Jon Favreau in Swingers.

The O/U on these types of calls/conversations initiated by Trump has to be astronomical over the past 4 years. Zero chance that what occurred with Ukraine and now in GA hasn’t happened on a regular basis.

I think one of his fears is that once he's gone, transcripts for his conversations can be made public. The desperation in his voice on that call was telling.

Law and order folks awfully quiet again about these blatant crimes.

This is a pretty big tell.

Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is traveling with Trump to GA, says: “I think our secretary of state has failed Georgia. I believe our elections should be decertified.”
Asked if doing so would impact her and other Georgia Rs, she said: "We're just talking about the President's race.”

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) January 4, 2021

Jordan just doing his part to ensure he receives the 100% deserved Medal of Freedom

This is not a real prediction, but can we make this happen?

OK you wanted outside the box:

1. Pence would prefer not to subvert the Constitution on Jan. 6.

2. But Pence feels a strong sense of loyalty to Trump.

3. And Pence wants to avoid a demand that he pardon Trump upon a Trump resignation Jan. 19.

So: Pence resigns as VP tomorrow.

— Bill Kristol (@BillKristol) January 5, 2021

Who would certify the election in the absence of the VP and with no time to confirm a new one?

I have read that somewhere but can't find it. I think it would fall to the President-Pro tem.

Heh. The thought of Pence resigning had actually crossed my mind.

I read that, too.

Chuck Grassley.

I think that, if Pence wants a political future, that's a dumb move by him.

The smart political play, IMO, is to open the envelopes and read them. He can spin that as "I had to do it under the Constitution and/or it wasn't going to work without the House and Senate behind me."

Then, he can offer Trump the one thing none of the other bootlickers can: a ironclad pardon.

Trump resigns on the 19th or so. Pence pardons him. Biden gets sworn in.

That would seem to give Pence enough cred with the Trumpsters going forward. (Though I admit to a pretty poor track record of understanding what motivates Trumpsters).

Yeah, Pence resigning makes no sense. Forget a political future, I imagine he would become a target for assassination if things unfolded like that.

More of a target than if he (according to MAGA) commits treason by betraying Trump and certifying millions of fraudulent votes tomorrow?

But why would quitting instead of staying and fighting for Trump look any better to them?

dola:

I don't know if Jon's reading this thread. I think of him as my MAGA whisperer. Maybe he knows what, if anything, Pence needs to do to stay in their good graces.

I think as soon as he certifies he becomes MAGA public enemy #1. They don't understand, nor do they care, about the constitution or the fact this is entirely a ceremonious action by Pence.

He's got the Constitution to fall back on, buttressed by at least some Republicans who have taken the same position. At this point, he's only put himself in this position by sitting there yesterday nodding during the chants and giving the impression something was going to happen tomorrow (that he would be involved with) beyond the ordinary counting of votes. Personally, I hope every one of these a-holes get what's coming to them (politically-speaking, of course).

Magats don't care about the Constitution if it affects them.

Like I said, these guys have no one to blame but themselves for boxing themselves into this scenario. I can't imagine Pence didn't think this through and has some sort of exit strategy. Maybe, like Alb says, it's the pardon scenario.

I can't imagine he hasn't been consulting Ted Cruz and others. Maybe he continues the charade/show with an on-the-record statement in support of Trump and then certifies. My only concern at this point is that if the Dems win GA today, does that increase the chances that they just decide to go all the way and let the SC say no? But maybe that's the end game all along - let the blame fall elsewhere, we did what we could.

Vice President Steve Harvey.

(Or Warren Beatty, take your pick.)

I think Pence will get the same treatment from MAGAs that Bill Barr did-he was actually a "Deep Stater" and traitor all along, revisionist history at its finest. Pence will get it worse than Barr and his political career will be over unless he pardons Trump sometime before he leaves office-proclaiming God asked him to do it or other religious prods. I think that's the only thing that can save his political career.

Pence HAS to have thought this through, right? If he goes the "just doin' my Constitutional job" route, I agree with those who say that he instantly becomes MAGA Enemy #1. The "Pardon Trump" scenario happening after that assumes coordination with Trump, which would mean that Pence would need to be convinced that Donald J. Trump is willing to resign and accept a pardon. Does the guy we heard on that phone call really think that he NEEDS a pardon??? My guess is that Trump thinks he can talk his way out of whatever may come after 1/20. I just don't see the pardon thing happening.

So then I'm left with...

1. Pence, after 4 years of being Trump's whore--presumably in exchange for being better-positioned for future power--deciding to give up on that future.

Or

2. Pence, after 4 years of being Trump's whore--presumably in exchange for being better-positioned for future power--continuing down that road to try to preserve his political future.

Yeah, I pick option 2. I just don't see Pence certifying unless he is CERTAIN he gets to be the guy who pardons Trump...and I don't see how he can be certain. I think we see some nonsense from him tomorrow, just not sure what kind...

