Bloomberg is getting feisty! Keep on the offense and teach that communist about capitalism!

Way over the top.

Bloomberg is on the attack but I think he is doing it wrong. Go after policy, not how many houses Bernie has, no one really cares and anyone who will vote for Bernie isn't so naive to think he is some dude living paycheck to paycheck.

Damnit Sanders you need to call yourself a "social Democrat" not a "Democratic Socialist". You are just hurting yourself for no reason.

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Hes pointing out how absurd it is that a millionaire is attacking him about being too rich.

The moderators are really screwing Klobuchar in this hour. She's been completely looked over.

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I totally get that, but you have to be pretty naive to not know Bernie is rich and somewhat a hypocrite. People support him because they want free stuff.

Biden is still doing well, keep it up

My ranking of the debate so far:
Warren
Biden
Sanders
Klobuchar
Buttigieg
Bloomberg

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Bloomberg has disappeared.

Probably best for him.

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Go Amy!

Pete pick on someone else

When Pete goes after Amy he gets slammed for his lack of experience every time. You'd think he'd stop.

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This is why the debates were no gift to Bloomberg. Warren wanted a shot at him and she's beat him up all night.

This forever.

I suspect an adviser got in his ear and basically told him they need to do damage control at this point

The protesters help Biden there, IMO. Backfired

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can't find anywhere what they were saying

Are you kidding me?!? A hypocrite? The guy is 78 years old. The salary for US Reps and Senators is $174,000/year. He has been one or the other for 38 years. 38 years!! Do the math. If he WASNT a millionaire by now with that salary people would be saying that he is incompetent with finances/thus fiscal policy. And I'd bet he's still amongst the least wealthy Senators. Just because the guy is on a platform for the working class, does not mean he should be disowning all of his possessions. Millionaire is not what it used to be. And I'd bet Bernie's wealth is still closer to 1 million than 10 million.

This is such an illogical statement it's mind numbing.

Never said he should be, but if you don't think he comes across as a hypocrite to millions of Americans, and not just republicans, I don't know what to tell you.

If you can't see how vapid and conflating your statement is, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't think it's free stuff as much as it is getting access to a fraction of the advantages that previous generations had access to.

LOL. Got to love Bernie supporters. "Eat the rich". Isnt Sanders rich? "Millionaire is not what it used to be". :lol:

It's a matter of relativity. Bernie is all about government for the 99%. To be in the 1% you need a family income of ~$420,000 annually. Bernie is not the 1%. Not even close. Maybe by accumulated wealth over almost 4 decades of public service on a standard elected official salary, but who would not be at that point? No one unless you made some really, really, really bad financial decisions. And you'd be going after him for that if that was the case.

Attack him for being a democratic socialist, attack him for his health, or age, or sounding like a broken record at times (consistency is boring in politics), but attack him for being a very modest millionaire while he's fighting for the underserved and underpriveleged? If he weren't at this point it'd be more concerning.

ok.

Nothing says champion of the working class like a guy who has 3 houses.

You're oblivious to reality. He said he's got a home in Vermont, one in DC where he's basically lived for 38 years serving in government, and one summer cabin in Vermont. But fuck him for standing up for the working class and the 500,000 homeless when not actually being homeless himself! hEs A hYpoCRiT!

And Pete's retort of only "having one home in Indiana" for the record was baseless too. Bernie has 40 years on Pete. I'll guarantee you Pete Buttigieg, with his McKinsey instincts will be a millionaire with more than 1 home by the time he's 78. Shit, Pete at 38 with 1 home is impressive. Most 38 years olds I know couldn't dream of buying a home where I live.

These things need some perspective and to be put things into context. Some of these arguments are so non-sensical.

But go ahead and vote for your richer candidate of your choice who is taking money, and influenced by big money donors and lobbyists.

Perception is reality.

What does that have to do with his policies? What income level do you have to be below to advocate for the working class? Your mask is coming off.

You advocate for child safety yet are not yourself a child, how hypocritical?

Warren looked the best in the debate. She seemed a bit fired up which I think is when she comes across best. And boy did she just hammer Bloomberg.

But since this is a woman, I'm sure some pundits will proclaim how "bitchy" and "shrill" she was.

