Harry Potter & HBP Review

[Coffee Warlord]

Haven't seen a thread on this yet. Anyone catch the midnight showing last night?

[Pyser]

as a stand-alone movie it was good

as an adaptation of book 6, not so much. the book was infinitely better

[PackerFanatic]

I am going tomorrow night - we had plans to go to the midnight show when it was coming out on Friday, then the losers had to go and change it.

[dawgfan]

Good performances, shot in an interesting way, great effects. If you've read the books, a pretty good visualization. But even with the movie being long, it's still too crammed with stuff, and a lot of ideas and themes are barely touched on. If I were watching the movie without ever reading any of the books or seeing the previous movies, I'd probably be totally lost.

I've heard the last book will be split into 2 films - good idea, as there's simply too much going on in the later books to adequately be told in one standard length film.

As an aside, I'm loving the perks from being a Warner Bros employee now (like free, exclusive screenings of big WB films like Harry Potter...)

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Pyser

as a stand-alone movie it was good

as an adaptation of book 6, not so much. the book was infinitely better

I agree with both statements. Most distressing from an adaptation perspective was the complete absence of the elves. There was some really great stuff between Dobby and Kreacher in the book that I think would have played very well in the movie. And I think it will cause problems for the film version of Deathly Hallows.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I agree with both statements. Most distressing from an adaptation perspective was the complete absence of the elves. There was some really great stuff between Dobby and Kreacher in the book that I think would have played very well in the movie. And I think it will cause problems for the film version of Deathly Hallows.

Eh, I have no problems keeping the elves out. Mainly because it means no implementation of SPEW.

[ISiddiqui]

And really, in the end game, the elves don't have all that much to do with the finale (a few thing about Dobby and Kreacher they can throw in Parts 1 and 2 of DH). They work in the book as an interesting side story, but for a movie, that's prime cutting out material.

[Pyser]

spew was like book 4, wasnt it?

my biggest problem is this movie didnt feel special. i dont feel like i visited a magical world. also, the book is all about voldemorts backstory. the movie wasnt. at all.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Pyser

I dont feel like i visited a magical world.

Man, you and me both. Oh wait, what are we talking about?

[Drake]

I sometimes think I'm the only person on the planet who has seen all of these movies but hasn't read any of the books.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Good performances, shot in an interesting way, great effects. If you've read the books, a pretty good visualization. But even with the movie being long, it's still too crammed with stuff, and a lot of ideas and themes are barely touched on. If I were watching the movie without ever reading any of the books or seeing the previous movies, I'd probably be totally lost.

I've heard the last book will be split into 2 films - good idea, as there's simply too much going on in the later books to adequately be told in one standard length film.

As an aside, I'm loving the perks from being a Warner Bros employee now (like free, exclusive screenings of big WB films like Harry Potter...)

What do you do for them?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Drake

I sometimes think I'm the only person on the planet who has seen all of these movies but hasn't read any of the books.

No, my wife is the same.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Pyser

as a stand-alone movie it was good

as an adaptation of book 6, not so much. the book was infinitely better

That is something I DEFINITELY didn't want to hear. I hate movies not being like the books, biggest pet peeve ever,

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

What do you do for them?

Video games. WB Games bought one of the Midway studios I work for.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

That is something I DEFINITELY didn't want to hear. I hate movies not being like the books, biggest pet peeve ever,

Not to specifically target you, but I wonder why people feel this way? What makes a good movie and what makes a good book are not always the same. I mean, both need to have a compelling story, sure. But one is a format where length isn't so important; the other is a format where length is very important. As well, there are major differences in the ability of both mediums to tell stories.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well the way I see it, if the book was good enough to sell millions of copies and have a horde of followers then why deviate away from it? I understand time constraints but cutting whole characters out? And changing the way the book ends? I wonder if the authors of the books have say in the movie or if they just let the directors do what they want.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

No, my wife is the same.

