RaychelSnr's Blog
Today, the OS Staff took place in a staff roundtable discussing the viability of another NCAA Football game in today's marketplace. For once, we were all largely on the same page and in agreement that it wasn't very likely.
I think this is a topic that deserves a bit more time and length though to truly understand and appreciate what developers have to do these days to make a quality sports title, especially from scratch. The level of depth and detail that must be present from the get go is just immese and if that's not present, the game has to rely upon some sort of a marketing twist in order to catch gamer's interest (example: Backbreaker).
As it is, the cost of entry into the sports game simulation market grows higher by the year, and if companies want to have a slice of the pie -- their time is starting to run short. Many gamers clamor for the days of old when there were five NFL games and six MLB games on the market -- but those were also days when creating quality sports games was a relatively inexpensive ordeal.
The level of detail and realism was far less even just seven years ago compared to today. For the most part, gamers were more forgiving if small details were a little off in previous generations because they quite frankly couldn't care less. Fast forward to today, and if the railing is the wrong color in Fenway Park, developers are called out on the miscue. Fast forward five years from now when a new generation of consoles is set to hit the market with even more powerful hardware and think about the level of detail that will need to be present to satisfy sports gamers.
This is a strange catch-22, and perhaps it is one of the reasons why I think companies like EA are embracing simple gaming while limiting big box titles -- in EA's case the number of titles being released in stores is roughly half of what it was just a couple of years ago. You have room for error and experimentation when the screen gets smaller, and you also make much nicer profits down there too.
As for big budget titles, they're a tough sell. Almost by necessity, we've seen the number of big titles in our genre almost cut in half in the last seven years. This is not a mistake. Couple in license fees, the level of detail needed, the yearly release cycle, and the power of the competition and it makes it a tough sell for any company to consider making a sports game who isn't already making one. Unfortunately for us, sports games will continue to be a tough sell in corporate board rooms and in many cases, we'll continue to see attrition in the sheer number of titles released each year.
That's the reality facing sports gaming today, and it is one that was born out of necessity more than greed.
# 2
jyoung @ Jan 27
Here is my theory:
Developers circa 2005 had basically maxed out the graphics/animations/physics capacity of their games.
This allowed developers to focus more on features, and is probably why the sports games towards the end of the PS2/Xbox era were so feature rich.
Developers on the current consoles spend so much time on the graphics/animations/physics part of the game that features end up being an afterthought.
That is why I think we are still missing so many features on the current consoles that we grew accustomed to in the PS2/Xbox days.
Developers circa 2005 had basically maxed out the graphics/animations/physics capacity of their games.
This allowed developers to focus more on features, and is probably why the sports games towards the end of the PS2/Xbox era were so feature rich.
Developers on the current consoles spend so much time on the graphics/animations/physics part of the game that features end up being an afterthought.
That is why I think we are still missing so many features on the current consoles that we grew accustomed to in the PS2/Xbox days.
# 3
videlsports @ Jan 27
You got some interesting points there inn this blog. I truelly hope more developers can step up and Companies can slightly cheapen the Liscence fee's for developers to take a chance. I for one appericiated Backbreaker, as another option aside from madden. IMO EA has some things right about their games but as the cash came in, they got lazy and more greedy. Enter Sega Sports which when I saw this on Dream cast From my family member, who had 2k football, I immediatly took my Ps2, all games, back to game stop to get a dream cast. I was captivated, by sega sports. The replays, the designs, the graphics, and most of all gameplay and commentary. But then at least we had a choice. Now Scince EA + NFL started the exclusive sports contracts, it has been down hill for the Video game sports market. @ the time NFL 2k5 was the best football game, and could not wait for 2k6 which did not happen , because the NFL and Ea's agreement. I am aware that the NFL approacehed 2k sports too, but they turned it down. Then Ea Locked the comp out.. but did not deliver.. from 2006-until now it had a stale improvement because it was the only game in town. Now I hope to return to the days of choice. AND I hope 2k and Ea can make all games and let the best company win. ( I mean Madden was out in 89 without stiff comp until 2k honestly. College and Pro Sports for ALL.
