RE: NBA 2K11's Simulation Gamestyle is a Fraud (Part 2) - Mos1ted's Blog

Mos1ted's Blog

RE: NBA 2K11's Simulation Gamestyle is a Fraud (Part 2)

Posted on October 13, 2010 at 02:31 PM.

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DISCLAIMER: These following views, observations, and opinions are not a result of me not being good at the game. I have owned 16 (count 'em 16) basketball titles from the 2K lineup starting with NBA 2K2, and every NBA and College Hoops game they have released ever since. These are just parts of the game that I felt were tuned to the disadvantage for the user in certain instances to make the game more of a challenge. While I appreciate a challenging game, I dislike it when the game is manipulated in such a way that CPU players are able to do things that the user can't, or the user is made to do certain actions that he has no control over.

As members of OS, we all are here for the same reasons: We love sports, we love video games, and we want our (sports) video games to look and play like the real thing. I've been pretty critical of NBA 2K11 since its release, but my criticism isn't because I don't like the game. In fact, the game has yet to leave my console since I purchased it on release day. My criticism for this game lies mainly with the simulation setting. Many of you may ask the question, why do you care? It's not like the game is forcing you to play on that setting. And you're right, the simulation setting is merely an option and I can choose not to play it. But it's like witnessing a horrific car accident, as bad as it looks, you just can't look away. Contrary to popular belief, I love the game looks, feels, and plays on the simulation setting. I just don't like some of the cheapness that I'm witnessing when playing it.

For Part 2 of my first blog on this subject, I want to delve deeper into other aspects of the game when using this setting and why I feel simulation is not the way to go if you're looking for realism.

Stickz24 and I had some very spirited and interested debates on my last blog. Best of all, our debates were very respectful, and I could see that mutual respect was there as we shared our differences. It feels good when you're able to discuss disagreements with someone and it not resort to anyone getting angry or doing any name calling. With that being said Stickz24, I respectfully disagree with your points further LOL. Moving on...

PASSING

The first area I wanted to analyze on the Simulation setting was passing. This is probably the most talked about aspect of the game on these forums. Users have made videos to help others understand the passing game better. While those videos are very much appreciated, it doesn't look into what the main cause for concern is in the game's passing system on Simulation. Were gamers really that bad at passing the ball, or is there another issue at fault? To test this theory, I decided to create a custom team filled with the best passers of the game. To create this team, I looked through the rosters and picked 3 players at each position who had the best passer ratings in the game. This was my roster:

DISCLAIMER: This roster was made using the default rosters in the game

(Offensive Awareness Ratings and Passing Ratings in parenthesis)

PG: Chris Paul (OAWR:97, PASS:98), Deron Williams (OAWR: 96, PASS: 95), Steve Nash (OAWR: 99, PASS: 98)

SG: Dwyane Wade (OAWR: 99, PASS:82), Stephen Jackson (OAWR: 89, PASS: 79), Monta Ellis (OAWR: 92/ PASS: 79)

SF: Lebron James (OAWR: 99, PASS: 87), Andre Iguodala (OAWR: 88, PASS: 77), Luke Walton (OAWR: 58, PASS: 75)

PF: Josh Smith (OAWR: 79, PASS: 67) , Lamar Odom (OAWR: 76, PASS: 57), Boris Diaw (OAWR: 70, PASS: 62)

C: Brad Miller (OAWR: 69, PASS: 60) , Ronny Turiaf (OAWR: 28, PASS: 61) Fabricio Oberto (OAWR: 49, PASS: 56)

* The Team's average passing rating was 75.533 (truncated), and the average offensive awareness rating was 79.2.

* The game auto adjusted the lineups and this was the starting lineup: Paul, Wade, James, Odom, Smith

* I played a 12 minute quarter on Superstar/Sim against the Minnesota Timberwolves - the lowest defensive rated team in the game.

