I disagree with all three points. 1.) The big thing that turned me off from Backbreaker was the camera angle. How do you expect me to read the cover and still see the backside linebacker blitzing if I have to stare down a WR just to get better accuracy on the ball. The top NFL QB's never stare down a WR but Backbreaker passing makes me feel like Madden 06 passing cone all over again… Jeez
2.) I do believe Madden developers saw this and said lets get this in the game, NOW. Evident is the new direction NHL 11 and NBA Elite 11 (both by EA Canada) is taking. One of the developers even said in an interview that they have a three years vision to make NHL 11's real time physics like that of Backbreaker across all gameplay aspects.
3.) What Madden fans and haters have been yelling for the longest is gameplay updates. I cringe every time I have to sit through a scene where the dumb refs are talking back and forth about a TD Ray Charles (rest in peace) could have detected. Gameplay is what drives better sports games. If the game doesn't play right but it looks pretty it still will be hated among the masses. Give me better gameplay or give me death...Just saying.

You cannot duplicate playing the actual sport in a video game on current systems. That is and always has been the problem with these first person camera angles. You can't recreate peripheral vision. That is why the current camera is the only one that works or makes a game playable. 3d is probubly the only way a game can make they first person thing work.

Not to mention local multiplayer, I do not want to play a friend and have to do it in split screen.

Local multiplayer is definitely the big problem with changing up the perspective in sports games. That's why I've always said the total possible realism of sports games is only at 85-90% of the real thing, and that's under even the most ideal of conditions. Realistically, developers who get to 80-85% will be looked upon as having creative a wonderfully realistic game. Because lets face it, very few people are hitting off of CC Sabathia if a game is completely realistic or reading a defense quite as fast as Peyton Manning can from his perspective, that's just not possible.

@kbomb1upc I see what you are saying, but just to retort a bit for some friendly banter.

Your point on 1 is well taken, but consider the fact you just can't read a defense like a fully prepared Peyton Manning before a game. NFL QB's spend a few hours in the film room and have several trends ID'ed before the ball is snapped. So in that regards, BB's camera does a good job of showing what it's like to play QB, just the game is so bad it can't show what it's like in any form that you could call good or realistic.

On number 2, EA has said many times they don't want the NM Engine in their sports games. Sure, all of them are making moves towards more physics based animation, but the guys in charge have all said that animation driven systems are still the answer. Just I think they are changing their tune somewhat and saying more physics heavy systems driving those animations is a better answer.

As for number 3, I think the fact so many like Backbreaker with what can be best described as average at best multiplayer gameplay and atrocious single player gameplay is testament to how much of a backseat some people are giving gameplay. NFL 2K5 is held in high regard but most of the references back to the game rest in the Presentational elements. The gameplay was in the same league as Madden, just they went about how they did gameplay a bit differently. However, 2K5's presentation was far superior and it still gets high marks. In the same way, Backbreaker's presentation is different (I wouldn't even call it good) and a lot of people are enamored by it. I say in 6 months hardly anyone is playing BB anymore.

It is a shame that people look down on new things.. And in your LEsson #2 you called EA's animations as "continually evolving"?? What animations have been added since madden 08??

So many times I see the word "Realistic" thrown around pertaining to gameplay and I wonder what is the highest level of play that such an individual is drawing usage of this term from. Most will say high school, some will say college, few can say professional. I've tried out as a Free Agent at the Pro level, and from my experiences I can say the it would be impossible for a video game to capture the true speed at which the game moves at that level, thus video games must mimmick what a fan will see vs what an actual player see's.

To put it in perspective, one coach at a camp explained that a fan reacts to 15 sec's of a play and your ability to make the cut depends if you can react in less than a 10th of a sec.

So to #1, an enitre view of the field is not off because 2k5 tried the "In the Helmet" view and I remember how many threads expressed a dislike eventhough the POV was that of the player. As a player, the game moves too fast to capture an entire view, but as a fan, you get to see the entire play because your POV allows that. And that's the beauty of a video game, POV's can vary to fit each fan's perspective. That's why any forced view in a football video game will "ALWAYS" receive negative feedback and I agree that future game "MUST" have user defined camera's to satisfy this point.

#2) I would say, as many probably would agree, that the two are not even close. In my opinion, Backbreaker has brought an "Innovation" of physics to a football video game that has never existed (player's fall because of contact, not stand and dance). Granted, there needs to be some tweaks in this area, but Locomotion vs Natural Motion is a "NO Brainer" if you like football.

