Madden on the Frostbite Engine: Reactions

Feature Article

Submitted on: 02/03/2017 by

With the news landing that Madden was moving to the Frostbite engine, what is your initial reaction to the news?

Chris Sanner: First off, this is hardly a surprise. Madden was going to be using Frostbite this year and there was little out there to doubt that.

As far as what it may mean for this year's game, I'm honestly a little worried. Unlike FIFA, Madden is much more dependent on a lot more interactions and animations. To make a switch from Ignite to Frostbite (I'm assuming EA is still using Ignite?) has to be taking up a lot of manpower and time. Are we going to have a Madden 06 type of scenario where the game improves underneath but the results don't actually show for a few years? What parts of the game are not going to be getting upgrades to make up for the time moving to a new engine?

Something is going to end up suffering from this. Even if the end product is more beautiful, looks better, and overall makes the gameplay better -- I can't help but get a 'pit in my stomach' feeling that there'll be some disappointing news to come from this as well.

Fraser Gilbert: Those who aren't familiar with the FIFA series are probably feeling a nervous excitement about Madden's transition to the Frostbite Engine. As a 20-year veteran of the FIFA series, I've got mixed thoughts about it.

The much improved graphical features of FIFA 17 are excellent for the most part, and the series' new story mode wouldn't have been possible without Frostbite's addition. However, I felt FIFA's gameplay lacked polish in certain areas last year, resulting in a game that felt less satisfying than its predecessor.

I'm not skeptical about the Frostbite Engine's potential, but I think it'll take time. Hopefully, there won't be any major teething issues to speak of when it arrives in Madden 18.

Ryan Spencer: It's a bit surprising to me after reading hundreds of posts on the OS forums over the years begging EA to switch to a new engine that we are seeing such hesistance now that EA has finally decided to pull the trigger.

I don't think anyone should see the move to Frostbite as a magic bullet that will cure all the ills that plague Madden. The first year will be challenging to avoid glitches and unexpected impacts, but after that we should see improvements to environments, player emotion and lighting.

The move to Frostbite may push the Madden team to build a "MyPlayer" type mode as FIFA did this year with "The Journey". If done properly, this could be an exciting way to play the game and really provide a different Madden experience.

Josh Houtz: I for one was a bit let down when I heard that FIFA 17 would utilize EA's Frostbite engine, but Madden would be forced to wait an additional year. Little did I realize how much time and effort it takes to completely build a game from the ground up.

The difference graphically between a game like FIFA 16 & 17, were night and day. Facial features are far more prominent and the overall lighting and visuals were jaw dropping. Overall, the game just looked that much better. However, with a new engine being implemented came downfalls, which led to a game that felt unfinished and at times rushed.

Although it won't happen overnight, the end result of Madden's transition to Frostbite should be a good thing for the franchise. The idea of EA potentially implementing a "story mode" to Madden has me giddy, like a kid on Christmas morning. The transition won't be seamless, and Madden 18 could suffer because of it. When the dust settles a few years down the road, we will all be happy EA implemented the Frostbite engine into Madden.

Member Comments

# 41 Slim4824 @ 02/12/17 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Pick6


	In my opinion, EA should have continued in the same direction from 17 going into 18 and continue to work with the new engine behind it introducing it into 19. 15 was Ok. My first introduction to Madden on next gen. 16 I stayed away from watching gameplay. I bought the EA access trial and got to try 16 and was right about just sticking with 15 but when I finally got to try 17, I was blown away by the improvements and gameplay headed toward a more realistic football game and immediately bought the game right after. Basically I hope 18 on the new engine continues to build off 17 but I would have bought 18 if it was still on the same engine if it continued to refine and improved what 17 was. Looks like I will be buying another EA access trial again this year. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

They have been working on it for a couple years already

Sent from my SM-N920R7 using Tapatalk

# 42 Skyboxer @ 02/13/17 01:21 AM

There's a lot this game needs fixed/better that Frostbite has zero to do with.
I just hope those are addressed.

# 43 ChristonKirby @ 03/29/17 01:23 AM

Is it possible for them to implement all of the cleats and their color ways from FIFA 17 into Madden?

# 44 Brooke2011 @ 03/30/17 01:23 PM

EA was already preparing for frostbite prior to the 17 release. With that being said ,I can almost guarantee a drop in gameplay . Graphically it will have to show improvements because that is what the consumer will see to validate any progression from the prior year. I don't expect a huge leap graphically but I think EA will use this as a buffer to mask the shortcomings of a new engine on a less than perfect Ignite engine of years past.

I'm optimistic of the future especially for this year, but EA will use the transition as an excuse to downplay any flaws. I'm sure we'll here the excuse of how " we wanted to add this, but due to the complexity of the new engine and time constriction we just couldn't do it".

