How to change a Casual Boxing fan into a hardcore: The posts and debates - SHAKYR's Blog

SHAKYR's Blog

How to change a Casual Boxing fan into a hardcore: The posts and debates

Posted on November 16, 2012 at 03:06 PM.

(2)

This is going to be a series of discussions from fans who want the series to take the next step in realism.

[Can EA educate the Fight Night fans about boxing through Fight Night?]
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/4938789.page

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Gor


	You know what would add to the game? Write ups or short bios of each licensed boxer! I sure as hell would like to know about the guys I'm fighting with/against, it gives them personality. Be it a separate section in the menu, or a little pop up you can choose to view when selecting your boxer, just something to really educate the fans about boxing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hustyv13


	"POETICDRINK2U wrote: I say yes, if that is their overall goal. They need to make a game that represents boxing fully. Does Fight Night Champion do this? No! I must say the game is taking steps in the right direction. How big of a step I will keep to myself; for now! In the words of Mack Mittenz...... Make Boxing! GIFSoup that's all we want nothing more nothing less." FNC won't educate people about boxing, because the basics are misrepresented. As simple as that. A boxing game should represent boxing from A to Z, just like how basketball games represent basketball as it is. I would prefer a good punch reaction from a counter than a big flash anytime. You won't see ground shaking or big flashes when someone dunked a ball, because it doesn't happen when you watch a basketball game. I can write a lot more things, but my first sentence sums it all up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsGamer2010

Quote:

"POETICDRINK2U wrote:

ej1002 wrote:
and how do you define boxing?

You are new here if you have to ask me of all people. Boxing is everything you see in boxing. You have the different boxing styles, the different punch speeds different boxers have, you have the different tendencies, ring generalship, movement, different referees with different criteria's, different judges with different tendencies, you have promoters, managers,trainers...the atmosphere like press conferences, staredowns, touching of the gloves, the referee giving instructions, the weigh-ins, the doctor stopping fights, the doctor tending to you after a KO/TKO.

...............I can go on and on but to sum it all up just make boxing!"

I'm with you here...at first I thought you were on some b.s. I think what we have with FNC is what we had back when we played nba live before the nba2k series dropped.... Everyone thought live was fun and then when 2k dropped we realized that we had been playing an arcade game for years. I think EA can give this to us in time and this game is a positive step in that direction...trust me!! One of the few things that we have as consumers these days is power with our voices and word of mouth! Proof of that would be the nba2k vs nbalive series... Just be patient, it will come! For now lets just enjoy what we have and look to the future! I do agree with you though that there are alot of things that could make the game more lifelike...but I'd bet money that we aren't far away from being satisfied!

If you educate someone on something their interest goes up and that is a good thing. There are more people who follow boxing that are customers of this game. Their are also fans who can learn about if the right representation and depth is added.

Boxing always has gone through it's dry spell. Boxing will never die.

I will be posting various debates I have been going through with the producers and fans at a later time.

[Fight Night needs an Advisory Council]
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/8472601.page
[POETICDRINK2U=quote]
http://www.analoghype.com/video-game...isory-council/

They need a group of boxers, trainers, and gamers who know the sport to give them detailed advice. They are/is going to do this with their upcoming NBA Live 13 basketball game.[/quote]

[POETICDRINK2U=quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooochie76


	eddie chambers might be up for it.

Yes, He said he was up for it. I did a interview with him on a podcast with the rest of the Fight Night Podcast crew (Indigo, Reignmaka, Poeticdrink2u, and special guest)

He said they need consultants too the way other sports games have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1LL3R_C


	Just opened the link. Hopefully the FN franchise receives enough support from EA so that a program like this would exist instead of using us as test subjects.

I agree.[/quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooochie76

Quote:

Originally Posted by POETICDRINK2U

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooochie76

eddie chambers might be up for it.

Yes, He said he was up for it. I did a interview with him on a podcast with the rest of the Fight Night Podcast crew (Indigo, Reignmaka, Poeticdrink2u, and special guest)

He said they need consultants too the way other sports games have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1LL3R_C

Just opened the link. Hopefully the FN franchise receives enough support from EA so that a program like this would exist instead of using us as test subjects.

I agree.

yes i remember the interview he gave good detailed feedback.

it seems to me that the devs wouldn,t have no trouble reaching out to a guy like eddie.

i am sure there are more boxers who would be willing to lend there assistance if asked.

the trouble is ea, they don,t take boxing seriously as a sport.

i think they see fight night more as a fighting game than a sports game.

i have seen small improvements in some areas of the franchise over the years thanks to all the wish lists and fan input over the years.

sadly though these improvements have not reached legacy mode which is my main thing, and to me constitutes the best avenue for a total boxing experience, more so than just playing online or a champion mode.