Edit: And you're right, looks like the debate was a huge miscalculation by Bloomberg. He would have been better off just running ads through the whole thing and joining up when the stage had less contenders.

Only billionaires can pay for Sanders' vision of America. He needs them.

My current preferences...

Warren
Biden
Klobuchar
Buttigieg
Sanders
Bloomberg

With book deals, Bernie + wife is in the 1% income for the past several years. His net worth is about $2.5M so he is not in the top 1% there, maybe in the top 95%.

Who would not be a millionaire at that point? Oh com'on, plenty of 4 decade public servants who are not multi-millionaires.

But I agree with you. A multi-millionaire can speak up for the less fortunate (just like Bloomberg). However, it was a good offensive quip by Bloomberg considering he was getting beat up on. I wish he had done more of that.

Also, sure Bernie Bros can call him a democratic socialist or a socialist democrat. But if Hillary can be called a Republican on this board, nationalists can be clumped together with white nationalists, bigotry and discrimination falling under the over arching banner of racism ... let's go ahead and not quibble, Bernie is a socialist. The key reason why the Bros don't want to concede that is they know there is a stigma associated with that word.

My current preferences ...

Biden
Klobuchar
Bloomberg
Pete
Warren & Sanders

I have some renewed faith in Biden. He was the only adult in the room and thought he spoke well.

I did not like Pete's attacks on Klobuchar and thought Amy's comebacks were good re: her experience. However, Pete was probably the smoothest out there, just not sure how much substance is underneath.

I'll give Bloomberg a pass. I do think he will be prepped better next time. He has some good lines but not enough offense and some bad responses like on his taxes and the NDA.

Warren & Sanders were 2 peas in the pod, "oh pick me, pick me" with their comical hand raising (much of that is blamed on the format and mods). Sander's rationale for not releasing his medical is bad.

I think you hit the nail why these Bernie Bros don't really want to support somebody else. Your comments are pretty out of touch.

Can you be for climate change and drive a car? Can you be for fixing hunger if you eat every day? I mean come on, your comments are so asinine they invite the trolls. I kind of like Bernie, I have no real interest in "free stuff". A lot of what he says is very true and has been saying it for years, if not decades, before he wrote a book and made a million.

I’m merely talking about perception. People are going to negatively receive a millionaire telling other millionaire and billionaires they shouldn’t have so much money. That’s going to be used against him every step of the way.

Dola- fwiw I’ll still vote Bernie if he wins the nomination.

That debate was fun. Do you think it will get renewed? I really enjoyed the beating Bloomberg got. That is not a man used to being questioned by his "inferiors."

That is an excellent point. We already have someone in the white House who has clearly never had his authority questioned. Is that something we want to repeat?

More along the lines of a Chinese politician advocating you can only have 2 children while having 5 themselves. Or somebody being against abortion while their wife or children or mistress etc are having one themselves.

I don't think Lathum or myself are saying you can't be rich and advocate for the poor. But if you are rich (and Bernie Sanders is rich) and on top of that you choose to attack somebody richer than you for being rich it's fair game to be counter attacked for having 3 houses and flying first class.

yes, but if you drive an electric car as opposed to a gas guzzler you gain a lot more credibility.

I think there are millions of people making a decent living, say 80K and up, who look at Bernie and wonder how his philosophy would harm them financially while noting he himself is a millionaire who has profited off the current system.

Trump claims to be an advocate for poor and minority people, yet we all know thats just not true.

When someone is a millionaire a couple times over and owns 3 houses, yet claims to be the advocate for the working class, that is going to be negatively perceived by some. Right or wrong it just is.

What mask are you speaking of?

If you're rich it's hypocritical to be a voice for the poor, and if you're poor you don't have enough money to have a voice.

The game that makes it impossible for someone to advocate for the poor.

I don’t think that’s true, but when you are a rich person who is telling other rich people they should have less money, while you remain rich, it comes across as hollow to a lot of people.

A quick google search shows Bernie made 571K in 2018 and donates 18k to charity. Does that strike you as someone giving back to the poor?

You can be rich and be an advocate of the poor, but it does sound stranger coming from Sanders because of his particular view of the situation. He doesn't think the rich like him merely should be taxed more, he thinks they shouldn't exist at all, and are immoral because of their wealth. Does that make Mayor Pete more moral than Sanders? When Dems start yelling at each other about who makes less money as a point of honor - as Obama did with McCain in 2008 when he bragged that he had 1 house to McCain's 5 - it comes off as ridiculous to me. I wonder how many houses Obama has now and if that makes him less moral than the Dem candidates with only 1 house now.