Maybe I'm wrong , but madden has been taking baby steps since 2000 in their progression and this year will be no different.

# 45 TheShizNo1 @ 03/30/17 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooke2011


	EA was already preparing for frostbite prior to the 17 release. With that being said ,I can almost guarantee a drop in gameplay . Graphically it will have to show improvements because that is what the consumer will see to validate any progression from the prior year. I don't expect a huge leap graphically but I think EA will use this as a buffer to mask the shortcomings of a new engine on a less than perfect Ignite engine of years past. I'm optimistic of the future especially for this year, but EA will use the transition as an excuse to downplay any flaws. I'm sure we'll here the excuse of how " we wanted to add this, but due to the complexity of the new engine and time constriction we just couldn't do it". Maybe I'm wrong , but madden has been taking baby steps since 2000 in their progression and this year will be no different.

I couldn't disagree with this post any more. Especially the part in bold with how the game has progressed the last 2-3 years.

# 46 roadman @ 03/30/17 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooke2011


	EA was already preparing for frostbite prior to the 17 release. With that being said ,I can almost guarantee a drop in gameplay . Graphically it will have to show improvements because that is what the consumer will see to validate any progression from the prior year. I don't expect a huge leap graphically but I think EA will use this as a buffer to mask the shortcomings of a new engine on a less than perfect Ignite engine of years past. I'm optimistic of the future especially for this year, but EA will use the transition as an excuse to downplay any flaws. I'm sure we'll here the excuse of how " we wanted to add this, but due to the complexity of the new engine and time constriction we just couldn't do it". Maybe I'm wrong , but madden has been taking baby steps since 2000 in their progression and this year will be no different.

I'm going to disagree with this too.

I think you are hedging your answer based on the past, going from xbox to the 360 etc......

I doubt we will be looking at a bare bones 18.

We will all find out soon enough and I agree with Shiz, this game has grown well over the past few years.

# 47 Brooke2011 @ 03/30/17 05:15 PM

Hopefully I'm wrong.... i don't think madden has made the same strides as other sports games. Still being plagued by inaccurate player models, player movement and a glitchy CPU, Madden 18 needs to show some major overall.

A prime example would be that if not for the score banner and actual logo of madden 17 it was hard to tell it apart from madden 16 or even 15.

Yes adding more cleats and inaccurate one arm sleeves might be appealing close up , but from a distance there was really not that big of a difference to justify 60$ for a new game that could just as well be patched in via an update.

# 48 vrtkolman @ 03/30/17 05:58 PM

I'm mostly interested in franchise mode changes and it sounds like with the focus on multiplayer and integrating a new engine, there probably won't be any.

There aren't many appealing parts to franchise mode right now. The AI trade logic/roster management/draft logic/depth chart logic are all really bad. The scouting system was a decent overhaul but was more a gimmick than anything, too easy to out draft the CPU. Everything is outdated (no comp picks, outdated formation sub system). The UI and overall presentation is horrendous. Frostbite isn't going to help with this.

# 49 4thQtrStre5S @ 03/30/17 06:06 PM

I believe, as far as game play, the Frostbite engine will show improvement..I also believe that MUT and Tournament play is a huge part of the positive changes that I believe will be seen in M18, such as AI for CPU controlled players, reduction of suction situations, more visual animations that match and are connected to the intended action on the field, for example, when a ball is swatted away by a defender, we will see the defender's hand make contact with the ball, and other such animation improvements...

I place much credit to MUT and the Tournament play because that is what has brought the most "eyes" onto the game and its game play...There is a large audience viewing these tournaments and those viewers, along with those top players participating, all want to see crisp, clean, game play, with animations that represent what the player can do, and it has to be clean and logical on the screen...

In addition, I expect to see even more emphasis on animation variety; fans want to see variety in these big games...

Because of these Tournaments and the direction to build on these competitive games, which has included the largest purse to date, with M17, for the winner, the Frostbite introduction cannot be anything but a step forward because too much is riding on its success..

**Side Note: Xbox One also just introduced their BEAM game streaming system, so now it will be even easier to show off your game play, and thus the games have to be cleaner from here on out...IMO

# 50 DeuceDouglas @ 03/30/17 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooke2011


	I'm optimistic of the future especially for this year, but EA will use the transition as an excuse to downplay any flaws. I'm sure we'll here the excuse of how " we wanted to add this, but due to the complexity of the new engine and time constriction we just couldn't do it".

