that no one would enjoy visiting. The best a moderator can do is be as gentle as he can, and no when to pour on the heavy hand.
In this case, Ben messed up. He went heavy handed to soon (though I can sort of understand why. What kind of juvenile idiots get so worked up about someone not releasing a FREE program in the time frame they want? Just goes to show, no good deed goes unpunished). I never doubted, though, Ben would be man enough to right any real wrongs. There aren't many mods out there (or people in general) that would, but I know Ben is one of them. As for those who have "left." I'm sorry to see you go. But if it were between them leaving and Ben losing his mod position, it is a complete no brainer. Bye guys, nice knowing ya. Ben may not be perfect, but he is the only man for this job. As much as I respect many on this board, I can't think of anyone that has a better temperment to handle this job. I'm glad Ben is here, I'm glad this board is here, and I look forward to getting all this behind us so we can continue annoying each other in other ways. |
Hey, Ben... since you're feeling so magnanimous about your (relatively few) mistakes as a moderator, don't you think now would be a good time to spread a little holiday cheer, and return the QOTM?
Pretty please? (Hey, I have to try...) |
Ben, thank you for reconsidering your decisions and allowing this discussion to happen, and thank you for your apology. You 'da man...
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Why? He is fixing mistakes, not reversing the best desicion he ever made. |
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Hater. I think the QOTM should be an optional component. So, if you don't like it, you don't have to see it. |
SkyDog, I thought of doing this via PM but then again that would be rather hypocritical of me since I made this public in the first place. I know you disagreed with my methods, and thought of it as more of an attention grabbing tactic. It was not done for that reason to me, I thought of it as the more effective way in this case. Some may agree, some may disagree with me on this point, but that is going to happen with many things and I am fine with that part of it.
I am happy to read your decision, and first and foremost I hope there are no hard feelings between us. As I said earlier in this thread, I have never much looked at you as The Man, but just one of the top posters here. I have always enjoyed reading about your testing of FOF and TCY, and have found it useful in the past many times. I never called for a new Moderator, and would not do so. As many people have said, no man is perfect. I thank you for listening, which is not something many people would do when they start out feeling they are 100% correct in their actions. That is a hard thing to do, as I think most of us know. There is not much else I can say here, I think Suicane pretty much summed up a lot of my feelings in his post, so I will just say that I agree with much of what he has said there. And ISiddiqui has beaten me to it, I think it's time for a group hug. |
goddamit suicane - are you a girl or a boy. what's the fucking story?
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don't make me have to react. i don't want to ruin the good feelings in this thread by shitting on you and your feeling of self-worth. nevertheless, that's strike one. |
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Hey hey. I want too!! |
I like drama as much as the next guy, but whenever any of this shit happens, I'm always about 95% lost about what ANY of it means.
So, fill in your own since I don't know what the hell is going on: So I guess it's good that ______________________. I think that SkyDog___________________. I love it when __________________ kicks ________________ in the __________________. That's always __________________. Oh, and Michigan sucks. |
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This perfectly states my opinion. I don't want to be told we cannot discusss moderation decisions, I simply don't think that's reasonable. |
I love Mad-Libs! Here's my entry:
So I guess it's good that banana. I think that SkyDog belches sometimes. I love it when coffee cup kicks cow in the Richard Simmons . That's always infected. Oh, and papercuts suck. Edit: I don't actually hate Michigan, so I changed the last sentence. |
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Mmmm...nice.  |
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Ps. also, your first move in challenging a decision should be in private to Skydog. That will always be better with much less drama than making a thread. Of course, some people really do just want the attention. |
the guy apologized and made amends as much as he could. why is there still a debate going on? the case is closed and while mistakes were made on both sides of the board gravity still exists and the earth will still revolve around the sun.
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I'll play too.
