Realistically, I'm looking at more of a retirement situation. I've got too good a job and one that requires a license, so even moving states can be tricky. But within the next decade, I'll hopefully be in a position where I can cash out on the business I'm helping to build and perhaps have a bit of freedom to seriously make such a move. I don't know that the wife would be happy about being too far away from the kids, but we'll see where things stand 5 or so years from now.

Likely a combo of all three.

They didn't want to be labeled as racist pieces of shit for the rest of their lives even though they are.

And I still want to live abroad, but I'm still failing at life, so it looks like me and this stupid country are stuck with each other.

Michigan's Wayne county certified the vote. Yet they are going to audit it. HOw about an audit in....ANY red state. fuck you republicans

Same same.

Who had "start a war with Iran?" Security officials worry Israel and Saudi Arabia may see the end of Trump as their last chance to go to war with Iran

I don't know if anyone has been following some of the twitter threads doing real-time updates of the some of the Trump court cases, but yesterday's PA hearing that Guiliani ran was a doozy. My favorite moment was when the judge asked him what standard of review he was arguing the court to apply, and he said "the normal one." Judge said, "You want me to apply strict scrutiny." Rudy says, "No, normal scrutiny."

What a clown.

And by the way, if you need more facts to combat the conspiracy theories of your friends and loved ones, here's a fun fact:

Trump and Republican conspiracy theorists spewing nonsense about Dominion voting systems always ignore that it was Republicans who put in Dominion in GA. Dems opposed it!

So GOP stole it from themselves?

It's nonsense even on its own terms https://t.co/pci88UEpcb

— Matthew Sheffield (@mattsheffield) November 18, 2020

The opacity bit was good, too.

Hilariously, McEnany went on Hannity to brag about the Wayne County refusal to certify, only for them to change their minds and certify while she was on the show.

Also, Hannity heard that Giuliani was brilliant in court, so it must be true.

Which town out of interest?

So unless we have safeguards in place I fear our republic will eventually have a smarter Trump who understands the art of being subtle.

But, the paradox of the Trump supporter is that they love that Trump is not subtle.

I would be surprised if Giuliani actually found his way to the right courtroom.

The President is on a roll: his last 10 consecutive Tweets have Twitter disclaimers on them. New record! Bigly!

Cobham in Surrey

It's incredible how bad it's gotten with Trump that people are thinking, well Boris ain't that bad :D

Boris is a pompous arrogant ass and his approach to Brexit is taking the UK down a very dangerous path, but he’s not Trump. He’s actually a smart politician under the external bumbling colonial visage and I don’t think he’d stoop anywhere near as low as Trump has over the last month. And the Farage idiots in the UK are probably about a tenth of the people who openly support MAGA in the US.

Even post Brexit UK isn’t looking too bad to me right now, although I’m still holding out for Switzerland long term :D

Right, that's my point. Pre-Trump, most people would look at Boris's UK and say... nope. Now people are like, yeah that seems ok.

From America's mayor post-9/11 to GOP lock for 2008 nomination to Trump's attack dog to Trump's lap dog who is going to take the fall for these idiotic court cases

SI

I have been saying this all along. It makes no sense. It is not only Georgia, but most of the disputed states that use Dominion, the choice was made by Republicans.

Very nice area - hope it was a well paid job!

You are still treating this too close to normal/assigning normalcy as a baseline to behaviour. They are not alleging the election had faults, they are alleging there was large scale fraud by manipulation. They are using 'security' and the few actual mistakes/screwups that were noticed and corrected as 'proof' that it could be rigged, also use potential dangers (that are guarded against by procedure) as 'proof' that even more problems are lurking out there. That's the play here.

Yup - we're heading to a post truth society, and it's not like the Trump circle has tried to hide it. That was the whole point of #fakenews and everything since then has just been building to this inevitable point.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

We've been heading towards a post-truth society for several decades. This is just the next link in the chain, and it won't be the last.

This is some next level embarrassing lawyering. Just a joke.