This is something I'll be interested in and paying close attention to once we start getting into the thick of things. We all know that this transition likely isn't happening overnight/over-cycle and has been in the works for some good time so I agree that we'll undoubtedly hear that line in some capacity when it comes to the flaws but I also think whatever they're selling for 18 will also get the "we've been working on this for 2+ years making sure it was ready for Frostbite" bit as well. I think it will give some interesting insight on how and where time is being spent in regards to certain areas of the game. I'd honestly be happy if they used the transition to simply clean up all of these aspects of the game that have needed attention for years. I think that would actually sell the new engine better than anything "shiny and new" but I'm sure marketing will believe otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrtkolman


	I'm mostly interested in franchise mode changes and it sounds like with the focus on multiplayer and integrating a new engine, there probably won't be any. There aren't many appealing parts to franchise mode right now. The AI trade logic/roster management/draft logic/depth chart logic are all really bad. The scouting system was a decent overhaul but was more a gimmick than anything, too easy to out draft the CPU. Everything is outdated (no comp picks, outdated formation sub system). The UI and overall presentation is horrendous. Frostbite isn't going to help with this.

This is what continues to worry me most. No matter how great the engine is, it's not going to change any of this and, with that, it's going to make it very hard for me to enjoy the game. Last year was a huge flop IMO and I really hope with this transition they don't decide to go the way of FIFA and introduce a new single player RPG mode for CFM.

# 51 roadman @ 03/30/17 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooke2011


	Hopefully I'm wrong.... i don't think madden has made the same strides as other sports games. Still being plagued by inaccurate player models, player movement and a glitchy CPU, Madden 18 needs to show some major overall. A prime example would be that if not for the score banner and actual logo of madden 17 it was hard to tell it apart from madden 16 or even 15. Yes adding more cleats and inaccurate one arm sleeves might be appealing close up , but from a distance there was really not that big of a difference to justify 60$ for a new game that could just as well be patched in via an update.

Yeah, I'll need to agree to disagree with you here.

The commentary alone is much better than 15 and 16 combined. There is full player editing, something the community has been preaching for quite awhile. I was surprised, but I did some Play the Moments feature and liked it.

I'm not big on graphics, it's all about the game play for me. I don't own a PS4, but I know TheShow is a great game, but honestly, I still have Madden, but traded in 2k17 after the first of the year. They need to focus on the defensive AI in that game before I come back to it.

Madden, as I mentioned in the patch thread, needs a overhaul in the CPU AI area, that much I agree with you on. The play calling from the CPU needs to improve by a lot, FG's need to be where they were when the game came out, the challenge system needs updating, the doubling of WR's/shading needs improving and I want to have my best corner dog the best WR.

Fix the above, I feel Madden can join the "elite" of sports games, whatever definition that is for each individual.

Again, hoping separate modes of MUT vs offline real deal NFL football come into play with 18.

# 52 Madden08PCgmr @ 03/30/17 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrtkolman


	I'm mostly interested in franchise mode changes and it sounds like with the focus on multiplayer and integrating a new engine, there probably won't be any. There aren't many appealing parts to franchise mode right now. The AI trade logic/roster management/draft logic/depth chart logic are all really bad. The scouting system was a decent overhaul but was more a gimmick than anything, too easy to out draft the CPU. Everything is outdated (no comp picks, outdated formation sub system). The UI and overall presentation is horrendous. Frostbite isn't going to help with this.

That's exactly where I land on this, and basically, I'm accepting it and moving on.

Gameplay isn't a deal breaker for me. Replay value is, and Madden almost always had that. Even the versions most widely criticized.

The fluff doesn't matter to me either. Cleat color? C'mon. I grew up on Super Tecmo and 64-bit gaming. Cleat color? You kidding me?

I enjoyed the gameplay this year, I thought it was the best since the PS2 days. But there just isn't enough in this game to keep me coming back. All due respect, for my tastes, Madden is an arcade game, it's not a football sim anymore.

It was a fun ride, but for me, I think it's about to come to end.

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

# 53 SolidSquid @ 03/30/17 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr


	That's exactly where I land on this, and basically, I'm accepting it and moving on. Gameplay isn't a deal breaker for me. Replay value is, and Madden almost always had that. Even the versions most widely criticized. The fluff doesn't matter to me either. Cleat color? C'mon. I grew up on Super Tecmo and 64-bit gaming. Cleat color? You kidding me? I enjoyed the gameplay this year, I thought it was the best since the PS2 days. But there just isn't enough in this game to keep me coming back. All due respect, for my tastes, Madden is an arcade game, it's not a football sim anymore. It was a fun ride, but for me, I think it's about to come to end. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

