Not gonna happen. I can't imagine the cord will never be cut here.

As for Roku, I did mean only "Roku-enabled(?) SmartTV" (or however that should be worded). i.e. there's no specific roku device in the house or anything

So that's going to be the issue regardless of what fire stick or streaming device you get. Your wife ended up on the DVR somehow and a new streaming device on HDMI 2 isn't going to change that at all.

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No no, I've long since given up on the DVR thing with her. Sorry, throwing that example in probably created confusion. I simple meant it as an illustration of the level of issues.

Half the time, I think, she ends up getting lost just trying to get TO the app menus on the smart tv. If she does get there and clicks, say, the Netflix app (or YT or whatever) the response time is horrendous. She may think it didn't register, ends up clicking again. Or means to but clicks the wrong button on the remote or ends up in one of the tabs at the top instead of in the app menu or whatever.

My question was based around whether maybe getting to HDMI2 and the Firestick interface being there could be an improvement IF the interface was simpler -- not like the TV interface with 4-5 tabs across the top with only one of those being the app screen she oughta be on. And maybe as a dedicated "device" it might have response times better than 2-3 minutes it takes this smart tv to open any of the stupid apps and actually connect/become functional.

From the replies here, honestly, it sounds like Firestick would be marginal improvement at most unfortunately. I was just trying to do good, make it not be such an ordeal for her to watch stupid apps on the stupid TV. (I can usually do it but she hates to summon me from the batcave to do so, etc etc). It may just be a bridge too far (which is kinda what the child unit said to me when I ran this idea by him)

Aaaaand Amazon renders my question untimely - if not downright moot - by not including anything smaller than the $79 Cube part of Prime Day. The possible usefulness to us (okay, her) isn't anywhere near that price point

Ahh... ok. I was thrown for a loop, re: DVR.

I can definitely see a response time on Roku TVs being ridiculously slow (dedicated streamers tend to be faster in general). For what it's worth, I find Amazon's system to be a bit... crowded. Roku dedicated boxes are super simple. And with Google TV (the new Chromecast with Google TV for instance), you can just put it in "App" mode.

But you can always search in YouTube for "Fire stick operating system" or "Fire stick User Interface" to find videos to see how it would work.

re: Firestick - as for Prime Day sales, wait until Black Friday-ish. They tend to discount the Fire sticks pretty often. I got my Fire Stick 4k (which I got for future hotel room stays... uh, pre COVID... since Fire sticks have an inbuilt browser for logging into hotel wifis) for like $25 on a random sale once.

For what it's worth, Fire Stick 4k just dropped to $30 for the next 30 hours or so.

Thanks.
I noticed something so I'll share in case anybody else is lurking the thread

Was at a buddies house the other day who has a firestick. Decided to get one on Prime Day for $25. He told me about downloader and I did it and downloaded Mobdro. Holy shit my life may have changed forever.

Careful though. Official sources are legal, but there is a lot that is not legal coming through as well.

I like to live dangerously.

With a VPN, hopefully

SI

with a what?

kidding. Yes there is a VPN

So now Hulu Live TV has announced it's dropping the Sinclair RSNs. This is after SlingTV and YouTubeTV have done similar. I believe the only streaming TV service that has them is AT&T TV? I'm not sure what Sinclair is doing here.

...charging too much?

SI

Trying to recoup their investment and failing, I'm guessing. When the NBA/NHL comes back, that's when the real pressure will start, because there are basically no important regional sports on until that happens. CFB is basically fully covered by national networks.

Well most people still have cable, where the RSNs are still around. For all the talk that everyone is going streaming, it's still not a massive amount (though growing daily).

Yeah, right now our local RSN has been offline on FIOS since the beginning of the month. With no local sports there is no incentive for either side to negotiate. Normally these contract disputes last no more than 1 day or two.

Been searching, but it doesn't look like you can stream the Sinclair RSN stations independently (without cable). Wonder how long before they do an ESPN+ type subscription service...

The price gouging continues.

Hulu + Live TV will be increasing their price from $54.99 per month to $64.99 per month (an 18% increase), effective December 18, 2020.