The Trump campaign's proposal--literally I am not making this up--is that *THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN* will obtain and count all or a subset of the Pennsylvania mail ballot envelopes and, based on the formula in footnote 3, let the judge know if he should declare them the winner. pic.twitter.com/3VI5uG26Gb

— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) November 18, 2020

How about his lawyers going full-on Trump and dismissing a case by flat-out lying that they're dismissing because Wayne County refused to certify the election results (which they actually did certify)? This is just to save face by pushing a falsehood as justification for dismissal (not, like, ya know, they had to dismiss a losing case).

These attorneys need to be held accountable. It's bad enough Trump and others are pushing this, but lawyers are held to a different standard by courts. Unless they're not held to any standard at all.

Non-lawyer followers: this litigation (in all the states) is truly blowing my mind. It's as if you're playing chess and your opponent lets off a whoopie cushion, throws a Zebra Cake on the board, and then runs off without pants and says they won. I don't know what else to say.

— Raffi Melkonian (@RMFifthCircuit) November 19, 2020

So the Wayne County canvassers that didn't certify and then did certify were called by the President and now want to rescind their votes to certify.

And the GOP is fully supportive.

The tactic seem to be just barf out enough stuff to smokescreen your legion of idiot voters into re-posting it on Facebook and advancing your ruse. It works awfully well. The depths...

I wonder how the poll would go if asked today... now that we've seen the contempt for democracy and rule of law already on display... I man we all knew it was there but... ugh

In 2016, he said he'd do exactly what he's doing right now if he lost. When someone tells you who they are...

(Dola: To be fair, it's certainly worse now that he took over the party and they feel a political need to kowtow to him. I'm guessing if he'd lost in 2016, he'd have significantly less R support.)

I think at this point, I'd like to see the Biden campaign take some legal action of their own say against the employee who won't sign off on the transition papers or countersuits on the lawsuits currently on going. Maybe some pre-emptive action on electors not abiding by the law in places like PA, or threatening not to certify their electors results

I don't think Biden fighting back right now is the right call. All that does is get his base more excited and gives Trump more ammo to drag things out. It's an awful situation but the best play IMO is to let the Trump campaign starve itself out in the courts.

The fact that Biden hasn't done anything also tells me he's hearing the right things privately from the GOP.

I suspect there are a lot of people feeding the Biden camp intel because they want to keep their positions post Trump.

Yes, letting Trump fail about, lose all the court cases, have judges basically say they have no arguments just names Trump look futile and impotent.

Keep doing that and acting like you are a President-elect and have press briefings on Covid, etc. That quiet confidence compared to an Administration that is going nuts is the best thing right now.

Not to mention there isn't any thing he can really sue on. The transition people don't have to do anything until the EC votes.

I can't believe he actually called her to try and get her to change. This fucker needs to be in jail.

More Michigan news: Lawmakers are flying into DC to meet with President Trump tomorrow, at his request.

— Amy Gardner (@AmyEGardner) November 19, 2020

Very fine, very cool

A failed coup attempt is still a very bad thing.

I feel very sorry for the people who believe the bullshit we just heard. There are a lot of broken people who are being lied to and many of them want to believe the lie because their religion has become politics and they cannot believe their god is abandoning them.

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) November 19, 2020

The beatification of Trump was just the cherry on the top of this movement that is still hard to wrap my head around. That THIS is the guy, the savior, the Christian icon, maybe even a prophet. The far right went about it wrong for so long, trying to push actual conservative religious leaders. What they needed was a sexual deviant, a multi time-divorced, illegal-immigrant employing, elite liberal hobnobber, pro-choice, celebrity, gay-tolerant Russia-lover and adulterer. He is the one who they have followed. He is the one the Lord has sent. I mean, I guess people were skeptical of Jesus too. But this is ridiculous.

He is literally bullying people to do what he wants and he's been doing that for 4 years. I have no idea why it works and I have no idea why they are afraid of this turd. Also Mitch seems to have the same ability...toforce people to do his bidding.

...says the guy who still voted for Trump.

Because not a single one of them could survive a primary if Trump went against them. It is purely about fear of losing power.

