I see the DoJ took that contempt referral for Bannon seriously. :lol:

Jan. 6 Defendant Who Said She's 'Definitely Not Going To Jail' Sentenced To Prison | HuffPost Latest News


Not nearly enough time for this entitles POS.

When Rittenhouse gets acquitted on the murder/attempted murder charges, are we looking at more rioting? How strong do you think the reaction will be, other than just all the MAGA people being super-smug about it?

Maybe I'm not reading the room, but I think it's going to be very limited. I feel like the mood is almost back to hopeless resignation rather than rage with a chance to change things.

SI

I think the reaction will be very strong in some locations and non existent in others. Like SI says, hopeless resignation, but I think by now, the writing is on the wall that this kid is completely and undeniably innocent (in that Wisconsin judge's eyes anyway). I do think it's possibly that the reaction to it will correspond to the level of victory lapping that's done and how long it goes on though.

I've been wondering about this line of defense though, regarding the Grosskreutz confrontation; the idea that Rittenhouse was at that point defending himself and was justified in shooting.

So...say you are an active shooter. You've shot and killed someone. If a "Good Samaritan" -- or a number of them -- comes at you to try to stop you, can you just claim self defense and fire at will, all bets are off? I mean, at that point you are defending yourself, right?

It is a weird situation. If the armed guy had shot Rittenhouse, he most likely would gotten off on self defense. The whole thing is a little crazy.

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That's what makes this case difficult. Based on the scope of this trial he probably should be innocent, but the narrow scope of what he's bring charged with ignores the big picture of the situation. Crossing state lines with a weapon, while underage, to provide security that wasn't asked for puts in you in a situation where conflict is far more likely. At some point peronsal responsibility needs to be taken into account but that's not what's being done here. This is simply "was he justifiably feeling threatened?".

So inner-city shootouts. If you can't prove who started the gunfire, all other things equal everyone walks because it's all self-defense??

Yeah, that'll definitely... hahaha, we know that's not going to happen. Those kids don't look like Rittenhouse, don't have a sympathetic judge, and, I'm guessing, the best lawyer in the county that right wing money can pay for

SI

Reuters unmasks Trump supporters terrifying U.S. election officials

Could also go in the police thread since it seems police are not really interested in these types of criminals.

So having read that...what is their main goal? Is it to put Trump back in the White House permanently? Again, what does that do for them? Do they want minorities will go back to the fields? Do they want women to be quiet, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? Do they want gays to be killed or at least closeted?

What is the end game? What is the vision of these people?

The one is calling for a civil war...against whom? For what? To turn society back into the 1950's? White idyllic society?

I think the bigger driver is that a lot of these people are losers. They lost in life. They made bad decisions and work menial jobs with no future. They want to blame it on liberal society. They want to blame it on migrants or minorities. They want to blame it on LGBT.

They want the world to burn. They want to hole up in their ramshackle communities and force society to the gun.

They believe in the pull of social media to target and destroy any part of civil discourse.

They want you to be as poor and hopeless as them. And if you have any piece of decency to those they target, then you need a bullet in the head like their enemies.

Social media has replaced religion. The truth is many of these so-called Christians or Evangelicals know that their faith based beliefs are eroding in greater society, and if that is truth, then what is the point of being good or moral? The basest instinct is to subject your enemies to the sword.

We're on the cusp of a Reign of Terror. Some if not many of these extremists will try to act out the fantasy of Jan. 6th with bloodshed. They're out for blood and feel justified to do so. If Rittenhouse walks, they'll be even more empowered. What's to stop them? Shame? God? Republicans?

And if there are liberal or moderate hubs, they either intimidate with threats or start hitting soft targets.

We got a guy who lost the election who is a Trumper, who wanted to storm the school board. He's contesting the election as fraudulent because he lost by 10k votes.

If Trump is re-elected, he will not leave office until he dies.

This should be a huge story, but Dems releasing it on a Friday means we'll be past it by Monday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/1...c-covid-521128

And then there's this stupid:


Like, that's not how email works at all. That's not going to actually, you know, delete the email off the server. You know that, right?

