Here's another thing from the same mailer:

The raid on former president Trump’s personal residence has left many people asking: if this can be done to a former president, what does this mean for the citizens of the United States?

Well, I'm guessing that raids can happen on regular citizens too? Sometimes they are even shot and killed while they are sleeping.....but you know...they weren't really there for the Breonna Taylor raid.

Dude...you're talking about minorities and raids...not white people...c'mon. FBI doesn't do that to white people, at least, not Trump loving suckers...right?

I just want one of these events to finally break Trump, like his ego just can't handle the lies and the weight collapses them all from the cerebral cortex and crushes his spine and makes him into a fat pile of goo and flop sweat.

They're not lies if he believes them.

Good one! Stewart eeks out a close EC victory as Scott Adams' 3rd party bid siphons just enough votes from Miller in swing states.

:lol:

"They told me, 'Sir, you should see all the classified documents Barack HUSSEIN Obama took! Stuffed down his pants, in Michelle's bra, there were so many documents removed it was like trying to stop a waterfall with a toothpick.' Unbelievable!"

It’s not very good, but the talking point has been established. pic.twitter.com/VB5svffL7z

— Seth Cotlar (@SethCotlar) August 12, 2022

Before Monday, the right wing spin has become that the FBI/DOJ was not aggressive enough with Trump. They wronged him by giving him time to comply and by not using aggressive law enforcement against him.

It is true tyranny that they weren't tyrannical enough.

I legitimately thought this was satire

With the proviso that none of us really know what we're talking about since the facts haven't been established, this appears to be total BS from the standpoint that they are creating this false timeline. 18 months ago, he took 15 boxes. I don't know who knew what were in them and when, or when they tried to get them back. However, it is undisputed that those 15 boxes were returned in January of this year. There are articles about this - it wasn't secret back then.

At some point, the FBI/DOJ was alerted to the fact that he might still be in possession of additional classified documents. It appears this came from the National Archives. I believe that's what the June meeting with the attorneys, the surveillance search warrant, and whatever information they have been gathering from one or more informants is about. It's unknown when they became aware of the nature of those documents, but it's probably within the last 4-6 months and possibly only since around June.

Again - that's based on "facts" in the reporting from various media, if I have it right. So this 18 months BS relates back to boxes he turned over already. Either there were additional boxes or documents removed from the 15 boxes that the DOJ/FBI began looking into at some point earlier this year.

I'm so sick of any topic requiring a 15 minute reset on the facts before an actual discussion/argument can begin...

THIS!

I am already, immediately so exhausted by the Trump drama. We cannot go back to this being a daily thing again.

— Brendan Buck (@BrendanBuck) August 12, 2022

I agree. And yet I am posting about it as much as anyone.

Trump news is basically like a drug addiction. It makes me feel bad. It is bad for me. I know that I'd be better off without it.

But I nonetheless continue to seek it out and consume it.

The only saving grace right now is that while he is in the news, or IS the news, 98% of what I hear/read about him does not involve me having to look at or hear him. It's ABOUT him which is bad enough, but he's not on my screen being televised constantly. You can seek that out, but it's not that hard to avoid almost entirely.

What's annoying is, the Dems have gotten pretty good things done this week. Now it is all drowned out by the Orange Oompa-Loompa. At times, I have almost like this was set up to break this way by Trumpers. They know he only gets more popular when he looks "persecuted."

And the National Archives says: STFU Trump

.@USNatArchives responds to Trump’s unsubstantial statement: pic.twitter.com/lS6ZhGHIkY

— Jacqueline Alemany (@JaxAlemany) August 12, 2022

That's such a bureaucratic librarian answer

SI

This is why I am on Twitter:

JACK THE RIPPER: But what about the OTHER London residents who cut meat with a knife last night?
p.s. Send money!

— Jennifer Bourne (@OtherNamowal) August 12, 2022

So somehow Fox, WSJ and Breitbart all exclusively got the warrant. Without the redaction of the agents involved (DOJ requests this in their motion), which Breitbart duly published. The espionage act is part of the statutes under which evidence is sought.

What are the chances Breitbart realizes they just disclosed the Mar-a-Lago search is part of an Espionage Act investigation pic.twitter.com/RUFbGjTiHr

— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) August 12, 2022

Reading that blog by Breitbart is ... Something.



Meanwhile on Fox one hilarious take essentially amounted to "Trump was too busy with his coup to obey state secrecy laws, please give him a break."

It's never really been tested because no President has been as reckless and careless as Trump, but while it does say the President has declassification authority there is still a process that has to be followed AND any documents must be classified correctly.