But that's just not true

Is this supposed hot mic video about Rudy’s hair dye real???

Yes it is. I am willing to put money right now on the fact that both Governor Kemp and Brad Raffensperger are primaried by Trump approved candidates in two years, and they will lose. There is no Republican party, only the Trump party.

Why does someone with so little hair need to use hair dye?

I mean that's how they want it to worek and some people DO think that way I'm not arguing there. But it's all a perception. If people just say "no fuck you" the power is gone and they move on to the next thing or person

Right. It wasn't even someone like Huckabee, who is odious, but seems to be a person of faith in his personal life and choices (to an extent). It was someone who was clearly someone who hadn't stepped foot in a church aside from a wedding or funeral in decades until he started campaigning. Someone who was known for being a partier, philanderer, cheat.

But, hey, Joe's a pro-choice Catholic so he's worse than Trump

SI

^

I just don't understand how intelligent people go into this kind of simplistic single-factor tunnel. Who calls Trump a 'Christian icon'? Seriously just look at what the evangelical leaders who support him have said. I'm still looking for one who didn't say 'Trump's an ass but it's about the policy but not the person' in some form or another.

This idea that they supported Trump because they like the sexual deviancy, adultery, celebrity etc - what basis is there for it?

The Trump Prophecy - Wikipedia

A third of Americans believe that God chose Trump.

About a third of Americans say Trump’s election was God’s will | Pew Research Center

I could cite a billion links like these but here's a couple that took me 5 seconds:

Fulfillment of prophecy? Yes, some evangelicals really do believe Trump is the "chosen one" | Salon.com

Paula White Talks God Raising Up Trump, Christian Remnant on Jim Bakker Show - The Christian Post

Pat Robertson: Trump will win, followed by war on Israel and the end of times - Israel News - Haaretz.com

Minister Prophesies Trump Comeback, Says 'God Hates' Biden Support of Equality Act, Abortion Rights

‘Prophecy voters’ forming core of Trump’s evangelical base | ReligionWatch | An Online Publication of Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion

He is a literal Christian icon and prophet to these people, sent by god to lead us

Edit: They're not voting for him because he's a liberal sexual pro-choice deviant (now successfully playing a fictional character of a conservative presidential figure), they're voting for him despite those things because they believe he is a prophet sent from God to restore the Christian white man's position in America before the end times. When you're chosen by god to lead, it doesn't matter as much if you have a decades-long public stance of being pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, etc.

Right. This isn't some sort of secret. Plenty of people, including BIG time pastors, believe Trump was chosen by God in a way that, say, Obama was not.

One thing that has come into focus for the first time for many folks is that much of the smoothness of our early transition process is tradition-based, and as such is nearly 100% dependent upon having good-faith actors in place. We had none of these nonsense from the Carter and Bush administrations when they lost after one term, nor did we from Clinton/GWB/Obama when the other Party won after their second terms.

The people you are talking about say crazy things like that in all situations though. There's an aspect of what is hilariously termed Christianity which finds demons under every rock, unquestionable divine intervention in whether or not they get a flat tire, etc. I mean here's some saying similar things about Bush:

God intervened to re-elect President Bush; George W. Bush and evangelicals; divine intervention in elections - Beliefnet

Robertson Says God Told Him Bush Will Win Reelection In A 'Blowout' | Americans United for Separation of Church and State

That kind of thing isn't new or Trump-specific. Meanwhile Dobson, Rosenberg, MacArthur, Grudem, on and on all cite the justification I described.


Yes on the first part, no on the second except for the extremists - which it pays no value to heed. I mean, there was a local pastor who tried to convince me and my father that MLK was a communist many years ago, and these people belong in the same category. That doesn't mean he was representative of Christianity or conservative evangelicalism as a whole (he wasn't, and isn't) or that there was some big political movement that thought as he did that anything more liberal than literal Puritanism enforced from Washington was a sign of the end times.

You can find extreme views anywhere, but when you ask people why they voted for Trump it's consistently been a combination of policy and his combative, take-no-prisoners leadership style that I've seen over and over again.

