RaychelSnr's Blog
It is no secret a huge mess of hardcore gamers heavily dislike Madden these days. As I pointed out in my half of the 'is Madden successful this generation' debate with Christian McLeod, Madden has played it pretty safe overall this generation, which has led to it falling behind some of it's peers in our genre.
When the game has tried to innovate and add new depths to its gameplay the features have failed to attract fans approval and thus, most have been toned down or taken completely out of the game. It is no surprise then, that the experimentation has largely been toned down as well, as the Madden team has redoubled their efforts to focus on the basic aspects of the gameplay which has largely led to big improvements in many areas.
However, the moves the past two years have yet to be enough to quell the dissension -- mainly because there are still so many problems which haven't been addressed. So what does Madden need to do? Here are five things I think could go a long way towards alleviating the negativity.
- Take the AI to the next level. There are still some things which happen in Madden which would never happen on a real football field. A lot of it has to do with players not playing to their assignments like real football players would. Players don't react to what's going on around them like they should -- and in football it is not easy to mask those kind of problems. EA needs to redouble on how the defense reacts to what's going on and they also need to keep improving the play in the trenches. This year's game was better in that regard but more improvement is definitely needed. And let's just be honest, when it comes to playing the computer you can expect nothing short of predictability a lot of times. Playcalling seems to be the thorn in the Madden's team side. The game just needs to feel more advanced in how players react.
- Stick to the Modes which are going to work. There have been several jaunts off the deep end in terms of modes for the game. Lots of bad ideas mixed with poorly executed ones have marred the games progress overall. The breadwinners for Madden into the future will be Franchise, Online Franchise, an Online Competition mode that isn't Ultimate Team that allows gamers to just pick up and play the game with a purpose. Superstar mode is something which I don't know is going to work all that well with Football as it is probably the least individual based sport in America. The concentration of fans is on the team, the franchise, and the aura around that. Madden needs to capture that magic and bring it home to roost.
- The game needs a new presentation. Madden has been operating under the same formula for over a decade now in terms of its presentation. There have been shifts along the way, but you can see where the progression has been logical and steady -- but there haven't been any major shakeups. The bigger issue with Madden is that its Broadcast Presentation is really poorly executed. The game really went off the deep end for a few years starting with Madden NFL 06 on next-gen consoles -- and it is just now starting to get to a point where the in-game presentation is acceptable again. And let's be honest, most NFL fans experience a majority of games via the TV. If you want a game to 'feel' more realistic, the key isn't putting the players on the field, but make it seem like they are recreating a broadcast. How Madden cuts to the crowd and to the benches and whatnot are nothing short of amateur and need a complete overhaul by someone who produces NFL games for TV. The graphical stat overlays and displays are lacking and the commentary needs serious depth as well.
- "Everything on Sunday?" Where are the.... There is so much still lacking from the in-game experience for Madden that are present each Sunday. Other games handle the finer aspects of their sport much better than Madden, which is where a lot of the gap comes from. For example, penalties are still not handled properly at all. Another lingering problem is that you don't see the AI adjusting to your play style all that effectively (see point #1). EA could easily set up a much more effective Coaching advice tool which could double as your coordinators letting you know how the other team is reacting to your moves and whatnot. As with all good game design, such a feature would be optional -- but you can make a game deep so long as you hold the users hand through the initial learning stages.
- Most of all -- player interactions need to be improved a lot still. The biggest problem with Madden is that player to player interaction, even when the ball is snapped, feel generic. There is nothing really all that dynamic about it still, since you don't see players jockeying for position or pushing and shoving after a play. Using good broadcast angles, you could easily show players jawing a bit and whatnot. I'm sure the NFL has a hand in some of this, wanting to keep the sport's reputation clean -- but there are creative ways to show interactions between players that make the game feel more alive. It is like both teams aren't allowed to really react to one another after a play and they just quietly shuffle back to a huddle. That's not how it happens in the NFL, and that's one very huge reason why the game doesn't feel right to many users. Make the player interactions much more realistic before, during, and after plays and you'll see a lot of people's problem with Madden feeling stale or old go away pretty quickly.
So there is my list of five things. Now what do you think? Other than saying give up the exclusive license (yeah yeah yeah, we know that's what you think) what are some things Madden Developers could do to drastically improve the game in your eyes? Sound off!
