More Politically Correct Lunacy

[Ben E Lou]

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1640&u_sid=981030

A small group of Westside High School students plastered the school Monday with posters advocating that a white student from South Africa receive the "Distinguished African American Student Award" next year.

The students' actions on Martin Luther King Jr. Day upset several students and have led administrators to discipline four students.

The posters, placed on about 150 doors and lockers, included a picture of the junior student smiling and giving a thumbs up. The posters encouraged votes for him.

The posters were removed by administrators because they were "inappropriate and insensitive," Westside spokeswoman Peggy Rupprecht said Tuesday.

Rupprecht said the award always has been given to black students.

Westside Assistant Principal Pat Hutchings said the award has been given for eight years on Martin Luther King Jr. Day to a senior selected by teachers.

Rupprecht said disciplinary action was taken against the students involved but, citing student privacy policies, she declined to specify the penalties or what about the students' action led to them.

Karen Richards said her son, Trevor, who was pictured on the posters, was suspended for two days for hanging the posters. Two of his friends also were disciplined for hanging the posters. A fourth student, she said, was punished for circulating a petition Tuesday morning in support of the boys. The petition criticized the practice of recognizing only black student achievement with the award.

One of the school's students, Tylena Martin, said she was hurt by the posters and the backlash she said it caused.

Martin, a junior, said she is the only black student in her homeroom class, and the poster was on the door to her classroom when she arrived Monday morning.

Westside has fewer than 70 blacks out of 1,843 students this year.

Hutchings said she heard from several students about the posters Monday.

"Many students were offended," she said.

Karen Richards said her son and his friends were not trying to hurt anyone.

"My son is not a racist," she said. "He has black friends, friends from Bangladesh and Egypt. Color has never been an issue in our home."

"It was a very innocent thing," she said.

Richards said her family moved to Omaha from Johannesburg six years ago. Trevor, she said, "is as African as anyone."

[cuervo72]

Maybe they should change the name of the award then?

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

This sounds like a "When you call the tune, you have to pay the piper" kind of situation to me. If you take an inaccurate, nebulous term, and try to make it the "proper" P.C. terminology, it is eventually going to backfire and make you look stupid. To say that Trevor isn't qualified for an award recognizing African-Americans is completely ridiculous.

I honestly hope that more white South Africans will do this kind of thing, and insist on being called African-Americans. I HATE that term. My mama was born in Georgia. My grandmama was born in Georgia. My great-grandmother was born in Georgia. My GREAT-GREAT grandmother was born in Georgia.

Face the facts: I have WAY more in common with white Georgians who have been here for multiple generations than I do with black folks in Africa. As a whole, black Southerners have WAY more in common with white Southerners than Africans. (I'd imagine this is true in other parts of the country as well...)

I wish more dark-skinned Americans would realize this.

[Noop]

I know this is a touchy subject but I am laughing at the thought of that. I mean he is from South Africa and is a citizen of the United States of America hence he is a African American....wild. I can stop laughing *Sorry if I offended anyone with my humor*



noop

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Maybe they should change the name of the award then?

But they can't do that. It wouldn't be P.C., now would it?

[pskov]

What did he do to deserve the award anyway?

[Bonegavel]

I'm sure Dr. King would have had no problem with it going to a white student. Wasn't that what he stood for?

[WussGawd]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, Skydog. I think that such an action is an attempt on the part of a certain part of the conservative white majority of this school to provoke an angry response.

On the other hand, my first thought is why have such an award in the first place. It seems to me that in a school that's more whitebread than most in America that it's pretty silly to try to elevate one of what amounts to about 4% of the student population to win the award. Particularly since I can assure you there isn't an equivalent Distinguished WASP student award. LOL.

[wig]

Gary Anderson is an African American. (ex Vikings Kicker)

I heard he gets pulled over when he drives through white neighborhoods all the time.

Cop: "Excuse me son, aren't you in the wrong neighborhood?"
Gary Anderson: "No, I live here"
Cop: "Sure, son. Mind if I take a look in your trunk?"
Gary Anderson: "I guess, but I really do live here."
Cop: "....... What do we have here? Visited a sporting goods store lately, I see. Where did you get 20 brand new footballs with a little 'K' on them?"
Gary Anderson: "I am the kicker for the Vikings"
Cop: "Oh, a wise guy, huh? Step out of the car."

