I hear rumors of a $299 PS3 model, but it won't include an optical drive or video output.

They don't have to do anything until the PS3 starts to actually do something and there's no signs of that.

Until the PS3 has some games worth playing, they're no competition for the 360. By the time that happens, they'll be too far behind for it to make a difference.

All I can say is you're EXTREMELY picky when it comes to games.

No value on backwards compatibility? How about whatever the price is of a PS2?

The problem is that most buyers don't really want a blu ray player or a huge hard drive, they want a games machine. There is no point in "evening the playing field" when most people don't care about those features.

Personally, I think the XBox elite is pointless now that the HDMI slot is standard on all machines.

If I were going to buy a console now, I would go for the 360 Premium as there is no way I would pay $600 for a PS3 with removed features.

Wow. I didn't realize The Show was that good. This could be a good thing I guess. It will force 2k Sports to make it's MLB game better, which is ported to the 360.

Totally agree with that. Premium model is the best bang for your buck out of the three 360 systems.

You could argue that's it's more than that. BC is not a PS2. It's actually an upconverted PS2.

With that said, much like the BR player, there's a lot of people that could care less about the BC option and don't want it forced on them. They can get a HD media player for both games and movies without the BC cheaper now than they could before.

I don't know about everyone else, but I would have preferred the BC and no HD media for a cheaper price.

I thought the BC was software emulation? If that's the case, can they offer the emulator some point as a software title, at least for the those that wish to purchase it? I would buy a ps3 at some point(after another pricecut or three), but I would really want to be able to play some of the ps2 titles I missed out on, I'd probably never buy it in its current non-bc form though.

Same here. If I was to get a PS3, I would much rather have the ability to play PS2 games than watch a Blu-Ray movie.

Well the PS3 games come on Blu-Ray discs so I'm not too sure how much joy you would have gotten out of that.

Wha?

What he means is, if you take out the ability to play Blu-ray movies, you remove the ability to play PS3 games.

In which case, you'd be spending $400 on a PS3 for the sole purpose of playing...PS2 games.

Not the smartest financial move!

You could interpret the comment as "They never should have put Blu-Ray in there in the first place, as it drove up the price of the console and is forcing them to do things like cut the BC they so highly touted as an advantage over the 360 in an effort to get competitive on price". Or in other words, their insistence on using it to win the DVD format war is causing them to cut gaming features from their gaming console that will make it even MORE difficult for them to catch up.

Me, I'm just enjoying hearing them spout off the same excuses ("We'd rather focus on new games") that everyone castigated Microsoft for when Microsoft first announced they would have no BC in the 360...

I'm sure someone can correct me, but I thought there weren't any games on Blu-Ray yet. I thought they were on regular DVDs.

All PS3 games ship on Blu-ray Disc.

Just to be clear, that's not totally true. Sony will still have BC in the 60 and 80 GB models. They're offering a lower cost option for those that don't want BC and want a cheaper price, but they haven't cut off BC support like MS has.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/back...ygameslist.htm

"List updated July 2007."

I'm sorry, what?

I would have gone with, "Just to be clear, that's not totally true."

Yes, but if it's Mizzou talking, you can almost assume that. ;)

:D

And my point still stands: they've backed themselves into a corner where they have to cut gaming features they touted as critical to success in the current console environment instead of media features many don't want that are really driving up the price.

So this past weekend my brother called me and asked if I wanted a brand new 360 for $250. Apparently he sold one at his retail job and the the customers came back with their kid who had wanted a wii. The box had not been touched but the store had to "Open Box" price it and my brother took home the 360 for half cost.

Nice.

The 60GB PS3 is being scrapped in Europe. The 80GB PS3 was never released in Europe, so this means that in a few months we can choose between a stripped down PS3 or nothing at all.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/scee-ps...too-307651.php

Heh. Apparently they have a Mizzouh B-Ball Fan-type poster over there, too:

BY ARBOOM AT 10/05/07 02:07 PM
The way I see it is if the 60/80/20/whatever else GB didn't exist, and only the 40 GB did, people would never say it was "gimped." It still beats the Elite (next gen format included, built in wi-fi) save for HDD space, at a lower price nonetheless.
You should really think of the US + JPN 60GB as an early adopter's special. They paid a lot of money for it, and got a lot of tech out of it too.
You cannot have all the original PS3 had in it and have a competitive price like the 40 GB has. That is simply not possible. I think Sony made a really good compromise and still give you a lot for your dollar, euro, or pound. Like the difference between getting a top of the line BMW and a more modest BMW. It's still a damn fine car either way

Another brilliant choice by Sony!