I personally think it goes a lot deeper with Trump, but that's not something I could prove to anyone who disagrees.

But there's certainly something different about using this rhetoric to describe a conservative Christian republican like Bush v. using it to elevate Trump. I kind of get, at some level, prophecies about Christian religious and political leaders. Trump had no conservative or religious credentials, and he outwardly lived a life contrary to those things. He was pro-choice for decades before he decided to become a demagogue and was chosen to be the next prophet.

All that tells me is they hold just as fast to the idea of policy over the person as the rest of the country does.

At this point, my money is on Option 3 + resignation between 12/14 and 1/20.

I don't think so. He's going to make things as difficult for Biden as he can, starting as many fires and putting them behind the 8 ball wherever possible. In addition to all of his other faults, he's definitely that kind of petty bastard, even if the country burns (or gets infected) just to satisfy his ego and need for revenge.

I'm curious how long his patience runs out. He keeps losing so badly in court and I have to think that costs money. If his grift of "give to my legal fund so I can pay off my personal debts" is actually a money loser, that may push him to stop sooner. Then again, I think he's so insulated from the day to day ops and has so many yes men and grifters around him that they'll just tell him he's making money even if he's losing it.

Then again, it's really likely that he's just doing this out of pure old spite as that seems to be his dominant emotion. And, if that's the case, he'll hold on until someone he can't fire forces him to stop (or informs him that he needs to get to a non-extradition country quickly as it's almost January 20th)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/polit...ion/index.html



SI

Hopefully, this isn't what happens next.

What would you say if you saw it in another country? https://t.co/U1DLfjin3G The madness Trump has started to unleash. pic.twitter.com/AmPpNqkn0K

— Brendan Nyhan (@BrendanNyhan) November 20, 2020

Love to see these militiamen go up against a drone.

I remember in the mid-late 90s, there was a big "militia" (no, getting together with your white supremacist buddies to shoot stuff and talk about overthrowing the government does not make you a militia) scare in this country, too. Hopefully this mostly dies out like that one

SI

Calling your town "Sundown" is maybe a bit too on the nose.

Part of me does want to see these guys try something just to get smacked down and removed from the bloodstream. I'm not sure how they will be otherwise. But, that's also unfortunately not a great solution.

Trump and Rudi would both look better with regular, balding, grey, old-man hair. I don't understand the shame in your hair when you're pushing 80.

I think they are just about giving up any legal fight. They are instead going to push hard for state legislatures to send their own electors. That is where the court battle is going to come, and they think the Supreme Court will go along with it. Michigan is the first go. If Trump fails to convince them to do it, then he might actually be done.

I don't wish death on anybody.....but, yeah. What is actually more likely is these guys getting arrested just like their Michigan brethren. There is going to be more of these groups coming up with crazy schemes that will get halted by arrests. They are in general too stupid not to get caught in the planning. This going to be like the Klan in the 60's-70's when it was originally rolled up. Ebery other person in every meeting will turn informant.

Michigan won't work. Neither will most states. Michigan, Pennsylvania and others actually have systems in place to prevent what Trump is attempting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/o...-election.html

The fastest way for this to end would be Collins going to McConnell and telling him to end it or she's switching parties.

I needed a good laugh today...

Yeah, I don't really get the end game here unless this is totally for the theater of making cultists for life and stringing this out as long as possible. He wouldn't push this hard if it wasn't true!

Welp. Thanks for the frequent flyer miles?

WASHINGTON (AP) — After Trump meeting, Michigan GOP lawmakers say they're not aware of any info that would change Biden's victory in state.

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) November 20, 2020

So sorry, another L!

JUST IN After daylong trial in final election challenge, Maricopa County judge tells both sides she'll toss out lawsuit 'with prejudice.' Meantime, Maricopa County Board will certify results within the hour. It is over. #12News https://t.co/dIspu4TLRd

— Brahm Resnik (@brahmresnik) November 21, 2020

what does with prejudiced mean exactly?

They can't file the complaint again. Without prejudice means they can refile the complaint to "fix" whatever the court found was wrong with it.