SI

Basically forcing the CDC to isolate itself by changing the channels by which it disseminated information so that trump wouldn't look like he was being contradicted. Which of course, allows the WH to have plausible deniability and a reason to punish them if they don't like what they hear, and forces the CDC to take the fall should shit actually make trump look bad.

It's the same pattern that he used over and over again in his business and political life.

This is not normal.

Do you think it really matters? That it would change one vote? People with any kind of sense already know that Trump did everything he could to get in the way of a reasonable response to the virus. And if you don't know that he had no concern over violating the law and common norms after his post-election reaction, this is not going to change your mind.

I am at this point squarely in the opinion that the only chance of Trump or someone very Trumpy not winning in 4 years is some real improvement on peoples quality of life. If we are still looking at high gas prices and soaring inflation while common goods are regularly not available on shelves in the next 2-4 years, we should just be ready for a Republican blood bath.

Does it matter and will it change votes are two different questions. Yes, absolutely to the first. No, to the second. It's important, though, to recognize how the Trump admin cared mostly about politics and made decisions that ended up killing thousands.

I'm talking about whether the story is a Friday dump, or the lead story in the Sunday paper. The reports should be made, the government should try to find ways to prevent it from happening again etc. When the story was reported is not very important.

I think Dems have to realize they are fighting for democracy. They may not win, but they have to realize everything is a messaging fight. Dems are too often fine with a Friday news dump, with the hope that the media will make it a big deal. It never happens, but they keep drinking from the same well.

And this shit should matter, too. It's pretty clear now that the 1/6 insurrection was the last step in a detailed plan to stage a coup.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/memo...ry?id=81134003

dola

This, too.

democrats have some of the worst strategists in the world that they aren’t taking this and telling republicans to publicly renounce trump or they’ll just have kamala harris do the thing trump claims mike pence could have done https://t.co/cETPZfDbvP

— kilgore trout, uatx professor of turnip studies (@KT_So_It_Goes) November 14, 2021

What? The message is supposed to be "we are going to save democracy by destroying democracy'? Yeah, that is not going to work.

I also agree that we are fighting for democracy. But the messaging has to be "Democracy improves your life." People are going to vote for who makes the trains run on time more often than a grand philosophical position.

It must be wild for Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger to be sitting in on these 1/6 committee meetings.

CHAIRMAN: "OK. We just got *even more* highly credible information that paints the GOP in a horrible light and shows that Trump, with GOP support, was trying to overthrow American democracy and replace it with a white nationalist ethnostate.

"Our first question--how can we use this information in a way that makes sure that (1) nothing gets done, (2) the people who did it are never punished, and--most importantly--(3) it hurts us and helps the GOP politically?

"Oh, sorry, Liz and Adam. I keep forgetting that y'all are on this committee. I'm used to talking to only Democrats. But, you know, feel free to jump in if you have any ideas on how to make it less likely that Democrats get elected. That was, is, and will always be our #1 goal as elected Democrats in Washington, and we are happy to hear any ideas you have on that point."

It won't, it'll reinforce the idea that the other side will do exactly what "we're" (as in R's) going to do, so we just have to do it first. It won't change anything. It saves democracy, by destroying it, but the other side is that democracy is destroyed anyway. So it boils down to which side would you rather have in charge. Regular people want "their" side in charge, and the R's are much more inclined to support an authoritarian leader, while D's are much more inclined to defer and hope the process will see things out the right way through the goodness of men. It will take strong people on both sides to avoid what seems to be the inevitable path toward failure.

So, we fight an authoritarian state by creating an authoritarian state? "We don't allow votes to count, but we are nice"? Yeah, that's a hard no dawg.

Yeah there literally is no such thing as 'saving democracy by destroying it'. You're either in favor of saving democracy, or you're not. What this actually would be is 'giving up on democracy without a fight'.

That's exactly my point.

You can message and force the media to ask the GOP tough questions without actually having Harris throw the election. Do you disagree with Trump or do you think Harris can determine the winner of the election doesn't mark the beginning of authoritarian rule.