I guess it's too much to ask you to quote something I've actually stated. I could post a bunch of 360 fanboy posts from an idiot and attribute them to you, but it wouldn't advance the discussion any further than a first grade level and would be a waste of time.

Very doubtful that will occur as you've stated. I'd be very surprised if they didn't release a higher end model once the 60 GB model is exhausted. The comments certainly didn't dismiss that. The 80 GB model is in supply and would be the likely candidate.

Since the individual regions (SCEJ, SCEE, SCEA, etc.) are now controlling the pricing, hopefully the American people decide to bring the 40 GB here for $400. If the PAL version of Pro Evo 2008 works on both SD and HD tv's in the US (HD is a given, SD seems to be hit or miss) I'll probably import the game and pick up a PS3. If not, I'll be waiting until Metal Gear Solid 4. My six year old fat PS2 still works ok although I haven't played it in months anyhow so backwards compatibility isn't a big deal for me.

According to one of the top guys at Sony Europe they are going with one model in Europe.


Then again, Sony denied the price cuts and the 40GB model, so I would naturally be sceptical of this claim.

I agree that Sony will launch the 80GB version over here at some point, however I don't think they can charge the £425 they were charging for the 60GB, as it will be an extremely hard sell with the 40GB version going for £125 less.

If you truly want a 60 or 80 GB model with BC, you can get an import U.S. console for roughly the same price you would pay if it was in Europe. No region restrictions, so you could play it as though it were a Euro PS3.

Well that seems convienient.

Actually, imports are pretty easy to do anymore. Sites like PlayAsia.com make it really easy to do that at the exact same prices you'd pay in that region. I've done it with 2 Japanese imports and got both games in 7 days. Importing is a quickly growing business in all three of the major regions, much more so than it was even a few years ago. It's certainly just as easy as ordering from a state-side retailer and in some cases, just as quick.

Just. Stop. Talking.

The problem importing a console is that you lose the warranty when doing it. Before purchasing my PS3, i thought on importing an NTSC XBox 360 from USA, so investigated about it, and a console has only warranty in the country where you purchased it and that is why i decidd to not to do it, as in Spain, we have two years warranty on every electronic device, and that is something too good to pass on it.

All PS3 models are receiving a price cut in Japan. New 40 GB model will be built in white plastic (I don't get the whole color deal, but the Asian crowd just goes crazy over new color models).

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/071009ae.html

360's don't get imported much for that very reason.

You are correct, and I apologize. I will edit the post to reflect my true intention, was that they have someone over there who sounds exactly like you do when you post.

Microsoft announced that they will have bundles available for the holiday season. Forza 2 and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance will be bundled with the Pro and Elite 360's. No bundle for the Core model.

Tough luck for Sony, today Capcom has announced that Monster Hunter 3 will be a Wii exclusive.

http://www.sharewatch.com/story.php?storynumber=49593

Selected bits of the article:

"Due to high development cost of titles for PS3, we have decided to switch the platform to which we release our Monster Hunster 3 title," Capcom managing corporate officer Katsuhiko Ichii said.

In unveiling the exclusive deal with the influential game developer, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata said that the company is now "entering the third phase of its strategy, aimed at expanding the game player population." "With the release of the Nintendo DS portable game console and Wii stand-alone game machine, we managed to lure those who have never played games or those who have stopped playing games to play them," Iwata said.

"I understand that some experts argue that our success is short-lived and temporary. So, we now need to make efforts to constantly expand the player base by offering services and titles that can appeal not only to those who have never played games but also to those who play them hard," he said.

That is a fantastic quote at the end. I am impressed, Nintendo is not fucking around.

