Toss in "we don't need another national embarrassment on how Mr. Trump childishly conducts himself in a debate".

I honestly don't think any undecideds will blame Biden for refusing additional debates just as long as Biden continues to reach out to them.

Zoom meeting or bust. Appeal to the American public about the benefits of having a mute button.

SI

I agree. I think if Harris looks good tonight and makes people feel comfortable that she can be president, Biden should straight up dictate the rules and make them agree or cancel the rest.

I hope she wears something sleeveless.

Seems to me there would be lots of logistical ways to virtually remove that risk. Have them come in separate entrances etc. and never be within 20 feet of each other or whatever.

Is there something to this that I missed?

Pence refuses to be in a room if a woman is wearing something that reveals her shoulders. At least that's what I read a while ago.

What would be considered a big game changer that could come out of this debate? Anything? I can't think of how the debate is going to move the needle unless someone comes out drooling, or pulls a gun and shoots the other one.

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Maybe some people that are on the fence regarding Harris? If she comes out and soothes any of their fears, some undecideds may finally go for Bidean/Harris. That's the only thing I can think of, short of Pence coming out gay or like you said, some decides to shoot up the place.

Moderator is letting Pence run over her and any time restraints already.

Has Pence actually answered a question yet?

Moderator is doing a pretty good job. Both have gone over but Pence had one that rambled on too long. Still a much better start the other one.

She keeps on repeating "without interruption" which is great.

The moderator needs to tell Pence to shut up.

I've had enough.

I imagine you also think that Bill O Brian did a pretty good job as head coach and GM.

Kamala, it's not all about you. Answer the question.

Seriously how long does Pence go over time?

Also "stop playing politics with people's lives" Lololol

I can't believe Pence just told her to stop playing politics with peoples lives when his administration has literally made wearing a mask a political issue.

I haven't watched many debates in the past.

Is it typical for them to not answer the questions?

Er ... I live in Atlanta. What's the big deal about a 0-4 start?

I almost forgot that Pence 4 years ago said Trump was hard on Russia. This guy lies as smoothly as any politician I've ever seen.

pretty much. They basically come up with the talking points they want to get across and wedge them in where they can.

Yes.

But still better than the other fiasco.

Pence is fucking repeatedly crashing into a cliff.

Question about the lack of transparency about Trump's health.

Pence: doctors will continue to be transparent.

Touché

These are terrible questions that no politician would answer.

And they really don't have enough time for answers.

yeah.

"hey, have you talked about it the president dies what would happen?"

It is a terrible question with no good answer.

I would have liked Harris to say " Biden rides his bike every day and is in great health so it isnt an issue or concern, unlike trump who we know has Covid"

Great answer but instead Kamala talked about her background.

And yes, agree moderator should do a hard stop for Pence at the second warning.

What's up with Pence's left eye? Is he popping covid live?

So I am slightly surprised but do think Harris is coming slightly ahead after the first three rounds 10-9 o. My card. But Pence, has a cut on his right eye and guess he is a bleeder.

Wow, that exchange. Harris put Pence in his place like a school teacher dealing with an unruly child.

That Pence picture looks like the crying Jordan meme

I think Harris has missed a number of opportunities. This question on climate change has been one of her better answers, IMO.

Pence is coming across to me like a man who doesn't like to be spoken to "like that" by a woman

I like her recapping key points on Joe won't stop fracking, no tax increase on < $400K etc. Continue to recap and summarize.

Pretty sure nobody is voting for or against fracking in this election.

Moderator: How bout that climate change?

Pence: Nah, we're talking about taxes

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Moderator simply won't stop Pence from going over time.

She was saving that line all night. Re: auto industry

Hey you hear that, lungs? HUGE WIN FOR DAIRY!

I can't stand this anymore

Is Pence trying to get progressives on board by talking about Harris' liberal voting record?

Kamala, you need to exceed your time and keep on exceeding your time. That's the only way the moderator will be forced to do something.

Edit: Kamala, get off the China thing. Joe doesn't have a lot to stand on there.

head exploding

It started off back and forth and fairly even but I think Harris has really pulled ahead over the past 20 minutes or so.

Harris is doing a solid job. She just had to reassure people and she's done that. If they talk about health care that'll be a topic in her wheelhouse.

Oh, yeah. Shocked that Pence doesn't really respect women, what with his history and reputation.

I wish the moderator had an air horn.

This is less annoying than Trump's interrupting. But still annoying.

SI

It's a striking thing when your opponent lies so easily. Harris is getting more confident as she moves forward.

Yeah, I am reassured by her one-on-one performance. Good to see her in action.

Pence ain't touching a Roe v Wade question.

Oh yes for sure.

