Amoo316's Blog
Ever since the release of PS3 and Xbox 360 sports gaming has seen a steady decline in quality. Somewhere along the way all of these companies forgot that they needed to put out a quality game year in and year out to keep the consumer happy. Part of this can no doubt be blamed on the internet. Companies now have the ability to patch a game the minute it loads into your console as long as you are connected to the internet, and all of the companies seem to be using this as an excuse to release unacceptable games.
Where before a release date would be pushed back if a title was not complete, now companies ship this products knowing they are incomplete and load fixes onto your machine when you load the game for the first time. The problem with this method of business is it doesn't allow your entire game to go through a massive Q&A test in its final state before it is released to the consumer. This inevitably leads to ongoing problems and breaking just as many things as are being fixed. You don't have to look any further than this year's two baseball titles to see exactly what I am talking about. We are only 14 days since both 2K Baseball and SCEA The Show have been released and they have both combined for three content updates already. Both games are still in unacceptable conditions, meanwhile the companies are scrambling to try to figure out where all of these "new" problems came from.
How is this acceptable? When did I miss the memo that said, "We are going to release your baseball games in March, but don't expect the game to be finished until opening day in April when we PLAN to release our final patch." I can't think of another business that would operate in this way, yet this is the road all of the sports titles are taking. I for one am completely fed up with it and find this business model completely unacceptable. I read this year that John Madden himself called an all hands meeting with the people who produce John Madden Football, arguably the most successful sports game of all time. Hopefully issues like this were discussed, and we as a consumer can start seeing better quality products from release.
The consumer is beginning to get smarter and smarter and has already begun to boycott a lot of these games, which is proven by declining sales since the start of the "New Generation" of gaming consoles. I would sure like to return to a day where I can pull a game out of a wrapper, load it into my machine, see one minor update and have all of the features promised working correctly and efficiently. I severely doubt that day is coming this year or next, and I fear that we may lose one or two of the "Big Dog" companies in the sports business before the dust settles. The solution is simple, if it is still broken, don't release it. Unfortunately in today's world higher ups know they have a little extra time after the product ships to complete it before they reach the consumer, and they show no indication of backing off of this mindset anytime soon.
# 2
Amoo316 @ Mar 17
Yeah that was kind of my inspiration for the whole article. I've been playing more MMORPGs then consoles for the last 5/6 years so I definitely understand how patches can play a role in keeping a game alive or take it from unplayable to thriving. I just can't believe they are knowingly putting out an inferior product then using the excuse that they will have a patch in a month or so.
# 3
trick02 @ Mar 17
It is better financially to release a 90% done game and patch it after then it is to release a perfectly good game a few months later falling behind your competitor in sales.
Everything comes down to how much money you can make. Take MLB 2k9 they released absolute **** which IMO was just to see what we would put up with before killing there sales. The response was overwhelming and thus we got a better MLB 2k10 and there sales took a big hit. All about Risk and Reward.
Everything comes down to how much money you can make. Take MLB 2k9 they released absolute **** which IMO was just to see what we would put up with before killing there sales. The response was overwhelming and thus we got a better MLB 2k10 and there sales took a big hit. All about Risk and Reward.
# 4
Amoo316 @ Mar 18
@trick - I understand the business side of this business, but it is a very fine line and the example you gave was a very good one and proves my point exactly. 2K09 figured they could release a disaster and patch it up by opening day and everything be fine. Unfortunately they released the game in such a horrible state they were unable to fix all of their problems crippling the franchise for what could be years to come regardless of the improvements they make.
@bulls - I'm in no doubt thankful we have the opportunity to have our problems patched out of our games now via the internet. I feel very strongly that six years ago the plan would not have been, "Ok let's get a patch out to fix all this stuff by opening day." I think it would have been more along the lines of, "Holy cow we let these problems get through QA, lets get a patch out to these people as quickly as possibly." That's the difference between then and now, and that is the part of this industry I am starting to loathe.
@bulls - I'm in no doubt thankful we have the opportunity to have our problems patched out of our games now via the internet. I feel very strongly that six years ago the plan would not have been, "Ok let's get a patch out to fix all this stuff by opening day." I think it would have been more along the lines of, "Holy cow we let these problems get through QA, lets get a patch out to these people as quickly as possibly." That's the difference between then and now, and that is the part of this industry I am starting to loathe.
# 5
Eski33 @ Mar 18
I played games when patches didn't exist. You were stuck with bugs and money plays. People shouldn't complain about patches. And because a game needs to be patched doesn't mean the developers are lazy. These folks only have so much time to develop and test a game. Release dates are driven by the licensee (NFL, NHL, MLB, etc.) and not so much the publisher.
