Show Us The Love, Part I: Five Things Gamers Hate

Feature Article

Submitted on: 02/25/2008 by Dave Branda

Year after year, 2K Sports and EA Sports miss the mark when it comes to their games. They always seem to be close to making a truly great game, but then ceremoniously shoot themselves in the foot and revert in quality. You almost have to wonder if they’ve ever been told that certain things drives gamers wacky. Well …wonder no more. Here are the top five things sports game developers do that drive us to drink. And if we missed something that drives you looney, make sure to let us know in our forums.

1. Exclude Online Franchises from Their Plans.

Online gaming isn’t a frighteningly new concept any more, but it's something that hasn’t grown much in the past few years. At its heart it's still guys playing pick-up games against each other with the default rosters.

The current style of online play for most sports games is seriously lacking. We are a generation of gamers brought up playing off-line franchises with our brothers and friends. At this point we damn near have the desire to make trades, draft players and sign free agents in our gaming DNA.

So why are we stuck playing Manchester United every other game online?

If anything, online gaming has taken a step back. Those of us PC Madden gamers remember Madden 2001 fondly. Sure it was very buggy, crashed all the time and former commissioners still have those “corrupted franchise” nightmares.

But it was something sports gamers had been waiting for: a fully functional online franchise where you could be the player, coach and general manager. You think fantasy football drafts are intense? Try getting online with 30 other owners (no Texans yet at that point) and drafting fictional players that you would be playing with two times a week for the foreseeable future?

But instead of making it work, EA considered it too big a hassle and killed it. Online leagues still exist, but the leg work to make it work the same is no joke.

Hopefully the online coding has gotten to the point where somebody will give a true online franchise another shot. Sure 3v3 and 5v5 are cool features – but tell the masses a fully functional online franchise is coming down the pike and people will go bonkers.

2. Take Well Established Features Away

Trent: I wish they still had fights in this game so I could bitch-slap Wayne.

Mike: What? They don't have fighting anymore?

Trent: Doesn't that suck?

Mike: Why'd they get rid of the fighting? It was the best part of the old version.

Sue: I think kids were hittin' each other or somethin', man.

I guarantee everybody reading this nodded in agreement when watching this scene in Swingers. Since then NHL has taken out fighting, added fighting, taken out fighting, added fighting, taken out fighting, and added fighting.

It boggles the mind.

Let the following be noted. If you have a feature in the game for more than two versions it needs to stay. Taking features out people got used to isn’t cool. Adding them back in as a new feature a couple of years later deserves a spanking.

And if you do remove it you better make sure you’re putting in a new feature that fills the voids and handles it 10 times better.

3. No More Fake Currency! This isn’t Star Wars or World of Warcraft.

It amazes me that in this day and age some sports games still try to get us to sign baseball or soccer players in…I don’t know…ducats? Deutschmarks?

“Man I have to pay Wayne Rooney like 50 mad ducats a week!”

This year FIFA upped the currency bar. Not only are all transactions carried out in real world amounts -- you have your choice between pounds, dollars and euros! From feast to famine in one year!

4. Not Paying Attention to the Real Thing.

Realism is a big deal. After all, in most sports games we are trying to experience the same kind of actions, thoughts and strategies in our living rooms as the coaches, players and general managers do in the real world.

Hopefully the developers will keep that in mind the next time they design a game that figures it’s a good idea to bat A-Rod lead-off. Or feels Manny Ramirez should bat .400 for three consecutive seasons, probably because his face is on the box.

Free agent, transfer and trading systems should be as realistic to their real life counterparts as possible. Star players shouldn’t be passed around the league like Paris Hilton. Good running backs shouldn’t sign with a football team they’re not going to start on. And players shouldn’t accept a transfer to a team that is clearly playing at a level below what they are used to. One of our forum members just told a story about Drogba - an elite player for Chelski - signing with his League Two club. Much like the New York Subway - that just doesn't pass the sniff test.