So Trump can't just say I declassified those documents even though they're all still marked TS//SCI. This is what the right is going to try to run with but imagine if a President Hillary had fled the White House with boxes and boxes of classified material and just said I magically declassified them even though they still say TS//SCI. I swear I did you're just going to have to believe me. There would have been a firing squad brought to the Clinton home and they would have just taken care of it there.

No doubt. This is all going to the Supreme Court to test the idea that basically the President can do anything he wants. And with this Supreme Court I expect them to say "Yes, as long as he is Republican."

I still get this sinking feeling all of this is still going to be a net-positive for Trump.

sigh

unfortunately, I agree with you here.

Again, I just wish those really angry, pissed off, armed and screaming losers who have their noses buried in trump's ass would just fucking 'make us all pay' already. Just show up or shut up.

Eh...maybe not. They didn't save him from re-election. They might figure a Lawful Evil like DeSantis would be more useful than Trump's Chaotic Evil.

So yeah the DOJ/Garland is going to do nothing about Trump. Glad you guys were right on this. :) (sorry couldn't resist)

You realize they probably made him more powerful?

You say this like they make logic based choices, not cater to the angry mob.

I don't think this SC cares about Trump or the Presidency one bit. Well, other than Clarence Thomas.

What they do what to do is push the country far to the right on social issues which they don't need a republican president to do.

I don't see them saving or helping Trump in any way.

So what? they knew who they were dealing with here-and if he starts a civil war who you are going to blame? Trump or the DOJ?

I think non-Trumpanzees are fed up with him. This though, this should be prison. These are documents that cannot be declassified, Biden as acting president can't even do it.

Most people just want to go about their lives, raise their kids, play their games, watch their sports...Trump has become a vacuum against normalcy.

Fucker needs to be put in prison.

Has anyone on the board had a high level security clearance? I have a friend that currently does, but I don't want to bother him with this question:
The Oval Office is considered a Scif for code-word level information, right? Is there anywhere in the residence that can also be used as a Scif? How about when a president is away from the White House? Do they designate a place as a secured area for those communications? How about on Air Force One? I think I have heard some of this before, but don't remember.

Have we tried giving Trump the Sudetenland, yet?

EDIT: Originally had "Alsace-Lorraine", which doesn't make a lot of sense as a joke

SI

First, I don't get why this matters. Laws are laws and should apply to everyone.

I also don't think this helps him at all. Who sees this and thinks "wow, I didn't like him before but now I do like him"?

The Law and Oder party:

Top comments on Trump forums right now are just trying to ID the specific FBI agents who were part of and signed off on the raid so they can be “helicopter passengers,” a reference to Chilean dictator Augusta Pinochet murdering dissidents by throwing them out of helicopters.

— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) August 12, 2022

Yes yes but I think its called Ukraine now.

I had a TS//SCI clearance but I'm not all that familiar with classified info and the President. My guess, generally speaking, is that when he's acting in his role as the President he can call whatever he wants a SCIF to conduct his duties as President. Air Force One is considered a secured site.

The problem is he's not the President anymore so he's not conducting duties as the President. There's no excuse for those materials to be outside the White House or not in the control of the national archives.

Back the Blue to threatening to kill cops in record time.

A) It doesn't matter. The law is the law, and the DOJ shouldn't be making political considerations in how they enforce it. IF they were, I think the timing of this was really bad. That is how I know the White House wasn't involved. I don't they would have chose this timing.
B) Again, using reason instead of "mob mind" when assessing how people are going to respond. There us a real possibility this turns the momentum from trending Dems (who were pretty fired up after Roe being overturned) to trending GOP as the base has now had gasoline poured on their motivations.

Changing people's minds? No. Midterms are about turn-out. Jim-Bob might not have cared since his Jesus, Donald Trump, is not on the ballot. But now his Jesus is being unfairly persecuted, so he is definitely going to vote and more than once if he can.

Yeah, it would have been more timely to use "Crimea and Ukraine's nuclear weapons". But I went with the Coke Classic of Fascism rather than Coke Zero.

SI

Yeah, I know the last part. I was more wondering what secured location they took thses documents from. Would it have to be the Oval? His office in the residence? Could they have already been at Mar-a-largo? How are things like that filed, so to speak?

Long game is they're trying to goad him into announcing his candidacy for 2024 because they can easily drag this out for two more years, preventing any other Republican from building a proper campaign.

(bonus, if he announces before November, that's worth five points in the upcoming mid-terms - every Democrat gets to run against Trump rather than the designated opponent).