Talking over the moderator over and over isn’t going to help Trump/Pence with women.

This tweet nails it:

“ There is like 400 years of history on that stage. She has to stick to facts (he doesn’t), she has to be polite (he doesn’t), she has to make sure that white people watching don’t take one wrong move as a confirmation of her “otherness.” Pence only has to sit there in a red tie.”

Especially since Harris seems trying to time her answer perfectly just to contrast how awful Pence is going over.

SI

Yeah, Kamala went over just now. Keep at it.

I am a bit behind but Kamala is addressing the female soldier who was killed by ISIS. I think she missed an opportunity to remind people that Bidens sons were in the military and he can feel their pain.

The Abraham Lincoln story... BOOM!!

Kamala should have a better answer on packing SCOTUS.

Lol. Sure Mike. Because you have answered all the questions.

It wasn't even a moderator question! It was his question! He's not the moderator!

Harris and Biden need to keep punting on the packing question. Trump and Pence want to get them to commit - you'll piss someone off if you answer. By not doing so they win.

Exactly

SI

Yeah, she did it again! Keep on going ...

OMG Pence has a bug on his head.

Come up with a non-answer answer. Instead, they are ignoring it completely.

They could just say something like it depends on if the Republicans ram through this justice right before the election.

Flies are attracted to shit

Hahahahaha. The fly is going to win the debate

Kamala, go low and say "Mr. VP, you have a fly on your hair"

That fly is distracting

I think they could day, "we are not for increasing the number of justices in the court, but we are not ruling out any tool to correct injustice."

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"President Trump has black friends..."

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Running out of time? I thought this was supposed to be two hours.

That is a much better answer than just ignoring it.

Does someone keep sneezing in the crowd?

SI

An hour and a half

:rolleyes:

No eyeroll, it's absolutely right. She has to maintain her composure or she will be labeled the "angry black woman."

Even the moderator is cutting Harris off faster than she is Pence.

Let me guess you are white male, like women and are a former enlisted service member oh and a Colts fan?

Pence has a pretty good answer at the end.

(EDIT: Of course, it's easier to say "we all come together" as a white male than as a black female)

SI

Honestly, the only sincere thing I've heard him say all night.

Your point?

Holy shit! Pence is married to Melissa McCarthy?

I'd give Harris the edge here. Pence did a respectable job considering the hand he was dealt, but there's not much you can do with a lot of the work Trump has done. Harris missed some opportunities but landed enough blows that this is unlikely to change anyone's mind,which is a big win for Biden.

This debate was like "Hey, that thing last week was a train wreck so let's make this look like a normal debate", which is basically dodging the hard questions and shoehorning talking points into totally unrelated questions, like a bad job interview.

SI

I definitely don't see a bunch of people jumping ship from Biden/Harris after this debate and really not many from trump/pence either.

The Chairman of CPAC and husband of a WH staffer saying some definitely not racist things.

Pence was steady and strong. Solid performance. Presidential

Harris is like a diversity officer in county government

— Matt Schlapp (@mschlapp) October 8, 2020

I call it a draw or at least not a significant win for either.

Both landed some good jabs, both avoided answering questions they didn't want to answer. I do think Kamala missed opportunities for stronger Trump specific jabs (there's a wealth of material).

Seemed like a safe debate for both of them. At this point in the campaign, a draw helps Biden/Harris as they're just running out the clock. I think this also let people feel comfortable that if something happens to Biden, they're ok with Harris. Pence needed to do something to shake up the race and that's not really in his wheelhouse.

SI

I do think it's concerning that Pence refused to soften Trump's refusal to accept the election results.

At this point, that’s likely all they have left.

Yup! Totally agree. It's basically Biden's and Harris' to lose at this point, in my opinion. Hopefully they don't have Norv Turner working on their campaign. Pence just seems like a wet sock really and trump really hasn't given him much to work with, especially since so many things are very easily refutable.

Point is, I'm guessing you think that racism and sexism don't exist, are overplayed, or have been "solved" because we passed one law that one time and you don't have to deal with it on literally an every day basis so that's good enough for you to write it off.

The fly is going to be the story that lasts longer than anything, isn't it?

(as long as someone doesn't come down with COVID)

SI

FWIW changed from CNN post-debate analysis to Bloomberg after the overused "stunning" comment. CNN should trademark the term if they can since they use it over and over again.

Bloomberg post-debate analysis was much better.

Just told my wife came across as them knowing they are a huge favorite and just don't screw it up

In retrospect, I thought Pence was going to get clobbered because he had to face immediate covid questions, but in actuality, that probably worked to his benefit.

On the other hand, for a campaign almost entirely focused on 'optics' of strength, having a fly land on a old mummy with pinkeye probably isn't a win.