I must not be communicating well today. My fault. You can't even threaten to have Harris do the things that the right has actually tried, without the right pointing and saying "see! They're doing just what we said they would! They cannot be trusted!" when in fact, they would totally allow that to happen on their own behalf. Should the left decide that yes, indeed they can do that, and they should, because it's the argument, then all you've done is trade one suppressor for another. Neither is correct in this case, however, I get the strong feeling that we're much more likely to see this employed once more, from the right, before it's tried on the left, because the right is more accepting of an authoritarian ruler. And just like Jon, would rather have one, who will suppress the 'enemy' (insert anything you'd like here, from coastal elites, to highly educated to media) and preserve their own favorite way of life, whatever form that might take...for the purpose of preserving their perverted view of democracy.

After looking back at it, I think the rest of us just need to learn to read better :). That happens some times around here, sorry I contributed to it.

Looks like Gosar is going to be stripped of committee assignments and censured.

Who would have known when a guys own siblings openly campaign against him he may not be fit for the gig.

This is so long overdue, the guy is a pariah and embarrassment to this state, outside of his little enclave in the sticks.

But even there some hard core conservatives in his district are not happy with him, while some that cheer harder for him than ever, if you happened to see the piece where they interviewed his constituents.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/17/polit...ing/index.html


QAnon Shaman gets 41 months

Trump is threatening to sue the Pulitzer Prize.

I am so worried he might not get his special diet.

Like the actual prize?

I guess that feels right. Not sure if he got violent or anything, but if he didn't, that seems fair.

He wouldn't have gotten the leniency if he was another race/ethnicity, but over 3 years in prison is a lot.

Rainmaker is wrong again

Hey, at least someone is going to jail.

Continue on with your moronic economic takes from Fox News that get debunked in minutes.

This question is for Jon. Not sure if he comes in here or not, but it didn't seem worth starting a new thread on.

Jon--you've pointed out that unlike pretty much all of us on this board, you actually know a lot of Trump supporters and have insights into the way they really think. Which makes you one of the only people I know who can give an insightful answer to this question.

I was driving my son to a camping trip a couple weekends ago, so I was going through rural NC/Trump country. And while there were a few Fuck Joe Biden signs, thin blue line flags, etc., the majority of political signage was Trump and/or Trump 2024 specific. Which got me wondering, what would Trump supporters do if he passed away early next year? On the one hand, their support seems to be very Trump specific. He's not a symbol. They support Trump. And if he goes away, all bets are off.

On the other hand, it seems unlikely that someone engaged enough to be putting up 2024 election signs in 2021 is going to just go back to fishing if Trump goes away.

tl;dr If Trump goes away, what do Trump supporters end up doing over the short/medium term?

I hope that scenario plays out

A lot of the trump organization and the trump fellowship behaves like a gang, or organized crime group. If the the head were to suddenly be removed from it, a battle for the remaining support would happen. You might see some fracturing of it, you might see someone else quickly anointed as the true successor, but what you won't see, is it go away.

If that happens, no matter what the real cause, he will have been assassinated. I've often thought the same if Covid had killed him. It wouldn't have been covid but a plot against America, taking the greatest leader in American history.

It's scary thinking about how those folks will react when he does die.

That is really a good question, and one I have pondered often. It does seem like most of the Trump supporters I know are Trump-only. Many are not even that politically engaged other than anything liberals want is bad, and even if what they want seems good it is still bad. They don't really trust anyone other than Trump, so when Trump is gone, IDK? My best guess is Don Jr. He has the best chance of keeping their allegiance.

You may want to look up the Mongol successor states after the death of Ghengis Khan.

See, this is why we need Jon. We're here speculating about the Mongol successor states. We need someone who actually knows and understands some Trump supporters to give us the real scoop :-)

I think the folks you are talking about, of which there are also many in West Virginia, will consolidate around Don Jr. He is ambitious and, similarly to Donald, a bomb thrower that knows how to speak to and mobilize folks that are not classically conservative. Around here, I feel like a lot of the people that are apt to still fly their Trump flags do not like outsiders interfering in their lives or telling them how they should feel about issues that are largely outside of their immediate concern.