Patches are a God-send. When you can buy a game for $60 and identify issues, post said issues in a forum and then these issues get fixed through a painless download, there shouldn't be any complaining. It means we are getting our money's worth.
Stating that sports games are on the decline, in my opinion, is ludicrous. Have you gone back to play the older sports titles? Yeah, not as fun as they were when initially released. The problem with today's sports titles is the expectations raised by the gamers.
If a team has the wrong color socks or a guy doesn't have the correct sized wrist bands, people complain that the game isn't "real enough." I will state, however, that the current batch of sports titles still lack in the realm of extras that the past-gen consoles enjoyed (multiple uniforms, classic teams, etc.).
Although EA seems to be the whipping boy of many sports gamers, EA paved the way for today's games. They were one of the first, if not THE first, to use licensed players and teams. Not to mention, EA has some of the best franchises regarding NHL, FIFA and, arguably, Madden. The Show is the best baseball franchise to grace any console (even including my college days love of Baseball Stars) and NBA 2K series has been beyond outstanding.
Sometimes people need to appreciate how far games have come before they start to complain about little things that have nothing to do with gameplay. So a ball morphs through a guy's hands at times? Big deal. These are not real players, these are computer-generated visuals. If people just take time to look at all the detail in today's sports games I believe they will appreciate the work that goes into making them a little more and, maybe, just maybe, get a little more enjoyment from them.
Patches are a God-send. When you can buy a game for $60 and identify issues, post said issues in a forum and then these issues get fixed through a painless download, there shouldn't be any complaining. It means we are getting our money's worth.
Stating that sports games are on the decline, in my opinion, is ludicrous. Have you gone back to play the older sports titles? Yeah, not as fun as they were when initially released. The problem with today's sports titles is the expectations raised by the gamers.
If a team has the wrong color socks or a guy doesn't have the correct sized wrist bands, people complain that the game isn't "real enough." I will state, however, that the current batch of sports titles still lack in the realm of extras that the past-gen consoles enjoyed (multiple uniforms, classic teams, etc.).
Although EA seems to be the whipping boy of many sports gamers, EA paved the way for today's games. They were one of the first, if not THE first, to use licensed players and teams. Not to mention, EA has some of the best franchises regarding NHL, FIFA and, arguably, Madden. The Show is the best baseball franchise to grace any console (even including my college days love of Baseball Stars) and NBA 2K series has been beyond outstanding.
Sometimes people need to appreciate how far games have come before they start to complain about little things that have nothing to do with gameplay. So a ball morphs through a guy's hands at times? Big deal. These are not real players, these are computer-generated visuals. If people just take time to look at all the detail in today's sports games I believe they will appreciate the work that goes into making them a little more and, maybe, just maybe, get a little more enjoyment from them.
# 6
Amoo316 @ Mar 18
Stating that sports games are on the decline, in my opinion, is ludicrous.
I will state, however, that the current batch of sports titles still lack in the realm of extras that the past-gen consoles enjoyed (multiple uniforms, classic teams, etc.).
@ eski - How can you make these two statements in back to back paragraphs? I think our thoughts on that particular part of this subject is the same. I think we just have a different method of delivery.
I still find it hard to believe that companies are working just as hard as they used to when they knew they were only going to get one shot. Sure some of the older games have bugs in them, but they are no where near as debilitating as some of the ones we see today.
I can live with a guy having the wrong colored socks as you say, that kind of stuff is minor to me, but I feel my point is valid about game play. To give a specific example I have not enjoyed NCAA Football near to the extend I did on last gen. Surely you can agree how frustrating it is to finally get a really really great game with a ton of new features in the last year of an old gen, only to have the game gutted and a lot of those features removed on the new gen. For a specific case see Stadium Noise effects of last gen. That was way more fun and exciting then it is today. Also if you don't think a ton of people really prefer the older gen games then what would be the point to all of these open forums for them.
I agree with you that the new games a awesome looking and that is 50% of the draw, but 50% isn't what we should be expecting when we're shelling out our money every year.
I will state, however, that the current batch of sports titles still lack in the realm of extras that the past-gen consoles enjoyed (multiple uniforms, classic teams, etc.).
@ eski - How can you make these two statements in back to back paragraphs? I think our thoughts on that particular part of this subject is the same. I think we just have a different method of delivery.
I still find it hard to believe that companies are working just as hard as they used to when they knew they were only going to get one shot. Sure some of the older games have bugs in them, but they are no where near as debilitating as some of the ones we see today.
