At what point is a long-term prison sentence appropriate to you? For me, it is appropriate for those that are a danger to others and/or society. The type of folks that have the judgment and ability to post threats online (like, “thinking about heading over to Pelosi (expletive)’s speech and putting a bullet in her noggin on Live TV"), make public threats (such as chanting "hang Mike Pence!"), and then proceed to disregard law enforcement when entering the workplace of those that are threatened would qualify. If they are not getting long-term sentences, we live in a country that values the liberty of terrorists more than that of society or victims.

The number of people making a big deal about Newsom's win as potentially translating nationally to 2022 and beyond is ridiculous. It's freaking California!

Only a handful of those people are going to sniff a prison cell.

You'll always need prison for the worst of the worst. But there is a good case to be made that it should be dramatically reduced. Technology allows for home confinement of non-violent offenders and rehab is a much better use of resources than prison for drug offenders.

The problem we have is that our justice system is incredibly tough on certain demographics and allows for essential lawlessness for others.

As long as you have for profit prisons you will need a steady stream of revenue.

Long term is in the eye of the beholder

Treason should get a very long term

Kinda like they proposed for blm protestors

Same? Same

🥨


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Treason? That's probably a great point for me to tick off likely everyone on the board by mentioning that I'm quite sympathetic with traitors in general as I hold no allegiance for the US or any other country and would be ashamed of myself if I did. Gratitude for being born here and the blessings I've had as a result, yes, but I don't elevate Americans above other people on the planet in terms of importance/value.


I definitely don't know the right answer for every situation. But the question I have is, what benefit has been gained by someone being in jail for 53 years? We've lost money as a society sustaining that situation. The people have continued to pay for Sirhan's actions. I just say there has to be a better answer than that.

I think there's a place for limited application of the death penalty, with a higher bar of proof than for normal crimes, extreme offenses such as serial killers, etc. Some institutionalization is necessary for the criminal insane, as dangerous as that precedent is, since some individuals simply aren't going to be capable of functioning in society.

As I understand the history, we basically started using prisons more and more as a way to reduce capital offences (simplistic, but also I think accurate). I just don't think it's much of an improvement. Locking someone up and throwing away the key is not significantly more humane than killing them IMO. For related reasons I think all zoos etc. should be outlawed. It's just cruel.

Justice matters, but I think we should try to satisfy it in ways that mandate offenders actually pay a debt to society. Being locked up, made hopeless, and unable to support themselves so that the taxpayers are forced to do it, does not accomplish this. It doesn't strike me as something that is just at all.

I actually agree with some of that

I’d say the people that tried to invade the capital with enough support and groupthink that had they actually gotten their hands on a member of Congress I fear what they would’ve actually done of their own accord or at the cheering of the mob were committing treason. I believe that had this been done by members of the left the right would’ve argued for treason and I find it laughable how they twisted themselves into pretzels to submit to Trumps defense of the mobs behavior or complete bizarro interpretation of what happened that day.

Yes treason

So even though you say you applaud the treasonous you agree that what they did (those that entered the capital or committed violence along the way [I’ll defer to the investigators and the tapes]) was treasonous?


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I applaud the idea of not having allegiance to any nation-state ... I would still be against many treasonous actions. As for January 6 crowd, I think they're definitely getting off far too lightly. I would call it insurrection, but probably not treason. As I've said in the past, I don't consider it to be nearly as surprising or new of an event as others seem to. We have decades of building to this, and I don't tend to distribute the blame in the same way most on this board do either, but I'm a lot more concerned about how we go forward than we got here.

Not sure if we discussed this here or not, but I'd like to see many of those charged for Jan 6 lose the right to vote in federal elections. Most were there because they believed Donald Trump's election fraud calls and probably many still believe him and will follow him to the ends of the Earth.

So just yesterday Trump sent a letter to Georgia's Sec of State that claims they found something like 43,000 votes there that violated some Chain of Custody rules, making them invalid, which would then give the state to Trump and they should start the process to decertify the election results there.

Meanwhile there were about 500 people at the J6 Rally today and outnumbered by media and police.

To which the SOS responded "New phone, who dis?"

A coup attempt (however pathetic) is still happening.

Every single sitting member of Congress (GOP and Dem) should be asked whether they agree with Donald Trump that states should decertify the 2020 election.