And if a rich person having more necessarily means a poorer person has less, then isn't Sanders' wealth taking money from the poor? If he made less on his book deal, than, in his world, the people who worked in the factories that made the physical books, the book sellers, the janitors at the offices housing the marketing staffs, etc, would all automatically make more. In his world, there's a fixed amount of cash in the world, it enters the system at the top, and the rich take too much. And that everybody else automatically gets more of it somehow if we cut off their supply. (That's the product he sells, anyway, and the economy that Bernie Bros describe, I don't know if he really believes that.) But he benefited from that game where the person on top of that equation takes most of the money, even if it was more than they needed.

Sanders scares me because he just comes across as so juvenile, emotion-based, playing to the crowd, telling everybody what they want to hear at all times. Fiery speeches about how these people are the enemy and if we destroy them all, we'll all take their place. It's a message that seems to be rooted in revenge rather than a long-view economic study of what will benefit most people in a complex economy. I know he's smarter than all that and that he's just taking the Trump approach to appeal to peoples' base instincts in order to get elected. It just gives me the creeps.

I don't know if there's substance behind the rhetoric but it's hard to see him as an effective president, which tempers the creep factor for me a bit. He doesn't seem to have any interest in compromising or working with anyone like Obama did. He'd stop the most vicious and blatant harms of the Trump years but legislatively-speaking - I assume we'd just get more old man screaming and supporter talk of conspiracies as to why he didn't fulfill his campaign promises. Though we'd also probably get desperate grasps for more executive power. I can easily Sanders selling the latter as being necessary to protect the 99%, and his supporters eating it up.

That's different than:


It's that idea, that rich people are hypocrites for speaking up for the poor, that I find mostly a tool for the rich to continue to hoard all the money.

One of my main issues with Sanders is that he has very little interest in party politics. If he wins, he's going to need significant majorities to get any of his plans done, yet he seems to have no commitment to getting those people elected.

This is my first year as a registered Democrat and first time voting in a Dem primary. And the candidates who resonate with me are all long gone. It's kind of depressing. I know I'm not really a Democrat at heart, but, it's certainly the party I align most closely with on the issues. I just really don't like the brand that's sold. I'm still undecided in the primary, but tuning into the debates just makes me like almost everyone less.

He is not saying you can't be rich or make money. He is just saying you have to pay more in taxes and play by the rules. I see nothing in his plan that personally exempts him from that.

It's just a dumb argument people make when they can't really argue the policy.

He does say billionaires shouldn't exist. And Bernie was also very critical of millionaires, until he became one.

The amount he is paying to charity is almost the exact amount he wants people in his income bracket to pay more in taxes. He put his money where his mouth is.

His tax plan is publicly available to view. He isn't asking for people making $500k a year to pay 70%.

I don't agree with that but I don't see anything under his policies that would eliminate billionaires. It seems like billionaires would still be billionaires.

There is an argument to be made that they have benefited financially from our nation infinitely more than other people, so they should have to pay a much higher cut.

He said "No billionaires". So perhaps I am making what you would call a lazy or dumb argument but I will go back to why Bloomberg responded about his 3 houses. I never even said it would win points in a debate based on logic but definitely points out he is a hypocrite. The homeless man living on the streets probably feels the same way about millionaires with 3 houses that Bernie feels about billionaires.

Molson, I think it may be that you haven't really looked into Sanders, and you are just saying the impression he gives you. It is really not fair to characterize him as insincere or just saying whatever to get elected. His views have been consistent for decades. He didn't just wake up and decide health care is a human right yesterday.
There is many problems with Sanders, but inconstancies and people pleasing are not among them.

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Yeah, I'm not a huge Bernie fan as I noted earlier, but I don't think you have to live like a monk to advocate for the less fortunate, just like I don't think Al Gore should have to ride a bike everywhere to advocate for the environment.