My sentiments exactly. Madden is just missing the IT factor. MyLeague in 2k keeps me engaged, the show keeps me engaged, after one season of a cfm in madden it's like ok I've won the Super Bowl now what? There's just no life to the most important game mode to me. Hopefully frostbite can fix the animations and player interaction but there's no way it's gonna make the game more engaging

# 54 roadman @ 03/31/17 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSquid


	My sentiments exactly. Madden is just missing the IT factor. MyLeague in 2k keeps me engaged, the show keeps me engaged, after one season of a cfm in madden it's like ok I've won the Super Bowl now what? There's just no life to the most important game mode to me. Hopefully frostbite can fix the animations and player interaction but there's no way it's gonna make the game more engaging

I agree CFM needs a lot more oomp to it, but I also need gameplay improved on the CPU side. I can't just give that a pass and say, engage me more. Personally, I'd prefer better gameplay vs deep immersion in CFM and personally, I wouldn't mind both.

The defensive gameplay in 2k disengaged me something fierce.

# 55 adembroski @ 03/31/17 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vrtkolman


	I'm mostly interested in franchise mode changes and it sounds like with the focus on multiplayer and integrating a new engine, there probably won't be any. There aren't many appealing parts to franchise mode right now. The AI trade logic/roster management/draft logic/depth chart logic are all really bad. The scouting system was a decent overhaul but was more a gimmick than anything, too easy to out draft the CPU. Everything is outdated (no comp picks, outdated formation sub system). The UI and overall presentation is horrendous. Frostbite isn't going to help with this.

Frostbite won't be uses for game modes. It will replace Ignite (which isn't an engine at all) for Gameplay only.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

# 56 PhillyPhanatic14 @ 03/31/17 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Frostbite won't be uses for game modes. It will replace Ignite (which isn't an engine at all) for Gameplay only. Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

I don't know that this is confirmed but it's an important point to say that switching to frostbite doesn't guarantee that everything will be reworked. I love the FIFA gameplay this year but they literally didn't touch a thing in career mode from the year before. All the logic and everything is the exact same.

# 57 EricFreakingBerry @ 03/31/17 10:52 AM

I keep holding out hope from one console generation to the next, one engine overhaul to the next, that they'll pair up the most complete playable version of football in gaming history with the most complete franchise mode in gaming history.

Obviously, I've been a bit let down every year because of my ridiculously high expectations.

I just feel like Franchise mode is the meat of a sports game. I don't fault anyone for playing MUT or play online H2H as their source of enjoyment from these games, but for me I can't get "immersed" into anything but franchise mode.

I *have* to be in control of a team, trying the various combinations of strategy to field a team capable of winning the Super Bowl. I like going up against my close friends and family, but I also want the teams not fielded by those real people to be controlled by an AI that is worth its code.

Frostbite will undoubtedly be a better move for the gameplay of the game. I don't expect the game, however, to be perfect on the new engine for '18. I'm sure new AI issues on the field will arise, new glitches will rear their ugly head, and sometimes we'll probably say "why did they do this?"

But if they only have to work on improving the engine for '19, I can hold out hope that '19 will be the "year" for franchise to really get its deserved overhaul.

# 58 adembroski @ 03/31/17 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyPhanatic14


	I don't know that this is confirmed but it's an important point to say that switching to frostbite doesn't guarantee that everything will be reworked. I love the FIFA gameplay this year but they literally didn't touch a thing in career mode from the year before. All the logic and everything is the exact same.

Franchise mode has its own engine, specifically built around an event-calender system. Frostbite isn't built for any of that. It's built to ease work flow between assets, models, environments, and animations. FranTK is built for scheduling events and resolving them in a menu interface. Using frostbite would be, frankly, stupid.

My prediction on Frostbite's effect? Better lighting, better sidelines. Otherwise, very little difference.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

# 59 adembroski @ 03/31/17 11:32 AM

Oh, andI don't mean that as a knock. It's going to take time to change the entire look of the game. Also, I think a lot of people hear "engine" and think that means the same as a car. An engine in gaming is nothing more than a unified toolset. It doesn't, in and of itself, change anything except streamline development and provide some baseline graphical tools. Frostbite does not, for instance, make AI or locomotion better.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

# 60 Madwolf @ 03/31/17 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Oh, andI don't mean that as a knock. It's going to take time to change the entire look of the game. Also, I think a lot of people hear "engine" and think that means the same as a car. An engine in gaming is nothing more than a unified toolset. It doesn't, in and of itself, change anything except streamline development and provide some baseline graphical tools. Frostbite does not, for instance, make AI or locomotion better. Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

Frostbite is going to bring a much better lighting system for sure. The game will look much better.

Now I do believe it's animation system and physics system is better too. So it can definitely affect the way Madden plays. Hopefully it allows them to make more noticeable differences in ratings in the trenches.

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