[The wish list for Fight Night Round 5 has been sent]
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/90/314728.page

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA_MikeMahar Fight Night Developer


	Apologies for entering the fray so late ... The development team have been in constant contact with members of the community team via email but I'd like to take the time to publicly thank each of you�especially our forum mods�for contributing to the wish list. I�ve read the doc multiple times and keep a printed copy on my desk which other dev team members borrow and review. We appreciate your passion for the game and we�re striving to improve and deliver as much of what you�re asking for as possible. That said, I think everyone should keep in mind it is unlikely we�ll be able to deliver every feature being requested�but we�ll try our best. For the record� There is another Fight Night 4 DLC Pack and Title Update coming out that addresses some of the issues brought up in this forum. I CAN�T give you the exact details and dates yet but the development team has not dropped FN4 and moved on. Thanks again for your suggestions....keep them coming. -Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brizzo

I'm just going to quote myself, because I think I've already made my point of view pretty clear...

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.Brizzo EA FIGHT NIGHT Producer

I don't believe there are any forum threads or interviews where you will find members of the Dev team saying, "sim won't sell". That's never been our position. We're not opposed to making the game more sim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.Brizzo

Dude, feel free to criticize the choices we make all you want. But please don't make assumptions about the amount of effort this team puts into the game because you don't agree with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.Brizzo

Like I said, people that have issues with certain decisions we made and that want to give us constructive criticism, I can live with and I listen to, happily. People that act like we made the worst boxing game ever and believe its because we're half-assing it, just trying to rip people off... there's really no point in listening to what they have to say. They're too irrational to offer anything fruitful to the discussion.

In other words...

You don't like camera shakes? Cool.
You don't like screen flashes? Alright.
You don't like camera zooms? Understood.
You think the jab should be more impactful? I get it.
You think guys shouldn't be able to take 4 hooks from Tyson? I hear what you're saying.
You want the AI to behave more realistically? Me too.
You wish that no exploits existed? Don't get me started.

We're working on this stuff, and more

You want to calls us names and disparage the effort we put forth? I hope it makes you feel better. Because I don't see what other purpose it serves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab16

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbox.StillThe Master

Would a sim boxing game sell...? Of course it would... but let's face it, so would an arcade boxing game.

Which would sell the most...?

Now there's a question that's not so easy to answer as there are a lot of external factors to be considered but I do have my theory on this ;-)

Still.

Maybe five or ten years ago an arcade boxing game might've outsold a sim boxing game, but I don't think it would now. All the sports games that sell the best today are getting closer and closer to the real thing every year. Games like NBA 2K, MLB The Show, NHL 2010, FIFA, Madden, and so on all do very well mainly because they do mimmick the real thing. Plus gamers are getting older and love the pure realism that these games bring. I know guys in their 40's and 50's that love having tournaments with these games. I know older dudes that are so STOKED for NBA 2K11 just because ot Jordan! Games are just not for kids anymore, believe me.

Plus Facebreaker, the last arcade boxing game that I know of, didn't sell so well. I think that's an indication that realism is taking over the sports game world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACKMOON

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbox.HoW Monty

wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbox.StillThe Master

wrote:

Hi Poe,

I have a world of respect for you - you know that however I can't completely agree with the part of your statement highlighted above. What happens is that people SEE what happens in the ring and then INTERPRET that information and it is in the interpretation that disagreements lie.

As an example, I'm pretty sure that you could almost without thinking reel off twenty or thirty real cliff hangers of big fights where it has been a close call. Although the judges decide who won you have people (hardcore fans) on both sides of the fence arguing for months or even years about who ACTUALLY won. This has been played out on this forum more than once when talking about Ali Vs Frazier.

Sure - we all see the same thing, but we interpret it differently.

Let me mention something else that is related to this topic....

People say that hardcore fans / gamers "know" what will enable FNC to be a great game. This seems to imply that the views of so called casual gamers count for nothing and from time to time on this forum they are treated as second class citizens as can often be seen by responses of some members. But what actually constitutes a "hardcore" fan? Does that person need to play the game for 30 hours each week? Watch at least 20 boxing bouts per month? What actually is it and how does one attain that elite status?

One could argue that if the above is the criteria for entry into the elite "hardcore" club that actually the views of casual gamers should be considered to be more legitimate because they clearly have balance - In addition to playing five or six hours of games each week they have a healthy family life, a career as well as actually go outside and smell the roses from time to time. For casual gamers video games are a only small part of their life and when offering ideas and suggestions they are coming from wide ranging life experience - Not just a gaming or boxing perspective.

