Painting before selling a house...

[rowech]

My wife and I are debating this back and forth and I'm curious what others think. We both agree we need to paint the ceilings to our house before selling. The walls are a different sory. We painted five years ago and it still looks fine. My contention is that it's not a big deal to repaint the walls because somebody will want to paint them what they want. She believes we need to repaint, probably in a neutral color, to better sell the house.

Thoughts?

[fantom1979]

What color are the walls now? If they are a "normal" color, I would say that they are fine.

[gkb]

We sold our house about three years ago and our real estate agent recommended that we repaint a couple of our rooms that were a darker color. They were "normal" neutral colors. So if they're normal and not too dark, you should be fine.

[Kodos]

In a tough market for sellers, you should do everything you can to help. Repaint to neutral colors.

[rowech]

They're not neutral. A very light blue.

[rowech]

I can't bear to tell her she's right.

[JPhillips]

What does your realtor think?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by rowech

They're not neutral. A very light blue.

I thought that was pretty much neutral? If they were Navy blue you obviously paint.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by rowech

They're not neutral. A very light blue.

What kind of light blue? If you stand back and try to be as objective as possible (maybe get a friend or family member to do it)...could somebody think "Ugh...looks like the sky took a crap in here"? If in doubt..."taupe" it out.

Agree with others on the point of doing whatever you can "cheaply" to make your house as desirable to as many people as possible...especially in this market. Maybe the better way to look at it is to make it the "least offensive" as possible. So pick up and store as much as possible that you dont ABSOLUTELY NEED to function. I've found that while most buyers would tell you they aren't worried about repainting or the clutter in a home...it tends to have a degree of influence in their "feeling" about a property...and potentially overlook the home...all else being equal.

Or at least this has been my experience in selling 3 homes of my own, and helping a few friends sell their own, over the years.

[rowech]

It's definitely not a sky took a crap in here. The realtor said it's sellable in its current color but that he would recommend painting it.

[JPhillips]

If you trust your realtor I'd paint it. If you don't trust your realtor I'd get a new one.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If you trust your realtor I'd paint it. If you don't trust your realtor I'd get a new one.

+1

Repaint to neutral colors, like an off-white or vanilla color. Even a light beige might work.

[johnnyshaka]

Funny, we're debating the same thing...we've been in the house for 8 years now and have only painted my girls' rooms while the rest of the house is still the original taupe colour. We're at a crossroads right now with that...and what to do about the flooring...the lino is starting to come up at a few seams.

I'm leaning towards painting and replacing the flooring on the main floor (some lino and some carpet and will probably put down laminate of some kind) and I'm sure when we do get a realtor inbovled, they will say the same thing.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

In a tough market for sellers, you should do everything you can to help. Repaint to neutral colors.

Neutral colors aren't always the best solution - sometimes more bold colors enhance a room. Sometimes neutral colors are just bland, and more bold colors show off a room effectively.

But (you knew there was a "but" coming), I agree 100% with JPhillips - if your Realtor thinks you should repaint and you trust your Realtor, repaint. If you don't trust your Realtor, get a new one you do trust.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Funny, we're debating the same thing...we've been in the house for 8 years now and have only painted my girls' rooms while the rest of the house is still the original taupe colour. We're at a crossroads right now with that...and what to do about the flooring...the lino is starting to come up at a few seams.

I'm leaning towards painting and replacing the flooring on the main floor (some lino and some carpet and will probably put down laminate of some kind) and I'm sure when we do get a realtor inbovled, they will say the same thing.

We have some other things to do besides paint, including, unfortunately, putting in a new shower and new walls for our bathroom. It amazes me that I'm going to end up spending 5000-6000 dollars just to get my house in shape to sell it. I of course being naive with these things said, I'd just take the 5000 dollar loss and was immediately told that not doing the work would probably cost me 10-15k in today's market.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

It amazes me that I'm going to end up spending 5000-6000 dollars just to get my house in shape to sell it.

Count your blessings. If I could get out of the things that are needed on the house in Monticello to truly get it ready for open market sale for $5k I'd be turning f'n cartwheels. (Hell, I'd be doing acrobatics if I could get it ready for twice that amount).