I am the same too

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Well the way I see it, if the book was good enough to sell millions of copies and have a horde of followers then why deviate away from it? I understand time constraints but cutting whole characters out? And changing the way the book ends? I wonder if the authors of the books have say in the movie or if they just let the directors do what they want.

JK Rowling has final say in all creative matters, unless something has changed.

[chadritt]

My understanding was always that she TECHNICALLY had no real power over the films. Theyre just not dumb enough to shut her out and they gladly welcome any input she gives. Ultimately though I dont believe she has final say over anything.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Well the way I see it, if the book was good enough to sell millions of copies and have a horde of followers then why deviate away from it? I understand time constraints but cutting whole characters out? And changing the way the book ends? I wonder if the authors of the books have say in the movie or if they just let the directors do what they want.

Why deviate? Because of time constraints. Filming all of the Half Blood Price would probably consume 6+ hours. So things have to cut or compressed in order to meet a running time of 2.5 hours (and it's a big reason why I'm happy they decided to split The Deathly Hallows into two films, as it should provide the space needed to do justice to the lengthy and relatively complex plot).

I'm not defending particular choices made in this movie - I don't agree with some of the deviations made from the book, and I think that even with the things they cut out of the film, they still left too many things hanging or given too little explanation or follow-up - but time constraints are a major difference between books and films.

As well, the nature of the two mediums is such that certain storytelling methods work better in one medium over the other.

Trying to simply present a complete visualization of books into films doesn't necessarily result in a good film.

In many ways, I think people are often better off watching a film adaptation first and read the book later. I had never read the Lord of the Rings trilogy before seeing the movies, and I think this was best - I really enjoyed the films, and wasn't so disappointed with the changes that occurred between the books and the films. I appreciate each version on their own merits, and having not read the books first, I didn't feel any sense of disappointment in what was changed or left out in the films.

[GrantDawg]

I enjoyed the movie, but was somewhat disappointed in what was left out and what was added for no particular reason. I really enjoyed the funny side of this movie.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Pyser

also, the book is all about voldemorts backstory. the movie wasnt. at all.

Yeah, that just irritated everyone that i talked to and who read the book and even some that didn´t.
They really blew it with that for me as that made the book work essentially and finally established a personality for Voldemort going beyond the obvious. Especially since they did a good job by bringing in Fienes and make him more than the token bad guy. And then they cut the main theme of the book and essentially the whole story out ? I mean, bottom line the moral of the story is about how Voldemort and Harry are people that have been dealt a similar card and went in oposite direction despite that and that you can do the right thing even when doing the wrong thing is so easy, especially with the kind of power they posess.

Kind of feels they went the easy route putting more of an emphasis on the puberty portion of the book as that obviously attracts non-fans to it more and also was propably easier to orchestrate.
It is fine in a way that they showed those stuff, since Rowling also put a lot of emphasis on it, but they really seemd to have made a decicion between those 2 plots which are the most featured in the book and chose 1 to cut down a lot.

I didn´t have much of a problem with the ending, that kind of makes sense regarding the book 7 ending.

In terms of filmmaking it´s a solid piece of work and the characters are well represented and imo they did an exceptional job making the movies, character and actors "grow" together over the course of the now 7 movies. I mean, they also got extremely lucky with how the 3 leads turned out and actually have developed greater skills with greater challenges. Or call it good casting ...
Overall the cast from lead roles to supporting roles and even smaller roles is pretty good imo, some pretty good acting (most of the older support actors are highly experienced and decorated on stage before they got into film, the old school way), and almost never feels awkward.

[spleen1015]

Wait, so how much of the Voldemort portions of the book did they cut out? That, to me, was the most interesting part of the book. I could do without the teenage love story because you knew that was coming anyway.

I have a feeling I won't like this.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Pyser

as a stand-alone movie it was good

as an adaptation of book 6, not so much. the book was infinitely better

This.