The problem Don Jr. will have is that the there are plenty of smarter, more hard-working, and more well educated politicians that have been biding their time and I don't think people like Rick Scott and Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz will just concede the next 8-10 years to him without putting up some resistance. And given how fragile the Trumps' egos are, I can easily see him not wanting to risk losing or looking bad, so he may try to further split the party or, more likely, prefer to be a power broker that continues to campaign, raise money, and earn a living traveling around the country being adored without actually having to do the heavy lifting of governing.

I think an interesting sideshow that seems to be developing is the possibility of seeing a non-Trump conservative or conservatives like Cheney or Kinzinger or Flake run for president (without challenging the GOP congressional races) in order to siphon enough votes to sway the presidency away from Trump or Jr. They probably couldn't win, but they really have nothing to lose with their futures, since all but a handful of elected GOPers have allowed Trump to go scorched Earth on them.

The Trumpers I know are buying more of the message, not the messenger. They are buying on folks like Gosar, Boebert, Greene, Desantis, and other people just spouting the same thing.

None of Trump's kids have the charisma to be Trump the second or his political chops. Don Jr can try, but too many of the good ol' boys who love Trump for his larger than life, overcompensating, bully personality will see Don Jr as that kid who they stuffed in the locker at school. Ivanka's a woman so that's right out. And Eric is dumb enough to eat paste and would get destroyed politically.

It'll be whoever fashions themself as the more competent Trump-lite, who still mostly says the quiet part loud but not as often to turn off a full 50% of the electorate. So far, DeSantis is winning that race but it's still early and has a lot to do with how long Trump lives.

SI

Trump at least had a story. It wasn't true, but people believed it. He billed himself as this self-made tycoon who understood business better than anyone else. Brilliant self-marketer.

What is Don Jr's narrative? Trust fund baby? Has he done anything in his life besides appear on the Apprentice a few times? Ivanka would have had the best chance since she sort of ran her own business and seemed more involved with the Trump Organization. But she's a woman and that's not happening these days.

Again, in my opinion you guys are overthinking it. I promise you, the average MAGA supporter is not thinking about much at all. The criteria is simple: "Will Don Jr. make liberals cry? Yes? Then I will vote for him."

14 days lol

The thread is quite a journey. Defense attorney nightmare to have the defendant get up to speak at sentencing and go on a crazy rant that shows zero remorse. But it seems to have paid off.

Jan. 6 defendant John Lolos is going off on a rant about voter fraud during his sentencing. pic.twitter.com/nq5itcQ0IB

— Ryan J. Reilly (@ryanjreilly) November 19, 2021

I agree with GD, although I'd add the corollary that making libs cry is primarily for entertainment purposes and secondarily about the actual policies.

The left has historically owned political entertainment, but the manner in which they did so was primarily through observational humor. The right finally figured out that the way to counter that is to make politics itself the entertainment. Forget using or creating a conservative "Hollywood" to produce fake newscasts that make fun of libs or skits or movies - take it directly to the politicians. Make them and their activities the entertainment. This is why so many of the worst offenders say nothing of substance, they just use their positions to create social media and AV bites that "own" the other side.

The perfect culmination of this approach would be making Trump the speaker of the house - not so much because of what he could do, but because of the entertainment value of the irony and revenge fantasies it brings with it. Nevermind turning American democracy on its head. This is about the attach rate for political donations in service of providing these people with entertainment.

I think Don Jr. is missing too much confidence to take the Trump mantle. The dude takes too many losses personally and then practically tears up trying to paint himself the victim, compared to Trump who takes all the losses personally, paints himself as the victim, but then crucially always suggests that he is too powerful to care, or that revenge/vindication is right around the corner. Don Sr. was somehow always able to conflate his own concerns with those of his base, and I don't know that Jr. has shown that ability.

I joked about the Mongols, but I think the basic issue is the same. Nobody understands and appeals to MAGA the way Trump does. When he dies, there will be any number of people that claim the mantle for themselves, but none of them will have the pull of Trump and the supporters will split into a few different camps and some just won't vote again until they find the next Trump.