Just another case of The Man keeping the African Americans down.



wig

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by WussGawd

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, Skydog. I think that such an action is an attempt on the part of a certain part of the conservative white majority of this school to provoke an angry response.

I don't disagree that it was attempt to provoke a response. I'm not sure "angry" is the intended response. My guess is that is intended to provoke the response, "Oh yeah, that IS a stupid term..."

[HornedFrog Purple]

They should get rid of the "award" period. It like affirmative action and others in its ilk encourage separation. That never was the message of Martin Luther King.

Dr. King would not want an award like this in his name.

[scooper]

So, can we call you a Georgian-American?

[Bonegavel]

Wig is back in town?

[Fritz]

Tubby has it dead right.

----------

I wish they would put a box on forms saying "Ethincly Ambiguous due to Adoption American." I would be in the high hay then boy.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by scooper

So, can we call you a Georgian-American?

I guess my point is that the whole hyphenated American thing is nonsense. This will probably be the only time I'll quote Jesse Jackson to defend my point , but he said it right in his '88 speech, speaking about Dukakis:

Providence has enabled our paths to intersect. His foreparents came to America on immigrant ships; my foreparents came to America on slave ships. But whatever the original ships, we're in the same boat tonight. (Applause) Our ships could pass in the night-- if we have a false sense of independence-- or they could collide and crash.

Whatever the history, we ARE in the same boat now.

[Maple Leafs]

So of all the issues in the world, these students decide that this is the one that needs to have attention focused on it?

And in order to do so, they feel it's appropriate to ruin an award meant for black students, at an overwhelmingly white school, on Martin Luther King day?

I'm sorry, but I'm glad they were suspended. They should have been suspended longer.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So of all the issues in the world, these students decide that this is the one that needs to have attention focused on it?

And in order to do so, they feel it's appropriate to ruin an award meant for black students, at an overwhelmingly white school, on Martin Luther King day?

I'm sorry, but I'm glad they were suspended. They should have been suspended longer.

Exactly what is wrong with someone who moved to America from Africa being touted for an award honoring African-Americans. It sounds like he's the very definition of the term.

When you call the tune, you have to pay the Piper.--Rowdy Roddy Piper

The school officials called the tune by giving a vague and ambiguous name to the award.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

On of the more ridiculous quotes I've read in a while was from a public figure (I can't remember which one) trying to refer to the plight of black Africans vs. white Africans. She referred to "African-American Africans."

Huh???????????

[HornedFrog Purple]

I wish they would put a box on forms saying "Ethincly Ambiguous due to Adoption American." I would be in the high hay then boy.

American Mutt.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

The school officials called the tune by giving a vague and ambiguous name to the award.

Given that the award was being present on MLK day, do you honestly feel that any reasonable person could have any confusion about the school's intention?

Sorry, this just seems like one of those cases of playing "gotcha!" with semantics. You seem to think these kids are fighting some war against the PC police. I think it's the opposite. Feigning confusion and offense over terms that every rationale person can understand is exactly the sort of PC routine we're all sick of.

What's next? The shcool renames it the Black Student award and the white kids nominate someone named Jimmy Black?

[Huckleberry]

Maple Leafs -

Yes, I bet these students did this based on the assumption that it would garner regional and national attention. Kids these days are bright, you know.

[Fritz]

I once worked at a blockbuster that had an employee of the month, and a black employee of the month. We didn't have any black people working there.

[Fritz]

dola

Okay, that is not true. the point is really that it is a shame none of the kids apperntly qualify for a regular old "Distinguished Student Award" and have to settle for one based on race.

[QuikSand]

Aside from the specifics of this incident... I'd offer at least a nominal defense of the use of some connotative euphemisms to describe classes of people, even if they don't necessarily connect perfectly to their plain meaning.

We hear this all the time when a term like "minority" group is used with its contextual meaning. From time to time, someone goes out of his way to point out that "minority" also has a mathematical meaning (less than 50%) and raises a stink about it. I don't think, however, that this fact alone invalidates what most people can clearly understand is the intended meaning of a phrase like "minority group."