Once YouTubeTV went up, I knew it'd be a matter of time before Hulu did. The content providers have these services by the balls.

Also has put into perspective why cable prices keep going up. I thought it was just Comcast. Turns out content providers will nickel and dime any service.

And Hulu (no ads) + Live TV goes from $60.99/month to $70.99/month.

Anyone have experience with DirectTV internet? We have optimum cable but I think I am going to switch back to Direct TV. Our TV service is horrible, the DVR is shit. The internet is fine though and I am nervous to switch to satellite internet.

Comcast just put a cap on our data plan. By their new rules, based on our usual usage levels, we're looking at up to $100 a month in overage fees if we continue at our current streaming levels. Good times. We currently use Hulu plus Live TV, plus Netflix, Disney+, etc. DirecTV not looking like a good alternative pricewise (we need the Choice package to get BTN, which is mandatory). So we'll try limiting our data usage and see how that goes.

If you are in an AT&T service area, you'll get that for internet. If not, I'd steer clear of it. Low data caps, not great speed, and high latency.

Consumer Reports is trying to stop Comcast from instituting the cap. Sign the petition!

Really Comcast? Data caps during COVID-19?

That might actually be the first internet "petition" I've signed in a decade or more.

I know they don't care, and I figure I'll end up spammed over it, but that was about the easiest whole hearted endorsement I've had a chance to make in years.

I have an old hotmail account that I use for anything that might get me spammed. Works great.

I wish AT&T caps would get killed off too. I am stuck with f'ing DSL and a 150GB cap. It costs a fortune too. They refuse to install anything else (Comcast does as well).

We've had Comcast data caps in this area for a few years now. We ended up canceling our TV subscription to offset the surcharge to go data capless.

I saw yesterday that we ended up using 2TB of data last month and have been over 1.5 every month since switching to capless.

The dispute between Sinclair (regional Fox Sports channels) and the streaming services has left me out of pocket with no other option than to go back to DirectTV for Ducks hockey and Angels baseball. No way I’m doing that, so I guess NHL TV and a VPN is the best option

Bleh, yeah I signed up for a month of NHL.tv just a bit ago and am trying some DNS service to work around the local blackout issue. Will see how it goes....

I’m in the same boat but NHL TV doesn’t really help. I’m just below Cincinnati and both Nashville and Columbus are blacked out. I’ve about given up on watching my favorite teams in hockey and baseball. It’s ridiculous.


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How are they allowed to have blackouts when you're not allowed to go to games?

Because they know they can't put the genie back in the bottle if the break blackouts for this year

SI

It's more about protecting the local TV contracts than game attendance.

I don't understand how people still think blackouts are based on attendance. That usage of blackouts only ever existed in the NFL and they haven't done that in while. The MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS has them because clubs sell the local tv rights deals.

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Happy to report that YonderTV (in conjunction with NHL.tv) is working great on my Apple tv. No blackout.

just wish NESN and YouTubeTV were able to make a deal. Wanted to see the Bruins :(

Does using a VPN like Yonder affect locals on my streaming service, YouTubeTv? I’d be using the Yonder on Apple TV. Or is it better to use it on the router? I’m hesitant to mess with my router because my wife is working from home currently, and needs it to be very reliable as she is a broker for Morgan Stanley.


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What are you hoping to accomplish, cougar? I have yonder and YTTV on my Apple TV, which is actually only a secondary device to me now as I've been all-in on Nvidia Shields for awhile now. I believe yonder is really only used to bypass blackouts for nhl and mlb tv.

It's not a vpn, which is why it was much more attractive to me as I don't want all my traffic on my router being affected by my hockey lust. All you do is modify the DNS on your streaming device to the one yonder says to use. Somehow it determines your IP when you connect to it and from there it obfuscates your real location so you aren't deemed to be in your normal tv market. I wasn't really sure if it'd affect other things on the streaming device, which is why I whipped up my Apple TV, which was sitting in a box.

That’s all I need to do. Bypass blackouts on both NHL and later MLB. But I really don’t want to mess with my network, as my wife uses it. And I run YouTubeTv on the same device. Wasn’t sure if since I’m changing what Yonder says on their website if I’d lose my local channels on Youtibe because it seems like the service “changes” the location of my Apple TV device.