I mean, look at this shit. This is embarrassing. The lawyers are just terrible, it's so obvious this is just done to stall and for political theater so Trump can continue to tweet and Rudy can leak hair dye in front of cameras. Thankfully so far the judges - even the ones appointed by Trump - have done their damn jobs.

Yesterday @kayleighmcenany and @RudyGiuliani were peddling a silly story.

Here’s a supercut of an Arizona judge examining the affidavit collection process used by the Trump campaign.

It yielded “lies and spam." he decided - & disallowed the affidavits...pic.twitter.com/lY9PW0CJmo

— Rex Chapman���� (@RexChapman) November 21, 2020

So at what point can the lawyers representing them be held accountable for bringing these frivolous lawsuits? Is there no repercussions for either the attorneys or the Trump campaign?

Federal rule 11(b), typically mimicked by similar state rules, is the mechanism by which attorneys can be held responsible for filing frivolous lawsuits. It's rarely used to begin with, so I don't think there's a chance in hell of it being used here (even though it certainly merits close review).

These are the standards:

Here's another one. I assume these otherwise pretty well-regarded attorneys got paid handsomely to trash their reputations.

This, from the Georgia federal district court order denying the request for a TRO in Lin Wood's election lawsuit, is not something any lawyer wants to see in a court order. @RMFifthCircuit @Popehat @rickhasen pic.twitter.com/PaqilWCsg5

— Sean Hecht (@seanhecht) November 21, 2020

Everything Trump files is....*puts on sun glasses*...with prejudice. WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Lathum, they did in at least one case in Arizona allow the SOS office to recoup legal fees. That is a pretty good slap.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

On the one hand, the GOP further radicalizing is bad, but on the other hand, it's quite satisfying watching the leopards eat Brian Kemp's face.

Although this was written in 1787, this excerpt from "An Old Whig's" essay from The New-York Journal strikes home today.

This is fine:

Nothing says “man of the people” like @MI_Republicans leadership downing a $495 bottle of 2000 Dom Perignon P2 at the Trump hotel after a White House meeting to try and disenfranchise Michiganders. https://t.co/hYwSea9mER pic.twitter.com/VPIZGjIUil

— Ray Wert (@raywert) November 21, 2020

But that's directed at the plaintiff, not the attorneys.

I saw some NJ Rep filed Bar complaints against Rudy and a dozen other Trump lawyers in 20+ states. I bet they don't go anywhere.

All of them should be tried for sedition

The interesting thing on this one is that this is just a straight claim the the Pennsylvania law from last year that allowed no excuse mail-in ballots is unconstitutional by the Pennsylvania constitution. They are trying to throw out the whole election in affect.

Remember the guys partying in the Trump hotel who said the President didn't ask them to stop the certification in Michigan? Yeah:

Republican leaders ask Michigan election board to delay certification of results, in latest GOP effort to cast doubt on the vote, via @RubleKB and @fahrenthold https://t.co/tUJ3eKluES

— Matea Gold (@mateagold) November 21, 2020

Ironically, they seem to be bent on doing more than I expect any Democrat to do to ensure I vote Democrat going forward. So long as they support this nonsense, it's going to be an easy choice.

The PA claim seems like it's too late, right? You can't play a whole game under a set of rules, lose, then complain the rules were unfair. You have to litigate the rules ahead of time

I would think so, but I am far from a lawyer. I will say reading the complaint, it was much better the Trump teams complaints. Plus it is a clear argument on law, noit throwing rumors at the wall.

One thing I have thought: couldn't this full on attack on the election system actually dissuade Trumpers from voting making it seem futile?

One of the president's attorneys, who is popular among his diehard base, is threatening to withhold his vote in the Georgia runoff and encouraging others to do the same. https://t.co/5Bhyqp9UAv

— Yashar Ali �� (@yashar) November 21, 2020

Another day, another L.

BREAKING: Federal judge dismisses Trump campaign's last lawsuit seeking to delay certification of Pennsylvania's election results. pic.twitter.com/oYi0wLHQUe

— Jeremy Roebuck (@jeremyrroebuck) November 21, 2020