Much the same for the term "African-American." It's pretty obvious why the term is used-- some people felt that describing a class of people purely in terms of their skin color may be untoward. (I'll take a pass on whether this is unimpeachable logic) Looking for another way to descrbe such classes, they somehow reached the conclusion that since most black-skinned Americans hail from Sub-Saharan African ancestry, that the term "African-American" was a fair proxy. An inprefect one, most would admit, but not a wholly unreasoned one.

Yes, that makes for some weirdness when you speak of Algerian-Americans, or Egyptian-Americans, or white-skinned South African emigrees. Absolutely true, those people techncally fit the denotative (dictionary) definition of the term. They also, pretty obviously, don't fit the contextual use of the term.

The use of a term like "minority" or "African-American" in these contexts is obviously a benevolent attempt to be less offensive to the named group. Unfortunately, the fact that the words people chose to use in both cases are not precisely connected to their dictionary meanings gives rise to the kind of surface absurdity that we see in this story, and elsewhere in this thread.

I guess it would theoretically be better if there were a term that could be used in this instance that had no common meaning other than that use... regrettably most such terms that I can think of are not really appropriate for public discourse. But I don't think it's necessarily apropriate to tear apart the people who are seeking to be respectful because the consensus word choice has another potential interpretation when stripped of its context.


I don't claim to have the answer on PC-terminology. I understand the notion of attempting to refer to groups of people (when it's necessary to do so) by terms that are not needlessly offensive. To me, it's conceptually like calling someone by his full name rather than a nickname that he doesn't like. I don't really rage about it (just like I don't rage about people who in real use a nickname for me that I never use), but I'll try and be courteous if it's obvious how to do so.

I agree that there are limits of reasonableness to this -- I recently choked a bit upon hearing that a disability advocacy organization sought to change all legal references in state law to the "people first" nomenclature -- e.g. referencing "people with diabetes" rather than "diabetics" and the like. But, after gving it some thought, I can see a point there... I'm not sure it's worked its way into my own speech yet, but it doesn't seem a wholly unreasonable perspective.

I suppose I just get frustrated, to some degree, that the term "politically correct" has essentially become an insult in modern parlance -- when the underlying principle (treating people with respect) doesn't seem so bad to me.

[Subby]

I think it would be interesting to interview each one of the black kids at that school and ask them how seeing those posters made them feel...

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Given that the award was being present on MLK day, do you honestly feel that any reasonable person could have any confusion about the school's intention?

Sorry, this just seems like one of those cases of playing "gotcha!" with semantics. You seem to think these kids are fighting some war against the PC police. I think it's the opposite. Feigning confusion and offense over terms that every rationale person can understand is exactly the sort of PC routine we're all sick of.

What's next? The shcool renames it the Black Student award and the white kids nominate someone named Jimmy Black?

That was more or less what I wanted to say, just a lot more concisely done.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

this just seems like one of those cases of playing "gotcha!" with semantics.

But it points out the ridiculous emphasis that is placed on "proper" language by political correctness. The whole idea that noone should ever be offended has led to (as SkyDog so eloquently points out) inaccurate and ambiguous terms being applied to ethnic groups, sometimes against their will. I don't think these students were protesting PC so much as recognizing the ridiculousness of the term and using it to protest an award that they were prevented from competing for due to their skin color. They have a beef with this award, and were exercising their first amendment rights (in a rather clever way, IMO) to protest it.

I do think that we should now refer to Ben as a "darker pigmented Georgian."

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I do think that we should now refer to Ben as a "darker pigmented Georgian."

HDPGIC?

[wig]

When did we amend the Constitution to afford people "The right not to be offended"?

[wig]

You never hear Gary Anderson complaining about racism.



wig

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Subby

I think it would be interesting to interview each one of the black kids at that school and ask them how seeing those posters made them feel...

This is a hell of a test to apply to something.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I don't disagree that it was attempt to provoke a response. I'm not sure "angry" is the intended response. My guess is that is intended to provoke the response, "Oh yeah, that IS a stupid term..."

Or how about provoking the thought that maybe we have a lot more in common than labels would suggest?

