Stan Van Gundy: "This isn't a video game." - SteveM's Blog

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Stan Van Gundy: "This isn't a video game." Stuck

Posted on March 4, 2013 at 11:10 AM.

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So I was in Boston this past weekend covering the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference for ESPN's TrueHoop Network, and one of the most interesting panels of the weekend was the last one, Basketball Analytics. An array of guests (including Spurs GM R.C. Buford, Pacers GM Kevin Pritchard and Celtics assistant GM Mike Zarren) talked about the ways their teams employ advanced stats and analytics and what the future looks like for these tools, but by far the most opinionated and entertaining guest was Stan Van Gundy, former coach of both the Miami Heat and Orlando Magic.

Van Gundy is best known for the spread pick-and-roll offense he ran with the Magic. In essence, it puts a ball-handling point guard on the floor alongside a dominant big man and three long-range shooters. On the Magic, this was Jameer Nelson, Dwight Howard, and a mix of J.J. Redick, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson and Vince Carter. The basic principle is that you want the overwhelming majority of shots to be either three-pointers or at the rim, with little to no midrange game.

Van Gundy explained that when he and the team were getting excoriated in the local press for not having "good basketball guys" who could hit midrange jumpers, he said, "Thank God." He didn't use advanced analytics to build his offense; in an example straight out of Malcolm Gladwell's Blink, he used his years of experience to help him intuit a solution that is borne out by the advanced numbers.

But this was where it got interesting for video game players. Because even as he explained his offense, Van Gundy made a point of coming back time and again to lightly bash the analytics guys who are trying to improve a team's efficiency. "This isn't a video game," he kept saying. It was mostly in the context of saying that while going 2-for-1 at the end of a quarter is mathematically the right thing to do, it's not always the right thing to do when it comes to building the culture of the team. These are, after all, human beings who don't see everything logically or rationally�they see things in relation to who they are. If a guy gets the green light to take a bad shot, Van Gundy said, it breaks the system a little and opens the door for another guy to take a bad shot at another time.

So yes, Van Gundy is right: real basketball in the NBA is not a video game where you control each player in turn and don't need to deal with the social or psychological ramifications of a bad shots. You can make Nick Young take 30+ bad 3-pointers in a video game one night and it won't carry over to his attitude or the team's the next time you power up your Xbox.

But on the other hand, I and other basketball video game players absorbed the lessons of the spread pick-and-roll a long time ago. Like the Magic under Van Gundy, I want almost all my shots to be good 3-pointers or layups and dunks. Those are the most efficient shots, but they also happen to be the glamour shots.

Teams are beginning to absorb the lessons of advanced analytics, but is there now or will there ever be things they can learn from video games? Do you largely use a mix of 3s and dunks/layups in NBA 2K13? What do you think?

Comments

# 1 tril @ Mar 4

excellent topic. My offense in 2k13 is I take what the defense gives me. I dont think there is enough differntiation or risk/reward for that to matter.
But what I do find intersteing in what VAn Gundy said is something that could be incorporated into the game.
THat is basically bad shots and possessions should have more of an effect on your teams ability to execute and perform. this should be worked in to a player who is on a hot or cold streak also. if a man is hot and he continues to shoot the other players should be affected in their performance, if a player is warming up or hot and then sits that should also affect performance. The number of touches/shots a player gets should also affect performance.

# 2 SteveM @ Mar 4

@tril: It would in particular be interesting if a player getting hot in some situations could effectively be a negative for the rest of the team. I mean, I guess this plays out in some way now within Associations since players who don't get minutes will start playing worse, but it would be interesting to see 2K implement a more nuanced version of team chemistry in future games.

# 3 tril @ Mar 4

@SteveM
thats what I was thinking also. A hot player in some situations can hurt the team as a whole.

# 4 oldman @ Mar 4

This is just like the whole Moneyball things. Yes you can look at the stats and piece a team together that will be successful some of the time, but you also have to take into account the human aspect at some point.

# 5 iceberg760 @ Mar 4

really enjoyed this article/topic!!

# 6 deacon21206 @ Mar 5

The problem with it is there would be no way to truly depict the pschy of a player and would result in a lot of bad outcomes in the game. Truthfully momentum and things along that line can't accurately be displayed in a videogame due to thee unpredictability. If you try to make some clutch on defense you will end up with D12 getting mid court steals on Chris Paul or you will get Rey Lewis chasing down Desean Jackson.

# 7 DGMikeBarker @ Mar 5

I'm personally a fan of taking the best shot available for the player's skill set, but ever since Stan Van Gundy roamed the sidelines for the Magics I've always agree with him about the pointlessness of the mid-range jumper mathematically.

As for team chemistry, willy veterans need a stronger importance on video games than just on-court signature skills like Floor General & Defensive Anchor. Veterans like Juwan Howard make more of an impact to their teams off the court than on it.

# 8 Jarbeez @ Mar 5

I disagree with Van Gundy on the whole. I think if you use the entire half court, with plenty of motion and versatility among players you are a tougher team to defend. Having 3 guys waiting on the 3 point line, leaves 3 defenders not having to move around much.

I prefer a motion type offense with off ball screens, back cuts, and the best shot being taken from wherever on the court it happens to be for a particular play. Also, I think we have seen what happens to that offense when the big guy that it is built around goes down.

# 9 Jimbo614 @ Mar 11

I'm looking at this from a video game AI question;
But doesnt 2K have Team Chemistry? How is that factored? And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't The Show have a feature where players and thus teams go on hot and cold streaks? Matter of Fact, even Madden has hot and cold tendencies.
Isnt that what Van Gundy is talking about? If it is, then he hasnt played a video game for awhile.