Movie itself was excellent. Book was better, and some things were left on the cutting floor that I question, but as a movie, it was very well done.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Wait, so how much of the Voldemort portions of the book did they cut out?

basically all but 2 memories :

Spoiler

-him meeting Dumbledore in the Orphanage getting to know he´s a wizard

-him talking to Slughorn about Horcruxes

It´s definitely still a good movie although i disagree about it nor being a big factor to the movie. I mean, even the movie adaption is a series of 8 films that would have called for and benefitted from showing those flashbacks more prominently as they go to the very root of the theme of the story as it is really is showing harry how he is different from Voldemort in every aspect beyond the superficial similarities.
Which is again highly important for the very end of book 7.

But still a more than solid film, really had a good time and will propably enjoy it even more viewing it on DVD in a couple months when i´m not constantly trying to compare book and film, which you (at least i) simply can´t help but do when watching films-from-books the first time

If anyone wants to see a bad example of books being filmed watch "Inkheart" (book by german author Cornelia Funke). Now that is how you pick apart a perfectly good story and make it a wild collection of bits and pieces ...

[ISiddiqui]

I thought it was really well done. Possibly the best movie of the series. Yes, they cut out a lot of the Voldemort memories, but let's be honest, they work very, very well in a book setting. Not so much in a movie setting. And the movie already was 2.5 hours in length.

I really liked how this movie seemed to be the first one that kept the humor of the books. Other movies had funny parts, but this one was hilarious throughout (until the end) and it was very refreshing.

Obviously the book packed more of an emotional punch in the end, but I can understand why stuff was cut from the movie to not make it span for 3 hours.

[Chief Rum]

I think I enjoy the movie better if I try to view it as a movie instead of comparing it to the book. There were just a ton of things from the book that were changed or cut out. But when viewed as a stand alone, you see all the main components needed to set up the final two films have been included. I can't think of anything that was completely left out that is needed for the plot to go on well (or at least that can't be re-introduced, such as the elves).

I'll spoiler further discussion, although I would figure if you haven't seen the movie yet, why the hell are you in this thread?

Spoiler

I think they included enough about Voldemort in the memories to get the points across, but, yes, I agree, to make him more real (and more evil), you really do need to see more of those memories.

Although I liked the Ginny-Harry romance in the movie, I was completely disappointed they didn't use the scene from the book. When Harry spontaneously kisses Ginny in the celebration, that was one of my favorite moments in the whole series.

I think they made a mistake in cutting out the battle. I understand where the directors are coming from, but we're talking a battle that takes place two whole movies from now, and one which will be quite abit different. I think they missed out on a chance to really add some fireworks at the end, and maybe make Dumbledore's loss even more powerful (and I felt that was handled pretty well, even so).

They REALLY needed to include Neville more, IMO. He was basically relegated to the waiter spot at Slughorn's wedding, and no mention of his parents. For someone who has more and more importance in Book Seven, I feel he should have been featured more.

I was also disappointed to not see Bill and Fleur in this one. I think they're going to have to do a lot of introducing and "re-introducing" of some characters they didn't give much (or any) time to in this one to get the plot back to any semblance of what it was in the books.

The attack on the Weasley home, that was added right? If it was added for excitement purposes, why not cut it out but keep the battle in the school? It seemed an odd change to make (although, for a scene out of nowhere, I enjoyed it outside of its comparison to the book).

Was anyone else struck at the end of the movie by the similarity between the three main characters looking off into the sunset, and Leia and Luke's scene at the window in Empire? I was waiting for the emotional Star Wars music to cue.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Pyser

as a stand-alone movie it was good

as an adaptation of book 6, not so much. the book was infinitely better

Thats not promising imho - I loved the early Harry Potter books but found the last one feeling contrived as the author tried hard to wrap up all the loose threads at the cost of the storyline imho.

PS - Any idea if this will be showing on Atlantic flights around mid-August?