Wasn't there a story recently about a principal getting in trouble for indicating that two robbery suspects were black? How ridiculous is that? If he had no idea they were black yet described them that way, then that's one thing. But describing the individuals based on known characteristics - that's "racist" and/or "insensitive"? Huh?

While I understand the notion that referring to someone by their skin color has an historically negative tone, I thinnk we've come far enough to understand that in the vast majority of instances in which someone is referred to as "black", it is done so in a descriptive way, with no connotations attached. If, in a conversation about racial diversity in the workplace, I mention that one of my co-workers is black, I'm not saying anything different than if I used the term African-American. I think most people can fairly determine when someone is using the term "black" in a negative way, but then again, the term African-American can also be given the same connotation. So, it adds nothing, and it's incorrect, to boot.

My grandparents came over from Greece. As SD suggests, many black people can't claim even that kind of indirect line to Africa. And I can guarantee that if I was raised to consider myself a Greek-American above all else, I'd have less of an attachment and feel less a part of this country than I would otherwise. And that's the real issue, in my mind, with the use of a term like African-American - it places the emphasis on place of origin, rather than where that person is now and what they are a part of now. We're all Americans, except most black people consider themselves African-Americans first. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage; it's another to place your heritage above the here-and-now. And when you refer to yourself race-first, that is the kind of thing that will continue to divide races who are otherwise working toward the same goals.

[rwprice]

I think SkyDog did a good job of making his point on this. My objection to hyphenated names is that I feel it only serves to divide, not unite. Our country was once called a "melting pot" because people came here to become Americans, no matter what their country of origin. I understand that these terms are meant to be descriptive, but if we really want a dialog that is free of racial undertones, why do we need to label ourselves this way? I see myself as an American--period. I know that I have a heritage that came from somewhere else, but frankly I don't think that defines me at all.

I realize that a lot of people actually care about skin color and stuff like that, but I prefer to judge a person on their individual merit, and not what group they belong to. We used to be about rugged individualism, now it seems like we're more about group membership.

As to why these students did this, I too think it was most likely to call attention to what they saw as a ridiculous term, and not to create anger and resentment. Why have an award in which the primary qualification is skin color? Just a thought...

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by wig

When did we amend the Constitution to afford people "The right not to be offended"?

I don't think that I, nor anyone else in this thread, is claiming that this is a matter of anyone's rights. In my judgment, making reasonable efforts not to offend people needlessly is just a matter of common decency.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Samdari

The whole idea that noone should ever be offended...

While I am sure that there are some people out there who might embrace this as their philosophy... I think there are many more perfectly sensible people (not raging PC zealots) who would just prefer to make reaosnable attempts to minimize offending people, when it's easy to do so. There honestly is a reasonable middle ground here... as hard as that may seem.

[wig]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't think that I, nor anyone else in this thread, is claiming that this is a matter of anyone's rights. In my judgment, making reasonable efforts not to offend people needlessly is just a matter of common decency.

Nobody here is making that point, but it's the central point of all this PC crap.

[HornedFrog Purple]

And that's the real issue, in my mind, with the use of a term like African-American - it places the emphasis on place of origin, rather than where that person is now and what they are a part of now. We're all Americans, except most black people consider themselves African-Americans first. It's one thing to be proud of your heritage; it's another to place your heritage above the here-and-now. And when you refer to yourself race-first, that is the kind of thing that will continue to divide races who are otherwise working toward the same goals.

How is it a black persons fault when they have been catagorized this from the moment of their birth by the state?

Years ago we were just Negros.

Why can't I call myself an African-American when the state forces me to?

It's not placing myself above the here and now. It's placing myself where I am expected to be.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

How is it a black persons fault when they have been catagorized this from the moment of their birth by the state?

Years ago we were just Negros.

Why can't I call myself an African-American when the state forces me to?

It's not placing myself above the here and now. It's placing myself where I am expected to be.

That's a valid point - the government bears some responsibility in that regard. Still, I don't see why that requires you to accept it. Years ago, slavery was where you were "expected" to be, and it's a good thing that people eventually decided not to accept it.

