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NBA 2K10 Draft Combine Roundtable

The NBA 2K10: Draft Combine was released on Xbox Live a couple weeks ago, but since PlayStation 3 users could not get the title on the PlayStation Network until last Thursday, we decided to hold off on writing about the game until it was released on both consoles. But now that everyone can play the game, we were able to gather various OS staff members together to talk about the Draft Combine, as well as other topics that surround the title.

What are your impressions of the Draft Combine (include a score just for fun)?


Christian McLeod: The Draft Combine is one of the most enjoyable sports titles that I have played this year. Not only are the customization options for your created player extremely deep, but the games and drills are very rewarding to play through. In a twist on the typical career-mode formula, the developers have made attribute progression a somewhat difficult task. The game forces you to play proper team basketball in order to advance your character, something that could turn off those looking to become the next LeBron -- crab dribble and all.

It is the challenge to play the game the way it should be that has me so hooked. Since you have the ability to pick your position, as well as a role for that position (e.g. slashing small forward), the game will scrutinize you and punish you for veering away from your role. Many of the career modes out there currently place too much of an emphasis on immediately becoming a superstar. The Draft Combine forces you to work your way up from the bottom, and rewards you for properly playing the game of basketball (i.e. set screens, play help defense, box out for rebounds and so on). The game really should have been called Tom Izzo's Training Camp 2K10.

On the hardwood the game gives players a nice taste of what NBA 2K10 will have to offer. It takes some time to get used to the new turbo system, and as a direct result, the pace of the game seems to have been slowed down quite a bit. The slower pace and a lack of constant turbo really begin to show dividends once you realize how much better court spacing is this year. Gone are the days of feeling claustrophobic as you struggle to find an open man.

The animations also look great, and you can tell that 2K went through great lengths to remove some of the more awkward animations that have plagued the game for years, especially the animations that occur while playing in the post. Speaking of the post game, the new and improved right stick post-move system is a dream come true for those who love to pound the paint.

If the Draft Combine is any indication of how NBA 2K10 will play out when in control of an entire team, there is no doubt in my mind that we are looking at a strong contender for 2009 sports game of the year. If you love basketball and are a fan of the 2K series, go download NBA 2K10: Draft Combine without any hesitation.

If I had to give the game a score, I would give the game a 9 out of 10.

TD St. Matthew-Daniel: The Draft Combine is a nice addition to the NBA 2K franchise. Not only does it give you a "preseason" to work on your game, it also does a solid job detailing the main objectives of an actual NBA draft combine: workouts, drills and games against other NBA hopefuls.

Some of the drills could use a few additions -- things like a player who rebounds the ball for you, someone who passes you the ball, some ball racks, and perhaps even a coach or personal trainer. I do think those additions would make the drills more focused on the particular task at hand. However, those shortcomings are quickly forgotten once you hit the hardwood with your "My Player" because the game does a great job of adding even more authenticity to the gameplay.

I was amazed by how many positive things you can do to help your team. Boxing out, making good passes, setting good screens, spacing the floor, filling the lanes correctly -- these are all "little things" you can do to improve your teammate grade. If you successfully do all those things on a consistent basis, then your player might just be the next Shane Battier. On the other hand you can also go the J.R. Smith route and rack up a ton of negative points by being in a bad position, taking poor shots, hugging the rock for too long, making bad passes, etc.

Both those elements of the game, along with the three goals you’re out to accomplish each game, really make you think about your every move on both sides of the floor. The computer-controlled players also do a good job playing their own game, which is good because you are really only in control of your player and your destiny. This aspect of the game is where the NBA 2K10: Draft Combine really shines, which makes me even more eager for October.

I would give the game an 8.5.

Bryan Estrella: My impressions of the Draft Combine? Dang, what a great appetizer before the main course. I mean this is just supposed to be a taste of what's to come, but there are just so many positive elements to mention. For instance, the improvements to the AI should be noticeable to anyone who has played past NBA 2K games; the player customization options are staggeringly detailed and intuitive (I love that improving some ratings is easier/more difficult depending on your player position/type); the graphics are impressive; looking out for the new animations is always fun because they are usually a joy to behold; and the multitude of changes to the core gameplay (such as tweaking "turbo" usage) really makes you change the way you approach the game.

By releasing this DLC, I also believe that the team over at Visual Concepts has done a great job showing off how addicting the new My Player mode can be. I really enjoyed having to make certain decisions when creating a player, such as selecting a position and player type, because that results in a new experience each time you play through the Draft Combine. I mean playing as a center and then as a point guard would obviously be different, right? But the subtle differences between playing as a pass-first point guard and a scoring point guard, or a face-up power forward and a defensive power forward really underscore how many different possibilities are out there for the user.