# 17
shadthedad @ Feb 9
@Ipman
Right on! If they can fix that and redo their presentation, the game will feel better.
Also, we need to have better feet to ground interaction. You should be able to sense when you cut, power through a hole, or spin. Madden currently feels or moves as if, it's programmer to do move from the head down vs the ground up. EA should invest some resources into fixing this issue.
But ultimately, I think Madden should work on perfecting some of the ideas from the past. I loved the addition of Pro-tak and want to see it taken to the next level and believe the Gameplan feature has the ability to revolutionize the series in so many ways. Clean up the little things Ian and rehaul the offensive line/defensive line interaction and you will have a solid platform to build upon for years to come.
Right on! If they can fix that and redo their presentation, the game will feel better.
Also, we need to have better feet to ground interaction. You should be able to sense when you cut, power through a hole, or spin. Madden currently feels or moves as if, it's programmer to do move from the head down vs the ground up. EA should invest some resources into fixing this issue.
But ultimately, I think Madden should work on perfecting some of the ideas from the past. I loved the addition of Pro-tak and want to see it taken to the next level and believe the Gameplan feature has the ability to revolutionize the series in so many ways. Clean up the little things Ian and rehaul the offensive line/defensive line interaction and you will have a solid platform to build upon for years to come.
# 18
dannyr326 @ Feb 9
Tackling, Presentation, and CB/WR Interaction should be a priority. Just go take a look at the way cornerbacks play man-to-man defense and you will see that it is completely broken.
In certain situations the corner will seem as if he already knows exactly what route the receiver is goin to run, (usually running with the WR despite facing in the complete opposite direction.
Doesn't anybody notice this??
In certain situations the corner will seem as if he already knows exactly what route the receiver is goin to run, (usually running with the WR despite facing in the complete opposite direction.
Doesn't anybody notice this??
# 19
wallofhate @ Feb 10
I say also where is the "by any means necessary" aspect that football players exude every sunday? Instead of players either snapping around instantly when the ball get to the reciever and cornerback have them looking for the ball and slow down and find space to make the catch. When players are running toward the the endzone have them contort their body to reach the ball out and have guys stretch the ball across it. Have them get small in the hole to try to get that needed short yardage first down.
# 20
videlsports @ Feb 10
1). grab euphoria engine ( tone done some tackles for sake of NFL contract)
2.improve recevier/ db interaction. ( allow route running to actually work)
3. 2k should make the game
4. release exclusive contract..
2.improve recevier/ db interaction. ( allow route running to actually work)
3. 2k should make the game
4. release exclusive contract..
# 21
RUFFNREADY @ Feb 10
MMCHRIS, 1 thru 5 are bang on, and then some.
IMO, they need a whole new gaming engine.
hey; what happened to PHIL FRAZIER...? did they can him; or did Ian C. just get promoted?
IMO, they need a whole new gaming engine.
hey; what happened to PHIL FRAZIER...? did they can him; or did Ian C. just get promoted?
# 23
johnprestonevans @ Feb 10
Great post. This is the kind of constructive criticism that EA needs to listen to and implement. Lets face it, the same old same old isn't cutting it anymore. Little tweaks and bug fixes are not acceptable for a huge game like Madden. I especially liked what you said in points #3 and #4. I see the term "broadcast" littered throughout this post and that is exactly the feeling that is missing from Madden. I do not feel immersed in the spectacle of the NFL like I do with the NBA when playing 2K11 or the MLB when playing The Show. The camera angles options are not authentic. The edits are bush league. The commentary is still horrible even with the immortal Gus Johnson. Why? Because EA hasn't fixed the route problems. Instead of getting a new announcer to spew excitable random dialogue, they should have gone back and rebooted the commentary engine. Just listen to how NBA2K11 sounds and you'll see that capturing a realistic telecast quality IS attainable in today's sports games.
"Everything you see on Sunday" should be stapled to the foreheads of every developer at Tiburon. I wish the team would focus on bringing that broadcast authenticity to Madden instead of looking for marketable back-of-the-box features that dont amount to much. How we SEE the game is just as important to how we PLAY the game. This is what the top sports games are doing these days.