From the opening possession, I began to notice immediately how flawed the passing system is on this setting. Chris Paul's passes, for example, didn't have a lot of zip on it. In situations that called for a chest pass, he would throw an overhead pass, ON THE PERIMETER. Now grant it, I was never a point guard at any point in my life, but even I know that the chest pass is the best pass to use when passing the ball on the perimeter. The game took it upon itself to "dumb down" Chris Paul's ability and decision making in the most fundamental function of a point guard's game - his passing. Overhead passes are slower and have an arcing trajectory. If I was a defender on the perimeter, which type of pass is easier to intercept - a chest pass or an overhead pass? The game "knows" this answer to this, so in order to create more turnover opportunities for the CPU, it "picks" a less desirable pass for the user so that CPU has a better opportunity to jump on the ball.

And this isn't a case of choosing the wrong time to pass the ball or passing the ball at bad angles, these are routine wing passes swinging the ball around to move the defense. Every coach in America will tell you that in order to move the ball faster thus move the defense, passing the ball is a lot faster than dribbling to a spot. Yet, on simulation in this game, that basic offensive fundamental is "taken away" from the user. What does this do for the user? It makes the user's offense more stagnant, less potent, and less able to take advantage of any wholes in the defense.

One of the biggest flawed mechanics in the game on Simulation is directional passing. Directional passing has been the staple of passing in basketball games for the past decade and a half now. On this setting, I saw too many instances where the ball would not go to my intended receiver. This isn't a new problem to 2K though. This has always been a big flaw in its passing game, yet the problem seems to be worse than before on this setting. A couple of cycles ago, 2K and Live both implemented a marker to combat this so that the user will know who the pass would go to before making the pass. Well, I saw a lot of instances as well where the ball still went to another player even though my intended receiver had the white marker under his feet. And what can these frustrating situations lead to? You guessed it, more turnovers. It's like the game is intentional bricking the directional passing system this year to create a "challenge" and to combat the ease of passing that was prevalent in 2K10.

Due to the flawed directional passing system, this forces the user to use icon passing. Now icon passing is advantageous because the intended recipient is guaranteed to get the pass thrown his way, but it is slower to complete thus making it less ideal in situations such as trying to hit a cutter or when executing a fast break. It also seems this year that the pass type chosen for the user when using icon passing is even less ideal than the types used on directional passing.

Users have the ability this year to lead pass using icon passing with a system called Total Control Passing. It's a nice system in concept, but I felt that when I had this option on, I saw too many instances where I would try to use icon passing and the command wouldn't register. At first I thought it was because I was caught in an animation (or the receiver was), but this was occurring even when both passer and recipient were free. I noticed this happening more when I had a guy wide open. It's like the game forced it so I couldn't make the pass thus negating a opportunity to take an uncontested jumpshot. I'm happy to report that I didn't see many of these instances when TCP was turned off. So maybe it's a bug, or maybe it's something worse - like the game "cheating" the user yet again to overcompensate from the CPU's poor defense on that particular play.

Grant, I only had 2 turnovers in the first quarter, but I think that was more due to the lax defensive pressure from the Timberwolves. Going against a better defensive team, I believe those turnovers would have been in the double digits despite the fact that I have the best passing team on the game.

All in all, the passing AI for the user on simulation is severely flawed. So it's not just the user's decision making that's causing all of the turnovers, it's the game design in the passing system that's the main culprit. And while the passing is a little better on default, there still many instances where the game will elect an illogical pass (such as a bounce pass on the perimeter) for the user, thus leading to unnecessary turnovers. 2K could add one simple element to combat this: User Control Passing. Other sports games just such the FIFA series and PES 2011 have systems like these (including the ability to pass the ball into open space), and they work wonderfully. College Hoops 2K8 at least allowed you to select which type of pass you wanted to throw. If I'm not mistaken, I believe even one of the earlier NBA 2K's (2K3, 2K5, I'm not sure) had pressure sensitive passing.
Why a system even close to this is absent in NBA 2K11? Who knows.

And if you don't believe me, take a team, any team, and play 1 possession on simulation then play another possession on default. To make it fair, play the simulation possession on pro, play the default possession on superstar (so maybe won't say the game's difficulty setting is to blame in this particular instance). Make some perimeter passes and pay close attention the passing types being thrown, then report what you see with a comment.