His negatives are so high that he can't win, plus they can find a judge to issue an arrest warrant at any time or find one who says he's ineligible to run. But just about any other Republican probably does win given the usual campaign process. In the end, economics usually carries the vote and the economy isn't doing well.

We're down to scorched earth tactics on both political sides for even the most petty battles. We're not getting civil war. No one aside from a few fringe idiots on either side is even willing to play - and most of them are already elected to office or working for a television "news" network.

When the Ohio nut decided to go suicide-by-cop the other day, the only sympathy he got was from people who are so far out there they couldn't take over a single city block in Seattle or anywhere else, let alone mount a revolution. The average person is far too comfortable to risk anything of value.

All politicians do these days is try and convince us of their importance so they don't have to take on the real issues out there, which require nuance and, well, serving the people.

Trump's a clown. He's always been a clown and he always will be a clown. The problem we have right now is that we don't see that there are close to 535 other clowns in Congress alone. The primary process pretty much guarantees it.

If I post on my fb wall “back the blue” am I for or against the GOP today?


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I don't get what "scorched earth tactic" the Dems are doing. If anything, they've been apathetic about the last 6 years.

You would be an enemy of the GOP today. Might have to wait till they kill an unarmed black man for that to resonate positively with them again.

Heh

I did see the new talking point from think tanks like the Heritage Foundation is that the President doesn't have to declare that something is unclassified, they just have to think it in their head. Not kidding in case anyone was still taking groups like that serious.

Dark Brandon used his thoughts to reclassify, so tough luck, Trump.

I still don't think anything will happen to him. If any of us had done this, we'd be looking at life in prison.

They are probably happy just to get some of those documents back before they were sold for a condo or something.

I'm reading "Trump and His Generals" by Peter Bergen

yes, there was a Scif set up in a tent, in a room, in the Florida house.

Like Grant said, it will drive turn out in the mid terms. As for Trump himself this will just strengthen the perception that the dems are just out to get him and he is being persecuted. His base will always be loyal, but that isnt the 74 million votes he got. People are looking for other reasons to vote republican and forgive themselves because that is better than voting dem. This provides them a narrative.

So if he is found guilty of it all, life in prison, would that be grounds for impeaching the justices he put on the court?

These people think they are being persecuted when Disney casts a black lead for a movie. They're perpetual victims.

What's your solution? Designate some people are above the law so as to not offend people who get offended over everything?

I can't say I agree with the entire premise of this argument at all. This would assume that there's a master plan, being controlled by a leadership group, capable of pulling this off, without any leaks, or anyone else finding out, or blabbing to a journalist. It's rather an argument convenience to explain something that feels better, rather than just the standard timing of all this playing out. I don't think the Dems have been sitting around planning to wait until within 100 days of the midterms or some magical time when trump might decide to jump in. It seems rather fanciful thinking.

Don't forget adding plant-based breakfast items to menus!

If it wasn't this, wouldn't it have been inflation? Or school choice or whatever? Like the action was always going to be the same, the excuse was just going to be different?

SI

If trump shot someone on 5th ave in broad daylight, and was arrested, the narrative would be that the person deserved it and any sort of retribution is just a witch hunt to bring him down. That trump 'knew what he was doing, and it was to save the country' and quite literally, that's all they need right now to believe in that.

You know what? I'm going to go ahead and blame this whole week on PM

This post was like the point in the movie where someone utters a line that tempts fate like "nothing can ruin a day like this" right before it rains or aliens attack

SI

August 12, 2017 – During the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, neo-Nazis and former Ku Klux Klan members carried tiki torches and shouted slogans including “The Jews Will Not Replace Us.” A white nationalist named James Alex Fields Jr. drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing Heather Heyer and injuring 19 others in the process. After the attack and Heyer’s death, Trump he refused to explicitly rebuke the white nationalists. The president placed partial blame for the attack on the counter-protesters, condemning, “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”

August 12, 2019 – The Trump administration significantly weakened the Endangered Species Act, signed in 1973 by Republican Richard Nixon. The adjustment allows economic assessment to factor into the protection of a species.
It also removed the blanket rule that requires the same treatment for threatened species as endangered species.

August 12, 2019 – A federal whistleblower issued a complaint to Senator Richard Burr and Representative Adam Schiff that “the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election.” The bombshell report referred to a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and efforts to restrict access to call records.

August 12, 2020 – Trump repeatedly called Kamala Harris, Biden’s choice of running mate, “nasty.” “She was nasty to a level that was just a horrible thing,” the president said, referring to her questioning of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh during his Senate confirmation hearing. Trump added that Harris “was the meanest, most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the U.S. Senate.”