[Marc Vaughan]

I've always found I spend more money doing up a house to sell it then I do when I'm living there ... its weird but its always the case, especially in the current market.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Unless you're absolutely certain of a positive ROI (or enjoy spending yourweekends painting), don't bother.

I'd have to say it's pretty hard not to recoup the costs & then some on the deal. My mother-in-law closes on a house here tomorrow and was willing to eat up to an additional $5k (or more if necessary) in sales price on around $2k worth of work just to avoid the massive headaches of finding workers, getting quotes, and most of all living through the process of having the work done.

I'd have to think the rate of ROI would be affected by the target for the sale but I've never lost anything on work done before a sale and off hand can't think of anyone who has.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Unless the realtor can prove that it will raise the house value 10-15K (which they can't), I woudn't do it. Realtor$ are more skeevy than lawyer$ and would love the opportunity for you to put in tons of your own hard work and money to raise the value of the property. What do they care if their estimate if off and it really only increases the value of the property by $5000? Unless you're absolutely certain of a positive ROI (or enjoy spending yourweekends painting), don't bother.

Well, considering this is a buyer's market, I'd personally do what I could to make the house more attractive. I get the point you are trying to make about realtors, but also consider that realtors rely on repeat business & referrals, so if they are full of shit they are less likely to succeed.

From everything I've seen and read, the work you put into sprucing up a house almost always more than recoups itself in sales price, often by a factor of 2 to 3 times.

Think about when you're looking at houses - the ones that look nice and new (or newly remodeled) and well designed really stick out.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by rowech

My wife and I are debating this back and forth and I'm curious what others think.

Thoughts?

She's right. Duh.

[RainMaker]

Re-paint. Walls always look fine to the owners because they live there and have adjusted to the color. New paint makes any room look awesome.

[PilotMan]

Yeah, she's right, you need to paint the walls.

[fantom1979]

Just a couple of amateur selling tips from someone who is looking to buy right now:

1. Get the landscaping looking nice. I am not saying that you need to build a wall or anything, but I am shocked by some of the lawns I see from people trying to sell.

2. Get some color fliers, put them with your for sale sign. Don't forget to restock them when they run out. Put your asking price on the flier. My wife and I walk around the neighborhood, and we look for those fliers. No flier, we aren't interested.

3. Make sure your Realtor puts up a bunch of nice looking images on their company website for your house. I am shocked to see how many houses for sale have no images, or just one outside shot. An image of the front and back yards, one of every bedroom, the bathrooms, kitchen, living room, and basement (if you have one) are nice. If the house doesn't sell for a while, update the outside images to be season specific. When I am looking at houses online right now, I am suspicious of houses that have snow in the image.

[Kodos]

My wife watches a ton of those "Designed To Sell" shows (and consequently, so do I), and they always emphasize painting and getting rid of clutter. I know from personal experience, we did that stuff for our last house, and it sold rather quickly. Of course, that was just before the bubble burst in the housing market.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

My wife watches a ton of those "Designed To Sell" shows (and consequently, so do I), and they always emphasize painting and getting rid of clutter. I know from personal experience, we did that stuff for our last house, and it sold rather quickly. Of course, that was just before the bubble burst in the housing market.

The housing bubble burst on your planet too?

[Kodos]

Yep. And then the whole planet blew up.

Actually, that may have been Superman's planet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

unless you did, you're just guessing that the endeavor reaps a positive ROI.

As a matter of fact, I know of at least three houses that were generating zero interest prior to cosmetic work that all sold within a couple of weeks of completion of that work. But I'm fairly sure you'll just attribute those cases to coincidence so I doubt it really matters.

To be frank, you sound like a great deal like someone who knows virtually nothing about real estate and in particular absolutely nothing about the psychology of buyers. You're sure as hell free to believe whatever you like but you can shove your tone squarely up your ass.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As a matter of fact, I know of at least three houses that were generating zero interest prior to cosmetic work that all sold within a couple of weeks of completion of that work. But I'm fairly sure you'll just attribute those cases to coincidence so I doubt it really matters.

