FOOL-X Poll: Who was the best hitter in league history?

[Alan T]

I've been wanting to rename the Hitter of the Year award after one of the league's all time greats for a while. In FOOL-X history, we have several great hitters that all were considered the best in some particular category or another. I'm interested to see which of these do you all consider the best in FOOL-X history?

Please note, this is not an official vote that will automatically name the award after whoever wins this poll. I will likely offer up another official vote at a later date to actually vote for renaming the award.

My top four picks for best hitter of all time:

Kien-lung Teng
Bartolo Liriano
Luis Huerta
José Sosa

[EddieK]

I vote for Eddie Cunningham. While not a pure home run hitter he was a good threat and is the all time hits leader.

[Alan T]

Here is Eddie Cunningham for those not familiar with him:

Player Report for #2 Eddie Cunningham - StatsLab for OOTP11

[Chief Rum]

I vote the unorthodox on base machine that was Anastasio Coronado, the driver of great offenses.

Seriously, though, I picked Liriano, and it wasn't easy. Teng has a Ruthian quality to his name; he was so dominant in his time, and if he had lasted longer, there would likely be no doubt. But that combined with him spending most of his career in the bandbox that was New York's field led me to consider OPS+ (which I believe is park and era adjusted) as the determining factor. And in that respect, Liriano was surprisingly clearly the best of the four, with a career OPS+ over 180.

Liriano is a player I remember well, but he was in the other league, and never really impacted my team, since the Hibbies never really even went to the playoffs during his career. Teng was one to be feared, as I said. And Huerta was a consistent thorn in my side, as Montreal_GM's centerpiece to his powerhouse teams on the early 2000s. Sosa was before my time in the league. So Liriano is a mild surprise pick for me.

[hyde4us11]

Jose Sosa

He was drafted very early in the league history. He set the tone for all the great hitters that followed. 14 time AS and 8 time hitter of the year. 574 HR as well as a lifetime .321 AVG.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Here is Eddie Cunningham for those not familiar with him:

Player Report for #2 Eddie Cunningham - StatsLab for OOTP11

I remember near the end of his career, when Eddie needed to do some things with his team and was offering Cunningham around. I many times considered trading for him, even in the last years of his career, but OF was not much of an issue for my teams at that time.

[CleBrownsfan]

When I get time today I'll look at the nominees and post my vote...

[ekcut]

Not sure if non-X'ers are invited to vote, but as an ex-xer I can say that Sosa was the man I feared the most.

Sure Teng had the best numbers...by far, but he played his career in such a hitters park.
So he loses out on an honor that may have been his, had he played anywhere else.

Also, as stated previously, Sosa was the FIRST star and the early face of the league. Being first, has special meaning to me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Not sure if non-X'ers are invited to vote

Sure, this is an open conversation. Even non-league members can join in if they want

[CleBrownsfan]

I don't know how I didn't think to take NY's park into consideration when choosing. I was about to vote for Teng - but I'm changing my vote to Sosa.

[Tasan]

When I think of "hitter", I think of this guy: Player Report for #11 Robby LaVergne - StatsLab for OOTP11

Of course, he was a Lion, so I'm quite a bit biased, but he had 200+ hits a season from age 21 to age 34.

[Alan T]

My own take on the four that I listed:

Sosa - Somewhat the grand-daddy of FOOL-X hitters. He probably is the closest comparison to Tanaka from the other FOOL league that I can think of. Sosa was the first premiere slugger in this league and now almost 100 years later still is among the top in most offensive categories.

Liriano - Probably in my mind the best all around player that I can remember. It seemed every year he was putting up numbers that no one else could even compare with. Not as much of a slugger as some guys, but he would be the Ted Williams of FOOL-X

Teng - Was one of my favorite players to watch. If Liriano is the Ted Williams of FOOL-X, then Teng has to be the Babe Ruth. Yes he had a very offensive ballpark, one that favored him immensely but if you take the ballpark out of the picture, and consider park neutralized stats, he still is probably the second best all around hitter in FOOL-X history.

Huerta - Maybe a blend of Sosa and Liriano here in that Huerta was a hit machine, but also had a bunch of power and ability to hit into gaps. He also had a great eye, leading the league in walks many many times.

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by Alan T

My own take on the four that I listed:

Sosa - Somewhat the grand-daddy of FOOL-X hitters. He probably is the closest comparison to Tanaka from the other FOOL league that I can think of. Sosa was the first premiere slugger in this league and now almost 100 years later still is among the top in most offensive categories.

Liriano - Probably in my mind the best all around player that I can remember. It seemed every year he was putting up numbers that no one else could even compare with. Not as much of a slugger as some guys, but he would be the Ted Williams of FOOL-X

Teng - Was one of my favorite players to watch. If Liriano is the Ted Williams of FOOL-X, then Teng has to be the Babe Ruth. Yes he had a very offensive ballpark, one that favored him immensely but if you take the ballpark out of the picture, and consider park neutralized stats, he still is probably the second best all around hitter in FOOL-X history.

Huerta - Maybe a blend of Sosa and Liriano here in that Huerta was a hit machine, but also had a bunch of power and ability to hit into gaps. He also had a great eye, leading the league in walks many many times.

I like this assessment. Will you vote please Alan?

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by EddieK

I vote for Eddie Cunningham. While not a pure home run hitter he was a good threat and is the all time hits leader.

Eddie Cunningham is not in the HOF.