OFF BALL MOVEMENT

Ever noticed how your team just stands there on offense? What happen to all the off ball movement that was in previous games? Oh, it's still there, you just won't see that on simulation. Even for a team where everyone has high offensive awareness ratings, there was ZERO off ball movement. If you want any semblance of movement off the ball, you have to go through a drawn out control sequence just to get a man to make a simple cut. And a lot of times he wouldn't cut with any kind of speed or urgency, so you wind up just avoiding that option altogether.

When playing the game on default, I did see more offball movement, although I would argue that it's still not as much as 2K10. (Implemented purposely to cut down on lead pass opportunities? Maybe, but who knows?)

FAST BREAKS

Another positive with the team I created was that everyone had high fast break ratings. Can you imagine the show that a team featuring Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Lamar Odom, and Josh Smith could do in the transition game against a weak defensive team? Sadly, you don't get to see that show on simulation. Don't get me wrong, there are still some fast break opportunities, some meaning 1 or 2 for the entire quarter. The problem here is that the defense got back way too fast for a team of this caliber. If I were going up against the Lakers, the best defensive team on the game, I could accept that, but the Timberwolves?

Even with fast breaks maxed out, Chris Paul (and his 99 speed) pushing the ball and Lebron and D-Wade on the wings, I wasn't able to get a single 3 on 1, 2 on 1, etc. advantage against the computer. That's not realistic in my eyes. That's screenwriting a.k.a. scripting. That's game once again giving an artificial advantage to the computer just so the user will have to work for EVERY shot. While the challenge is fun at first because it makes the game more competitive, this becomes a very frustrating experience at best in the long run.

DEFENSE

Defense to me is my favorite aspect of basketball. Just like in real life, I pride myself on my defensive ability. I spent 10 years in the military, so I guess defense just comes naturally to me. It's all about protecting the fort - that fort being that little 10 foot thingy at both ends of the court.

Since you can't control all 5 players at once, you have to rely more on the defensive ratings of your teammates and trust that they are doing their best to stay in good defensive position. Luckily for me, I had some good defenders on my squad, right? Well tell me why I wasn't able to hold the weakest offensive rated team on the game to under 50% shooting and why every shot they took was basically uncontested? Why? Because on simulation, the game nerfs your team's defensive abilities to, you guessed it, create more of a challenge of you on the defensive side of the ball.

During the 3 weeks or so playing the demo prior to the game releasing, I spent most of my time trying to see if I could prevent the Celtics from scoring. I was able to hold them to no field goals in many instances, but they always scored off a free throw or something at least. But I was cool with that. At least I knew that I could play defense very effectively in this game. But for whatever reason, my defense was very poor, and I had to go back into replays to see way.

For starters, many instances where I would have gotten a block (and should have gotten a block), I saw the my defenders hand literally morph through the ball. Other times when I forced the shooter into a bad shot, he would pass the ball off to a teammate. Now, I have no problem with that in itself, but these cats were making PERFECT passes to teammates who were not even in good position to receive passes cleanly.

Also, my teammates' defensive awareness just mysteriously disappeared. That beautiful defensive rotation that I witnessed from the demo and on the game's default settings were nonexistent on simulation. This allowed open shots which the T-Wolves (yes those Minnesota T-Wolves) made every last one. (Yet, the user can miss open shots all the time, how is that fair?)

SHOOTING

In order to score in basketball, you have to put the ball into the hole right? So it takes good shooters to get the ball in there. But basketball is a 5 on 5 game, not 5 on 0, so a defense is present to prevent the offense from completing its mission. This is where field goal percentages come in. The magic behind field goal percentages isn't the fact that players miss shots, it's because defenses forces offenses into tougher shots thus lowering their chance to make it. Take a Ray Allen and put him in a gym by himself. Tell him to shoot 100 shots. I would think he would make 75 out of 100 easily! But has Ray Allen ever shot 75% in his career? Nope. Never. It's not because Ray Allen can't shoot. It's because he has a defense to contend with. So if defense is the main determining factor in field goal percentage, why are the shooting sliders lowered so much under simulation? If you want the offense to miss shots, you contest the shot right? Under simulation, the shooting sliders sort of bail you out from good defense because chances are a shooter will miss anyway because of the lowered shooting sliders. This negates the purpose of having good shooters on your team because they will miss open shots in the game that they probably wouldn't miss in real life.

