|
Quote:
{waves} 2 of the 3 have very little chance of getting the votes of a lot of those Trump supporters (I still think the majority would come around on Cruz push come to shove) There will be tremendous disappointment among many if a Trump that gets shafted at the convention doesn't launch a 3rd party bid. If there isn't one, it's open season for those votes on a state by state basis (depending upon what options are on a November ballot) with a spoiled ballot (ineligible) write-in claiming a record high number of push comes to shove. |
Quote:
NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-..._b_500999.html |
Quote:
You should read the Response to Comments section in that article. |
Quote:
That is a bald fucking lie. The HuffPo writer is a blogger who is asking why no one esle is reporting on an issue, and misconstrues the NYTimes article (you can click through and see). The public option was jettisoned because the Administration said there is no way we are passing this thing with one. They gave up the public option for the ACA being passed at all. Do you remember that passage at all? The House voted for the ACA by [b]5[b] votes. The Senate voted for it with changes by 60-39, but then Scott Brown won the election in Massachusetts, losing the Dems their supermajority, meaning the House had to pass the Senate bill as is, or else any changes would have been filibustered. The House passed it by 7 votes. And that was with a TON of work. You think adding a public option would have been feasible in that environment? I think people forget just how tough that passage was. Of course Berniebots just think Sanders will wave his arms around and his bills will get passed Congress as if he's the sorcerer's apprentice in Fantasia. |
Quote:
Don't forget Lieberman being all for a public option until he found out the left was for it and then he specifically refused to pass an ACA bill with a public option. |
Quote:
But there isn't a public movement is all I'm saying. I picked Bernie and the anti-Trump folks because that's who's been the loudest. |
Quote:
Do you know what happened? Obama stalled the whole thing trying to get a republican to vote for it, so he could call the shit sandwich a bipartisan deal. Even though it was a straight up Republican plan. The only reason it took a year to pass was convincing his own party to eat it. |
Quote:
I do not believe Sanders will pass a thing. But at least he will try. What do you think Hillery will pass? I have one word for you Benghazi. Somehow she will magically make the republicans love her? They despise her worse then Obama, but magically she will get stuff passed? |
Quote:
Did you see how it passed the House by 5 and then 7 votes? What do you think the blue dog Democrats would have voted if the bill was more liberal. Yeah, he tried to get Republican Senators on board, but that was because he had a ONE vote margin for cloture... which was taken away when Scott Brown was elected. And guess what, a bipartisan deal, if possible, would likely have been a better sell to the American public, as even today the ACA has a negative viewpoint, while its individual aspects poll very, very well (aside from the mandate, which was necessary to make it all work). Apparently you do not know what happened. Quote:
Oh, well when they give Presidents participation awards (orange slices at the midterms too?), maybe we can make him one. Quote:
Hillary Clinton is a pragmatic dealmaker. It was her modus operandi in the Senate and it will be when she's President. Like I keep saying, Hillary is Obama Term 2, after Obama figured out how to navigate the obstruction and use his executive power. Obama Term 1 didn't know how to play the game and it showed. |
Quote:
This made me laugh more than anything I've ever seen in an FOFC political thread. |
Quote:
See for yourself: Issues - Bernie Sanders Please proceed, Senator.... |
OK, who's trolling the thread as Surtt?
Is that you Franklinnoble? |
Apparently you do not know what happened.
Apparently not because I remember it passing through Reconciliation (correct me if I am wrong) After they fucked away their 60 majority they could no longer pass it. so they sent it through Reconciliation where they only needed a majority. So they could have had anything they wanted with 51 votes, but decided on Obamacare. |
Yes, it had to pass through Reconciliation to get around a SENATE re-vote, to prevent cloture failing. You realize the House of Representatives is a different body? And if the House change the Senate vote, it'd have to go back to the Senate.