My ranking after watching (and I haven't digested much from the talking heads):

Bloomberg was awful. I agree with the notion that he is surrounded by a bunch of "Yes" men - all telling him how great he would be (with no one really challenging/preparing him). There's a lot of Trump in that setup. As the debates keep going, I just really like Mayor Pete. He doesn't have nearly the experience, but he is great in these debates. The line that of the two front runners, one wants to "buy the presidency" and the other wants to "burn it down" was great. If he were the governor of Indiana, I think he could have a chance - but not as the Mayor of South Bend.

I thought Warren did really well, but she went a little too much into the Bernie sob stories on policy responses. Still, I like her more than I did going in.

I thought Biden, Klobuchar and Pete made some really good points when they said that just because they aren't willing to go full M4A doesn't mean they are the status quo. Increasing the coverage umbrella, providing options for pre-existing conditions and looking at ways to reduce cost is better than what we have now. Bernie acts like there two doors: a public option or the worst system in the history of mankind. Bernie has to understand there is zero chance of M4A (not even a majority of democrats want it), but there is a good chance of expanding the current system we have and moving the "median point" left for the debate in 3-4 years. Of course, you can't burn everything down to make that happen, you have to make gains in the senate and sell a plan that doesn't negatively impact union workers who have negotiated great health care plans and people with above average employer subsidized care (again, not that hard to do if you are willing to compromise up front).

My hope is we get one of Biden/Amy/Pete, but I'm not sure they can beat the Bernie head start. I think it's still a joke that two caucuses and one of the smallest (and whitest) states in the union will provide 70% of the momentum for the dem primaries - but it is what it is. As I said earlier, Warren is someone I think I could consider given she isn't a "my way or the highway" zealot Bernie is on this stuff. I think she would take a 20-30% win on many of these issues while I think Bernie would stand on his principles and get nothing done.

The best Bernie parallel I can think of is the story of the business owner who goes into an inner city school. He walks into the 8th grade class of 40 kids and tells the teacher he will provide 25 full-ride scholarships to the students. The teacher thinks about it and then says "Thank you, but I don't think that would be fair to the 15 who didn't get one". That's Bernie to a tee. Come up with a plan that could help 40% of the people struggling? Not good enough, let's stay at 0 until it gets so bad (in his mind) that we finally do 100%!

Unfortunately, saying that has gotten her trashed by the Bernie fans all over social media.

That's really a shame because progress isn't built all at once. Taking small wins is how things get better over time. But this is also why the best chance Trump has to continue is more and more Bernie (and his supporters) out front and center

I think he's sincere in his values, I don't think he's sincere in the manner in which he is trying to connect with voters. Maybe populism is the right word - I know the definition of these terms is changing all the time. But it's that emotion-based moral pandering, us v. them, we have to take down the establishment, sign up with me and you're better than the "others", that doesn't have a basis in reality and creates toxicity on the fringes. Like with Trump, and European candidates pandering to nationalism-based anger.

Maybe I just like my candidates boring and pragmatic.

Unless someone steps up, this is probably going to be the first time I vote against a presidential nominee rather than for one. I started on Biden, but he just doesn’t seem into it. I don’t want Bernie or Warren - I think either of them guarantees a GOP president, House, and Senate by 2024. And that would be devastating if the nomination of judges continues to go hard right. Klobaucher seems okay most of the time, but then seems petty and mean some times.

But Bernie's positions weren't popular at one time. He opposed the Iraq War (and almost every conflict in the Middle East) when it was unpopular. Same for M4A, climate change, bank regulation, etc.

I don't think he's latching on to new issues because they are suddenly popular. Seems like the public somehow came around on a lot of issues he has supported for decades.

People may not like him or his ideas, but they seem genuine. That is opposed to someone like Clinton who let polls decide what she stood for.

Some of the swing states. Is Wisconsin a red state now?