Of course this wouldn't be close to possible if the developers had not also done a phenomenal job implementing an awesome player-rating system. It just works so well and covers a surprising amount of possible plays and results. And when combined with the previously mentioned changes to curb turbo abuse, you'll be forced to play a real team game if you're aiming to succeed. So you'll be rewarded for playing within the team and making smart decisions, and you'll dinged for hogging the ball, going for stupid steal attempts, being out of position and putting up terrible shot attempts.

Perhaps my only real criticisms of the Draft Combine are that I wish the developers had included more playing options -- going through continuous scrimmages can get old after a while -- and maybe a way for players to create multiple players. But really, for $5, I can't downplay how great this package is for that price. And overall, I have loved what I have experienced in the Draft Combine. But like many appetizers, it has left me wanting more.

Overall, I would give the NBA 2K10: Draft Combine an 8.5.

For a $5 downloadable game, does the Draft Combine offer enough to keep hardcore basketball gamers busy until 2K10 is released in October?


CM: Yes and no. If you understand that this is just a career mode experience, then I think you will be in hoops heaven. If you are the type of gamer that does not like career modes and expects to be in control of an entire team, save your money and play NBA 2K9 until October.

But I have to give Visual Concepts a huge amount of credit for pulling off a DLC career mode that is so deep and engaging. I was more than happy to open up my wallet and give the company $5 for what feels like a fully fleshed out game. The coolest part about the Draft Combine is that with its release date preceding the NBA 2K10 release by more than a month, you really get the feeling that you are completing the required drills and combine games so that you can get your player drafted in October. This fact alone allows me to enjoy the game for what it is, rather than trying to get through it as quickly as possible, which is something I would do if the mode were released with the full retail game.

TD: The Draft Combine is definitely worth the $5, but it’s not quite enough to keep the hardcore basketball gamers busy for another month. Not that it isn’t a good game, but once you lace up your player’s shoes, you don’t want to get off the court until your six combine games are done. What makes the game tick is the fact that you’re playing with set goals and objectives –- sadly the other games you can play, one-quarter scrimmages, don’t offer that feature.

BE: To be honest, it depends. I certainly wish there were more than just a few drills and six games included. And once you're tired of creating a bunch of players, you're just stuck playing through five-minute scrimmages, which can become tiresome. But perhaps after giving the game some time to breathe, the Draft Combine will be a nice game to just pick up and play when you have a few idle minutes to kill.

With the Draft Combine being offered as DLC that will translate to the retail version of NBA 2K10, should other developers use this same business model for their career modes moving forward?


CM: I would love for all developers to begin releasing these types of career-mode "combines" on a yearly basis to compliment their full retail career modes. Imagine how much fun the NHL 10 Be a Pro mode would be if you were playing through the World Junior Championships and working on improving your draft stock.

I know I would pay $5 to play these modes months before release, and is there a better way to promote a product then by giving the public a polished game that represents a version of the final product far better than a demo? Heck, many publishers are already charging consumers for early-release full-game demos anyway (Madden 10, Fight Night), so why not give consumers a full game with Achievements and Trophies instead?

TD: Yes. As the Draft Combine has shown, there is a market for prerelease retail-version games, and not just demos. Demos are merely a glimpse of the full game –- the Draft Combine is a whole mode that could enhance your experience with the actual game. In essence demos are trailers, and DLC like the Draft Combine are prequels.

BE: I think developers of other sports titles should certainly explore it, but only if they follow the 2K model of utilizing the DLC as a cheap way (very important point!) to give users a sort of extended-demo experience. These types of games would be a good way to familiarize users with the new features that would be included in the upcoming release. As a secondary point, these DLC releases would also allow developers to see how players react to these various changes, sort of like a beta test. So if the developers did spot something troubling, they could still tweak some things, which would only result in a stronger final release.

Can career modes like the Draft Combine or the EA Sports Hockey League (EASHL) survive as standalone downloadable-only games?


CM: If the Draft Combine proves anything to me, it is that these types of career modes can be self-sustaining DLC products. Personally, I would love to see developers take career modes off the retail disc completely, which would presumably leave some space on the disc for other single player and multiplayer endeavors. I think we have reached a point in online gaming where sports career modes are becoming more and more like MMO-style games, so why not release these titles as yearly DLC?

As an example, I love both the EA NHL and NBA 2K series, but I find that it's difficult to play franchises in both games on a yearly basis. It would be nice to alternate between an EASHL career mode and NBA 2K franchise one year and then vice versa the next. From a convenience standpoint alone, this type of business model makes perfect sense to consumers.

TD: I highly doubt that these games can be successful as standalone titles because, as noted earlier, a game like the Draft Combine is a means to an end. It is goal-oriented. Creating an entire game that just revolves around raising your draft stock without actually being able to play on the big stage significantly reduces its appeal. That’s living as Clark Kent without being able to become Superman. We sports gamers want the big leagues, not Smallville.