Just how Live got caught "slippin" by 2k in basketball because of the same-ol, same-ol. Backbreaker has done the same to Madden. YouTube if filled with vid's of the contact in Bacbreaker, because it's as close as we've seen ever in a video game.

As for #3), It's different for most and has the same affect as the camera POV above. Gameplay wise, it too needs tweaks, but Madden is still introducing programming to help blocking, tackles, WR/DB interactions (hope) etc... while having he feedback of gamers going on how many years? While Backbreaker is in their first year, so I would give them a pass until their 2nd game.

One area you failed to mention, is customization.
They've shown you do not have to shell out tons of money for exclusive rights if there is total customization. As I mentioned in one thread, EA charges $60 for their Pro and $60 for their College game, while Backbreaker cost $50 to possibly have Pro, College, JC or High School in one game by allowing more created teams. That's 4 levels of play for $50 vs 2 levels for $120.

Fix some of the major complaints, allow unlimited created teams, allow user defined camera, improve player models, implement a staduim creator and allow editing player ratings, then the same thing that happen to Live, will happen to Madden.

It's not fair to speak as though the bar has not been raised that high!!!

Why are people still enamored with 2K5? It's not because of the presentation, it's because of the gameplay. In 2K5, you couldn't sprint backwards 30 yards and stil complete a 60-yard pass while falling backwards and throwing across your body right after spinning around. In 2K5, you couldn't have 8 defenders fail to jump on a 5'9" running back only to have him escape and make it into the endzone multiple times in a game. In 2K5, players weren't rocket catching, nano blitzing, skating across the field as if it was covered in ice, juking 3 yards (9 feet) to the side in one move, and linemen spinning around in circles instead of blocking. ALL of those problems were still prevelant in madden 10. That's why people are still enamored with 2K5, it did things right that Madden is still screwing up 6 years later.

It's about the gameply, always has been. Unfortunately, EA has always thought it was about presentation and haven't focused on realistic gameplay.

@King of Kings I agree with your points but people are still enamored with the presentation in 2k5.. they had everything Madden 10 has..

"NaturalMotion football is no better than EA's continually evolving animation based football"

Huh? You can't be serious.

I disagree with all three points too.

1. I kinda see the camera angle like Fight Night's stick controls except for the camera angle doesnt limit accuracy they just limit vision. I would not change the spirit of the angle. I would not offer new angles. There is nothing wrong with remaining uniform if the angle works. The passing camera needs wider vision but it should still be in the eyes of the QB. My solution is too zoom in and make it close to firstperson. I would also fix the pass blocking, add face buttons to select receivers, and speed up the stick throwing. The camera is fine when running. On defense, and it they ever add catching I would add head tracking so you can see the ball in the air. So I say fix it don't just add a bunch of new cams.

2. The physics in that game are the main reason the running game is the best I ever seen. It also makes the game feel fair and alive beyond anything I felt in another football game. You will never clip through the ball, or see some unreal tackle breaking. Everything has a base. When you make a big play it feels more authentic.

3. Gameplay keeps me coming back. CH 2k8 is IMO the best sports game of this gen because of gameplay. Backbreaker is a buy because the running game is great and the passing game is exiting. Take away those two factors and they are no buys.

@thissiteisbiased

yes it is. I have played football at the high school and at a few college camps. (not training camp, scouting camps)

This game is below average.

what ever happened to virtual reality. give me some goggles and let me physically turn left and right to view the opposing defense. I think this is the possibility with this new camera angle.
its all about furthering innovation.

But in the meantime I think true sim sports is being able to play a game from a spectators point of view, not the athletes point of view. This is especially true for team based sports. The POV may work for single player sports, tennis, boxing, golf.

Presentation is huge. if all sports games were true POV, youd have to take away commentary, etc. imagine a sports game without any play by play. the game would all of a sudden be unplayable for most gamers.

MMChris, re: your second point, just because EA's head honchos have put some ink down defending animations doesn't mean they actually feel this way. I remember Sony execs telling us that rumble was old technology and they were going to create something better. Well, they didn't. They swallowed their pride and ponied up the dough. EA will either built their own physics based system, buy it from a competitor or buy NM's. Animations are the prime source of frustration with EA's game. They are akin to newspapers.

I think Backbreaker really did good on some gameplay forms. Nautral Motion engine is awesome, and advanced which is why EA dosen't want to pay for it LOL. 2 I feel bad for the local players yes split screen sucks, maybe they should add another camera angle for local only. People just don't like change unless it's change with the same mediocre game. If bb is below average, Madden isn't even on the radar. It's just the only choice right now.