If it doesn’t work do I need to write down the DNS thing I’m changing in case I want to switch back?


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Pretty sure it won't affect YTTV, but I can verify that for you when the local news pops up on the guide on my Apple TV. They also offer a 7 day trial, which I'm still taking advantage of. Of course I had to take a gamble on the NHL.tv package, though I did the monthly package to mitigate that a bit.

Awesome. Thanks!


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Locals on youtubeTV are definitely in tact two days after I made the dns change on my ATV.

Awesome. Thank you I appreciate it!


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So for a combination of NFL + SEC football, what streaming services do you guys recommend?

From my research, looks like Hulu Live is best option?

Hulu Live does not carry the NFL network. I would recommend Youtube TV.

Dola,

My bad. Hulu signed a contract with the NFL network and will begin televising on August 1. Still, for the overall sports fan, I think Youtube TV or FuboTV are the best options. The MLB and NHL networks are important to me, and Hulu does not carry those.

The disputes never end. YoutubeTV is on the verge of losing the NBC family of networks this Thursday, which sucks ass as an English soccer fan. Peacock is one of the worst apps around and doesn't even stream every match. I would have to switch again ugh!

And in the latest round of "chicken", YouTube TV and Disney have reached an impasse on their renewal, so as it stands now, all of the Disney Channels (including ESPN channels) are scheduled to go dark at 11:59 PM tonight.

This comes at a bad time, with bowl season just starting.

This is why I continue to stick with DTV. The streaming services are basically the same as old cable. I'd still need 3 different streaming services, all with different rules and some with no or little DVR capability, to match what I get with DTV, at about a $25 savings. And every time I call DTV for any reason, they throw free stuff and discounts at me. Just not worth it yet.

Well crap. Outback bowl is on ESPN2 and I have YT.

It's still worth it to me. I used to have the DTV Choice Extra package, and regularly got credits to defray the cost. A couple of years after AT&T bought them out, the credits all but dried up. So instead of paying $125 per month, we go with YTTV or Hulu and save about $65 per month. It's easy to switch back and forth because there's no contract. We'll switch back to Hulu if YTTV doesn't resolve their dispute with Disney in a timely manner.

JFC

I will probably bite the bullet and get Sling Orange for a month to make sure I can watch bowl games. I will never go back to cable or satellite as long as I am forced to use their POS hardware and pay their POS fees.

And sign their POS contracts.

With the recent channel changes (ESPN removed) on Youtube TV, and after talking with my wife, I’d like to announce my decommitment from Youtube TV. With that being said, I’m excited to announce my commitment to Hulu Live! Respect my decision. #GodsPlan pic.twitter.com/czeYRuhckZ

— Blake Smith (@bhsmith1998) December 18, 2021

This.

Okay, was going to unsubscribe to Youtube TV after the SuperBowl but will do it now and hop over to Disney bundle with ESPN.

I wonder how much subscribers YT will lose over this.

The Disney bundle would include ESPN+, which will not have the content that is on ESPN or ESPN2. I actually just signed up for Sling Orange, which is $10 for new subscribers. After a month I'll decide if it's time to cancel YTTV again. I'd probably go to DirectTV Stream so I can get Bally's again and watch the Minnesota Wild.

The drama is over. Disney owned content back on YouTubeTV

Pretty good deal. Channels off for one day = $15 discount. I'll take it. ;)

Thanks for the heads up, I assumed ESPN+ would have regular ESPN channels. I was researching other options when Youtube announced ESPN was back on so I'm set for the bowl games.

I thought that too. It's annoying that they don't carry the ESPN network content on ESPN+.

Having completely cut the cord, I sometimes wish networks like ESPN and Big Ten Network would offer a la carte.

I doubt they will any time soon, because they get so much revenue off of requiring basic tier placement from cable and the major streamers.

That carriage fee is very high because the cable companies know massive numbers of people would drop cable and go a la carte if they could. And ESPN knows that once it's done, they will have to continually justify what they charge.

Neither one has any desire to lead this break, which would probably wind up breaking the cable system. And there's no incentive for ESPN to stop raising its fees. YTTV tried and I doubt ESPN even blinked. YTTV would have been out of business within months if they had stuck to their guns here.