Fix the Extra Point to show and talk about around the league highlights. Make it dynamic. Get rid of the amateur looking intro videos that are exactly the same every week. Im sorry, but do what 2K5 did with Berman - but with today's graphics. How many times do we have to say this? If EA really wants to put out a stellar NFL game they need to pay attention to the details AND fix the legacy issues that continue to hinder the gameplay experience.
"Everything you see on Sunday" should be stapled to the foreheads of every developer at Tiburon. I wish the team would focus on bringing that broadcast authenticity to Madden instead of looking for marketable back-of-the-box features that dont amount to much. How we SEE the game is just as important to how we PLAY the game. This is what the top sports games are doing these days.
Fix the Extra Point to show and talk about around the league highlights. Make it dynamic. Get rid of the amateur looking intro videos that are exactly the same every week. Im sorry, but do what 2K5 did with Berman - but with today's graphics. How many times do we have to say this? If EA really wants to put out a stellar NFL game they need to pay attention to the details AND fix the legacy issues that continue to hinder the gameplay experience.
# 24
TDKing @ Feb 10
If they want to please me and want me to buy 12 they are going to have to correct the half azzed misleading lie they call an Online Franchise Mode
# 25
tpaterniti @ Feb 10
RE: Playcalling seems to be the thorn in the Madden's team side. The game just needs to feel more advanced in how players react.
Watching a Nova on Watson's computer learning last night combined with my experience with 2K's VIP system gave me an interesting idea. Madden should already have an adaptative system that scales to the ability of the gamer (if I recall correctly). How about creating VIPs for online players and having the option to turn on Online CPU Playstyle.The CPU would be fed tons of data about the plays and tendencies each online player at a given level uses and could start presenting those personas to the gamer. I know on 2K that while the VIP system doesn't exactly mimic the person it belongs to, it tends to use the same plays they use, make the same types of audibles with the same frequency, make the same hot routes and line protection adjustments, and the CPU even moves players around mimicking the person whose VIP it is. I have seen it with my own eyes, and this is a game made now 3 years ago!
As for adapting, this should be a simple matter of programming and there is really no excuse for it to not be in there already. The simulation already has some sort of engine for picking plays. I am sure situation, time of the game, down and distance, etc. factors in. It should be a simple matter to add an auto adjust that takes an average yards per play (possibly against a reasonable norm, possibly the norm changes based on a pre-picked offensive strategy i.e. grind it out requires fewer ypc on the ground to equate to "success" in the computer's mind, vertical passing game requires more yards per pass play, West Coast Offense requires much less, etc.). In fact this is so simple to do that probably a computer programming student in college could set it up.
I personally doubt Madden will do anything like this however, because they seem 100% geared towards the bottom line, which is essentially what is the least amount of work and innovation we can put into the game so that it still sells. Obviously you have to appear to add new features and to be improving the game or people will stop buying it, so the question for them seems to become, what features can we add that will take the least amount of time and risk to implement while providing as much hype as possible and also keeping sales where they are? I won't go on about competition, but this is one reason why it is a good thing. Right now there is no reason for Madden to risk anything. They have their somewhat steady sales numbers (if you adjust for the down economy), so why would they change anything major when they know that a few minor changes and a roster update will keep the old faithfuls coming back year after year?
Watching a Nova on Watson's computer learning last night combined with my experience with 2K's VIP system gave me an interesting idea. Madden should already have an adaptative system that scales to the ability of the gamer (if I recall correctly). How about creating VIPs for online players and having the option to turn on Online CPU Playstyle.The CPU would be fed tons of data about the plays and tendencies each online player at a given level uses and could start presenting those personas to the gamer. I know on 2K that while the VIP system doesn't exactly mimic the person it belongs to, it tends to use the same plays they use, make the same types of audibles with the same frequency, make the same hot routes and line protection adjustments, and the CPU even moves players around mimicking the person whose VIP it is. I have seen it with my own eyes, and this is a game made now 3 years ago!
As for adapting, this should be a simple matter of programming and there is really no excuse for it to not be in there already. The simulation already has some sort of engine for picking plays. I am sure situation, time of the game, down and distance, etc. factors in. It should be a simple matter to add an auto adjust that takes an average yards per play (possibly against a reasonable norm, possibly the norm changes based on a pre-picked offensive strategy i.e. grind it out requires fewer ypc on the ground to equate to "success" in the computer's mind, vertical passing game requires more yards per pass play, West Coast Offense requires much less, etc.). In fact this is so simple to do that probably a computer programming student in college could set it up.