To be frank, you sound like a great deal like someone who knows virtually nothing about real estate and in particular absolutely nothing about the psychology of buyers. You're sure as hell free to believe whatever you like but you can shove your tone squarely up your ass.

I hate to admit this but I have to say I LIKE this post.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I hate to admit this but I have to say I LIKE this post.

JiMG has been on a roll lately.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

3. Make sure your Realtor puts up a bunch of nice looking images on their company website for your house. I am shocked to see how many houses for sale have no images, or just one outside shot. An image of the front and back yards, one of every bedroom, the bathrooms, kitchen, living room, and basement (if you have one) are nice. If the house doesn't sell for a while, update the outside images to be season specific. When I am looking at houses online right now, I am suspicious of houses that have snow in the image.

+5,345

How are there houses in 2009 that have real estate listings without an electronic gallery showing at least a passable image of every room in the house, the front yard, and the back yard?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

+5,345

How are there houses in 2009 that have real estate listings without an electronic gallery showing at least a passable image of every room in the house, the front yard, and the back yard?

Having gone through two purchases in the past three years or so (ours & now my mother-in-law's) it's quite common to still see one picture listings. Maybe one house out of ten has more than five pictures & rarely have I seen one that showed the back yard unless there was a significant feature that added five figures in value (i.e. pool, barn/stable, tennis court, lakefront, etc). And the only front yard pictures I ever really see are those that are actually front of house shots & the front yard is pretty much incidental.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Having gone through two purchases in the past three years or so (ours & now my mother-in-law's) it's quite common to still see one picture listings. Maybe one house out of ten has more than five pictures & rarely have I seen one that showed the back yard unless there was a significant feature that added five figures in value (i.e. pool, barn/stable, tennis court, lakefront, etc). And the only front yard pictures I ever really see are those that are actually front of house shots & the front yard is pretty much incidental.

1) By front yard I mean the.. what's it called.. elevation? The front of the house.
2) I certainly know they're out there, but they shouldn't be. There should be a picture of every room.
3) Back yard is much more important here in the city, I think. In the suburbs a backyard is mostly a backyard. In the city it determines if you have a parking space, enough room for entertaining, etc.
4) Again, here in the city the 0-1 picture properties are definitely in the minority, but I would say 30% of listings are still that way. As easy as it is to take digital pictures and include them in the MLS, I don't really get it

[lordscarlet]

dola: if there are no pictures online, I'm not looking at it. I guarantee properties lose buyers by not putting pictures online.

[molson]

It's so odd to me that people are willing to pay thousands more for a mowed lawn, painted wall, or other cosmetics. Doesn't it make far more sense to look for places that don't have those things, so that you might be the beneficiary of that "discount"?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Doesn't it make far more sense to look for places that don't have those things, so that you might be the beneficiary of that "discount"?

Depends upon the relationship between the cost & your tolerance for the aggravation of dealing with them.

Take our adventure in painting on the house we're in now. Rejects from the Venezuelan National Football Club spent over a month trying to get two rooms worth of painting right, somehow fouling up the process so much that a paint manufacturer factory rep came to Athens from Illinois and said he had no idea what they could have possibly done to the paint in order to get the result they were getting (basically a fairly deep purple was drying with the look of splotchy grape juice). Nine coats of paint and two more paint crews later, we finally reached the point of giving up/that'll have to do.

And overall our "absolutely gone by August 1" contractor and his minions finally left the premises on Halloween weekend and only then because we finally said "just go away already". And that's without even mentioning the cost overruns.

I put going through renovation/remodeling/repair somewhere on my list of things to do again somewhere below driving the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile in Iraq blindfolded after dark.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by molson

It's so odd to me that people are willing to pay thousands more for a mowed lawn, painted wall, or other cosmetics. Doesn't it make far more sense to look for places that don't have those things, so that you might be the beneficiary of that "discount"?

That's the view I take too. However, having sold/bought two houses in the last few years I've come to the conclusion you can't overestimate the irrationality of potential buyers. They may be looking to spend $100/200 thousand dollars on a house but if they see something that will need a $100 to fix they won't buy.