It would be nice to know where they stand.

They literally voted on this on January 6th. Asking new members is fine, but we have a vote on which ones did not want to certify the election and wanted a dictator for life.

The domains of the guy who setup the terrorist attack on 1/6 were revealed.

How Ali Alexander Tried To Hide His Digital Footprint Following Capitol Riot

This is the six-point plan advanced by Trump lawyer John Eastman for VP Pence to overturn the election on January 6th.https://t.co/IkgmEuCW8b pic.twitter.com/CXWTVY1LL7

— Christian Vanderbrouk (@UrbanAchievr) September 20, 2021

One of Trump's lawyer's plan for Jan 6 was released through an FOIA request. The plan to steal the eleection was real.

Laurence Tribe, mentioned several times in that responded:

Laurence Tribe

@tribelaw



·
20m
This Eastman memo pretends to be based on my analysis but in fact takes snippets of my work wholly out of context and spins a totally fake web of “law” that no halfway decent lawyer would take seriously. No wonder it couldn’t fool even Mike Pence.

So, reading the Woodward and Costa book. I do have to say my respect for Biden so far has gone up, not down.

The intervention with Hunter hurts. Badly. I've had several uncles who are alcoholics, and reading the details of the intervention, makes me wonder how he got through that. I feel simultaneously bad for Hunter, and angry at Hunter for wrecking his family further after the death of Beau, (agreeing to take an Uber to an intervention facility, then after getting there, saying "Nah, nevermind" and going on an immediate binge..), but I can't imagine the hell everyone went through. The fact that Biden could have easily said "You've put yourself on a branch, and you seem insistent on sawing it off behind you, I love you, but I can't try to save you anymore" and didn't is a plus in my eyes.

pic.twitter.com/HsROVBNKyN

— Blue 22 (@shortygblues) September 18, 2021

You don't need ear or eye protection. For Christ's sake that would be like thinking you need a vaccine for Covid-19.

I know this is shocking but a copy of the CyberNinja audit of Arizona was leaked...and Biden still won the state. In fact Trump lost 261 votes and Biden won 99 more votes for a total of 360 votes. Massive fraud indeed.

The Arizona Senate meets tomorrow to no doubt still claim Trump won

I am sure that they are going to say something like "we still believe many of these votes aren't valid. We weren't allowed access to X, so we weren't allowed to prove the fraud. We must immediately end all elections and declare Trump dictator for life..." or something like that.

I can already hear the Fox news spin " for months the dems attacked the creditability of the audit but now that it goes their way they want to claim victory"

My guess is that when they realized that a pro-Trump result would have no credibility, they decided to make it pro-Biden to lay the groundwork for 2022 and 2024: "See, unsupervised audits by GOP partisans are totally legit. Look at Arizona in 2020."

I wonder how much of these audits are about gathering info they couldn't otherwise get. There's a lot of data being given to third parties in the course of these.

I'm shocked that is group appears to have some integrity.

I don't think they do. They are trying to build credibility going forward.

Or they don’t want the scrutiny of a congressional hearing.

Not everything needs to be some grand conspiracy or master plan. It's good that they concluded Biden did win, regardless of why.

Sadly, there will still be a spin and there will still be a large portion of the right these results don't faze in their belief the election was stolen.

Yes yes cyber ninjas has been completely above board in the words they’ve actually said, you know the words coming out of their mouth, along with the senators funding them with taxpayer monies… it’s been completely above board the whole time. They say things the whole time that completely align with them results…

I just can’t believe this guy. It’s such pretzel action all of the time.

Smh


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This is an absurd statement given what we know.

If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next
 

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Horseshit attempt to nullify the election is still horseshit.

Seconded.

Yes, it is very good that they stole Arizona money, used their false pretenses to raise other money, stole personal data and toted it to the mountains, exposed people's private data, and had no oversight...just to come to the same conclusion that the two other formal recounts and audits did. So good.

Someone has to stan for the fascists and grifters though.

It was either that or go to jail for election fraud/tampering with ballots. For their little ploy to work Trump or a Republican would have to become President to pardon them all.

They were never going to get in trouble for tampering or fraud. Laws don't really apply to people like that.

It likely just sets this up as a norm where authoritarians can now "audit" the results in counties that didn't go their way and flip "elections".