Also, I'm not saying you can't refer to yourself that way - you can refer to yourself in any way you want. My point is that instead of embracing the philosophy that supports this kind of labeling - especially if it is promoted by the government - the black community should recognize that relations between races will only improve if we do away with labels like this.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by wig

Nobody here is making that point, but it's the central point of all this PC crap.

No, no, it isn't. Setting up strawmen about what this PC "crap" is about is nonsense. Using the extreme to prove the opposite extreme is just bad argument and many in this thread are guilty of it.

African American does not mean those with American and African connections. Just as a Jamacian American (whose ancestors were taken or moved from Africa) would be eligible for this award, a white South African student would not. Just as I would not be eligible because "we all came from Africa," someone with the last name "Black" (as Maple Leafs pointed out) would not be eligible for an alternatively named award. Race, culture, and natural origin labels are not precise and to pretend they are (and play silly semantics games) is nonsense.

You don't have to like the award, but to pretend that a white South African should be eligible is just silly.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Fritz

This is a hell of a test to apply to something.

It wasn't meant as a test or even a point. It was just a general wondering....

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Subby

It wasn't meant as a test or even a point. It was just a general wondering....

But I think you would be shocked at the number that would laugh at the joke.

[wig]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Race, culture, and natural origin labels are not precise and to pretend they are (and play silly semantics games) is nonsense.

You don't have to like the award, but to pretend that a white South African should be eligible is just silly.

I'm not saying that white kids should be allowed to win this award. It's clearly for black kids, which is fine. Just call it an award for black kids only, then.

I just find it amusing when you say calling Gary Anderson an African American is a silly semantics game, when we use "African American" because people didn't like the word "black".

This is all a silly semantics game, and many of you take it way too seriously.

wig

[Fritz]

this is a tad off topic

John,

You are lawyering here. When something suits your (the big your, not finger pointing) purpose, you talk about intent. When something does not, you look for loopholes and literal meaning.

Seems both approaches are viewed as being legitimate, and thus not silly.

[Noop]

I am one proud American. If someone wants to judge me by my color thats their lost because I think I'm a barrel of laughs in real life.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Also, I'm not saying you can't refer to yourself that way - you can refer to yourself in any way you want. My point is that instead of embracing the philosophy that supports this kind of labeling - especially if it is promoted by the government - the black community should recognize that relations between races will only improve if we do away with labels like this.

It's not just the government. Fill out an application for a job or apply for a credit card or buy a house. It is there plain as day. What does that really have to do with anything? You and I both pay our bills with something that is green!

I am not saying that blacks are absolved from any responsibility because they shouldn't be. But not all of what is called black leadership are reincarnations of Malcolm X either.

I like Colin Powell... a lot. But I don't believe he realized what exactly he was stirring. Mistrust on all sides. All things like this award do is keep stirring it.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Noop

I am one proud American. If someone wants to judge me by my color thats their lost because I think I'm a barrel of laughs in real life.

From where I sit you are blue, just like everyone except Tubby, who is obviously purple.

[Maple Leafs]

Beyond the bigger issue of naming and grouping people based on race... do people here really believe that these high school kids were trying to make a political point about these issues?

Maybe they were, and I don't claim to read minds. But my guess is that this is just another example of wise-ass high school kids trying to find a technicality to make the teachers and administration look bad. This happens at every high school -- it's almost a right of passage. "They" make the rules, "we" find ways to break them.

Every year we see stories about some wacky high school who elected the high school QB as prom queen. Are they doing it to make a statement on gender equality issues? No, they're goofing around, having a laugh. Same as these kids. It's just that these kids were dumb enough to think that making racial jokes on MLK day was appropriate.

Yes, sure, maybe they really were aiming higher than that, trying to make a political statement. I'm sure they'll claim that now. But occam's razor says they got caught playing a dumb joke and now they don't want to take their punishment.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

But not all of what is called black leadership are reincarnations of Malcolm X either.

Goodness I was thinking the same thing after I read his book( I had to stop reading ) Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. to me are just playing the racist card for money. Having a one hour protest doesnt really help problems some of the people are facing. Excuse my french but fuck them....

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Fritz

From where I sit you are blue, just like everyone except Tubby, who is obviously purple.

Consider me Garnet and Gold my friend.




noop

[wig]

I'm with you, Mable Leafs. They were probably just being dumbasses.