Also, back in 2009-10 there were a fair number of conservative Democratic Senators (some of whom have since lost their seats) who had to vote on the bill. You know the Baucus committee they are talking about in the NY Times article linked from the HuffPo one? Max Baucus was a Democratic Senator from Montana. I suggest your re-read your recent history (a subject that a lot of Berniebots simply don't understand it seems to me) |
Quote:
Yes I know what happened. Medicare for all poles at over 70% even with the Republicans. |
Quote:
What Sanders would actually accomplish if he tries to enact this and people are naive enough to follow him... bread lines for everyone and turning the US into a 3rd world country |
Quote:
As opposed to... |
Quote:
Yes, as evidenced by the fact that every single state decided to approve Medicare expansion as allowed for in the ACA... oh wait. But at least the voters threw out the legislators who refused to do so... oh... wait. |
Quote:
I see a lot of rhetoric from Sanders supporters about how the U.S. is literally a 3rd world country. That displays an extraordinary ignorance of the reality of what so many of the world's poorest face every day. Sanders' base is made up of entitled white people who see themselves as superior to minorities and rural conservatives (usually because they have a liberal arts degree and thousands in debt) It's obnoxious and tiring and I can't wait until it berns out. |
Oh my... did Sanders really say that "white people don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto" in response to a question on race relations... that is NOT going to help him with black voters. Holy crap that wasn't good.
|
Quote:
I didn't watch the debate so I don't know the context. But it's funny that a Jew would make that statement. Just saying. |
Oh, trust me, that didn't escape people on Twitter ;).
|
Quote:
When did Bernie Sanders become a parody of himself? This cycle gets crazier and crazier. In the next debate, Trump's going to challenge Rubio to shots of 30-year-old single malt. |
On a serious note though wouldn't that statement hurt Bernie with white voters more than black voters? I'm white and a Bernie supporter and that statement seems rather condescending.
I've seen many statements from black activists that white people don't know what it means to be black. I guess I thought black people supported the sentiment. Maybe I'm wrong. |
Quote:
Fixed. |
Quote:
The problem is that in that statement Sanders is insinuating that all black folks are in ghettos. So it perpetuates that Sanders doesn't know what it means to be black. Also that even middle class black folk suffer racism and discrimination (which is one of the Clinton push backs against the everything is 'economic' notion that Sanders likes to push). |
I saw this article this morning and thought I'd post it as a follow-up to a conversation we were having in this thread a few weeks ago: Revealed: the 30-year economic betrayal dragging down Generation Y’s income | World news | The Guardian
The title's a bit much, but the data's interesting. May want to start a new thread, though. Quote:
|
It's kind of funny then that advertising covets that 18-34 demographic in part because they are supposed to have disposable income if they don't actually have any disposable income. Unless advertising is changing (or unless I am wrong in assuming that's who is being coveted by advertisers).
Quote:
I've heard this a lot [online]. People wondering if they can even afford kids. |
Quote:
Ping: Jon. Quote:
We had kids in our 30s. Having a healthy cash flow and a cushion of money helped smooth a lot of challenges. Probably to the extent that it's what allowed us both to keep working our jobs (though that's a little chicken-and-egg). I'm pretty sure if we had had kids in our 20s (or if we were in our 20s now and were having kids) one of us would have ditched our career for 5-7 years. |
Quote:
+1 I really need to get in the habit of reading your comments before I post. I end up saying the something, just clunky more. :D I'll just add that the immaturity Surtt (and the like) show prevents even sympathetic voters from taking him seriously. |
Quote:
You're asserting that Sanders' supporters are hipsters. Not that I disagree. :D |
So Hillary Clinton is quite an amazing debater. I didn't get a chance to watch the debate, so I only read things afterwards, but I hadn't realized how Clinton had caught Sanders so offguard with her attack on Sanders voting against the auto bailout. It hadn't been mentioned before, so I imagine the Clinton team just sat on that line of attack until right before the Michigan primary. Sanders, by all accounts, was flummoxed, said something like "good things are sometimes in bad bills" (which is a statement that may help Clinton on some of the things Sanders' supporters attack her on), and then made him all angry the rest of the night.