Michigan GE @QuinnipiacPoll:

Sanders 48% (+5)
Trump 43%

Bloomberg 47% (+5)
Trump 42%

Biden 47% (+4)
Trump 43%

Warren 45% (+2)
Trump 43%

Buttigieg 45% (+1)
Trump 44%

Klobuchar 45% (+1)
Trump's 44%https://t.co/5ONn73G9L2…

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) February 20, 2020

Pennsylvania GE @QuinnipiacPoll:

Biden 50% (+8)
Trump 42%

Klobuchar 49% (+7)
Trump 42%

Bloomberg 48% (+6)
Trump 42%

Sanders 48% (+4)
Trump 44%

Buttigieg 47% (+4)
Trump 43%

Warren 47% (+3)
Trump 44%https://t.co/5ONn73G9L2…

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) February 20, 2020

#Florida General Election Poll:

Bloomberg 50% (+6)
Trump 44%

Biden 49% (+1)
Trump 48%

Sanders 48%
Trump 48%

Warren 47%
Trump 47%

Trump 48% (+4)
Klobuchar 44%

Trump 49% (+4)
Buttigieg 45%@UNFPORL/@FCN2go 2/16-18https://t.co/HyoVRbNuiG

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) February 20, 2020

North Carolina @SurveyUSA GE Poll:

Bloomberg 49% (+6)
Trump 43%

Sanders 50% (+5)
Trump 45%

Biden 49% (+4)
Trump 45%

Trump 46% (+1)
Buttigieg 45%

Trump 46% (+4)
Klobuchar 42%

Trump 48% (+4)
Warren 44%

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) February 19, 2020

This is registered voters nationally.

#National @ABC/WaPost GE Poll:

Biden 52% (+7)
Trump 45%

Sanders 51% (+6)
Trump 45%

Bloomberg 50% (+5)
Trump 45%

Buttigieg 49% (+3)
Trump 46%

Klobuchar 48% (+2)
Trump 46%

Warren 48% (+1)
Trump 47%

Among "Registered Voters"https://t.co/zXvxfMNoBi…

— Political Polls (@PpollingNumbers) February 19, 2020

Which candidate's policies do you agree with most? You somehow failed to mention any in the paragraph above.

Also want to report if I suddenly start supporting Bloomberg....you know why.

Bloomberg to Pay Hundreds of People $2,500 a Month to Praise Him on Their Personal Social Media Feeds: Report

Shit, how do I get one of those jobs?

Edit: Nevermind. Sounds like a shitty job. I thought I could just blast away pro-Bloomberg stuff and collect a check.

The Wisconsin numbers are staggering. Trump is up by big numbers. All of these numbers really mean little, because once you are the actual candidate, the numbers always drops. But that Trump can still be up so big in a must win state like Wisconsin is really troubling.

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I typed a longer response but it got eaten up somehow.

Basically, I value pragmatism and judicial appointments as my top priority. And, in seeing how much damage Trump has done, I would add in foreign relations in this election, as well. I think everyone, aside from maybe Bloomberg (need to see/hear more from him), will be fine with the appointments.

I don’t see Bernie as pragmatic or realistic. I don’t particularly mind moving toward some of his key policies, but don’t think it’s realistic or wise to make such drastic changes at one time. I think Warren appears similar, given her approaches during debates and find her tone condescending. They are also older than I would like. I can’t see myself voting for either in my primary. If Bernie wins, I can easily see him not delivering on free tuition (I don’t like this policy) or universal healthcare (I’m in healthcare + small business owner and would probably lose income, but I’m 100% for this, but it needs to done over a long period of time, or it will have a tremendous effect on the economy from job loss and damaging middle class retirements/401Ks). Once he fails with those, his following will go back to being disinterested/disillusioned and I think the dems will then take a bath in the house and senate with the party so fractured.

I really want to like Klobaucher, but I question her temperament. There had been rumors and then, I see her saying things like she said to Pete last night about “not everyone can be perfect like you.” I think Pete was trying to raise issues and draw contrasts pretty cleanly and thought she was way over the top with that and didn’t like it. Bloomberg looks like a guy that is easily annoyed and hasn’t been challenged in a long time, so I question his temperament, as well. If these guys are going to build consensus and work with world leaders, they need to be better than that and not look like Trump. I made the original, quoted comment because I was thinking Amy sounded good last night and then she made that unnecessary remark that sounded petty.

Biden and Pete are both fairly acceptable, but I worry about Joe’s age and health and Pete’s ability to be credible in dealing with more experienced leaders. These two are sort of “good enough,” I guess. I’d still consider Klobaucher, too. I’m just not feeling excited about any of them and can actually see myself being undecided up until it’s time to vote.