[saldana]

i pretty much echo the sentiments of Chief Rum

Spoiler

the burrow burning down was a stupid made up scene...i particulary hated the fact that 7 wizards stood there like a bunch of doofuses and none of them bothered to use the charm that the 16 year old kid knows to make water come out of his wand to put the fire out...i would have much rather had the scene where tom riddle goes to the fat ladys house and she shows him hufflepuffs cup

the scene just before dumbledore dies was equally as stupid when snape comes up behind him and tells him to be quiet and he listens and just stands there....i dont understand why they didnt do it exactly the same as it was in the book

way too many memories were excluded for me, and way too many other things were left out that are gonna make it odd to see how they button it all back together for TDH.

[Peregrine]

I really enjoyed the movie, thought it was very well done. It certainly was missing a lot of material from the book, but that's basically a given. If it had all of Voldemort's memories, people would be complaining about how it lacked something else. Personally I wish they would go ahead and film some of the left-out stuff and then have a longer version on DVD.

[Arles]

I think people are being way too critical. Bill, Charlie, Fleur (outside of the 4th) and Kreacher (moments in the 5th) have been either not included to this point or barely touched in the movies. To add them in now wouldn't make a ton of sense to movie-only watchers. It would have added an hour to go into the Bill-Fleur wedding back story and dobbit-kreacher just to be able to include those scenes. And I don't think too many people want to see a 4-hour movie.

You have to look at this as a different story than the 6 books. It's almost like comparing an unabridged and abridged version of an audiobook. I would have preferred some differences (more of a battle at the end for one), but I think this movie did a pretty good job of laying the ground work for the final chapter. When I read the book, I looked on it as a "Empire Strikes Back" type story and that's what I got from this movie. All in all, I thought it was well done (esp the cinematography - which may be the best of the series).

[Neon_Chaos]

After watching HBP, I essentially have lowered my expectations for the final two movies.

For me, the HP movies are, for all intents and purposes, just an accompaniment to the books.

Spoiler

Removing the battle in Hogwarts was disappointing. The climactic scene where Snape kills Dumbledore should have been handled better.

[Izulde]

It struck me as a very flat movie and in many ways the worst in the series.

[CamEdwards]

I saw this last night with my soon-to-be 9-year old son. He was bored after an hour, and I was bored about 15 minutes later. Easily my least favorite of the movies.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think people are being way too critical. Bill, Charlie, Fleur (outside of the 4th) and Kreacher (moments in the 5th) have been either not included to this point or barely touched in the movies. To add them in now wouldn't make a ton of sense to movie-only watchers. It would have added an hour to go into the Bill-Fleur wedding back story and dobbit-kreacher just to be able to include those scenes. And I don't think too many people want to see a 4-hour movie.

You have to look at this as a different story than the 6 books. It's almost like comparing an unabridged and abridged version of an audiobook. I would have preferred some differences (more of a battle at the end for one), but I think this movie did a pretty good job of laying the ground work for the final chapter. When I read the book, I looked on it as a "Empire Strikes Back" type story and that's what I got from this movie. All in all, I thought it was well done (esp the cinematography - which may be the best of the series).

Completely agreed. I've heard people say X, Y, Z haven't been included and that's REALLY important to the story. But really, a lot of those things aren't all that important. They just flesh out the backstory. And that's easily done in book form, but when making a movie, that stuff just takes up time. Perhaps in an extended edition they can be included, but 2.5 hours is really as long as they'll let you go in one movie (unless its like the last movie of a long series).

[Crapshoot]

Yeah, I'm not too unhappy about Bill and Fleur stuff; its nice filler, and you can show the wedding in 7 without the backstory. The lack of a final fight scene and the Bill bit is bothersome to some extent. I would have also shown the funeral for Dumbledore. That being said, the Ron-Hermoine thing was annoying as shown; ie, the hostility (ie, why Ron was hostile to begin with ) wasn't explained, and what drove him to "Won-Won" status in the first place.