# 4
1WEiRDguy @ Jan 27
Man, all of you raise some very interesting points...i think my opinion is related so we'll just see how it works out...
I think somewhere along the line, companies lost sight of who their target audience was. I like to think of myself as the hardcore casual gamer. I play just enough to catch little things that tick me off, but at the same time, im not drenched in one game for too long that I lose sight that its still a video game.
In other words, in the time frame of 04-05, i think the majority of people would agree that you actually had seperate sim and arcade titles. For example, if you wanted sim, you went more towards the Live/2k series...if you wanted arcade, you went to the NBA Street series (which i pray they give this series the reboot it deserves)...Nowadays, companies i think struggle with trying to please everyone as opposed to the two different groups. So while a game may have sim like features, it will still suffer to some degree b/c the game is intended for anyone to be able to pick up and play. So certain things like the Owner/Franchise Mode in madden has been pretty much non-existent b/c the avg 15 yr old just wants to play with his favorite player and not dive into the day to day operations of running a franchise...
I think once companies realize that they will NOT please everyone, they can decide on which direction they want to go, then proceed from there.
I think somewhere along the line, companies lost sight of who their target audience was. I like to think of myself as the hardcore casual gamer. I play just enough to catch little things that tick me off, but at the same time, im not drenched in one game for too long that I lose sight that its still a video game.
In other words, in the time frame of 04-05, i think the majority of people would agree that you actually had seperate sim and arcade titles. For example, if you wanted sim, you went more towards the Live/2k series...if you wanted arcade, you went to the NBA Street series (which i pray they give this series the reboot it deserves)...Nowadays, companies i think struggle with trying to please everyone as opposed to the two different groups. So while a game may have sim like features, it will still suffer to some degree b/c the game is intended for anyone to be able to pick up and play. So certain things like the Owner/Franchise Mode in madden has been pretty much non-existent b/c the avg 15 yr old just wants to play with his favorite player and not dive into the day to day operations of running a franchise...
I think once companies realize that they will NOT please everyone, they can decide on which direction they want to go, then proceed from there.
# 5
Dazraz @ Jan 27
I think up until the current generation developers could only ever deliver a certain standard due to the limitations of the consoles. With the current generation of consoles such restrictions no longer exist. The limits imposed on developers stem not from technology but from costs.
Long gone are the days where a couple of computer whizz kids could write the code to a game all on there own. Now the credit list for a game reads like that of a blockbuster movie. All those people need to be paid. Then we have the escalating cost of the licenses to consider. No sports game can expect to sell without the signing of the official license or licenses. The initial outlay for a company to invest in a sports title is massive as is the associated risk.
To make things even more daunting from a developers perspective are the current fall in software sales in general & the higher than ever expectations of the consumer.
Sport games are also limited by the sport that they are trying to recreate. Fans of the sport will want the most accurate of representations but if developers want to try & attract new sales then how do they make their game more attractive to casual gamers without alienating the fanatical player. EA have tried implementing ideas such as Gameflow to open up the game to a wider audience in Madden which, although a sound idea, was one which received a mixed reception.
The one area where developers can benefit today is via forums such as here at OS. Developers can read first hand what issues the consumer has with the game & address any common issues in subsequent patches/versions.
As things stand we are probably going to have to be content with just 1 game per franchise & then possibly not even that. We no longer have an NCAA Basketball title & with the ongoing issues with lawsuits for EA you wonder how much longer we will have a college football game.
Long gone are the days where a couple of computer whizz kids could write the code to a game all on there own. Now the credit list for a game reads like that of a blockbuster movie. All those people need to be paid. Then we have the escalating cost of the licenses to consider. No sports game can expect to sell without the signing of the official license or licenses. The initial outlay for a company to invest in a sports title is massive as is the associated risk.