Trump has an incredible advantage now in that every other GOP pol is scared of him, but the group that comes next won't have that advantage. Nobody is scared of Don Jr. or DeSantis or Jordan, etc. They'll all be willing to fight for the kingdom.

I dismissed the thought of him having much success if he runs, but the more I think about it the scarier a Pence run would be for Trump. Yes, he's hated by the MAGA crowd and he isn't pulling them, but he could pull enough support to make if really difficult for Trump and if he ran a pull no punches campaign he could be the guy that makes Trump as unelectable as he possibly could be considering he's always going to have his base.

I expect Cheney to run and she'll just make it more likely for a Dem to lose.

Because there will be a segment of Dems that vote for her?

I would think right leaning independents who would otherwise have voted Dem over Trump

Very similar to a cult leader. There are lots of people who will try to emulate, but that leader can't be replaced.

Cheney wouldn't break single digits in a Republican Primary. Once the party went authoritarian/fascist, her base dwindled to nothing. She won't even keep her house seat in another year.

The moderate Republican days are over. If it wasn't clear enough after 2016 when Jeb, Christie, and others got trounced, it should be clear now when they are purging the party of anyone who still supports democracy and basic rule of law.

This. The Bill Kristol like Republicans that won't vote for Trump but would be thrilled to have a GOP option rather than vote for a Dem.

Those Republicans likely don't exist anymore. And is she running as an independent in this scenario?

But would these people have voted Dem otherwise?

Hell, prior to this last election, as an independent I had voted 60/40 republican because they were generally the more moderate options. Going forward I will vote straight Dem until the GOP purges these fucking idiots from their ranks, which I don't see any time soon, if at all.

And honestly, I really wish the Libertarian party was a more viable option, as they match my political ideology much more than either Dems or Republicans.

Yeah. I don't care about her in a GOP primary.

It's going to be another close election and anyone siphoning votes from the anti-Trump coalition is a threat.

This. It's gone beyond Trump at at this point. You can see it in the vaccine reaction. Once people decided they were against that - and many other things, it's just a stand-in at a certain level - they were against it no matter what Trump said about it or what other elected GOPs said about it. There's multiple facets to Trumpism, but the conspiratorial, Qanon side isn't going to just go fishing once Trump is gone.

I agree with JPhillips that nobody will be able to tap into Trump's base the way he did, but at the same time nobody will be able to get broad Republican support who doesn't try and pretty much sound the same notes. I expect us to get various versions of Trump Lite until some new consensus emerges. The question is how much that hurts the right overall politically. It will hurt some, but not that much is my quite possibly wrong prediction. I really do think the unifying principle has gone beyond Trump, and 'make libs cry' is a big part of it but not all of it - i.e. some of the Q folks are apolitical, some are convinced all politicians suck but they think there's a slower decline if liberals aren't in power, there's a whole raft of elements there.

This is very true. At a recent rally, the crowd booed Trump when he bragged about developing the vaccine. The next day he started selling anti-vax t-shirts on his site.

Trump is clearly the most influential voice and he has given permission to people to do things that were once socially unacceptable. But he is starting to see the limitations in his popularity and is at their mercy on many issues.

Parnell seems to be out of the Ohio Senate race after losing custody of his kids. Seems a bit premature as he had Trump's endorsement.

I mean, he was accused of abusing his wife. I figured that is good for a 10 point bump in the current GOP primary.

PA Senate.

Ohio is Mandel, Vance, and the guy that wants everyone to know Mandel is Jewish.

Which is the one that wants to shift to a theocracy?

Maybe there is more coming out that we don't know about with Parnell. But as GrantDawg said, I'd almost consider those revelations a positive for him in a GOP primary.

That's a tough question. Mandel, definitely. Vance, probably. Other guy, yes, but not for Jews.

I find it interesting that Socialism isn't as scary of a word as it was a few years ago so the right has been trying to rebrand left ideologies as Marxism now.