I see the grand tradition of putting words in my mouth hasn't gone out of style. I didn't say any of that was good.

I said it was good that they came to a conclusion which backed up the results of the election. That's it, and that's all.

I'll leave this right here

This is so on brand.

https://abc7.com/glendale-unified-pr...hool/11044438/

No discussions about the rump administration's discussions and plans to assassinate Julian Assange? That's some pretty big Putin-y shit there. The extent and ferocity of the discussions went far beyond, should we.

King Toadstool should get #DogtheBountyHunter to find his missing votes.

Looks like gold medalist Klete Keller was not real bright. Looking at 21-27 months in prison, theoretically. He pled guilty to the one charge so he wasn't charged with 6 others.

Two-time Olympic gold medalist swimmer Klete Keller charged with felony for role in January 6 Capitol attack - CBSSports.com



SI

Theoretically doing a lot of work there. Keller will get probation.

Yeah, just like all of these dolts. There's just been no appetite to prosecute these criminals. I wonder why not... (insert Family Guy skin color gif)

SI

I had forgotten that dude existed until this whole Gabbie Petito thing. Dude is supergluing himself to that case to reclaim his 15 minutes.

Is there anything that sums up the MAGA crowd better than raising $2 million for the jailed marine officer that criticized Biden's handling of Afghanistan before they realized he's anti-Trump and said he'd rather sit in jail than accept money raised by Trump supporters?

Well, they are the stupidest fucking people that walk the planet, so yeah.

It's all a game to them. It's sports. If you are anti team-Biden, then you must be team MAGA. There's only two teams.

The idea that politics involves real issues that affect real people or that people can have complex and nuanced views makes no sense to them.

It's fandom. It's identity politics. It's college football.

Lin Wood continues to swim in the deep end by going on a rant over weekend claiming the World Trade Center towers weren't hit by planes or anything. It was all CGI and "deep fakes".

"Nobody has done more for Christianity or for evangelicals—or for religion itself—than I have........."

Donald Trump Claims Nobody Has Done More 'for Religion Itself' Than Him

Now that is some police report.

The MAGA Trashiest Police Report in History - The Bulwark

Pulitzer worthy for this line alone

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/05/polit...&utm_term=link

I will never understand how seemingly smart people can not grasp that eventually everyone in Trumps orbit goes down.

I'm no legal scholar but if what I am seeing on Twitter is true Matt Gaetz is in a whole lot of trouble.

I haven't been following it.

But at some point, Trump will decide that Gaetz is no longer worth the trouble and give the signal that he is no longer under Trump's protection. And then the GOP will turn on him and point out that they've always been against pedophilia and why is the Democrat media trying to tie Gaetz to the GOP and isn't it time to move on to more important things like the Mexican Caravan? It's gotta be, like, really close by now, right?

My FB wall is just overloaded with “save the children” posts

/sarcasm because the gop wing infected with T and Q actually doesn’t give a shit about that unless it’s an accusation of Biden smelling hair or dumb shit like that


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I don't see it. The delay in sentencing seems to be a favor for a rich, well-connected white guy and not because there is ongoing cooperation.

If it's on Twitter then is must be true.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Until there is an actual indictment, it is all a bunch of smoke. That goes for Gaetz, Trump, Rudy and anyone else in that orbit. Plenty of time has passed and absolutely nothing has happened.

Agree, theater at it's best and all it does is give them ammo against fake news, emboldening them even more.

So AT&T funds about 90% of One America News.

WTF, man. I mean, like I'm not shocked some corporate welfare is doing it. I just didn't figure AT&T would be the one.


Wait - where are these 7 other "leftwing" networks?

Also, geez - "Herring Networks". We really are just in a simulation. Was "Red Herring Networks" too on the nose?

SI

If OAN is your go to news source, virtually every other network is a "leftwing" network. Might as well be 150 of em.

Insane, fascists shit here:

Here's the Senate report's key section on Jeffrey Clark's attempt to get Rosen to send the Georgia letter.https://t.co/cjlS9rGtkw pic.twitter.com/2YUMqTFCab

— Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) October 7, 2021

It seems like AT&T wanted a far-right network that they would have exclusivity over. Basically, a segment of the population would need AT&T to watch whatever fascist propaganda they wanted to.

Heard about that earlier. Optics be damned they need to start holding people accountable.