To make things even more daunting from a developers perspective are the current fall in software sales in general & the higher than ever expectations of the consumer.
Sport games are also limited by the sport that they are trying to recreate. Fans of the sport will want the most accurate of representations but if developers want to try & attract new sales then how do they make their game more attractive to casual gamers without alienating the fanatical player. EA have tried implementing ideas such as Gameflow to open up the game to a wider audience in Madden which, although a sound idea, was one which received a mixed reception.
The one area where developers can benefit today is via forums such as here at OS. Developers can read first hand what issues the consumer has with the game & address any common issues in subsequent patches/versions.
As things stand we are probably going to have to be content with just 1 game per franchise & then possibly not even that. We no longer have an NCAA Basketball title & with the ongoing issues with lawsuits for EA you wonder how much longer we will have a college football game.
# 6
stlstudios189 @ Jan 27
I really am enjoying games again. NBA 2k11, NHL 11, NCAA 11, and Madden 11 were all steller.
# 7
shadthedad @ Jan 27
In the case of Madden you have to factor in that it's built from the ground up on Xbox 360. If it was built from the ground up on PS3, the blu-Ray disc would allow for more programming space. In regards to Madden 2012 being the best Madden ever.......All signs are pointing in that direction.
# 8
Uncle Stumpy @ Jan 28
I'm agreeing with pretty much everything said here. Not much to add. And like weeman said about features...they had topped out graphically so they were encouraged to do add more features. I'm sure we'll see the same thing in the next couple of years with this gen.
Honestly I think the big reason why I don't enjoy sports games as much as i used to is because, quite simply, I've grown up. I don't have that kid like ability to totally feel like I am my created player, or I am the GM of my franchise, and because of this I don't enjoy the games as much. I still love them, but I'm not nearly in awe as I was a kid. Don't get me wrong, the games are amazing, but I really feel less immersed in the experience as in my younger days.
Honestly I think the big reason why I don't enjoy sports games as much as i used to is because, quite simply, I've grown up. I don't have that kid like ability to totally feel like I am my created player, or I am the GM of my franchise, and because of this I don't enjoy the games as much. I still love them, but I'm not nearly in awe as I was a kid. Don't get me wrong, the games are amazing, but I really feel less immersed in the experience as in my younger days.
# 9
Nutzilla13 @ Jan 28
But these developers are not starting from scratch every year. To make NCAA 12, they can use the same stadium and player models as the previous year.
# 10
sithlord06 @ Jan 28
I think companies will go away from exclusive license deals, its too expensive to pay for a license and develop a game that meets the bar of expectations. Its easier if its an open market and you can just concentrate on mass production. The consumers want and deserve better NFL and College basketball videogaming right now, its a market being under served by far.
# 11
khaliib @ Jan 28
"...the cost of entry into the sports game simulation market grows higher by the year, and if companies want to have a slice of the pie -- their time is starting to run short"
This would be the one statement I would say is incorrect. The one thing folks don't see what Backbreaker did, was that another football game can be created without a Brand attached to it, and there be no legal issues surrounding the title.
Most of the cost pertaining to sports games today is driven by the use of Major Brands (athlete/organization) not the cost of building the game itself.
Again, I believe Backbreaker opened up the next phase of Sports Game Developement. That is, give gamers the ability to "Total Customize the Skins" of the game (ie uniforms,stadiums,logos) and they will produce the Brands (NFL/NCAA/NBA/NFL etc...) without cost to the developer. Even Ian has sought the community thoughts on "One Aspect" of Total Customization for Madden. Look at NBA 2k11 and what total customization is doing for that game. I still say this feature is inclusive today because of Finn's 2k editor. Granted, this customization deals with gameplay aspects of the the game, but it will shift to the other side of game developing, Marketing with Brand Names (ie Backbreaker).
Cost are not increasing, but the current financial atmosphere is driving Game Developers to be creative dealing with marketing with/without Brands, which again is the main driver of cost to produce Sports Games today.