[Cringer]

Ok, my wife and I, nor my daughter, are NOT readers of the Harry Potter books. My wife has always loved the Harry Potter movies though, my daughter and I have liked them. Just got back from seeing this one and boy am I glad to hear there should be two more movies. Talk about one crap ending to what seemed like a pretty decent movie most of the way through. Maybe I was a little impatient by the end or something, but the whole thing seemed pretty anti-climatic and it felt like a bit of a waste of time and money. Knowing for sure two more movies are left though makes it less of a waste. Like I said, I enjoyed most of it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Ok, my wife and I, nor my daughter, are NOT readers of the Harry Potter books. My wife has always loved the Harry Potter movies though, my daughter and I have liked them. Just got back from seeing this one and boy am I glad to hear there should be two more movies. Talk about one crap ending to what seemed like a pretty decent movie most of the way through. Maybe I was a little impatient by the end or something, but the whole thing seemed pretty anti-climatic and it felt like a bit of a waste of time and money. Knowing for sure two more movies are left though makes it less of a waste. Like I said, I enjoyed most of it.

Spoiler

There was supposed to be a battle in Hogwarts between the Order of the Phoenix and the Death Eaters right before Snape kills Dumbledore.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Spoiler

There was supposed to be a battle in Hogwarts between the Order of the Phoenix and the Death Eaters right before Snape kills Dumbledore.

Eh, someone may have said that up above but it kind of went over my head a little at the time. It may have made the ending a little better, shame it was left out I guess.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Izulde

It struck me as a very flat movie and in many ways the worst in the series.

Ditto

I am a 30 something male that has read none of the books, but watched all the movies.

This could be my last HP movie as this movie had a very made for TV quality to it. Not a single thing in this movie stands out to me as being worth the price of admission.



EDIT to add; The best thing about this movie was getting to see the preview to Sherlock Holmes. WOW, that looks like it is going to be a great movie with Downey and Law. Nothing like the old Sherlock Holmes I remember.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

Ditto

I am a 30 something male that has read none of the books, but watched all the movies.

This could be my last HP movie as this movie had a very made for TV quality to it. Not a single thing in this movie stands out to me as being worth the price of admission.



EDIT to add; The best thing about this movie was getting to see the preview to Sherlock Holmes. WOW, that looks like it is going to be a great movie with Downey and Law. Nothing like the old Sherlock Holmes I remember.

Stay calm, madam. I am a professional.

Beneath this pillow lies the key to my freedom. (or something like that)

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

If I were watching the movie without ever reading any of the books or seeing the previous movies, I'd probably be totally lost.

See my previous thread on this topic where I felt lost completely by the Order of the Pheonix movie, and then went back and read the entire book series and now know what was going on in that movie, and it makes far more sense going back to watch that movie now.

My wife and I hope to see HBP soon, this is the first of the movies where we've read the book before seeing the movie for the first time.

[Tasan]

In making these movies, it seems like they never read the next book before committing to film. There's so many things that are either going to have to be dropped completely or need a lot of "catch up" explanation in the next 2 in order to get things right.

[ISiddiqui]

Please see my Post #35 .

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Please see my Post #35 .

I did and I don't agree with you much at all. Sure, there are some minor things here and there that can be omitted, but there are some very story critical things that are going to need to be caught up on or completely skipped (therefore making a far lesser story). I'll make a list of things here in a little bit, because I'm sure the "you say this but you don't back it up" post is inevitably coming.

[ISiddiqui]

I actually don't think there are very many critical things that are super pressing or can't easily be fit into 5 hours (two 2.5 hour movies). I think a lot of stuff can be phased out because they really are necessary for the main plot. Lot's of, to put it in a certain way, "Tom Bombadil" stuff.

[gstelmack]

Harry Potter Books vs Movies (SPOILERS included) - Front Office Football Central

[gstelmack]

And ISiddiqui should check out some of his comments in that thread ;-)

[ISiddiqui]

All I said was that the side stories are some of the best parts, and they are... but that's why books are always better than movies.

[Arles]

I'll take each item, one by one:

They haven't spent much time on the relationships between James, Lily, Severus, Sirius, Lupin, and Pettigrew back in their past at Hogwarts. They only mention the name "Padfoot" when Harry warns Snape that Sirius is in trouble near the end of Order of the Pheonix, and they just suddenly start dropping the name "Wormtail". No mention of where the map came from, how well they knew each other, nothing. And dropping those names in are part of what made Pheonix so hard to follow.