Developers should also do their best to limit freaks, and perhaps temper the random naming of new players in international games. Personally I don’t know too many Ibrahim Gonzalez’s that hail from Ghana. Nor do I ever recall seeing a 300 pound fullback in the NFL, or a 6’5”, 300 pound defensive end that was as fast as Jerry Rice.

5. Have Some Fun

Just my opinion, but I think the sports games have gotten a bit too stuffy. What happened to the developers having a little fun and maybe throwing some easter eggs or funny commentary in the game?

I just think back to Mikey, Trent and Sue sitting on the coach.

What was the last game you can remember that did something like “make somebody's head bleed?" Or watch an ambulance tear ass across the field to pickup an injured player? Or made gamers genuinely laugh out loud at something that happened?

(I will give FIFA some credit – some of the manager’s mode scenarios are kind of funny).

Anyway, what are some of the things you think are the biggest issues with sports games today?

Member Comments

# 1 Glenn33 @ 02/25/08 03:35 PM

Can you add to the list - NOT having features in Next gen games that are in Current gen games (I'm talking to you Madden!)

# 2 ehh @ 02/25/08 03:55 PM

#5 is the biggest, too many sports games simply aren't fun anymore. The 2K basketball titles are about it for me these days, though MLB2K7 was fun but I definitely had to look past a ton of glitches to play it. Hopefully 2K8 will be very entertaining as well. I don't know if I'll ever buy another football title, they are way too complicated these days and provide little fun for me.

# 3 DrJones @ 02/25/08 04:24 PM

#1. Online leagues ARE a pain in the butt.

#2. Regarding EA's NHL series and fighting/blood inconsistency, I was told a lot of that was due to the NHL and the PA flip-flopping on how they wanted their league to be perceived (remember this was about the time that Bettman became commissioner). As far as dropping features when going from current-gen to next-gen, most of those features need complete rebuilding and can't get ported. Dev teams runs out of time.

#3. Real money is a league/PA issue. For years on EA's baseball series, for example, we couldn't use real dollars because the MLBPA didn't let us, so we had to use "points".

#4. As I've said before, most of the real decision-makers (execs, marketing) don't really care about realism. They want gimmicks to market, and those tend to chew up a lot of dev time.

#5. Devs are juggling many more balls than they used to. Quite often, I'm afraid, making a sports title is a mad scramble to make a ship date so you don't get canned/demoted.

I'm generalizing, of course. Some dev teams really go above and beyond. If your gameplay engine is really solid, it gives you more time to work on the little things. Sometimes stuff happens behind the scenes that screws everything up. The real problem is that games are much more complicated than they used to be and require a longer (2-year) dev cycle to do everything properly. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

# 4 A.M. Son @ 02/25/08 04:28 PM

I'll take all 5 of those suggestions and kind of roll them into one.
When it comes down to it, it seems that game developers don't listen to their customers (gamers). I don't know too many "other" business genres that can afford to regularly and consistently NOT listen to their customers. If developers realized that what gamers want is usually far more appropriate than a development team's whims and guesses, we'd not be in many of the scenarios we are in today.
Each of the areas laid out above would never have happened if the collective voice of the community were heard and appreciated. Especially in todays internet age, why is it that developers still act like they develop in a vacuum? Listen to gamers, and many of the criticisms and complaints would simply go away.... not to say they have to do everything we suggest or wish for, but just take our voice into more consideration is all.

# 5 DrJones @ 02/25/08 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.M. Son


	I'll take all 5 of those suggestions and kind of roll them into one. When it comes down to it, it seems that game developers don't listen to their customers (gamers). I don't know too many "other" business genres that can afford to regularly and consistently NOT listen to their customers. If developers realized that what gamers want is usually far more appropriate than a development team's whims and guesses, we'd not be in many of the scenarios we are in today. Each of the areas laid out above would never have happened if the collective voice of the community were heard and appreciated. Especially in todays internet age, why is it that developers still act like they develop in a vacuum? Listen to gamers, and many of the criticisms and complaints would simply go away.... not to say they have to do everything we suggest or wish for, but just take our voice into more consideration is all.