August 12, 2020 – Trump congratulated Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican congressional candidate from Georgia who voiced her support of the far-right conspiracy theory QAnon. “Marjorie is
strong on everything and never gives up — a real WINNER!” Trump wrote on Twitter. The FBI identified QAnon as a potential domestic terror threat in 2019.

Where did I say they shouldn't have done it? Read the damn thread, I have been slamming Garland for his inaction. I hope Trump rots in a cell the rest of his miserable life, along with the entire family. What I want and what I think are two very different things. My cynical opinion is this makes him stronger. I really hope I am wrong.

And I'm with Lathum. I agree it had to be done. And if anything, the timing proves it wasn't just a political move, because it was a horrible time politically for this to happen.

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Seeing they are going to dust all the documents for prints...

If anyone touched those code-word classified docs without that level of clearance, they are in for some trouble.

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Cool. Like I said. I have a friend who is now NSA. He was a Navy CPO when that existed, and moved over to Computer Warfare as cryptic signaling changed. His first duty station was Naval Security Station D.C. He probably has knowledge, but he is a bit cagy in sharing too much because of the level of security clearance he has is very restrictive.

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I'm starting to think that the classified info was about Israeli nukes and he was sharing/selling/giving that info to the Saudis. I have absolutely zero things to back that statement up, but just a strong gut feel

Sounds like their latest strategy is to claim he had a standing order to declassify any docs he took to a residence and that includes Mar A Lago.

we of course know that is BS and not how it works. One of the biggest problems through out his time is Trump thinks he should be able to do what he wants, or change any process he wants. Obviously he can't, but he frames these things with the assistance of FOX News that he can and his minions go along with it (see Pence certifying the election)

The arguement I see on that is "so he didn't stamp and date it. Are you really going to send a former President to prison for a clerical error?

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There does have to be some reason why the Saudis gave Jared 2 billion.

Nobody sees that if Trump can just think things are de-classified, then Biden can just think-classify them again.

ANd even if they weren't classified, they still belong to the government and Trump can't just take them.

They've already moved the goalposts a dozen times and continue to follow the same playbook.

"The Fbi didn't find anything"

"OK the fbi took some napkins and stuff"

"hey what about Obama and Hillary?"

"if the fbi found anything it was probably planted"

"OK they found documents but Trump declassified them"

"OK so maybe they weren't officially declassified but it's not a big deal. Just a clerical error"

Next is Trump was only trying to sell national secrets because he has to pay for attorneys due to the constant harassment he faces from Dems.

And, of course, Brietbart released the names of the FBI agents involved despite the official court released ones having them redacted, which means Brietbart got their copy from... who else?

Just a moment...

SI

That is exactly why they were given to Brietbart. They are trying to make it dangerous for investigators to do thier job. It is just like Lindsey Graham calling for them to release the affidavit. He knows they can't do that, because that will likely burn the informant that helped with getting the warrant. He is basically interfering with a federal investigation.

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Let's go army of the south, rise up again and show these commie bastards who is boss. It's time to make your move and show this country that you really, really, double secret dare you, mean it this time.

More from the law and order party. This with Boebert's pedophile husband and police looking the other way.

Hear the audio from two 911 calls over confrontation with Lauren Boebert’s husband

Such trailer trash. They got to vote her out but having been out to that area of Colorado a couple of timesI doubt that will happen.

Exactly what I would expect from father and son in that family. Just trash that epitomizes the whole MAGA cult.

This is a feature, not a bug with these people. The poor boy was just riding his 4 wheeler and the whiny neighbor was giving him a hard time for being a kid.

This is good.

Watching some political figures defending trump. pic.twitter.com/OhepvudAIg

— Staff Sergeant Gonell, Aquilino (@SergeantAqGo) August 13, 2022

Things are heating up. Right now, a group of MAGA domestic terrorists has assembled outside the Phoenix FBI office.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/tr...-a-lago-search

Let's say it again... terrorists. Say it all. Day. Long.

Earlier today someone also drove into Barriers at the Capitol and then killed himself.

Meanwhile, Mr "what can i do to help":



And his prospectice head of the CIA who also was assigned by him to be his representative to the national archives:

Patel: He can literally stand over a set documents and say these are now declassified pic.twitter.com/uuqjvmX6xd

— Acyn (@Acyn) August 14, 2022

Fun fact: This is what said person said in June:

and I’m gonna march down there and identify every single document they’ve blocked from being declassified

Seems relevant.

Hmmmmmm....