- Where the map came from is inconsequential in the movie. Fred and George give it to Harry saying that "every few years this map gets given to a new student" - along with rules on not spilling the beans. Is it an interesting sidenote that Harry's dad, Sirius and others helped create it? Sure. Is it necessary for the plot? Not really.

The hogwarts back story for the Order is exactly the type of thing you should cut out to keep the movie under 4 hours. Plus, you get the Snape-Harry oclemency moment where Harry sees his dad and Sirius picking on Snape. That was enough, IMO.

Kreacher is such a small sidelight, and barely one mention of his testy relationship with Sirius. This is probably a good example of things that they spend 10 pages explaining in the book because they are so important, but you get one line in the movie.

This again is something interesting, but not all that vital to the story. You get from the movie that Kreacher doesn't like "mud bloods" and that Sirius' family was a lot darker than he is. That's really all you need to understand the main story.

Percy is there if you know what to look for, but has his name even been mentioned yet in the movies?

Percy's an irrelevant character in the movies (outside of the first one). He shows up from time to time, but he's really no different than an average ministry employee. They haven't gone into any of his conflicts with his dad and (for that reason) it's a minor part of the book completely left out in the movies. Again, not a terrible decision, IMO.

Not nearly enough on the politics inside the Ministry of Magic. It's obviously a key central focus of the Pheonix, so it gets discussed some, but I got lost enough the first time through the movie that I had no idea WHERE they were fighting the final battle. The Ministry of Magic itself is such a big role in the books and a small one in the movies.

I thought they did a prett good job in the order of showing this. The first 20 minute of the movie and Harry's trial is bascially Harry, Mr. Weasley and Dumbledore frantically trying to convince the minister that Voldemort is back. You see it again when Harry deals with the paper and all the students thinking he's lying. Just watching Umbridge alone in the Order shows all you need to know on the politics of the ministry.

Related to that, no explanation of the Prophecy, really? When I watched the movie the first time I left it thinking "what were they fighting over again? why?". Makes a LOT more sense after reading the book.

The importance of it was shown in the movie, just not what would happen if it was captured. Again, they were fighting because Harry got duped and obviously the prophecy was important because they went through such an elaborate plan to have Harry meet them in the Ministry (to protect Sirius). I think most people knew it wasn't a good idea for Lucius to get the prophecy while watching the movie. That's all that was needed.

Not nearly enough attention on the Deatheaters in the Goblet of Fire. What the Dark Mark was, etc. That's another reason Pheonix was confusing.

Again, fairly trivial. You knew from the world cup to the final battle in the cemetery that the sign went up as a "batcall" of sorts for the deatheaters. I'm not sure what else was needed. They also showed the dark mark multiple times.

Where did Dobby go? I get not having the liberation society, or the female house-elf, but Dobby is such a big deal through the books I can't believe he's gone.

Like with Fleur in the Goblet, he floats out after his only key role in the story (second book). The effort to keep continuing his story isn't worth the time needed to invest in him. He's not that vital in books 4, 5 and 6.

They turned Cho into the bad-girl in Pheonix? I know Snape clears her near the end, but I remember thinking through on the first viewing "why on earth would they write their names on a list?", and only the book explains that, and why they were betrayed.

I thought that went fine in the movie. They wrote the names as a moment of solidarity against Umbredge and Cho spilled the beans because of the truth serum. I think that flowed just as well as the actual reasons in the book.

I just don't see a lot here. I think people who read the book find things they like and then get upset when it's one of the things cut in the movies. But, none of this stuff is critical to the central story and when you have a 2.5 hour limit, decisions have to be made. Books are always better than movies at telling a story because of the backstory and depth they can provide. Movies visually show a limited piece of the story in a way that's often different from the book.

I would have liked to see a few more things in the movies, but I'm not sure the movie-watching public would want to sit through 6 3.5 hour movies to make us few book readers happier.