The way the questions in the debates have been framed have served the "People just support Bernie because they want free stuff" narrative. They have spent an INSANE amount of time on health care- like 25% of every debate at least (it seems). Why do they do this? My (berniebro) theory is that, more than other issues, it might make Bernie look unwilling to compromise, bring in the "S" word, and be all about higher taxes.

Hard to imagine Medicare for All passing, given the situation in the Senate. The people who I know who support Bernie (most people in my circle) do so because they perceive him as less corrupt, less entangled in the military industrial complex, willing to make correct decisions that are unpopular (Iraq War), his positions on criminal justice reform and the war on drugs, environmental policy, labor rights, and corporate accountability.

Why have the questions in the debates been so consistently about healthcare policy which is unlikely to pass regardless of who wins the Presidency? Why has so little been spent on foreign policy, judges, executive orders, etc?

Bloomberg invoking "communism" and Pete saying Sanders wants to "burn it down" is getting a little ridiculous. I realize that I inhabit a bit of a leftist bubble, but Bernie's positions are definitely mainstream within that bubble (18-39 liberal arts/artsy/music/literary communities) and it's laughable to see the other candidates try to deride him as a radical.

Ultimately, the challenge is going to be working with Republicans in the Senate to get anything passed. The debates have done a poor job of framing it that way. They have also done a poor job of asking about foreign policy (probably because Bernie's general worldview including having been against the Iraq War will resonate too much /conspiracy).

Politically, would it eventually make sense for 2 of Klobuchar/Biden/Pete to drop out to support the other?

It's obvious why they focus on Health Care, because there is an obvious difference of opinion. Sanders wants Medicare for All. Warren wants a gradual 3 year build up to Medicare for All. While Biden, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar all say Medicare for All would cost too much (and piss off too many people) and think a Public Option to the ACA is the way to go.

Obviously there are differences on college debt and tuition, but that's more of a spectrum than a delineated 2 sides. And on a lot of other things the candidates agree a lot.

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Are they really saying anything new in debate #9, where health care has already been a main topic in debates 1-8? They have all talked about their plans and argued about them ad nauseum at this point. There are many more significant differences between these candidates and their political worldviews and potential policies than whether they're for Medicare for All or "Medicare for All who want it" or "Medicare for All who wish the Senate was controlled by Democrats", but they keep repeating the same debate every time.

With over 10 debates, they should have had plenty of time to talk about trade deals, carbon tax, ICE, border policy, prison reform, the war on drugs, middle east policy, European policy, South American policy, space policy, reproductive privacy, the voting rights act and fighting voter suppression, military spending, detailed tax plans, infrastructure proposals, the new season of Curb Your Enthusiasm, whether FOF 8.3's passing stats are realistic, or whatever. But a disproportionate amount of time has been spent on rehashing the same healthcare debate.

I'd like to hear them talk about what their priorities are, assuming a concession that they won't be able to fulfill all of their promises. If they're able to push through say, only half of one or two of their major objectives, which one would they spend that political capital on? What objectives do they feel they can enact without opposition, with executive powers or otherwise, if any? In other words, what would their presidency actually look like, and what is their plan to accomplish that in a challenging political climate?

Edit: Also, here comes the Russians! Curious if we can get a read on who they'd like to see oppose their guy in November.

Wisconsin is so fucking weird.

Voted twice to elect Obama.

Voted twice to elect Baldwin.

Voted to elect Trump.

After that, elected Tony Evers and kicked Walker to the curb.

After THAT, elected a conservative to replace a liberal on the state Supreme Court.

The numbers are weird, and Wisconsin is kind of an "anything goes" state right now, but it's been so all over the place in the last ten years that I'm not sure I'd trust any particular set of numbers. Any given election, Wisconsin'll put its thumb in your eye.

In every single survey I have seen of Democrats, they list health care as the number 1 issue by a wide margin. It would be very strange if that is not a main issue brought up in debates.

I do wish they had done some themed debates on issues, so they had to really dig into subjects.

Warren is going to be an issue for Bloomberg. He needs to get some legit dirt on her (and everyone else) and be prepared to answer the NDA issue better next time.

The tax return is a non-issue to me (yeah, he's got complicated taxes), the NDA and all the possible insinuations is more of a threat.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/polit...nda/index.html

Depending on how the survey is worded, I've seen "beat Trump" at #1 but yes, Healthcare is definitely a top 1-2 priority.


Agree on this.