BE: If developers can maintain a certain amount of quality, depth and replay value in these modes, then I certainly think they can survive as standalone content. But to be perfectly honest, I would prefer that they leave the career modes in the full game. Instead, why not release updated versions of classic titles that we've seen included in some past games? An updated, online-enabled version of NHL 94 or NBA Live 96 on XBL or PSN? Yes, please.


We hope you all enjoyed this article. If you did and would like to see more of these roundtable-type reviews where we discuss the game, but also its scope in the grander scheme of things, then tell us that.


NBA 2K10: Draft Combine Videos
Member Comments
# 1 JkA3 @ 09/10/09 12:30 PM
For $5, what a great game. The Draft combine is a great addition to the series.
 
# 2 Bornindamecca @ 09/10/09 12:41 PM
Totally agree. This game was(and still is) a blast to play. I wouldn't have minded being able to play limited, meaningless online scrimmages though. Not like any bball find would find that as a worthy substitute for a full basketball game.
 
# 3 MelMan1486 @ 09/10/09 12:46 PM
For $5 I'm lovin the DC. With the creatoin of different style players it will deffinetely hold me down till the release.
 
# 4 RapboY @ 09/10/09 01:05 PM
yeah very much worth every cent of the $5, its a way for us fans to see an early demo, plus they make money off it, its a win-win!
 
# 5 Pared @ 09/10/09 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bornindamecca
Totally agree. This game was(and still is) a blast to play. I wouldn't have minded being able to play limited, meaningless online scrimmages though. Not like any bball find would find that as a worthy substitute for a full basketball game.
That's the only real thing I wished they included in this. I'm dying to take my guy online.

Guess that's going to bring the sales for 2k10.
 
# 6 TreyIM2 @ 09/10/09 01:41 PM
This is just a quick comment cuz I got ish to do and wanna catch Czar ep 2 on Live 10..

After rocking on the DC demo for a bit and being a bit underwhelmed (just seems like 2K9 all over again) yet having a bunch of fun with it and loving the whole playing one position (PG for me, baybeeee), I decided to go in and make the actual purchase of the full DC game - What a difference.

I was about to goto bed when I started a player, real quick, with the defaults except changing him to an all around PG and I got sucked in that I didn't goto bed for another hour because I was so much more into the combine. I deleted my save data so I can create a real player later today.

This kinda puts me back on the fence, again. I may end up with both 2K10 and Live10 which I'm starting to think I don't wanna blow 120 balls plus tax...but if I have to....
 
# 7 1WEiRDguy @ 09/10/09 01:58 PM
man...impressive doesnt even do the game justice. I like how the insider advises you against dumping points on attributes that dont suit your playing style...hopefully this will discourage cheesers who just wanna put all theri points in dunks and 3pts..I also love how much the attributes cost as you try to improve your player to really make it a strategy about where you put your attributes

The small things like setting screens away from the ball or a box out really add depth to the game imo...At first i was kinda bugged out that you could only play with your guy, but realized that was the best thing they could have done...think about it, if we were able to control the whole team, we would just pass it to the created guy so he can rack up all the stats...so im pleased with the decision to play only as your guy...

Great game 9/10
 
# 8 juicey79 @ 09/10/09 02:47 PM
Great buy I wish we could play full game scrimages instead of one 5 min qtr., but they will probably add to next years build. They should also give us a report of progress in scrimmage games disable us from earning any additional skill points.
 
# 9 sambowie @ 09/10/09 03:38 PM
Great article - but how the hell do the guys on the leaderboard have 99 ratings? Is there a cheat out there?
 
# 10 Shinyhubcaps @ 09/10/09 04:03 PM
PS3 leaderboard is 53 OVR tops. For Xbox 360, I think there's a hack, like those rosters in 2K9 that got 230 million downloads.

Regarding this roundtable, I agree with most sentiments. I believe that it could be off-disc, but maybe not for games like The Show that fit so much onto the disc and still have space remaining (unless they could fix those brutal Road to the Show load times). I don't normally buy games off-disc, so I'm not sure about how it would work for me, but take NHL 09. Most people who played that game did it for the online player-lock leagues, which is immersive in its own right, but then you have all of that stuff on the disc that they don't use.

So I could go either way on that... I suppose if you play both My Career/Road to the Show and Association/Franchise concurrently, you would want them on the same disc.
 
# 11 1WEiRDguy @ 09/10/09 06:55 PM
the guys with 99 ratings were testers...it has already been said their scores will be erased when the game comes out
 
# 12 BroMontana82 @ 09/10/09 08:08 PM
for $5 this was a good deal. too many people expected this to be flawless or really close to 2k10. it was just a glimpse of what 2k10 would be like and was more geared towards developing and customizing a player rather than having great gameplay.
 