We're getting closer to having the opportunity for NFL's Sunday Ticket a la carte (you can now, but it requires not being able to get Direct TV). That retails for about $25/month - which gets you out-of-market NFL games you can't already get over the air. That has me thinking something like ESPN, if it were available a la carte, would start even higher.

It's going to be completely cost prohibitive. People kind of laughed at Bally's wanting their RSN product to be over $20 a month, but that's how much these would cost divorced from bundles. ESPN properties would likely be $30 a month.

Even though I have been with DTV for 20 years, I had long wished Sunday Ticket wasn't tied to them because without it, there's no NFL Red Zone-type channel on DTV. But since they've been giving me Sunday Ticket for free for 3 years running, I'm kinda pissed they are going to lose it!

Isn't that exactly what I just wrote? Since we agree, isn't the question really more about how far ESPN will push carriage before worrying that each push removes so many people from the cable bundle that the system finally topples?

YTTV probably blinked. But they fired a very important shot before they did. They offered $15/month off for the duration of the outage. Now more people - people who don't watch sports - understand just how much ESPN drives the entire bundlewagon. That was dangerous, but it also indicates that they know how close this is to toppling and they're willing to risk that danger because they don't think ESPN understands.

Let's say ESPN costs $30/month - twice Netflix, right (I've never been a Netflix subscriber). How many sports fans will pay that? Will that generate the same total revenue that forcing everyone to pay $15/month generates? Not to mention the additional cost of marketing and putting together a secure and useful app.

Counterpoint, ESPN wanted YouTube TV to take the channels away for a day to drive people to subscribe to ESPN+

Except ESPN+ doesn't give you access to ESPN - just their mediocre extra content and excess inventory. Otherwise, half the country would have switched to ESPN+ years ago.

SI

Best I could tell, at least a huge chunk of the Southeast. My feed had a number of people downright frantic when they woke up & it wasn't there (I was surprised by how many were YTTV subs tbh).

And of the ones I saw a resolution of, 4 out of 5 had changed providers before the lockout was even resolved.

If ESPN ever loses their near monopoly on college football, they'll be in serious trouble I think. But until then, they can get away with just about anything.

Makes sense. Other than the usual crappy MNF game, there's really not much I tune into ESPN for these days outside of college football. Though even then I probably consume just as much of that on CBS/BTN/Fox.

Since we're recently (as in, about a week ago) empty-nesters, it has me re-evaluating a lot of what we spend money on. My DirecTV bill is over $200 a month, and that's before I add in the MLB package.

I haven't looked at streaming plans in over a year, but in looking at YTTV now, I think we could make that work. I'd have to make sure we can get every channel we use, but I think it hits nearly every one. No doubt, we'd add several packages so the true cost would be at least $100+, but that's still half the cost of DTV. And it looks like the DVR options are greatly expanded from what they used to be.

I think there would be a few minor issues (like no local sports network - Bally's OH is not on their plan I don't think), but it has me considering it early next year. I'm definitely sticking with DTV through the NFL season - they gave me Sunday Ticket Max for free again this year. But this is their last year with that monopoly, so I figure year is a good time to switch. Or... I suppose I can try to get them to come massively down off their price with some decent credits? I may try that route before cutting cord, but I don't think it's going to be too much longer.

For those who have YTTV, are you happy with it? One thing that scares me is losing content all of a sudden. It seems like streaming services have less of a set programming lineup, and the loss of one or two key channels would make this a bad move for me.

YTTV is the best of all the streaming services, hands down. It's App/UI and DVR are really good. The biggest downside for me is the lack of Bally's. You're right that channels can come and go, but that's the case with just about every other option as well (other than cable). I cut the cord over six years and I've tried them all. The 2nd best option no longer exists (Playstation Vue). I gave the DirecTV streaming option a chance since they had Bally's, but the app was hot garbage. Maybe it's gotten better, but I doubt it tops YTTV.

Edit: Oh, and you probably know that there is no contract, so you can pause your subscription and give one of the other ones a try. I don't think there is a single service that isn't month to month.

