Phase 1 Complete: Eliminate Skill Level.

[CVELL]

I have been all over the blogs searching for not only what was the point - but why does it seem like Defense is so hard to play in Madden this year.

I still have no idea - so i want to give my opinion just in case someone else may have seen something I have not.

I believe the purpose was to make skill level less of a factor when playing Madden.

Example: By now it should be common knowledge of the routes, plays or gimmicks that can only be stopped by doing something (or sometimes multiple things) to defend a specific route, play or gimmick.

It seems like the out route is now something a player with low skill level can do over and over to open up the rest of their offense. Once their opponent starts to defend the out route - then throw a screen out of the same formation. And last but certainly not least - if you are playing someone adept at playing Defense - run the hurry-up and take advantage of one of the most mind boggling gimmicks used in Madden today.

That is - the ability to audible to an entirely different play and/or formation WHILE the Offense is running to the line of scrimmage. This is by far the most abused gimmick used in Madden today. If you are going to allow the hurry-up in Madden to line up faster than real life - at least do not allow the Offense to change their formation until they get to the line of scrimmage.

I am heavily invested into these next-gen consoles and am wondering if anyone has knowledge of if this is the way Madden will be programmed moving forward. I believe single player games with online features are about to make a huge comeback but I am a sports gamer at heart.

Any info will be appreciated - thanks.

[fletcher2332]

Everything is catered to the 10 year old kid who has no skills. EA don't care about defense. Heck they don't even care about their game. Everyone who bought it this year was suckered and should be able to claim it at the end of year on taxes as CHARITY!


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[AE Spits Fiya]

I've never thought of that. That is kindda stupid. The thing i hate the most though is when you're completing a 75 yard pass within 2 minute warning, it's faster to select gameplan, because all your players are automatically teleported to the line of scrimmage. If you run hurry up they gotta run all the way to the spot of the ball. Takes 5-10 seconds longer than teleporting.

[beastmode2013]

At least it isn't AS bad as the defense in NCAA

[PGaither84]

Defenses in Madden play more like a high school defenses at best. Not pro style. Very basic assignments and AI logic. Also, the way the line play is coded for madden, the O-Line knows who is going to pass rush an from where. The only way to get realistic confusion out of the O-line and pass protection schemes is to "cheese." You have to take a play where, say, and OLB is blitzing, then hot route him into a hook zone, user control him and manually blitz to maybe get a free lane at the QB and have the play blocked "correctly."

Also, to be fair, a lot of people don't know enough about real defense and complain about things that Madden actually gets right. In real life man coverage is hard. You are taught to not let your man beat you deep, to typically not allow inside release, to keep your hips and head on a swivel, to swat passes with your inside hand while keeping your outside hand ready to make a tackle and that's about it. Double/Bracket coverage is different as well as BANJO coverage. In double or bracket coverage, the corner or line backer takes all inside and short breaking routes while letting the safety take all outside and deep breaking routes. Madden doesn't even really deal with BANJO coverages, which I can explain on request, but seeing how it isn't in he game it doesn't matter.

Zone coverage in real life is almost dead for two reasons:

1.) Many QBs today have such powerful throwing arms compared to the average QB 20 years ago that the classic idea of "Drop back into zone and break on the ball"simply doesn't work. As Nick Saben has said, when Dan Marino is dropping back, that [expletive deleted] goes right out the window." Dan had a rare arm strength, but the point still stands. A lot of QBs in today's league can put so much velocity on the ball that it gets there before you often have a chance to break on it.

2.) Zone coverage has been "solved" We know how to beat it. FLOOD, for example, is a classic zone beater. As it's name implies, you simply flood a zone and create 2 on one situations. Which ever receiver the defender chooses to cover, the other one will be left open. SMASH, LEVLES, and SPACING are great against cover 2 zones and is why the TAMPA 2 defense has been dead for almost a decade. For the most part, you just make a presnap read to see if you have MOFO/MOFC [Middle of the field open/covered] and see if it stays that way as you drop back. Against MOFO, post routes are money [which is why in TAMPA 2 the Mike would drop into a deep third and it wasn't a true cover 2 zone, but this would leave 5 yard in routes and drive routes open]

What I have been reading lately is how to paly proper cover 3 and cover 1 defense. That seems to be the only effective way to play defense right now consistently. You can disguise it by showing MOFO and then rolling into CLOUD coverate or having a Cover 1 bracket like the 49ers have done under Vick Fangio. Another good play in real life is Cover 6, but in Madden you need to tell your flats CB to play a hook zone and user him or a linebacker.

I could also go on about cover 3 SCF coverage by the safety or linebacker, but I cna save that for another post. What I want to talk about next is that after all of this coverage talk, is that the pass rush in Madden certainly leaves something to be desired. The only way I have been able to get any kind of consistent pressure is with user control, but at the expense of weak coverage. If I want to cover well I have to sacrifice my pass rush.

You see, my problem is that Madden isn't a chess match. It is checkers. Iwant more out of it than i can give me. So, in the end I just accept it and play checkers. Just send 4 or 5 at the QB, drop into coverage the best I can and hope I don't give up too many points while on offense I try to stick to schemes and make it look and play as realistic as possible. That's all I can do with what we have. What I really like about Madden 25 is the franchise mode and it's story lines that keep you invested in the season. That way I an focus on something other than the game play. That way franchise mode isn't just a collection of play now games.

[sl8b]

PGaither,

Do you use cover 1 to confuse the defense along with cover 3 since they line up the same, or does cover 1 consistently work for you? I am getting destroyed with any man defense, unless it's an all out blitz and I get lucky and generate pressure.

I use a lot of basic cover 3 plays, and hot route the corners to buzz zones. If I have time, I then user a DL to try and get to the QB. Based on what you are saying, it may be serviceable to develop a cover 3/cover 1 type scheme to at least try and slow the offense down. You should start a defensive discussion in the strategy section.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by sl8b

PGaither, Do you use cover 1 to confuse the defense along with cover 3 since they line up the same, or does cover 1 consistently work for you? I am getting destroyed with any man defense, unless it's an all out blitz and I get lucky and generate pressure. I use a lot of basic cover 3 plays, and hot route the corners to buzz zones. If I have time, I then user a DL to try and get to the QB. Based on what you are saying, it may be serviceable to develop a cover 3/cover 1 type scheme to at least try and slow the offense down. You should start a defensive discussion in the strategy section.

I use cover 2 double TE or Double Sot to improve the coverage on these two position that constantly tear up man coverage. I find that the MAN COVERAGE ratings matter, but most nickle corners and linebackers have such low man coverage ratings that they become a liability. Also, man is the only way to fight screen passes consistently.

However, having just gotten Madden 25, and messing with the custom playbooks feature, I noticed that these double/bracket plays also aren't in the game. At least, I haven't found them yet. You can still call Cover 1 Robber or Cover 1 Spy and user the zone/spy defender to manually double the TE or slot. That's what I do.

[DeuceZeroz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x81pM49zjP8

How different is what you are talking about with at least the formations from whats in this video? Specifically the last minute or so..

Even though it is the Patriots, who are great at doing this, people are going to copy what they see in real live that works. Wether or not EA can implement something to differentiate the teams, but who are they to decide that? If you use Buffalo online, should you catch hell because they didnt have a no huddle last year vs now with E.J. Manuel?

Other stuff I totally agree with