#Russia's state TV:@Dr_Ariel_Cohen: “We don’t know whether he [Rand Paul] delivered any secret messages from Trump to the Russian side. That is unknown to us.”
The host asks Konstantin Kosachev: “Did he or didn’t he?”
Kosachev, grinning: “It’s known to us, but I won’t tell.” ©️ pic.twitter.com/bajgKdLQeK

— Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews) August 6, 2018

Short explainer on the whole classified/declassified stuff from the NYT:

Should be free to read if i did it right

The most interesting thing there is the fact that it really doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not. They just have to prove they are defense related information that can be harmful to the United States. They actually didn't use anything related to the classification system to get the warrant.

Correct, which is why Rand Paul wants the espionage act abolished. They're coming to accept the fact that this is actually sticking and Trump is in real danger for the first time. So of course they're trying to change the rules.

If I saw the tweet correctly, Reality Winner did 5 years for having a single document under one of the same statutes they cited in the warrant.

A couple of thoughts:

(1) Ben really needed to add a lot more nuanced options in the poll here :-)

(2) I've said for a while that if Trump goes down, it will be slowly and then all at once. That basically if it came, there would be a tipping point over the course of a few days where all of his enablers would realize that the ship was sinking, and they'd abandon him en mass.

I no longer think that this is the case. Enough GOP leaders have reacted to this by continuing to double down with Trump that I now think that he will never be abandoned by enough high level supporters for it to matter.

If he does go down, it will be messy as hell, and it will go on long after he's gone.

“stolen election” must poll exceptionally well for them to keep going back to that well

There are people that will always believe the election was stolen. Some try to push the garbage "proof", but most I know just says it feels like it was. If it is just based on a feeling, how do you argue?

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That's just intellectually lazy. But you can't tell them that without shutting down any kind of discussion. It also doesn't work when you juxtapose them feeling things with them calling out others for being in their feelings. It's a position that refuses to lend itself to discussion or criticism. But I don't know any other way than to call it what it is.

For instance, how do you talk to someone who tells you with a straight face that Trump is the most honest person they've ever come across? These aren't the grifters, the people with an agenda, they're just regular people who for whatever reason have dug a trench so deep they can't see daylight anymore.

"We have lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence." - Rudy Giuliani

From this Sunday's CBS Sunday morning. In part of it, Ted Koppel asks a trolley full of older, white, Southerners what they think about the election and the media.

Fans return to Mayberry, a town that never was - CBS News

I wonder to what extent a lot of these people just can't deal with things. They visit a representation of a town from a 60s tv show to escape to a place and time that may not have ever really existed. Then later on the trolley, you hear their take on news -- where they escape from outlets that tell them things they don't want to deal with to "safer" spots that don't.

And no, no proof will change that. The only thing that will budge them, eventually, is death.

A jillion psych studies have shown that people will simply refuse to believe that they were duped. You will never ever get people to admit "Yeah, I supported Trump, and that was a huge mistake, and I'm sorry."

The best approach, IMO, to try and reduce his support is to give those supporters another lie to believe in. Convince them that they never supported Trump in the first place.

"Of course you were anti-Hillary. And anti-Biden. But you were never really pro-Trump. You were then--and always have been--a true conservative. So you've always been more of a [DeSantis, Pence, whoever] person. The Democrats want to make it out like you were some Trump worshiping rube. But that's just not true. That's another Democrat lie!"

Honestly, if I were trying to reduce his support, that's the message I'd be sending out. I'd just flat out lie and say that he never really had lots of supporters and it is just another Democrat lie that he ever did.

Sounds like what DeSantis is trying to do with FL education. "White people were never really racist."

So if the documents found in Trump's pad were indeed declassified, can I file a FOIA request to view the documents?

I want to know what dirt we have on Macron.

“I didn’t take the documents, but if I did take the documents they weren’t classified, and if they were classified, they were planted, and if they weren’t, I declassified them, and if I didn’t then it’s a hoax, and if it isn’t, then everyone brings home their work from time to time.”

The only thing that ever mattered to many of them is making libs angry.

Arguing in bad faith is the whole point, because they can just change the goal posts at any point and it just makes their opponents angrier and angrier.

Or if you prefer:

Or, more simply, it is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.

I thought for sure I had finally figured out the line between factual tweets and Onion-esque tweets when I saw someone tweet that Kari Lake boasted about Trump and DeSantis's BDE. And then I saw that it was true.

This is why it is so important to persecute and silence Nazis. Or:

Bartender Savagely Kicks A Polite Nazi Customer Out Of His Bar | Bored Panda