Well-timed by Nintendo as well. This wasn't a coincedental announcement. They timed the announcement to try to take some of the steam off the new PS3 announcement in Japan. Nintendo likely had to pay a chunk of change, but it will be worth it to get a non-Nintendo franchise in the fold. Most people were surprised when they initially announced that Monster Hunter was going to be on the PS3. Capcom and Sony's relationship seems to have soured as of late.

New 360 setup (Jasper) already in development for next year to replace Falcon layout........

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/200...es_jasper.html

Microsoft didn’t want you to know about Falcon, and it certainly doesn’t want you to know about its successor Jasper. But that’s another secret we have to unveil.

Jasper is the code name for the next motherboard for the Xbox 360. It will becoming next August, in time for next year’s holiday season. Jasper is going to have a 65-nanometer graphics chip from ATI Technologies, as well as smaller memory chips. That isn’t much information, but it’s enough to tell us about their cost-reduction plan. If you ask me, it’s a bit of a slow pace.

I don’t know why it will take Microsoft essentially three years to cost reduce the size of the graphics chip through a manufacturing shrink. It doesn’t seem like they’re in a hurry to launch a redesigned Xbox 360 graphics chip, considering that Intel introduced its first 65-nm chips a long time ago. ATI uses TSMC to make its chips out of Taiwan, and TSMC hasn’t been the fastest at moving to 65-nm manufacturing. I understand these tasks are difficult and they take a lot of engineering resources. Microsoft has had to divert a lot of engineers to debugging problems with Xbox 360 reliability. Even so, you would think that they would have moved faster, since the move to 65-nm graphics chip will likely be one of the best things they can do to improve the reliability.

As readers of this blog know, Falcon is being used in Xbox 360s that are currently rolling off the production lines. It has a 65-nm IBM microprocessor on it, instead of the previous 90-nm version. It also has built-in HDMI. It carries lower costs than the previous motherboard, but not dramatically so. And Falcon has a 90-nm graphics chip on it.

Here’s something that Xbox 360 buyers will want to know. Both Falcon and its predecessor Zephyr (used in the Xbox 360 Elite) have different thermal solutions than the original Xbox 360. You’ve seen the heat sinks in the cut-out photos posted elsewhere. The Microsoft engineers believe those heat sinks will be sufficient as a solution for keeping Xbox 360s from overheating. From their point of view, you don’t have to wait until Jasper to get a reliable machine.

From a neutral point of view, I would guess that Jasper would be more reliable than Falcon on heat issues, and Falcon will be more reliable than its predecessors. The Falcon board has the same old 90-nm graphics chip on it. And many have pointed out that the big heat problem in the Xbox 360 is due to the graphics chip. The Falcon board will likely give off less heat. But the real serious heat saver looks like it will come with Jasper.

I’m sure that Jasper will carry lower costs than Falcon. That’s because it will have a smaller graphics chip and smaller memory chips as well. That translates into material savings, which means lower costs. If you’re wondering why you should care? Maybe you don’t need to care. But there are folks on the Falcon thread who want to know this kind of information and here it is. Certainly, Microsoft will be in a position to cut prices again by next August. If you recall, after it got Falcon out the door, Microsoft cut $50 off the price of the Xbox 360.

If I were Microsoft, I would try to pull in the date of Jasper as soon as possible. What they need right now is a lower cost so that they can be more competitive against the Wii and so they leave no openings for Sony. As of now, the 65-nm graphics chip isn’t done. They’re still working on it. Microsoft declined to comment, other than to say that it constantly updates the components in the Xbox 360 but doesn’t comment on them.

Here's some other interesting news from the Nintendo conference:

Sonic the Hedgehog will be in Smash Bros. Brawl, but the release date has been changed from Dec. 3 to TBD. The game will also feature online co-op.

Square will be releasing a second Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles game on the Wii, but this one will be a download-only WiiWare title, due to come out next year. Other upcoming WiiWare games will include Dr. Mario, Star Soldier R, Pokeman Ranch, and a Bomberman game.

Super Mario Stadium Baseball announced for Wii, not much info given but I'm sure the title says it all.