I can live with a guy having the wrong colored socks as you say, that kind of stuff is minor to me, but I feel my point is valid about game play. To give a specific example I have not enjoyed NCAA Football near to the extend I did on last gen. Surely you can agree how frustrating it is to finally get a really really great game with a ton of new features in the last year of an old gen, only to have the game gutted and a lot of those features removed on the new gen. For a specific case see Stadium Noise effects of last gen. That was way more fun and exciting then it is today. Also if you don't think a ton of people really prefer the older gen games then what would be the point to all of these open forums for them.
I agree with you that the new games a awesome looking and that is 50% of the draw, but 50% isn't what we should be expecting when we're shelling out our money every year.
# 7
prettyrik @ Mar 19
Well said. It's 2010 and people and companies need to be held accountable for their actions. This business trend/way of thinking is really hurting the Sports gaming industry.
# 8
UwantRadie @ Mar 19
I had tried to post a long response to this, but FireFox got all choppy on me and didnt post it... too bad, it was all concise and stuff. I think I will just elaborate more on what I said and make it my first Arena posting. But I did want to reply to the last comment... I think we need to re-evaluate the value that we complain about in sports games. I play pretty much every game covering every genre, and without a doubt, Sports games give me the best for my buck. I have never been so shortsighted as to complain about paying for a title each year considering how long each title keeps me entertained*.
I think there is a lot to be said about the value of Sports games... We are MUCH TOO SPOILED for our own good. This is not to say that we should remain silent or just accept everything.. It is just a call to rethink about how much we really are getting from our games.
Of course, every person looks for and needs different things, so if a game's flaw was a gamebreaker for you and resulting in you not getting your $60 worth of entertainment (also keeping in mind how much entertainment you can buy with $60 these days elsewhere), then what I said above desnt apply to you and you have every right to complain**.
*MLB2K9 was the lone exception for me. It was the one sports game in recent years that fialed to break the 20 hour play mark for me.
**You always have a "right" to complain... just not always a valid reason to do so.
I think there is a lot to be said about the value of Sports games... We are MUCH TOO SPOILED for our own good. This is not to say that we should remain silent or just accept everything.. It is just a call to rethink about how much we really are getting from our games.
Of course, every person looks for and needs different things, so if a game's flaw was a gamebreaker for you and resulting in you not getting your $60 worth of entertainment (also keeping in mind how much entertainment you can buy with $60 these days elsewhere), then what I said above desnt apply to you and you have every right to complain**.
*MLB2K9 was the lone exception for me. It was the one sports game in recent years that fialed to break the 20 hour play mark for me.
**You always have a "right" to complain... just not always a valid reason to do so.
# 9
Eski33 @ Mar 19
@Milbut...Because games have fewer options doesn't mean that they aren't good. My point is that sports games have gotten much better in terms of gameplay and visuals.
# 10
LucianoJJ @ Mar 20
We are the paying game testers. If enough of us report bugs in a forum, it generally get patched. If enough of us ask for a new feature, or a gameplay improvement, it has a shot at getting added to the game in the future.
# 11
cdpig @ Mar 20
the latest patch fixed the auto trade problem in MLB 10, so your good there. i understand your frustration, i had it, but this games quality is off the charts and for having to put one out every year i'd count my blessings. EA Sports NHL game, Fifa this year, and Sony's MLB 10 should be getting your praises for quality even with the bugs they needed to fix.
# 12
tril @ Mar 21
that's the software business in general.
product gets shipped out, knowing that products will be patched in the near future. the first patches for most products have already been in the works for several weeks, if not longer; even before the product is shipped/released.
that's the nature of the business, and with sports games being more complex, the consumer shouldnt expect anything different.
for the most part. sports games have come along way. For the most part, gameplay is solid.
I noticed that most of the complaints are usually in the details., not the functionality.
headband, arenas not being authentic, no name sneakers IMO are trivial complaints. a product will always ship, if its trivial cosmetic issues.
in addition, testing can only do so much. real world environment can only be replicated so much. bugs will always exist.
product gets shipped out, knowing that products will be patched in the near future. the first patches for most products have already been in the works for several weeks, if not longer; even before the product is shipped/released.
that's the nature of the business, and with sports games being more complex, the consumer shouldnt expect anything different.
for the most part. sports games have come along way. For the most part, gameplay is solid.
I noticed that most of the complaints are usually in the details., not the functionality.
headband, arenas not being authentic, no name sneakers IMO are trivial complaints. a product will always ship, if its trivial cosmetic issues.
in addition, testing can only do so much. real world environment can only be replicated so much. bugs will always exist.
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Show - Franchise, no reason I should have to control all 30 teams to prevent my team from trading away my players.
Both - The fact that both staffs' feel that waiting until sometime around opening day to release a patch to hopefully resolve these issues for a game they release in March is even more absurd.