They have talked about trade policy (USMCA to be specific) and border policy (especially when Castro and Beto were still in it). They all basically agree on reproductive privacy, prison reform, and fighting voter suppression. The biggest difference in their tax plans is health care costs. Even spent a few early debates talking about climate change (though seems to have gone a bit by the wayside after Inslee dropped out).

The differences in their personal ideal healthcare plans is kind of irrelevant. The best real-life scenario is something more moderate than even the most moderate proposal pitched.

So I think even for moderate democrats, the real question is which candidate will succeed in enacting the most progressive healthcare legislation. Which is a completely different question than who is promising the most stuff, or who has the pitched most desirable theoretical healthcare plan. The latter is just an academic school assignment.

Though I think it's fair to say the health care plans indicate how far the compromise will go. Starting at let's do a public opinion vs. starting at M4A may end up leading to a different result after negotiations are completed.

True, the old, "start high" negotiation tactic.

But there's also more to enacting legislation. If Sanders wants 10 and Mayor Pete and Klobuchar and Biden want 7, who is more likely to get 4 or 5? Sanders just because he started higher? Then why not start at 20? Or would it be those more willing to compromise on other things, who can forge better relationships, can selectively use executive power in productive ways, etc. I have no idea. They don't talk about this much.

Seems like Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Biden would be happy with 3, tbh. Warren would be better with 5. Sanders may not take anything less than 8, though. Although some people say when he was Burlington's mayor he compromised quite a bit, so who knows.

What's it matter if the GOP stays at 0?

edit: There's so much energy being used to argue policy purity when nobody is going to be able to get much accomplished. What's worse is that the person who promises the most will be punished the most for his/her failure come the mid-terms.

Well, it's not like this is happening in a vacuum. Obama got us to about a 2 or a 3 and the GOP has spent close to a decade trying to whittle it down to a 1.

And yet all the candidates act like it's a foregone conclusion, not worth discussing, that they can definitely deliver 7 - 10, and they only need to debate whether 7 is better than 10 or vice versa.

And some of them are arguing they can get 10 when the policy is unpopular with the general electorate. It's madness.

Pick popular things that are achievable and go win. Why is nobody yelling cheap insulin every ten minutes?

Dems gonna Dem

Well this isn't good...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...a77_story.html

This could be a good move or it could blow up.

Mike Bloomberg says he will release women from non-disclosure agreements

Actually, even in the Senate he would compromise. The only time he refused to go along with a slightly flawed legislation is when his vote wouldn't have mattered anyway. Heck, the ACA is the perfect example. He didn't like it at all, but he still voted for it. His record is actually way more compromising than some (including most of his supporters) would have you believe.

I can understand people voting Pete or Kobuchar. But why would Biden get thrown into that group? The guy has been wrong on so much over 30 years. Shouldn't your actions over 30+ years matter?

Lumping him in as a "realist" or "pragmatist" is comical considering he always makes the wrong decision.

Why do Democrats have such low standards?

Bernie was briefed that the Russians are trying to support his campaign. Of course the difference between him and the President, he openly condems it. This is no surprise. It happened four years ago as well.

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Maybe the conspiracies for and against Bernie will all balance out.

My guess is a lot of the attraction with Biden is the lifetime of service, with him you know what you're getting, etc. I don't think it's strange for people disgusted with Trump's incompetence to value proven competence highly. I'm far from a Biden fan, but he's a moderate with a long track record. Even if you don't like what's in it, there's nobody else in the race that really occupies that space.

"Pod Saves America" had a good post debate episode, and made some good points on Bernie. If he would just cut "Democratic Socialist", and sold his philosophy as fulfilling the American dream as proposed by Roosevelt, he would be better received. When he compared everything to Scandinavian/European socialism turns people off. Is it the same thing? Sure, pretty much. It is all in how you sell it.

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Looks like Bloomberg is trying to do some damage control

Mike Bloomberg says he will release women from non-disclosure agreements

These Obama guys sure know what the people want to hear.

One day before the Nevada caucus. What poor timing!

Those guys who won two national elections know nothing about winning elections. Right.

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Guys who lost every ounce of power the Democratic Party had and got practically nothing accomplished while in power. Just a masterclass in success.

They also knew how to beat Hillary, unlike Bernie.

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