What is clear to me is that there were plenty of people ready to follow along if someone took the lead to invalidate the election. Can we be sure in 2024 that nobody will be willing to lead these people?

Democrats won't even pass a bill to protect their own voters from being able to vote in the next election. They give zero shits and are likely excited to be in the minority again where fundraising and their job becomes easier.

Time to add to the list of companies who won't see another cent from me. This year's additions.

1. Toyota
2. AT&T
3. DirecTV

Vote with your wallet for the win!

I can't be the only one who's thinking "are we going to look back at some of these acts as things that saved the republic or are we going to look back at these as the obvious blueprint for what came next"

SI

I vote the obvious blueprint for what comes next. I fear we are on the verge of a great fall.

The latter. This almost feels like a test run with some of the dumbest human beings in existence attempting it. But now that there has been zero pushback, smarter people will take the cue and successfully accomplish it next time. You're already starting to see how it'll be done on the state level.

Despite all the cheerleading, this country has never been a huge proponent of democracy and we're going to find out how deep the autocratic sympathies lie.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said it best.... only if we can keep it.

I'm afraid that there's a group of people who will sacrifice the whole for their portion of the pie.

I agree with the 2nd point. That we're getting closer to trump and certain specific people being declared an enemy (which is sort of how they see themselves anyway) and removed from the discussion (which sort of reinforces the way they already see themselves), but when the alternative is that they gain control over all things for an indefinite period of time, with no care, nor concern for the rules that defined the nation, and the only thing that they want is the acquisition of power, then I think the argument has made itself. And I think we're not (we are really far off, it literally will take this group to foment an assassination to move the needle an inch) far off of where we should be considering such things.

Another terrorist gets a sweet plea deal. Who'd have thought the way to avoid a marijuana bust was to just smoke it in the Capital?

James Bonet Admits He Smoked Weed inside U.S. Capitol

Some insightful (and frightening) discussion here...

The Focus Group with Sarah Longwell: Miller versus MAGA (with Tim Miller)

These people are 100% convinced in everything they believe, insightful, frightful, but most of all sad that so many are so gullible and mentally weak

I have yet to see any leaked information or even any informed speculation as to why they’re being so lenient on these terrorists. It seems to send a horrible message for national security purposes. It seems to encourage in the MAGA right. So it seems to be both politically stupid and bad for national security. I just don’t get it.

I think they’re misguided hope is that with leniency they’ll see that the people they attacked forgive them so that they’ll come out the other side taking a more skeptical view of T and Q.

They won’t

We’ll be here again and I’m afraid it’ll be with ushering in off an autocrat and a constitutional crisis


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This should make for some decent discussion.

Trump's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

They're white.

Also most law enforcement support them.

Click through that thread. It's astonishing.

Insanity.

That story is insane.

So that fat pig is getting a kickback from the jail, right? I know we've had a few similar cases around the country.

I can’t read it

It’ll make me sick


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Don't worry. She will be nominated for the Supreme Court once Trump wins in 2024.

I get your point.

But one of the things that they didn't let Trump turn to shit with his reverse-Midas touch was the judicial appointments.

The FedSoc people were in charge, and they told him who to nominate and convinced him it was his idea.

This is incorrect.

Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel - Los Angeles Times

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...got-confirmed/

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

You can find a lot more.

FedSoc does not have much credibility. Eastman, who wrote up the coup documents and was behind the January 6th terrorist attack was a Chairman. Senators who are members voted against certifying the election for really no particular reason. Their VP spent the last decade raising money to create an oligarchy.

They routinely and brazenly break the laws on tax-exempt status. It's just a partisan group that pretends to advocate for a certain judicial ideology (which changes when it hurts Republicans), but is instead an activist group that pushes for judges that will help their corporate donors. The fact they were supporting the nomination of 30-something old federal judges with no experience and rated unqualified by every legal group in existence shows exactly who they are.

Why not both GIF

Trump sucks.

Just doing my part to keep the circle going.

Thanks for doing your part... whatever it was. Shitposting, right?

SI

I wonder how much money the Trump campaign has raised by telling their supporters they're going to sue to stop the vaccine mandates.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott bans any COVID-19 vaccine mandates | The Texas Tribune

Greg Abbott tacking (even more) to the right to oppose them because his primary candidate next year is making noise about it

SI