So I guess it's good that Michigan sucks. I think that SkyDog knows Michigan sucks. I love it when Any team kicks Lloyd Carr in the Man boobs. That's always a good indication that Michigan sucks. Oh, and Michigan sucks. We have a moderator? |
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Keep in mind, I am not saying every moderation decision should be a group effort. I am not trying to make SkyDog actually change his decisions based on the things said in such a discussion. I know its a tough job, I would not want it, and I have never actually been truly offended at any of his moderation decisions. What I detest is the "back room justice" feel of discipline around here (I guess we disagree vehemently here). Everything handled in private and secret just rubs me the wrong way - and in fact makes this board more "SkyDog Central" than if free discussions of the moderating decisions were allowed. Note that by "free disccussion" I am not advocating a free for all, every post a flame attitude - people should be held to the same standards of civility in threads discussing mod decisions that they are in other discussions, and risk the same penalties for crossing the line. But, I think there is nothing wrong with asking Ben to explain his reasoning behind such actions, and everyone else being allowed to criticize such decisions publicly. Clearly, the "these things are handled in private" attitude is hurting the board (in loss of good content adding members) more than it is helping at this point. |
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No, I dont disagree except that "everything" is done that way. Most of Skydogs decisions have been very publically done. This was more the exception than the rule. I think it is because the few times most of things done were behind the scenes sticks in people's minds more than they very public things. Human nature, I guess. |
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He has repeatedly asked that anyone wanting to comment/question on such a decision do so in IM's, and often closed threads where people wish to discuss. This is the first time I can remember any discussion of moderation not being immediately quashed. |
fofc wordbank:
dola trout colosal squid hornsmaniac patriotic undies come back more powerful than you can possibly imagine So I guess it's good that dola. I think that SkyDog trout. I love it when colosal squid kicks hornsmaniac in the patriotic undies. That's always come back more powerful than you can possibly imagine. |
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That's more like it. Less yappin', more Mad-Libs! ;) |
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Then you haven't been around or don't have a good memory. I remember many of these threads, and remember why they have been limited. |
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Well? |
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Deep subject. Well, what? Examples? Many of these situations played out on the old board, but the dramas (very plural) around Hornsmaniac comes to mind. Not to mention that some that were having the pissies in this situation were the same people that caused such a stink then (and I'm pretty sure that at least one still doesn't believe Horns should have been banned). |
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Yes, I am looking for examples of threads where people discussed SkyDog's moderation decisions and did not close them with the explanation that such discussions were only acceptable via PM. |
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Again, Hornsmaniac dramas, the wigs dramas, threads about QOTM, ect, ect, ect. There have been many threads, many discussions, and all beaten like a dead horse. |
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Horns. Wignifty. Wignasty. Chubby. The Nazi-flag guy (drawing a blank on the name, though I shouldn't). Styx. How many more do you need? |
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This is the kind of crap I am referring to. Orders not to comment on a particular topic. And it was posted yesterday. |
Frankly, I think Ben's being too hard on himself. I understand that reasons he did what he did -- it was with the best interest of the board at heart. Perhaps leaving a "bitch session" thread open would have allowed everyone to vent their frustrations and get back to normal, perhaps not. I think Ben's only mistake was trying to clamp down completely and not let the situation run its course -- but that is 20/20 hindsight. I have no doubt he did what he thought was best.
If you don't like it, you don't like Ben's change of heart and you don't like this moderation, my suggestion is this: hit the bricks. This forum is a great place to have fun, but if you're not having fun why come here? I stopped coming here and posting for a while when political threads were non-stop and 9 out of 10 threads pissed me off. If you're not having fun and the only contribution you can make is to cause trouble, then get a life for Christmas and go do something else. Don't take this place so seriously -- it's supposed to be fun, god damn it. :) |
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24-hour discussion on a moderating decision, closed when completely off-topic, out of hand, and finished: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=17896&page=1&pp=50&highlight=skydog+dictator discussion on a moderating decision, never closed: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=9578&page=3&pp=50&highlight=skydog+dictator discussion on a moderating decision, never closed: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=8498&highlight=skydog+dictator discussion on a moderating decision, never closed: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=30469&page=1&pp=50&highlight=skydog+dictator discussion on a moderating decision, never closed: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=24792&highlight=skydog+dictator That's five right there, and there are actually many, many more. I just found these by searching on the words "SkyDog" and "dictator." :p EDIT: (bad format in WYSIWYG) Do a search on "SkyDog suspension" and you'll see how many of those threads are discussion moderating decisions, and how few of them were ever closed. I think if you do a few more searches with my name and words like "Banned," "suspension," "suspended," etc., you'll be surprised to see how many of them were never, ever closed. |
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Sam, I had to do the same thing from time to time. At some point, you have to ask people to take it offline and that it's not a subject for discussion. I now remember the Nazi-flag: Bragg. I had to do the EXACT same thing - end all discussion - because people did not understand my reasoning for letting him stay and people kept baiting and inflaming the situation. It's done rarely, but as a moderator you do have to finally put your foot down and tell people to stfu. |
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Well said. And in keeping with the spirit of your post I encourage everyone to complete the Mad-Lib posted above. :p |
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I stand corrected on "every" EDIT: That does not change the fact that this post very clearly spells out that you think discussion of moderating decisions (expecially those involving disciplinary action) should be done in back rooms and secret channels rather than in public forums. One issue where you are WAY off base in that post is the statement, "When a person complains publicly about a modding decision, I only assume that they're grandstanding anyway." When a someone who was not in any way involved in some sort of controversy comes in and sees the aftermath from something as exciting as this weekend, and who is known NOT to be a troll, disagrees with a disciplinary decision, their public comments should not be seen as grandstanding. You say that you would listen to such a person's comments if they were made privately but they are grandstanding if made publicly? That is something you simply cannot assume. It is impossible for such a person to simply have an opinion, not an agenda? Wanting it to be expressed publicly automatically makes it grandstanding, it is impossible for them simply to detest the "back room justice" vibe given off by posts such as you made above? You could not possibly be more off base than with that comment. That said, I will leave it at that. I should not be so vehement, as the only mod decision of yours I truly have disagreed with is the closing of topics related to your decisions, and consider myself ulikely to end up in the Dark Jedi justice system. Methinks you are a bit thin skinned there, and have a very different standard of what is considered trolling when people are talking about you than when they are talking about others. |
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It's a hole in the ground that people get water out of. But that's not important now. SI |
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