Don't make me have to put out a call for all the casual gamers to unite against you guys - Sure if we were all locked in a room you guys would kick our butts however there are so many of us that you'd end up breaking your hands on our jaws and then those of us who you hadn't been able to catch would return, revive our fallen comrades with a special drink that we had collected earlier that day after executing a feat of extreme dexterity and then we'd overwhelm you with our street fighter style blows that come complete with screen shakes and flashing lights

Still.

A hardcore fan is anyone who agrees with the Wishlist Mafia all the time. A casual fan is anyone else.

If EA came up with all these ideas that Poetic/wishlist mafia brought to the table, you would praise them!

Why make a boxing game that doesn't represent the sport? if you don't like boxing that's fine, go play Street Fighter or Tekken. Why should EA to cater to the casual fan? some casual fans like Mario and Call of Duty? should EA put magic mushrooms, fireballs and machine guns in fight night too?

At the end of the the day who has a more valid argument, someone who wants a boxing game to actually be like boxing? or someone who wants what they want! because they don't really like boxing?

And before I forget, thanks to all the "casual" fans that ruined Fight Night because they don't like boxing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brizzo Developer


	If it weren't for the casual fan, boxing would be so far out of the spotlight and such an unattractive market that the only games you guys would have are the text-based simulators that Poetic loves and maybe PS2 copies of FN2004. The "casual" fan is the difference between a Pacquiao PPV that does 1,500,000 buys and Juan Diaz PPV that does 300,000. Don't blame this on a group of fans, blame it on the business of boxing. There was a time when a lot more people were a lot more knowledgeable about the sport. Because it was accessible. Because the best fighters fought more than once or twice a year. Because the best fighters fought each other. Because showcase mismatches for protected prospects weren't on PPV. Nobody is obligated to love this sport. It's the sports' job to make people want to watch. It's the sports job not to frustrate people by stacking main events on top of dungheaps of an undercard for your $60 fee. It's the sports job to make sure that the biggest possible fight on the immediate horizon doesn't get stalled out for over a year so promoters can milk the fans for a few more dollars. Cripes, and some of you guys accuse us of not caring about anything but money? Instead of crapping on the casual fans all the time, you guys should be thanking your lucky stars they are still around and trying to get them more interested in the sport. Instead, so many people turn into a p*ssing contest about, "who is the most knowledgeable" so they can disparage other people's opinions. That's not a great way to build and strengthen a community. My .02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brizzo Fight Night Developer

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.mrpalinsky

true but you're also advertising it as the most realistic boxing game, it may be but at the same time are you guys just shooting for kind of realistic or realy realistic

No matter what we do, here is what I know...

Some people are going to think it's the most realistic boxing game ever.

Some people are going to think it's really realistic.

Some people are going to think it's kind of realistic.

Some people are going to overlook every thing we add, improve, remove or change... and say it's the worst game EVAR!

The first three groups will have reasonable arguments.

The fourth group won't care what the first three groups think and will belittle them for their opinions and us for our efforts.

[camera shaking and sound effects?]
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/li...8.page#6783496

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA_MikeMahar

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.Meblazin1

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.mrpalinsky

true but you're also advertising it as the most realistic boxing game, it may be but at the same time are you guys just shooting for kind of realistic or realy realistic

There is no competition so he can claim that as much as he wants.
Whether it's true or not is another story......

8)

I've heard this before...and I disagree.
Don King's Prizefighter shipped a little before Fight Night Round 4 and there were many posts...on this forum and others... heralding it's release as an answer to the "pseudo-simulation arcade action" of the Fight Night series and using it to directly compare to Fight Night.

0.02

Quote:

Originally Posted by POETICDRINK2U

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.Brizzo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cem_ea_id.mrpalinsky

true but you're also advertising it as the most realistic boxing game, it may be but at the same time are you guys just shooting for kind of realistic or realy realistic

No matter what we do, here is what I know...

Some people are going to think it's the most realistic boxing game ever.

Some people are going to think it's really realistic.

Some people are going to think it's kind of realistic.

Some people are going to overlook every thing we add, improve, remove or change... and say it's the worst game EVAR!

The first three groups will have reasonable arguments.

The fourth group won't care what the first three groups think and will belittle them for their opinions and us for our efforts.

I wonder where I fall in these examples to you?

I have to admit I expect alot out of a boxing game, especially when I see how other games or sports games are done.
I was always the person who wanted the most enriching and deep experience in a gaming title. I thought this was my personal experience, but from my internet searches I have found quite a few who share my opinion.