Check out this article that Ed Peterson wrote during the 2004-2005 Sacramento Kings' Season. He looked at every shot each player took that season and broke it down into 4 categories: Wide Open, Open, Contested, Heavily Contested/Double Teamed. As you can imagine, the Kings made over 60% of their open and wide open shots, but only 38% of contested shots, and 26% of heavily contested shots. His statistics prove that solid defense is the biggest determining factor in field goal percentages, not shooting sliders.

CLOSING

Simulation mode isn't all bad. I find that you can have fun, competitive games on Pro/Sim or All-Star/Sim. I feel that the stats are very realistic when playing on a 48 minute game. But to call Simulation mode real basketball to me is incorrect. What that mode does is take away basic fundamentals from the user as well as making the game less dynamic for the sake of getting real stats. It forces every the user to play a tedious half court game even though the team you may be using isn't not a half court team in real life. Some teams such as the Knicks and Warriors depend on their transition game and taken a lot of shots to score points on offense. These teams don't necessarily slow the game down and work to look for the best shot opportunity. When you use sim mode, you're taking away the dynamic and individuality for the team thinking you're playing the game more realistically when you're really not.

To proponents of sim mode, more power to you. Don't let my grievances stop you. Continue to enjoy your game. Just understand that no amount of Youtube videos is going to convince me that these artificial advantages don't exist. Mos1ted, Over and Out!

Comments

# 1 welcome2jungle @ Oct 13

ray allen dont miss for sum reason in this game its weird.. its like he is jordan

# 2 Isura @ Oct 13

Good post. I definitely agree that "sim mode" doesn't feel like sim.

Note about passing. Have you tested right stick passing? (R1 + use right stick for direction). I noticed that right stack passing is more accurate and "smarter" than left stick directional passing.

# 3 Mos1ted @ Oct 13

I used right stick passing when the game first shipped, but turned it off because of situations where I wanted to shoot but would pass instead.

# 4 sithlord06 @ Oct 14

I do think they need a patch to fix all the deflections and tipped passes on the game, it needs a better balance. I was playing with Chris Paul, the best PG in the league and I was throwing all kinds of errant entry to Post passes to Okafor and West...that did not make alot of sense at all to me. Its a fantastic game, I just wish they balanced the deflections better.

# 5 midway23 @ Oct 17

Great post,wait tell u play MyPlayer Mode

# 6 stillfeelme @ Oct 17

Mos1ted,

I think the simulation setting was implemented wrong this is just my opinion. They (2K) tried to get simulation stats for the most part that is true but the gameplay does not end up playing simulation to me. For the same reasons you mentioned. The approach they took was to first make it harder to get points in the paint by creating more contact on the dribble and more contact on the shots and lowered the ability to make layups with contact. The contact frequency and with the ability to not blow by a defender being eliminated does not play like sim. I think a couple of things are impacting the SIM setting making it look bad.

1. Being the level of game you are playing. Which doesn't make sense to me. Why lower my ability to make a pass by the level I am playing on? This gets magnified when we don't have control over the type of pass we can make. To be honest I don't want to control whether my player does a bounce pass versus an overhead pass. I just want to control the speed and the trajectory. My players makes some of the most stupid passes I have seen as in terms of what type of pass to deliver and the speed.

2. The "clutch" rating is taking over and dumbing down our offense/defense awareness and raising the CPU's to bring the game closer. With this on the CPU will go on a crazy run and make all kinds of shots to make the game closer no matter who the team is and the skills of that CPU team.

3. AI for the CPU playing the passing lanes seems too good even for good defensive teams. The CPU is covering too much ground and is in perfect position for too many passes on fast breaks. This is equivalent of Ed Reed's ball hawking skills and your QB throwing floaters across the middle you get nothing but INT's. You couple this with your players throwing slow passes and it does not look SIM.

4. Shooting and defensive ability should be determined by the ratings of your player that is how I feel. I think there should be a rating that accounts for the "human" factor by that I mean is even great shooters like a Ray Allen should be capable of having a bad night shooting even if his release is perfect. Take for example last years playoffs.

# 7 mgreider @ Feb 10

Completely agree on fastbreaks!!!!!! It is extremely frustrating. :/

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