Video court exhibit released by US Justice Dept shows what happens as police tried to protect a closing door at US Capitol complex on Jan 6 ===> pic.twitter.com/PKHivMUHwN

— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) November 22, 2021

I just got put in twitter jail for a week for saying "white trash is gonna white trash" but Madison Cawthorn can put out videos literally calling for violence. Yet the right scream about being censored.

I guess you can now scream about being censored. Call your favorite tv channel and get some air time.

I hear there's a new social media platform for people tired of being censored. :D

Twitter is weird. I don't post on it, just follow some news and sports accounts. But it constantly wants me to follow Andy Ngo. It's always the top suggestion even though I X it. He seems to pop up regularly in trending tweets besides me always clicking the "Not Interested" option. I even blocked the account because it would always pop up high in searches. But for some reason their algorithm really wants me to see Andy Ngo content.

It is your destiny.

I guess I am just not that controversial on twitter. I am pretty active, but have never been banned. I have been blocked a couple of times according to some app, but I don't know by who. No one I cared about.


LOL, I just checked who I blocked, and I have blocked Skip Bayless for some reason. I'm probably better off because of it.

You know you are. I know you are. That should be all the reinforcement you need.

So in other words, trying to do the same thing Iran, Russia and China have done, very effectively to us the last 4+ years

Frustrated with CIA, Trump administration turned to Pentagon for shadow war with Iran

Interesting that he only picked Iran, but as typical with bullies you go after those weaker than you, that don't scare you.

So I guess Mike Lindell's people have caught on that the voting machines aren't connected to the internet because now his people are claiming these machines can be hacked through their power cords.

Sorta like the guy who claimed he could control an airplane by hacking into the entertainment system?

That one at least has some basis in reality. Sometimes getting a foothold on something minor like an entertainment system that is connected to a network can lead to getting access to more important stuff. But through the power cord is pretty hilarious.

Airgaps, man

SI

This Jonathan Karl interview is crazy if what I'm reading is accurate. I mean, normal Trump behavior, but holy shit this guy...

Add Doctor Oz to the list of morons attempting to run for public office. PA US Senate. GOP of course!

Not terribly surprising but Conley should lose his medical license.

Trump tested positive for Covid few days before Biden debate, chief of staff says in new book | Donald Trump | The Guardian

Paging Merrick Garland, please do your fucking job.

I'm not sure whats more amazing, the way he effortlessly incriminates himself regularly or the fact nothing is ever done about it.

I guess the one positive from having Trump around is it blows the lid off what many of us have known. Laws just don't apply to certain people. Usually those people will at least pretend they do, but Trump just cuts to the chase and admits to crimes because he knows he's above the law.

Sadly, I think that the 1/6 terrorist attacks will end up falling into the same problem that a lot of Trump malfeasance falls into--there will end up being so many individual horrible things that happened that they all end up crowding each other out for attention, and, paradoxically, it will all seem less bad than if there had been just one single horrible act.

Steve Bannon's trial for contempt has been set... for July. Nothing like speedy justice. We basically have no congressional oversight anymore.

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And that's Congress' fault. Once they referred it to the executive branch for prosecution, it was over. Anyone with a calendar could see that that was just a look tough without being tough move.

If they cared about doing something, as opposed to making it look like they were doing something, Bannon would be sitting in a cell in the basement of the Capitol as we speak.

No need for liberal public education - just shut it down and pay to send your kids to Christian indoctrination schools if they want to learn anything.

Gov-hopeful David Perdue has proposed eliminating GA's income tax, ~$14 billion in revenue.

How could the state afford that?

Two options, the House budget chairman tells @jsalzerajc:
- eliminate K-12 education
- charge a 17% state sales tax rate#gapol https://t.co/Rt4vYh4wqa

— Emma Hurt (@Emma_Hurt) December 8, 2021

This is just pretty dumb by Perdue. If there is one thing that is really popular is K-12 education. Sure you have some wingnuts who are like I'll just send my kid to private school or I just homeschool my kids, but the vast majority of even Republicans are kinda really wanting K-12 school.

Hell, this may tank him with all the people who are really into big time High School football.