Apparently all the Detroit papers led with the differences on the auto bailout in their reporting. |
Quote:
It hasn't changed much for all that many advertisers. Clients tend to want to be "hip", bless their hearts, and having a product that skews young is something they very much equate with that. The amount of money spent poorly & stupidly each year, on a combination of stupidity & ego, it truly boggles the mind. Just saw a quote over the weekend that sums it up pretty well I think. From the founding editor of the just-closed More magazine (which targeted women over 40). Quote:
|
Quote:
I thought Clinton was very rude in that exchange. Bernie lets Clinton rant on for 2 minutes but when it's Bernie's turn to speak Clinton keeps on interrupting. |
If only she could be more civilized, like the Republican debaters! ;)
|
I saw plenty of journalistic reports about Bernie interrupting Hillary. The NY Times live streamers kept referring to it because they thought it was amusing that Bernie yelled about being interrupted earlier.
|
Bloomberg opts out of a 3rd party run, predictably.
|
Auto Bailout Debate Moment Shows What's Wrong With Bernie Sanders - US News
This is a pretty good article that explains some of Bernie's issues and why he'd not only be a bad candidate in the general election, but also struggle at getting things done legislatively. The mention of practicality about gun issues is a really good point, too. Bernie gets praised for not compromising his principles, but as a Rep and Senator for Vermont, he's rarely had to do that. Yet on one issue where the liberal position is at odds with his constituents, he compromised. He even explained at as a pragmatic decision, which is okay for him on guns but not for Hillary on other issues. |
Quote:
After they've been been repeatedly told that the things other developed nations have done to address issues such as gun violence and income inequality are impossible to apply to America, it's at least possible to see where that view comes from. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a gun nut point to the statistic that we have fewer gun homicides per capita than some place like Nicaragua as if that's something to be proud of. |
With 18% of Michigan in, Bernie has a 3.5 pt lead, but Nate Silver says very few votes from Wayne County are in yet.
|
The big drama: can Hillary put a bigger beatdown on Bernie in MS than she did in SC.
|
Sanders wins Michigan. 538 had it >99% likelihood for Clinton going into today. It's still basically a delegate tie there, and the projections that calculated a Sanders nomination had Sanders needing to win by more than that in Michigan, but, momentum, and I guess we should ignore the polls in some of the upper Midwest states that have Clinton ahead
|
Michigan called for Bernie. Guess he's not going anywhere.
|
Michigan felt the Bern tonight. I myself voted for Bernie.
It's really quite shocking because as molson alluded to, the polls were all saying that Hillary would have a big night. The RCP average was Clinton by 21.4 points. However going forward Bernie is going to need to win by a lot more to overcome Hillary's southern victories. |
Actually, i take back what i said, it probably won't be a delegate tie, I saw one estimate that it will be Sanders about +11 in Michigan because of the way they calculate by district, which would actually be above his target for that state.
Edit: Bernie scares me, but it's kind of fun to see the polls and 538 miss it by that much. Silver is basically trying to claim he saw this coming in live blog. |
Yikes what a shock upset! All the polls had it not even close.
Though I know a lot of people are comparing this to 2008... and it is... but Hillary Clinton is in the Barack Obama role this time (he had a big lead in delegates after Super Tuesday, by especially winning large in Southern states, and she kept winning states like Michigan, which she did in 2008, by small margins. That kept her name in the conversation, but she never got super close in delegates. Same thing is happening now, just the other way around. |
Never heard of this dude, and I probably don't agree with most of his politics. However, I agree pretty much 100% of his analysis of why Bernie is failing to get black votes in the South. It's a long read, but a really good one, particularly if you want to better understand not just "the black vote" but the general mindset of black people (especially in the South, where the majority of us still live.)
Why Bernie Sanders Is Losing the Black Vote and How We Can Win It | People's War |
Great article, thanks for sharing it.
To tack onto one of the thoughts within it, about 5 years ago my wife and I moved out of our starter home and started renting it. After about a year, a SWAT Team raided the house next door... turns out it was a meth lab. That wasn't especially surprising to us... there had been sketchy shit going on there for a while. Within 6 months, that house was torn to the ground. Now, there is an empty lot there. This was in a Dayton suburb... much better to have an empty lot there than an old meth lab sitting in an abandoned house. You can drive all over the majority black neighborhoods in the City of Dayton and western suburbs and see houses that have stood empty for years with nothing done. Part of that is due to the lack of cash on a big city government's part to really tackle the problem. But part of that is also due to the indifference mentioned in the article. |
Quote:
Thanks, Ben. That was a good read. |
nice to see the "experts" get it wrong once in a while. Hilary can't be pleased.
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.