# 13 hulkamaphone @ 09/10/09 09:33 PM
I think I might be alone in saying this but I'm getting increasingly concerned about these "micro transactions" for features that should be in the final game. EA has done it for some time now and it is really separating the consumers. I mean, why charge people for updates when they should be in the released game?

I can tell you know, if 2K offered live updates for free, but EA asked users to pay for them, I know that 2K would look like the better option. We are already paying $60 ($100 in Australia!) for games and I really can't see how publishers can justify charging extra for features or add-ons that should be considered a part of the "package".

I can see people saying "yeah well, if you don't like it don't buy it" which is fair enough, but 2K are telling its customers that in order to get a head start on your "my player" character, we need to spend $5 extra??? And don't get me started on the fact that Europe and Australia can't even access the game!

At some point, in the mad rush to get more customers, companies should start adding more value to their packaged product and not stripping it apart to extract more profit later on. My fear is that as these sorts of activities become the norm, more and more aspects of the game will be charged as add-ons. What are people willing to pay for? seasonal roster updates? extra jerseys and shoes?

It will be interesting to see how the DLC goes for EA's Fight Night Round 4. They are asking people to pay for a very small boxer roster that users have already made (and quite well) on boxershare anyway! It's just another weak attempt at money grabbing, and if your going to do a paid roster update, get a good number of boxers and ones who aren't retired!

As for splitting the game up and offering the "my player" mode as a separate game, I respect those that think it would work, but I'd have to disagree. The My Player mode is another way to add value to your product, and by taking that away all you will be doing is dividing your customers. I know that the My Player mode will initially take up 99% of my gaming. Does that mean I don't want the association mode or exibition? Definately not! I want the option to chose which mode I play, and I would think many people would try both at the same time or play one after the other. This is what I did with FIFA09, I started off in the "be a pro" mode and once I played 7-8 seasons and had enough I started the manager mode. By doing this, the game stayed fresh for me and I had something completely different to the individual mode I was previously playing. Things like this make this generation of games great, we don't need to separate this just to make an extra buck.

It would be interesting to see if 2K or EA does try this at some point, but I would guess the competitor would stick to the current model in order to attract more customers.

Thats just my two cents anyway...

[rant over]
 
# 14 hulkamaphone @ 09/10/09 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcxiv
i dont know how you can say this is stripping the game apart when the game never ever has had this mode. You get a whole 3-4 points advantage.
It's not really the points that bother me, its more the fact that you will have to go through summer league and even D-League to get into an NBA team (that comes from the 2K insights, that not using the DC will make things more difficult). I don't have much time to play as is, so for those that want to get into the game its a little hard.

TBH I would be happy if the combine part was the only thing they left separate from the main game. My point about "stripping the game apart" was more a fear that future versions would have more left out to give incentives to purchase add-ons.

For the record, as it stands now, I am fine with the Combine as it is (being standalone DLC), I just don't want to see it develop into a situation where users are purchasing a standard game and having to pay for every little extra (eg: alt jerseys, shoes, accessories, roster updates) I think those things should be in the final game for everyone!

Like I said, its not like this at the moment, but I would fear it may turn into that in time if these DLC offerings become more accepted. I could be wrong, but time will tell and I think it's something publishers should be wary of moving towards.
 
# 15 hulkamaphone @ 09/11/09 12:47 AM
The only way to stop something happening in the future is to bring up the issue now. Be proactive not reactive, thats all Im sayin'
 
# 16 CujoMatty @ 09/11/09 01:28 AM
I love the rpg elements ala MLB the show and I also like that it will probably take quite a few seasons to get a dominating player. I also like the animations and alot of the other things this DLC does and would definetly say it's worth 5bucks. Here's my problem this article doesn't mention the problems. That's just not very good journalism. Numerous times my player would get stuck on someone and do the whole Mario running thing. Also it just doesn't feel like my player always is doing what I want him to do. Mostly this can be chalked up to be because I'm stuck in an animation but it just shouldn't happen. Eg: pressure is on after the CPU scores with not much time left I'm up by two. I'm point gaurd so I run to get open catch the inbound 5 feet inbounds and my dude gets caught in some sorta hoppy catch animation and runs straight outta bounds. I've had enough of these type of instences happen to me that I feel it should have been worth mentioning if your considering paying for DLC. If it was a free demo I'd understand. Like I said IMO it's worth the 5 bucks I'll definetly be buying the game and I'm sure I'll love it but this article made it seem like this was the greatest thing since sliced bread and IMO a roundtable is there to discuss the good and bad which really didn't happen here.
 

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