Read my post above. EA and 2K don't care about complaints unless they think said complaints result in lost revenues. Hardcore gamers are deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a vocal minority who rarely put their money where their mouth is. They complain and then buy the product anyway. From a business perspective, why cater to them?

# 6 mgoblue @ 02/25/08 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrJones


	Read my post above. EA and 2K don't care about complaints unless they think said complaints result in lost revenues. Hardcore gamers are deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a vocal minority who rarely put their money where their mouth is. They complain and then buy the product anyway. From a business perspective, why cater to them?

We have a winner!

That being said, I don't think the devs can win with the trade/free-agent engines. Not enough trades and people bitch and moan here. Too many trades people bitch and moan. If no big guys get traded then people cry. If too many get traded people cry.

Look at the NBA. If the game traded Shaq to Phoenix, Gasol to LA, and Kidd to Dallas people would be screaming that it wasn't "real", at least before this season.

I'm starting to get convinced that the "hardcore sports gamer" is someone who cannot be pacified by a game. A lot of people just want to find flaws and be angry. Not everyone here, just a lot of people. It's human nature to find flaws, but honestly IMO we take bug hunts too far. Just my opinion, I just try to avoid that and have more fun....the game ceases to be fun for me when I constantly read the forums looking for roster and minute gameplay issues.

# 7 Skyboxer @ 02/25/08 06:58 PM

I also agree with most, especially the "fun" part. Now it seems we do a lot of "work" to make the game enjoyable. If there were no sliders we'd just accept it and be having a blast with the game. Now it's a tweak fest all the time.

# 8 Cardot @ 02/25/08 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrJones


	#1. Online leagues ARE a pain in the butt.

Out of curiosity, what makes them tough? I can see how having two people from across the country play each other is tough. But putting the stats into a database doesn't seem beyond what game makers do these days. 2K has a pretty nice set up.

Just curious....I'm not doubting you.

# 9 Scott @ 02/25/08 07:31 PM

I agree with all of those...good list.

# 10 eDotd @ 02/25/08 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgoblue


	We have a winner! That being said, I don't think the devs can win with the trade/free-agent engines. Not enough trades and people bitch and moan here. Too many trades people bitch and moan. If no big guys get traded then people cry. If too many get traded people cry. Look at the NBA. If the game traded Shaq to Phoenix, Gasol to LA, and Kidd to Dallas people would be screaming that it wasn't "real", at least before this season. I'm starting to get convinced that the "hardcore sports gamer" is someone who cannot be pacified by a game. A lot of people just want to find flaws and be angry. Not everyone here, just a lot of people. It's human nature to find flaws, but honestly IMO we take bug hunts too far. Just my opinion, I just try to avoid that and have more fun....the game ceases to be fun for me when I constantly read the forums looking for roster and minute gameplay issues.

Agree 100%

There are a couple dudes in the NBA 2K forum who believe that if something hasn't happened in real life, than it shouldn't happen in the game.

# 11 A.M. Son @ 02/25/08 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrJones


	Read my post above. EA and 2K don't care about complaints unless they think said complaints result in lost revenues. Hardcore gamers are deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a vocal minority who rarely put their money where their mouth is. They complain and then buy the product anyway. From a business perspective, why cater to them?

You're right- no matter the business, changes won't be made until it's proven they will improve finances (or that not making changes will hinder business).
It's unfortunate that the gaming community is partially comprised of people who buy games semi-blindly and without knowing what to expect. This trial and error mentality of the community only helps to increase sales- they are not "speaking with their wallets".
But for those of us who are informed about the games we are buying, we should know better. We need to have better willpower to not buy what we perceive to be a sub-par product. I'll say that for me, it's not something I'm good at doing.