I like that there's no contract, but the idea of possibly needing to constantly switch/pause and having to adjust to new services is a net minus for me. I'd prefer stability if you offered me that or no contract.

Makes sense, but like I said I think only cable is the least impacted by carriage disputes. Both satellite companies and all the streaming services can be affected AFAIK.

Looks like Bally Sports' standalone app is set to launch in a bit over a month. $19.99 a month or $189.99 per year. That price is a spicy meatball, but I will probably give in.

The stability of cable was nice, and prevented movement, but three years post-cable now, and we just don't miss it.

I've used a Tablo and an antenna for almost a year now. We still have the issue of being 40 miles from the Cleveland broadcasts and 40 miles from the Youngstown broadcasts, so OTA (over-the-air) requires moving the antenna, especially during football season since the Cleveland's FOX affiliate is local broadcast only. Some of the sub-channels only come in at night.

I guess it's preference. I would have liked to have seen the last season of Better Call Saul, but that's what, 8-10 hours out of having to make sure we have AMC in some expensive package. Better just to wait and buy the Blu-Ray if it's that important. So it's all about the sports, and what's on the networks seems like it's enough.

We dumped DirecTV a couple of years ago and replaced it with a few services and still come out cheaper.

YouTube TV mainly for my father in law to watch "regular" TV, but I use it for football and the kids watch it depending on what they want to watch. With everything we have, we're paying less than half for streaming services over DirecTV and don't miss it at all.

I watch all my sports illegally these days & don't lose any sleep over it. Fuck 'em.

I've switched back and forth a few times over the past five years from Hulu to YouTube TV to Sling and to Fubo, and it's not that big of a deal. It only takes a few minutes, and you really don't need to switch very often.

We tried them all at one point, the issue with youtube tv was the DVR. At the time we tried them there was no way to delete watched recordings. If you recorded a couple seasons of a show you always had to go through the recordings to find where you left off. That may have changed in the last year or so. Finally settled on Fubo and get all the channels we want except Bally OH for less than $100 a month..

I'll have to check out Fubo's lineup. I haven't looked at that one.

Between my wife and me, we have a few specialty channels each of us must have, or it's a no-go. For my wife, it's the Hallmark channels. So, Hulu is not an option (at this point, anyway).

Hallmark is on Fubo.

So I just did a deep dive on FuboTV and YTTV and there are channels missing from each that would make it a difficult sell to switch.

Neither of them have History channel (losing Alone and Oak Island is a no go). Fubo doesn't have TBS/TNT/Tru or CNN channels. YTTV doesn't have Tennis channel (which I'm watching right now and watch every day I work from home since they show live matches all day long). And there are probably more I'm not even thinking about right now.

Fubo appears to be the best option (assuming UI and actual execution of deliverables, of course), but having to find solutions for X number of holes in the programming is where I think it all breaks down. I think I could adapt better than my wife, which means I'm screwed!

The real question is whether any currently airing content on particular channels is available immediately for streaming on other add-on apps (like, for History channel, can I buy Peacock+ or Discovery+ and get new episodes of Oak Island as they air available to stream, or is it one of those "wait until the season is over and maybe it'll be available for a limited time" things?).

How does everyone who streams deal with particular shows you want to watch on channels you don't get?

Usenet (shiver me timbers). @thesloppy :cool:

Yeah...no. If I wanted a flashback to my college years, I'd find some retro AirBnb that had dial-up internet access and wax nostalgic.

My main question is, do add-on streaming apps give you access to current on-air programming (even if you have to wait a day or week for it to appear after it airs), or is it more of an inventory of past offerings you have access to?

We got a subscription to Philo for my wife to watch Hallmark, the HGTV/Food Network group, and some other channels. It's been a good add-on subscription for us.

Philo has live tv for it's channels as well as past offerings. Disney+, on the other hand, doesn't show any of the Disney Channels' live content. So, it will vary by service.

lol. It's pretty amazing how usenet can be used to transfer binaries. My setup is pretty sophisticated and automated. It's great, because I really only have YTTV for sports.


I'm not an expert on this, but I believe it's more the former. And it seems like some networks are are starting to put their best content only on the apps. I suppose it's something you will need to investigate on a case-by-case basis.