I also say the internet(forums) speak volumes for those who buy this and every game. Companies would not be wasting their time advertising on sites. There's a computer in every home today (in my case 3). There's also gaming shows that advertise games and gaming sites.

I say EA should put surveys in their games to see what fans want. It would be a better way than guessing.

* I have noticed alot that when people are around a star or a person who has control of something they really don't express how they feel. I noticed people or fans seem to say what they think the person wants to hear or praise everything they have done.(IMHO)

Comments

# 1 SHAKYR @ Nov 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattofpool78


	I remember an Eddie Chambers radio interview about FN4 or FNC, cant remember. He was very critical, is a gamer & sounded keen to help

Yeah, I was one of the people who did the interview along with Indigo72, and Reignmaka. He said he would stay at EA to give feedback if they asked him. He said it lacked real boxing mechanics or gameplay.
We interviewed a few boxers and trainers who gave their opinions about the game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkfVDNGznW8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkuB_aRnzL8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMike1980


	Whats sad is if boxing is so dead then how come the world will be watching Pacman and Mayweather if the fight goes down???? No UFC event would ever surpass it . That just goes to show you boxing is alive and well. Its just that the fightnight series is very arcadey. They need to ditch the arcade feeling and really truly start developing a simulated boxing experience. As YOU CAN SEE DEVS going with the attempt to try to get casual fans interested with the game with fictional boxers that make the real life boxers look like tools is awful and a slap in the face to the money you spent on licensing all these boxers. If they stick with the sim approach but stick with it I can guarentee you that it would attract many more fans. If the arcade casual approach was more popular with everyone NBA LIVE and NBA JAM would be selling more then 2k. But look . JAM hasnt sold anywhere as near as 2K and LIVE isnt even around anymore. Thats because people respect the realism. Realism alone sells. LOOK at FIFA. Look at NHL. Its so realistic you want to play it cause it really makes me feel like im there. WHEN I PLAY NBA 2K i feel like im really watching a real presentation of the game and that im also in it. FIghtnight just feels like a arcade that . Dont get me wrong ill SUPPORT IT no matter what but they really need to up their game and use the licenses from the boxers and sit down with them to try to get a more realistic presentation. If realism didnt sell then NBA LIVE would be alive and well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattofpool78


	Why not make a simulation but have the option of playing with no anaerobic fatigue,little risk from making mistakes & more punch resistance, if throwing a lot of punches is what casual players care about. A developer of another game with a simulation & arcade option said the arcade mode was a gimmick & players where not learning anything...i guess in FNC they learned spam , which i thought was the main the problem people have with the game. If they made a quality game that required a learning curve & also the option for cheap thrills, people would stick with it because it would allow casual players to progress, not just repeat the gimmicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joefightnight79

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterThanPacman

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMike1980

Realism alone sells. LOOK at FIFA. Look at NHL. Its so realistic you want to play it cause it really makes me feel like im there. WHEN I PLAY NBA 2K i feel like im really watching a real presentation of the game and that im also in it. FIghtnight just feels like a arcade that . Dont get me wrong ill SUPPORT IT no matter what but they really need to up their game and use the licenses from the boxers and sit down with them to try to get a more realistic presentation.

Due to having more extensive licensing, FIFA comfortably outsold PES no matter what, even when PES was a far superior game. By becoming more realistic, FIFA simply took consumers from PES.

The problem is that interest in the sport is a key factor in sales too. Look at NBA 2K11 and 12. Look at how 2K12's sales lag behind 2K11's from weeks 2-9 and then spike after the lockout. If people aren't interested in boxing, or if casual fans can't play with updated rosters, expect a similly poor performance from any fight night srquel.

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales...5345/nba-2k11/

http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales...0999/nba-2k12/

The problem I have is that you don't need gimmicks to sell these games. These fight night games and knockout kings games actually generated interest in the sport for me back then. I got exposed to these boxers because of these games and then I started reading and watching some of their matches all because of these games, and to the Rocky films as well. Lets be honest, the Rocky movies were king growing up. Anyways, EA can still make this game sim, include more current boxers as well and I bet it would generate the same interest in these fighters to others. I never knew who Adamek was until I played Fight Night. Then I saw his fight on VS against Cunningham and I wanted to use him even more in Rnd 4. I didn't know Rocky Marciano, only hearing about him once in the Rocky film. Then I played him FN2004 and I suddenly had interest in reading about him. The games themselves can generate interest in the sport.

# 2 SHAKYR @ Nov 19

This is the topic and link to the above posts.
[Boxers need to be instrumental in Fight Night's Development!]
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/15/7971274.page