An evolutionary changing of guard is about to happen in Sports Video Games. Some developer is going to take Sports Gaming to the next level (Desktops PC--> Laptops--> iPhone/Smart Phones).
Video Games are not going away anytime soon. Just the methods that have become the norm to sell them.
The reality is that a Sports Game that the gaming world never expected is about to drop and "Tear The Roof Off". Get ready!!!
This would be the one statement I would say is incorrect. The one thing folks don't see what Backbreaker did, was that another football game can be created without a Brand attached to it, and there be no legal issues surrounding the title.
Most of the cost pertaining to sports games today is driven by the use of Major Brands (athlete/organization) not the cost of building the game itself.
Again, I believe Backbreaker opened up the next phase of Sports Game Developement. That is, give gamers the ability to "Total Customize the Skins" of the game (ie uniforms,stadiums,logos) and they will produce the Brands (NFL/NCAA/NBA/NFL etc...) without cost to the developer. Even Ian has sought the community thoughts on "One Aspect" of Total Customization for Madden. Look at NBA 2k11 and what total customization is doing for that game. I still say this feature is inclusive today because of Finn's 2k editor. Granted, this customization deals with gameplay aspects of the the game, but it will shift to the other side of game developing, Marketing with Brand Names (ie Backbreaker).
Cost are not increasing, but the current financial atmosphere is driving Game Developers to be creative dealing with marketing with/without Brands, which again is the main driver of cost to produce Sports Games today.
An evolutionary changing of guard is about to happen in Sports Video Games. Some developer is going to take Sports Gaming to the next level (Desktops PC--> Laptops--> iPhone/Smart Phones).
Video Games are not going away anytime soon. Just the methods that have become the norm to sell them.
The reality is that a Sports Game that the gaming world never expected is about to drop and "Tear The Roof Off". Get ready!!!
RaychelSnr
57
RaychelSnr's Blog Categories
RaychelSnr's Xbox 360 Gamercard
RaychelSnr's PSN Gamercard
More
RaychelSnr's Friends
Recent Visitors
The last 10 visitor(s) to this Arena were:
RaychelSnr's Arena has had 2,524,740 visits
- Albrillo
- beedubyuh
- Icetime2121
- kon56la
- Lewisf33
- OldHossRadbourn
- Ralnakor
- ryderino
- sl4yer94
- studbucket
RaychelSnr's Arena has had 2,524,740 visits
I agree with almost everything in this blog. The above struck me especially. I think there are at least a couple reasons why gamers are so much more picky today than they were even a few years ago.
1) License agreements and exclusive deals. People dont like not having choices. So if you are going to limit our choices, you better get your stuff right. I am looking at you Madden and MLB 2k.
2) We know what these consoles are capable of AND the console distributor also knows what the console is capable of. That is how they set the price point, based on the idea that you should be able to maximize your gaming experience. Unfortunantly, alot of devs can not deliever a game that truly untilizes all the "UMMPH" of the next gen console. Examples of those that have are SDS and Naughty Dog for PS3. Those that havent, again EA.
3) In that 7 year stretch you talked about, there have been some genere changing sports games. NFL 2k5, MVP 2005, College Hoops 2k8. These are games that many gamers still talk about or play today. These games raised the bar and thus gamer's expectations.
4) Finally, and take this the best way possible because OS is a great place for gamers, however, forums strictly devoted to sports gaming have to shoulder some of the blame for making gamers expect more. On any given day you can come here and read dissenting opinons on any sports game you like. You come here, read what someone else has to say and if you are like me, and assume that others know more about gaming than I do, you say "hmm they may have a point." 7 years ago, you may have gone and bought Madden on release day and not given it a second thought. Now you may be worried someone will call you a "fanboy" (The stupidest gamer word ever by the way) if people on the forums find out you have it, or any other game that is not approved of by the masses on a paticular forum or blog.
Just my two pennies worth.