That should be fixed! Only a BS league would not have the all time hits leader in the Hall of Fame!! (See what I did there?)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Eddie Cunningham is not in the HOF.

That should be fixed! Only a BS league would not have the all time hits leader in the Hall of Fame!! (See what I did there?)

I agree fully!

(Cunningham was not eligible for the hall of fame though until this year due to the 5 year rule I implemented forever ago.)

[Alan T]

Actually sorry, Cunningham is eligible next year, not this year.

[EddieK]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Eddie Cunningham is not in the HOF.

That should be fixed! Only a BS league would not have the all time hits leader in the Hall of Fame!! (See what I did there?)

He's the Pete Rose of our HOF

[Commo_Soldier]

After looking at things, I voted for Teng. He is the career leader in 5 batting categories, with fewer games played than any of the other players. While he did play in a hitters park, it seemed as if though looking at the park stats, that the hitters park he played in existed until 2008. However, even after the park was adjusted to be more normal, he still put up very big numbers, despite being at the end of his career. I think regardless if he played as much as some of the others, even in a non-hitters park he would have put up the numbers he did. So that is my reasoning, from the outside looking in.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

After looking at things, I voted for Teng. He is the career leader in 5 batting categories, with fewer games played than any of the other players. While he did play in a hitters park, it seemed as if though looking at the park stats, that the hitters park he played in existed until 2008. However, even after the park was adjusted to be more normal, he still put up very big numbers, despite being at the end of his career. I think regardless if he played as much as some of the others, even in a non-hitters park he would have put up the numbers he did. So that is my reasoning, from the outside looking in.

I think Teng received alot of negative backlash in the league the same way the Yankees often do when talking to MLB fans. The park was a huge bullseye for everyone's scorn.

I've commented many times that comparing park neutralized data, Teng still stand with virtually anyone for many of the stats. I don't know if he was as pure a hitter as Liriano, but easily a valid choice for the best ever.

I think the poll is actually going pretty close to how I imagined it would. The top three Liriano, Teng and Sosa all have valid reasons to claim the greatest hitter in FOOL-X history, and it is interesting to see everyone's viewpoints on the subject.

[TeachEnEspanol]

I was also not around for the careers of these guys so I have to talk as an outsider. You all know that numbers mean very little to me, but I looked at each one for consistency, longevity of careers, and overall contributions. I might be alone on this but I like what Alan wrote about Huerta kind of being the best of both worlds as far as a combination of talents. Also I can't ignore the fact that he won more Hitter of the Year awards and was an All-star more times than any of the other candidates.

[ekcut]

I was hoping for a clear cut hero to emerge.
Each of these players can have arguements made for or against. To me, picking one above the others is a disservice to the rest.
Which is too bad as I think being able to name our awards after actual league players is a unique feature that only our leagues can honestly boast about!
I'm not saying we shouldn't still do it, but it's just a slight disapointment that there is no "Cloud parting, sunbeam shining on, while angels sing and harps play" revelation that every says..."Yes...that is the player!!!"

[TeachEnEspanol]

Originally Posted by ekcut

"Cloud parting, sunbeam shining on, while angels sing and harps play" revelation that every says..."Yes...that is the player!!!"

[Alan T]

I've been thinking about this alot, and I agree with ekcut, that putting one of the big three over the other two does seem as a disservice. That basically leaves us with the option of:

1) Figuring out how to fit all three into immortal status with awards of some kind

or

2) shelving things for another 50-60 years and see if anyone else emerges.


I don't really want to do #2, because we've gone 80 years already. I want to remember and recognize the past and honor some of these really special players in the FOOL traditional style.

Looking at things further, here is how each three breaks down award wise for their careers:

Sosa - RoY, 8 BoY, 14 AS, 7 Commish

Teng - RoY, 7 BoY, 13 AS, 2 Best fielder, 5 commish

Liriano - 8 BoY, 12 AS, 4 Commish


It got me to thinking, what if we did the following:

Rename the Commissioner's Award, the one award I pick each season and give to the player that I feel is most valuable to their team for that season to the Jose Sosa Award. Sosa won the most Commissioner Awards of the three, and perhaps of any player in league history (I am not sure of the last, but he has to be up there).

Rename the Hitter of the Year award to the Bartolo Liriano Award. Liriano won more Hitter of the Year awards than Teng and just as many as Sosa. His 8 Hitter of the Year awards are tied for second all time (only Huerta had more).

Rename the Rookie of the Year Award to the Kien-lung Teng Award. Teng won the Rookie of the year award in a season that saw him also win a hitter of the month award and place in the top three for the hitter of the year award in the same season.


Any thoughts to that proposal? This is not an official vote, just looking for feedback to decide if we should pursue this further or not.

[CleBrownsfan]

I actually like this ideal a lot... I'm all for it!

[hyde4us11]

Looks good to me. Sosa was just so special to me that I don't care which award is named after him. Any of them is a true honor to have.

[TeachEnEspanol]

Great idea Alan! I'm for it if everyone else is.

[ekcut]

A perfect solution! (Well except if you were a fan of Huerta who is the only player on the poll not to get honoured! )

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ekcut

A perfect solution! (Well except if you were a fan of Huerta who is the only player on the poll not to get honoured! )

If it makes you feel any better, I remember Huerta very well. He appears to me nightly in nightmares.

[Tasan]

Sounds like a good idea Alan.

[buckinbranco]

I like this idea, it's a great compromise.