The mechanism whereby Jon's 5k on improvement means 15k on sale value is something like this:

Don't improve and:

1) the house simply won't sell and you'll be dropping the price 15/20k to find a buyer

2) a savvy buyer will use it as an opportunity to knock down the price on the basis of what he (opportunistically and with some considerable exaggeration) insists it will cost to fix.

So, if there's even a hint that the colour will not be appreciated, paint it.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

1) the house simply won't sell and you'll be dropping the price 15/20k to find a buyer.

This has been my own experience...and the consensus of the realtors I've known (at least the good ones anyway).

This doesn't mean you should go off and do major renovations or anything when you decide to sell...just the cheap/manual labor stuff and removal of extra miscellaneous crap (if you are inclined to be pack-rattish...which tends to be most people to differring degrees).

[lordscarlet]

The majority of Americans just aren't going to do the work on their own. That means they have to deal with contractors, as Jon said. They are also largely too stupid to tell the difference between a bad paint job and a house that is in poor condition. You have to deal with the lowest common denominator.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Please try to avoid the personal attacks. I come here to the FOFC community to escape the shit of life and don't appreciate getting attacked for posting my opinion.

And I didn't care for know it all tone of your post one damned bit, and that's putting it extremely mildly so I guess we're close to even. What I typed here is what I would have said to your face if you had said the same thing in person, so if you've got a problem with it then that's exactly what it is: your problem.

edit to add: If you don't want replies that get you called out, then check yourself and your tone before you post.

[lighthousekeeper]

i guess you were assuming some kind of tone in my post. i'm just curious about the general line of reasoning that home repairs are always resulting in positive ROI. Just the same way we question clutch, and other things flaoting in the ethers.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

i guess you were assuming some kind of tone in my post. i'm just curious about the general line of reasoning that home repairs are always resulting in positive ROI. Just the same way we question clutch, and other things flaoting in the ethers.

FWIW, I read it as being rather condescending as well, and I didn't blame JIMGa for being torqued. Maybe you didn't intend for there to be attitude in your post, but it came across that way to me.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

That's the view I take too. However, having sold/bought two houses in the last few years I've come to the conclusion you can't overestimate the irrationality of potential buyers. They may be looking to spend $100/200 thousand dollars on a house but if they see something that will need a $100 to fix they won't buy.

The mechanism whereby Jon's 5k on improvement means 15k on sale value is something like this:

Don't improve and:

1) the house simply won't sell and you'll be dropping the price 15/20k to find a buyer

2) a savvy buyer will use it as an opportunity to knock down the price on the basis of what he (opportunistically and with some considerable exaggeration) insists it will cost to fix.

So, if there's even a hint that the colour will not be appreciated, paint it.

ok since i am an actual house painter and my family business has decades of experience in this i should give my 2c. Mac is 100% right in his above post. that will happen guaranteed. a new paint job will make a house sell faster and at what you originally priced at than if you dont paint, and dont forget the woodwork. freshly painted woodwork makes a house look amazing with new painted walls. i cant tell you how many times weve painted a house for someone about to move, and they then say they wish they wernt moving because it looked so good. now before you say im just mimicing the realators because i work for them youd be wrong, i HATE working with realators and generally tell them im too busy to get to them if they call up.

ohh and heres something that hasnt been mentioned here, husbands dont buy houses, wives do. the Wives like everything looking pretty which is why spending a little to spruce up a house pays for itself. and why rotten wood and scuffed up walls turn them off because that looks like hard work or $$ to fix

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

husbands dont buy houses, wives do.

+10,000

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by rowech

I can't bear to tell her she's right.

If you think that's bad...

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Don't improve and:

1) the house simply won't sell and you'll be dropping the price 15/20k to find a buyer

2) a savvy buyer will use it as an opportunity to knock down the price on the basis of what he (opportunistically and with some considerable exaggeration) insists it will cost to fix.

...wait until that happens and then try to deal with her.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

I come here to the FOFC community to escape the shit of life

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