We have Discovery+ and Paramount+ and the current on air shows are put up within a day or so.

Coming up on 10 years for us, and don't miss much, either.

We've settled on Disney+, Netflix, and Prime (which we already had, back in the day), and it seems to work out well. There are some show on other streaming sites (e.g. For All Mankind on Apple TV) that I'd like to see, but can't, but the fact of the matter is that there's so much good content these days, and comparatively so little time (at least for me), I don't feel I'm missing much.

Live sports continues to be the big drawback. Although we did make an HDTV antenna work for the Super Bowl and the NBA Finals. I got all excited when NBC/Peacock rolled out the EPL a few years ago, and paid for a subscription to Peacock, but routinely found the games I wanted to watch were going to be on NBC or NBCSN, or another cable channel they own, none of which I could reliably watch so:


It'll be interesting to see as TV contracts for major leagues turn over if the traditional broadcast companies can continue to offer enough money to keep the leagues from going streaming, or if there's enough potential streaming revenue out there for them to go in that direction.

I'm in a much different place, viewing-wise, than pretty much anyone, ever, I'm quite sure. So my channel needs are quite specific and sporadic.

Live sports is #1. Fubo definitely seems to be the best option. But, no TBS/TNT/Tru is a huge hole. That's March Madness, baseball playoffs, NHL playoffs, NBA, etc., not to mention Impractical Jokers. That's a gaping hole.

Also, most of these plans don't appear to have the regional sports networks, but I can live without that. I don't care much about watching the Reds, Bengals are on broadcast TV, and maybe I lose out on Pacers and Cavs games? We seem to be tagged with 2-3 NBA teams, but not a huge loss.

I believe the only way to supplement the loss of Turner networks would be to get a second service like Sling. And then you get into the "switch to this app for these channels, but this app for these channels, and then don't forget we have History+ for these channels, and ESPN+ for this," etc.

This is always where my plan to switch goes awry. It's a lot to get used to/learn when for 45 years, you've been used to everything all in one place. I rarely use Netflix because it requires me to switch to an app, even though my My List is piled up with stuff I'd be interested in watching.

I have time to think it through. Like I said, I'm not giving up Sunday Ticket Max since they're giving it to me for free, so I won't switch at least until early next year.

Hulu has live TV. Don't know if it fits your needs, but it's how we get our live TV.

I feel like I need one of Jim's spreadsheets to figure out which services will work in combination with which add-on services, plus DVR options, # of screens/streams, etc.

I guess it gives me something to do between now and the end of the NFL season.

This topic makes me wonder what the last non-sports thing I actually watched on "tv" was. (a term used to cover all forms of stuff that isn't streaming-only).

I gave up on TWD a couple seasons back, so that ain't it.

In all honesty, under the ... new situation (how's that for a euphemism?) ... in my home life I almost certainly SHOULD "cut the cord". But I have no desire to try to figure out all the permutations I'd need for live sports stuff.

Interesting discussion.

Our situation was similar to Ksyrup's, with a DirecTV bill of about $200 per month. Right now, with YouTube TV it's $65 per month. There are a few channels we don't get now that we would watch, but we determined it was better to save the $135 per month than to pay $200 to get those few channels (plus about 150 more that we NEVER watched).

Yep, that's the question. On paper, it certainly seems like a no-brainer, but we don't watch a bunch of scripted/fictional series. So the reality/doc stuff we do watch, we definitely want to watch and would miss.

Fubo seems like the no-brainer easy choice for a sports-first lineup. If I could trade in 33% of their channels I'll never watch for TBS/TNT/Tru, I would do it for sure. Looks like they lost those channels in 2020.

Another thing that is an interesting dynamic is that Turner and Discovery are now under the same umbrella. So, does that mean it is more or less likely they add the Turner channels back, or lose Discovery if Warner attempts to increase carriage fees for all of the combined properties?

Gah! Fubo and YTTY also don't have A&E.

See, the more I dig, the better the chance that I'll be bumping this thread in 18 months!

If your TV viewing is pretty much only sports, I'd say you're one of the few demographic left for whom a cable package is the best choice.