Mario Kart Wii slips from Q1 2008 to Spring 2008, and will feature motorcycles (?!) for the first time.

The next game in the Fire Emblem series will come out for the DS.

WiiMusic was shown in a video montage so that's still in development. WiiFit is coming out in Japan next month, here sometime in 2008.

Soon you will be able to download DS demos on your Wii then transfer them over.

The US conference is today, hopefully Nintendo announces improved SD card functionality or some kind of hard-drive add-on because people aren't going to have any room to put all this stuff. Also I hope Smash isn't delayed too long.

Basically, yesterday was a good day for Wii/DS owners.

Timesplitters 4 announced; currently in development........

I wonder if it will be a trend. Here is an interesting article about developers shifting resources towards the Wii:

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/fe...00500000000009

If you are a game developer/publisher, you can't help but look at the sales of the Wii and think long and hard about how you can exploit that market.

I'm not a programmer, so my info is 2nd hand, but my understanding is that it's not a significant jump from a game engine side from the Gamecube to the Wii - i.e., if you have an engine that runs on the Gamecube, it's not a lot of extra work to get it running on the Wii, as opposed to the differences between the Xbox and 360 and the PS2 and the PS3. To the extent that is true, that's also a factor - cost of development.

Further, if you look at the kinds of games Nintendo is selling bucketloads of on the Wii, they're not terribly complex from either a programming side (not a lot of complex AI for example) or an art side - they're mainly about innovative gameplay and exploiting the unique controller scheme.

The downside is looking at the 3rd party sales for the Wii and wondering if yours will be the company that can buck the trend (Ubisoft being the primary exception so far).

How many third-party Wii games have deserved good sales, i.e. they didn't suck?

Here's a few that got decent reviews but didn't sell well (with GameRankings composite rating and sales figures courtesy of VGChartz):

Madden '07 - 82%, 400K
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz - 73%, 340K
Elebits - 75%, 220K
SSX Blur - 74%, 130K
Scarface - 71%, 60K

Now, I suppose you could look at those ratings and say "well, they weren't super awesome games", but I can tell you that publishers look at those numbers and scratch their foreheads in consternation - it's not easy to make a game that gets 80% or higher. Those games listed above are good efforts for the most part - not uniformly great, but pretty good games all things considered. And aside from Madden and Scarface, which were one of multiple SKU's and thus likely had very low development costs (since they were ports), they probably weren't profitable.

That's not to say that 3rd party developers aren't going to put more resources into Wii development - they will, simply because of the lure of the large and growing install base - but they are going to have to be smarter about realizing what the market is on the Wii and what will sell, given the fact the Wii install base is different (when looked at from a general perspective) than those for the 360 and PS3. My 72 year-old dad bought a Wii, and games like Resident Evil and Madden are not going to appeal to him, whereas games like Rayman and Wario Ware will.

Those Madden sales seem decent considering the game came out in November and any serious Madden fan bought the game in August their PS2/Xbox/X360. Are those numbers for Monkey Ball really that bad? (the site looks like it needs updating anyhow, I'm sure they sold a few copies in Europe) Blur I'll grant you bombed, Scarface was a year old port of a game that wasn't that highly regarded in the first place.

There have been a few third-party success stories:

Red Steel and Raymen both sold a million copies, Red Steel got poor reviews but that game was actually advertised which helped sales along with being a launch title. Trauma Center (quite good at 81% but a rehash of the DS title), Tiger Woods 07 (74%), Sonic and the Secret Rings (71%), and Resident Evil 4 (91% but the game first came out years ago) also did well sales-wise despite not being original, top-notch games.

When a third-party truly brings an actual new, high quality (in the 80s at least, preferably mid-80s) game that gets ignored because of Mario Party 17 (don't even mention Wii Play, that's a controller with a $10 game attached to it) then it would be a bit more concerning. The fact of the matter is that this has not yet occurred.

I mean alongside the one year headstart Microsoft had this generation, isn't the quality of the third-party XBox 360 games a big reason for their impressive sales? Bioshock, Guitar Hero II, Dead Rising, Tom Clancy's GRAW, these big sellers were all 85%+ games...