# 12 eDotd @ 02/25/08 08:12 PM

You also have to take how much freedom these leagues are giving devs while they're creating the game into account. Things that might have been cool in the past or included in the past may not sit well with the leagues today and their view on how their sport should be represented. Even IF they are apart of the game (eg - Technical Fouls)

# 13 superjames1992 @ 02/25/08 08:15 PM

New sports games just are not fun anymore to me... That is why I am playing ESPN NFL 2K5, ESPN College Hoops 2K4, NCAA Football 2004, and NCAA Football 06, though I still do play the NBA 2K series and the MLB 2K series.

# 14 DrJones @ 02/25/08 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardot


	Out of curiosity, what makes them tough? I can see how having two people from across the country play each other is tough. But putting the stats into a database doesn't seem beyond what game makers do these days. 2K has a pretty nice set up. Just curious....I'm not doubting you.

Unfortunately, I'm not a technical guy. From what I've been lead to believe, it's more of a time/manpower thing than it is nuts and bolts. The Powers That Be at EA (at least while I was there) weren't overly concerned about supporting online leagues, which meant individual dev teams weren't given the means to set them up properly.

# 15 DrJones @ 02/25/08 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.M. Son


	You're right- no matter the business, changes won't be made until it's proven they will improve finances (or that not making changes will hinder business). It's unfortunate that the gaming community is partially comprised of people who buy games semi-blindly and without knowing what to expect. This trial and error mentality of the community only helps to increase sales- they are not "speaking with their wallets". But for those of us who are informed about the games we are buying, we should know better. We need to have better willpower to not buy what we perceive to be a sub-par product. I'll say that for me, it's not something I'm good at doing.

The best thing to do (other than not purchase the games at all, of course) is to express your displeasure in forums (preferably the wishlist) like these within the first 2 months after the game ships. These are the most likely times for devs to be looking at boards like OS. You don't have to be deferential or anything, but civility will always get you further than "EA/2K is evil" or "the devs obviously added gimmick A and didn't fix bug B because they're lazy/stupid". Then hope for the best.

# 16 DrJones @ 02/25/08 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrcain


	The worst thing is not making the game fully customizable for each individual user. I should be able to edit anything and everything to my liking. Limits on this makes me really dislike console gaming.

Examples?

There tend to be 2 big problems with mega-customization:

1. The amount of time needed to test the game rises exponentially. Does changing A make B break, etc.? What if you change A, C, F, H, and Z?

2. The various leagues restrict customization of certain things. In MLB-licensed games, for example, you're not allowed to realign divisions, etc.

# 17 Steelerfan2k1 @ 02/25/08 10:11 PM

Still though - let me customize as much as possible. And - I can see your point about needing to devote a lot to this. But - I always appreciate it when a developer makes the effort.

# 18 Gary Armida @ 02/25/08 10:49 PM

Excellent piece. You hit the nail right on the head, especially with realism and fun. I know it's not "sexy" to the execs, but I do believe all gamers want fun and we hardcore gamers want realism too. So far, the Show and NHL 08 has been the only games to capture that for me.

# 19 ZM Punk @ 02/26/08 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgoblue


	We have a winner! That being said, I don't think the devs can win with the trade/free-agent engines. Not enough trades and people bitch and moan here. Too many trades people bitch and moan. If no big guys get traded then people cry. If too many get traded people cry. Look at the NBA. If the game traded Shaq to Phoenix, Gasol to LA, and Kidd to Dallas people would be screaming that it wasn't "real", at least before this season. I'm starting to get convinced that the "hardcore sports gamer" is someone who cannot be pacified by a game. A lot of people just want to find flaws and be angry. Not everyone here, just a lot of people. It's human nature to find flaws, but honestly IMO we take bug hunts too far. Just my opinion, I just try to avoid that and have more fun....the game ceases to be fun for me when I constantly read the forums looking for roster and minute gameplay issues.

Great example, I know I won't even go into any kind of bug/glitch thread anymore. People just make mountains out of mole hills and it used to basically ruin games for me, so now I just completely ignore them.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

# 20 Stroehms @ 02/26/08 01:35 AM

Fun Commentary. Like MVP baseball had or going back further to the Triple Play days. Let some Comedians do it and make them the learn the game and be funny at the same time.

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