NEW: Iowa Sen. Charles E. Grassley, the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since "we don't expect him to be there."

— Roll Call (@rollcall) January 5, 2021

Grassley's spokesperson quickly tried to clarify that Grassley was speaking hypothetically, but...

Or, option 3? The patriotic, brave, and heroic Pence finds an excuse not to show up at all.

NEW: Iowa Sen. Charles E. Grassley, the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since "we don't expect him to be there."

— Roll Call (@rollcall) January 5, 2021

Heh. Well there ya go. I didn't realize "Imma just sit this one out" was an option. That's easily the best-case scenario for Pence: let the 87-year-old who is about to retire take the heat.

So he's going to no-show even more than he did for that Colts-49ers game?

SI

I'm actually very relieved to see that. I think that means they aren't going to actually try to pull anything other than make speeches to compete for MAGA votes/money going forward.

But Good Lord... what a pathetic POS. I don't see how this should shield him from MAGA anger, though.

"The Vice President wants to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest considering these credible and widespread allegations of fraud against Dear Leader Trump (blessed be His Name) and himself. As a candidate for Vice President, Mr. Pence is a worthless blot of dirt stuck to the shoe of the Dear Leader. But, sadly, that makes him a victim of the fraud against Sir Trump (blessed be His Name). We cannot give the Democrat Party and the Socialists and China and Hunter Biden and Hugo Chavez any reason to doubt Dear Leader's victory. Thus, this clot of dirt will step aside and let Senator Grassley preside over the Senate.

"Senator Grassley, you are not worthy to receive Trump, but only say His Name, and you shall be healed."

Pence's office clarified and said that Pence is expected to be there, but expected to isn't the same as will be.

"Tom Herman is our head football coach."

Yeah, that was mostly a joke. In the end Pence is in the same no win situation that Kemp is in right now. The only thing he can do would be to just directly break the law to stay in Trump's good graces.

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Welp, not that it's any surprise, but it's now certain that if Pence DOES show and certify, MAGA will hold him 100% responsible.

The Vice President has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 5, 2021

My guess based on nothing:

Pence/McConnell/Grassley (and, heck, maybe even Pelosi) have been backchanneling this. They have the plan, but they wanted to keep it secret until tomorrow to keep Trump, Hawley, Cruz, etc. from being able to react to it.

Then that aide blew it up by mentioning that Pence isn't expected to be there.

Edit--not sure if it was an aide or not, but someone (IMO) let it out of the bag 12 hours early.

Pence deserves whatever misery this leads to.

Actually it was Grassley himself, and an aide walked it back.

But yeah, my first thought, even before the Pence announcement, was that Grassley's 87-year-old brain just let it slip.

So about a 85% chance that Pence is just going yo try to refuse to announce the results?

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"When you call the tune, you've got to pay the piper."--"Rowdy" Roddy Piper

Next to Trump himself, I'm not sure anyone is as responsible for the last four years than Pence. He was a big factor in convincing evangelicals to go all-in for Trump.

The Pence thing is weird since his job is to just open the ballots. He has zero power according to the constitution.

It's just more stuff that the toadying lawyers have been telling Trump. They sold him this multi-prong path to victory. At this point, this is the last prong left... or one of the last. I shudder to think what the last one actually is, as it likely involves heavy military and police action.

And it's basically the only thing he does as VP unless the Senate calls on him. So he has one job, and doesn't want it.

This Pence thing is bizarre. You can search the 12th amendment on Google and find out he has no power pretty quick.

I'm amazed that the Democrats were able to rig an election so well that everyone knows it happened, they talk about it in the open, but Republicans can't find any proof to show the courts... while also being dumb enough to not have realized that the last 2 Democratic VPs could have just thrown out Florida, Michigan and Ohio electoral votes in the past to keep the Presidency.

Imagine living your life thinking the people you hate are geniuses who are also the dumbest people alive.

Don't forget, dumb enough to not rig it to where the Democrats would have a majority in the Senate and not have to worry about the run off in Georgia.

At times, I feel like I'm watching a 20 year retrospective "Where Are They Now?" about all of the people who bought into the John Titor thing and how that grew into an ability to believe a vast array of conspiracy theories about consequential events in actual life.

Well, he did predict a second civil war....



:D

The GOP controlled PA Senate just refused to seat a Dem whose race has been certified because the GOP candidate is challenging the results.

How much of this party is now anti-democracy?

I think I'd almost prefer Eric Bischoff writing out how the next three weeks are going to go than how it's going to play out

SI

It feels like 98% of this is happening because they went down a path there is no legitimate off-ramp to unless they admit they are liars or idiots, so they just keep doubling down. It's the same thing we saw with the Covid response. They have to stay consistent above all else.