I personally doubt Madden will do anything like this however, because they seem 100% geared towards the bottom line, which is essentially what is the least amount of work and innovation we can put into the game so that it still sells. Obviously you have to appear to add new features and to be improving the game or people will stop buying it, so the question for them seems to become, what features can we add that will take the least amount of time and risk to implement while providing as much hype as possible and also keeping sales where they are? I won't go on about competition, but this is one reason why it is a good thing. Right now there is no reason for Madden to risk anything. They have their somewhat steady sales numbers (if you adjust for the down economy), so why would they change anything major when they know that a few minor changes and a roster update will keep the old faithfuls coming back year after year?
# 26
CreatineKasey @ Feb 10
#5 is money - Player to player interactions are the key to immersing us IMO.
# 27
johnprestonevans @ Feb 11
Smoke, I respect your opinion and am glad that you still love Madden as much as you ever did. I will agree that Madden used to be THE game to beat in the sports genre. Where was NBA2K and The Show back then? I dont know, but does that really matter now? All I care about is what we are getting today and tomorrow. You may think The Show is boring, and you are totally justified in your opinion. It's a baseball game and I know a lot of folks just don't appreciate that sport because it is very slow in comparison to others. However, the level of quality (graphics, sound, presentation) in that game is lightyears ahead of what EA has been doing with the NFL license. Im not an EA Sports *****. I have enjoyed Fifa and NHL and even Madden to some extent in recent years. My beef is that I want to see Madden return to its Hall of Fame form and to do so will require a lot of work. I'm frustrated that EA Tiburon continues to add and subtract insignificant features to market their game as an evolution of the series. Unfortunately this flip and flop focus has prohibited the franchise from achieving its potential. "Everything You See on Sunday" was a beautiful mantra that now seems like just talk to me. They have not put together a definitive broadcast presentation like the best sports game do. Why are we still thinking about a game that is almost 7 years old? (I dont wanna say it again). I'm not a 2K fanboy. I just know quality when i see it.
Yes Madden has improved since 06. I really liked the leap the series took from 09 to 10 - stripping things down and starting to rebuild. Unfortunately last year did not continue that trend. It's still early in EA's sharing of news on Madden 12, but from what little footage I have seen, it looks very much the same. I hope im wrong. I want Madden to be amazing. I just hate playing other great sports games and asking myself - Why doesn't Madden do this?
Yes Madden has improved since 06. I really liked the leap the series took from 09 to 10 - stripping things down and starting to rebuild. Unfortunately last year did not continue that trend. It's still early in EA's sharing of news on Madden 12, but from what little footage I have seen, it looks very much the same. I hope im wrong. I want Madden to be amazing. I just hate playing other great sports games and asking myself - Why doesn't Madden do this?
# 28
K the Q @ Feb 11
I think the biggest thing for Madden next year is the quality of their online franchise. I needs to at least compete with NCAA which is at least two years ahead of them IMHO.
# 29
notoriouzwun @ Feb 11
I'd like to focus more on Game Modes...FOr me a true club OTP/Be A Pro like Hockey, FIFA, and Live would have me hooked on Madden for awhile the bare bones OTP they released wasnt bad but it didt keep me interested...I like Hockey, Im not a huge fan and I could only name a handful of players from hockey before fifa..I think it would bring in a different set of fans to American Football with a Club feature. Many of my friends on my club didn't know hockey at all until NHL 09 or Soccer until FiFa 10. To be able to have a 5 on 5 exp min 2 players on A club OTP with a season would be an amazing feature imo.
Online Franchise is another mode. Much like others have said..if it were complete franchise mode online it would be much better. I enjoy the online dynasty of NCAA I would like to see that improved in MAdden.
Online Franchise is another mode. Much like others have said..if it were complete franchise mode online it would be much better. I enjoy the online dynasty of NCAA I would like to see that improved in MAdden.
# 30
mwjr @ Feb 11
#2 is the biggest one for me, specifically the offline franchise mode. The franchise mode has been ignored since the new generation came to be. The last Madden I bought was 09, and I won't buy another one until dramatic franchise improvements are made.
That's just my 2 cents...
That's just my 2 cents...
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