Scrambling QB's, Adaptive AI, Ball Carrier Logic - Gotmadskillzson's Blog

Gotmadskillzson's Blog

Scrambling QB's, Adaptive AI, Ball Carrier Logic

Posted on December 9, 2010 at 01:21 PM.

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First let me start off by saying I have been playing Madden since Madden 92 and been playing college football games since Bill Walsh College Football in the early 90s. So that is a lot of years, a lot of features and technologies have come and gone.

Skip forward to the present. This generation of gaming far as football games is concerned has become really lacking in the fundementals of the game. I remember last generation the excuse for not doing certain things in the game was a cpu power issue or lack of memory or lack of a hard drive issue.

Now we have consoles they are basically mini PC's with HUGE hard drives built inside of them. However when you play Madden 11 or NCAA 11 you always left scratching your head saying why did the CPU do that ? That was stupid !

Adaptive AI was a feature that was introduced into sports viideogames last generation. Suppose to have been to make the cpu competitive. Now some sports games do it right and then some don't.

When it comes to Madden 11 and NCAA 11 they really don't adapt, instead they jump your routes or automatically know where you going on a counter play or read run play. Don't matter if you flip it at the line of scrimmage or not. Play action pass has become instant sack in Madden 11 and NCAA 11.

Why ? Because the defense Play Recognition setting is way too high. Grant it you have your play makers on defense who can do it in real life. However there is no way in the world EVERYBODY on the team should have that same level.

Look at the rosters of Madden 11 and NCAA 11 on the defensive side and you will see everybody Play Recognition in the high 80s or low 90s. Even the freshmen and rookies. If you are a pro bowler or All American then yeah I can see you having a high setting. But if you not a pro bowler or all american then you don't deserve a high rating for that attribute.

I wrote a thread how high Play recognition on defense effects the offensive cpu AI logic here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ble-logic.html

There is a cause and effect for everything. Now let me move on to something that has always been very dear to my heart, scrambling QB's. OR I should say the lack of them in the Madden and NCAA series.

5 and 6 years ago, both of those series use to have them. Came this generation they have been AWOL. Non existent. Scrambling QB's is a huge part of football. To not have it is like playing a soccer game that don't do crosses, playing a baseball game that don't have HR's or base stealers.

In both sports, college football and NFL, look how many championship teams that had a scrambling QB. Dual threat QB is a game changer. Every coach in the world would love to have a dual threat QB.

I must say the throwing out of the sack animation and feature has been the worse thing to ever happen to football videogames. Why ? Because it is way over done. Instead of just taking the sack or SCRAMBLING away, the CPU QB instead will just stand there in the pocket, side step to the right, which I must say is annoying because that is the only direction they ever side step to, then as they get hit, they will fire the ball 30 yards of the field.

Gotten to the point now I haven't needed to use spy plays or QB contain plays in 5 years now. There is no need to, QB's don't scramble, they all play like pocket passers that are cemented to the back field. Vick doesn't play like Vick, Cam Newton, Terrell Pryor, Tyrod Taylor, etc don't play like themselves either.

Which leads me to NCAA 11. A game that the developers touted as being the most realstic college football game ever made. Suppose to have had an unstoppable running attack, spread offense being superior and dangerous. For the past 2 years now the NCAA series has also said beware of the dual threat QB, he is dangerous.

However when you play the game that is far from the truth. Because dual threat QB's don't play like them. So in reality they become a dual liability instead. Since most of them aren't accurate passers and being that they don't ever scramble or run, that is a double whammy negative.

Seeing the CPU run the spread, multiple, option, pistol is HORRID. Blockers don't get out in front fast enough to make the blocks necessary, then the QB run logic is non existant so therefore it always ends up as a 4 yard lost for them every time they try it.

Four patches and 3 tuner updates........And what did that address ? Dynasty, dirty uniforms, player progression. But yet they never did address the horrid QB scramble AI and horrid spread offense execution.

When you play against certain teams, you expect them to do certain things. Especially when they have the ratings and tendancy that labels them as a scrambling QB. Kind of makes you shake your head and say what is the point of putting that label tendancy up there if they don't do it.

I know I am not the only one who plays these football games, see the cpu QB side step all the way to the right, stand there, with nobody in front of them for 15 yards or more, but they still standing there and yell at the tv saying RUN !!!!!!!! Why don't you leave the pocket and run FORWARD.

I recall one of the NCAA developers saying in April that the ball carrier AI logic, number one priority was to get the 1st down. Well apparently the cpu QB's in both football games never got that memo.

You would think their ball carrier vision and awarness logic would kick in. And tell them hmmm, I have 88 speed and the nearest defender that is as fast as me is 25 yards down the field, none of my WR's are open, I think I will run for the 1st down.

Or it would tell them hmmm I see a defender running towards me trying to hurt me, I think I will run away from him for I won't get sacked.

Comments

# 1 bms715 @ Dec 9

I agree, although this probably isn't something they would/could fix in a patch...I don't think I will be satisfied with a football game until the exclusivity agreement is gone

# 2 bamagrad4 @ Dec 10

I've had a few Qb's run after my defense has gotton absolute pressure on him so i've had to jettison the qb spy to slow him down, but yes yr right guys like Newton,Pryor and other good running qb's just don't run unless they run option.

# 3 bjm2210 @ Dec 10

thank you for posting this as i hate this feature about football games so much the QB AI let alone every player AI needs fixed. WR's on 3 and 8 catching a pass along the sideline and not pushing ahead for the 1st down. they need to dive or at least make an effort. Also with the CPU QB AI fixed to make him improvise and run it could help a little with robo QB as instead of triggering the throw away animation it could have him step up in the pocket run to the right

# 4 jmik58 @ Dec 10

Bottom line.... EA needs to find people who are highly knowledged in the game; either players or coaches, and hire them or offer them volunteer positions in the development of the game.

The gameplay is lacking a true football-knowledge foundation with the intricacies.

Football concepts need to be programmed. Computer and game programmers can make a code that forces a running back to run to a first down as priority number one, but there is more to running the ball than linking your beacon to a landmark that is 10 yards away.

That's a very rough example to make my point, but my opening statement is the biggest issue in any sports game.

Programming in sports games needs to be based off intricate knowledge of the game.

# 5 khaliib @ Dec 10

I'll say this, any sports game release next year and thereafter, needs to have tendencies for each position as in NBA 2k11.

This is the minimum for any editing feature here on out.
Any game without this, is simply cheating the gamer and asking them to lower their expectation.

Interesting thing is that after Finn's 2k editor gave gamers under the hood access to 2k's ratings, someone finally said hey, why not include this access within the game and increase sales?

Look at NBA 2k11 sales and satisfaction (still issues, no game is perfect) because gamers have access to tinker and adjust players, thus gameplay, to what they like.

Until EA does this with both their football games, their product and any improvements will always be overshadowed by the limited internal editing feature.

# 6 LucianoJJ @ Dec 11

On some college teams QBs are the best athletes. You are right about the QBs being better scramblers in the previous gen games. Whether it's Vick, Newton, or Robinson the QB position can be exciting. It's not just handoff, drop back and pass, or fall down when the defender gets to you. I'd take more exciting QBs over a coaching carousel.

# 7 Bballplaya72 @ Dec 12

I agree completely with your post.

However if you're going to be publishing blogs on here, at least use proper grammar and spelling. It makes your point that much better.