Venable Aftermath Question: Anyone out there personally known a murder victim?

[Ben E Lou]

In dealing with the tragedy on a personal level, as well as with kids/adults in the community, I have come to realize that the aftermath and grieving process of a murder (and even more-so a double murder) seems quite different, and even more intense, than the grieving process around other kinds of deaths. I've known people who have lived full lives and died expectedly. I've known teenagers who have died in accidents. I've known teenagers/young adults who have died while committing a crime. I've known adults who have died "out of season" from heart attacks, accidents, etc. I've known teenagers/young adults who have died due to a medical condition (both previously-known and previously-unknown.) I've known people who have committed murder. However, before last week, I've never known anyone who was murdered--and now I know two.

Has anyone else out there known anyone personally who was murdered and therefore experienced the shock/grieving process? Has anyone known a friend who had someone close to them murdered, and therefore witnessed someone else deal with something like this? Has anyone been in a community like this where a murder or double-murder has had a community-wide impact? I realize that this is a very heavy topic, and that some might not want to share their experiences publicly. If you want to respond via PM, that is fine as well. I am wondering what to expect down the road personally, with kids, and in my community as a whole.

Thanks in advance.

--Ben

[scooper]

Yes. This was not a person that I was close to but he was a teammate and I worked out with him once in awhile. He was the captain of our football team my junior year. This was during college. He was at a bar and stepped in to break up a fight between a girl and her boyfriend. Said boyfriend and his friends followed Dan outside and beat him to death.

It was pretty shocking to find out when it happened. His funeral was held in the high school gym and was standing room only, with all former Moeller football players sitting in a reserved section that took up half the gym. Hundreds of former players, from years before showed up. He was Irish Catholic and his name was Daniel. The biggest tear jerker was after communion when a solo violin played Danny Boy. I've never seen so many grown tough guys cry.

Oddly enough, Dan's murder was part of a strange string of deaths. I mentioned that he was a captain from the class before me. Within a couple years of this a captain from the year behind me passed in a car accident and a captain from my class committed suicide.

As for the community impact, it's hard for me to say. I'm not from the same community as he was since we went to a Catholic school that draws from different parts of Cincinnati. I will say the community of Moeller High School was affected pretty strongly, especially since he still had a younger brother there and another one on the way. As a student body at a school that prides itself on its Christian background, Moeller tends to be pretty tight anyway.

[QuikSand]

I had a friend in college who was killed in the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland. As some might recall, there were a number (about 30) Syracuse University students coming home from semesters abroad on that flight - I lost a student government colleague, and a few other acquaintances.

Needless to say, that event ("murder" might not be the ideal term, nor is this a good parallel to something that happened right at home) had a devastating effect on the campus community. It was very, very difficult to get through. The effect was mitigated a bit by the fact that many students were home for year-end holidays when it happened, but the start of the January term was very, very chilling.

One of the toughest things to deal with is after the initial shock, it becomes very difficult to know how to deal with the remembrance. It's natural to want to commemorate or honor the dead, but doing so in a permanent way also tends to re-open the wounds a bit for those deeply affected. SU set up a scholarship fund in the name of each student victim, and it was a pretty solemn day every time there was an announcement about it - just because so many people knew one or more of them personally.

I wish you and the Tucker community the best in dealing with this extremely difficult situation.

[cthomer5000]

While might not think of this as a "murder," I believe 2 kids have in fact been charged with either murder or manslaughter.

Anyway, one of the 3 students to die in the highly publicized Seton Hall dorm fires almost 4 years ago was my childhood best friend and neighbor. I hadn't maintained great contact with him personally, but both families always kept in touch. I've never been more depressed when attending a wake, seeing tons of high school seniors/college freshman so visibly shaken by losing a pretty popular kid.

Also while in college (at Rutgers) one of my co-workers at the dining hall and member of my concert committee (still, i'd hesitate to call him a friend, more like acquantaince/co-worker) died while changing a flat tire on a highway. Another driver fell asleep at the wheel, veered off the road, hitting and killing him.

Although I didn't know him well, the second incident I described hit much closer to home. I worked with him regularly in the morning shift at the school dining hall (in fact, we were scheduled to work together the very morning after his death). Also, my concert committee was putting on a very large concert that day. As me and the rest of the concert committee gathered around 10am to start setting up the show, most of us heard for the first time that someone we'd all known and "worked" with for 2 years had died. A few of his closest friends were there, and needless to say, it was a very rough day for anyone who knew him. The whole organization was pretty focused on this for about 2 weeks. Honestly, his death also seemed to pretty much break up the close-knit group of friends he had, as I think everytime they would get-together... he would inevitably be the topic of conversation. 2 of my roomates at the time had been good friends with him (1 actually having had dated him for a while the previous year).

I know neither of these situations is quite comparable, and I'm really not sure what i can offer here. I can't even imagine the shock that the tucker school community has felt.

[ScottVib]

My Freshmen year in High School a girl from my homeroom, who happened to have the locker next to me was tied up, raped, and murdered by her ex-boyfriend while she was babysitting. That said I wasn't particularly close to her and she was new to the school district that year (the murder occurred during the fall). The murder was discovered during the school day and I still remember the PA system asking for a subset of students to go down to the principal's office just before the last period of the day. The way they broke the news was to tell her friends, and some others from our freshmen class and have it get out to the school that way.

I remember being upset and I didn't even know her particularly well (not being in her sub-circle of friends), I can barely imagine how her group of friends felt. I remember talking with some of her friends (they would bring it up and I certainly wasn't going to deny them the chance to get things off their chest, I figured they must want to talk about it, so I just sat and listened as best I could) and they just seemed detached, I guess it was easier to deal with it that way. I assume it helped to compartamentalize the hurt. A number of them went to the trial and the yearbook for that year was dedicated to her.

It was the lead story on the newscasts that evening, but fortunately the story broke late enough in the day that they were able to keep the news trucks away. Additionally because she lived in a different school district then mine (she used a relative's address to be able to attend my school) our students were able to for the most part get away without dealing with the media and the story didn't hang around that long in the Hartford news.

[fjvieane]

Yes, My brother was murdered in the house we grew up in, in 2000. It's not something I like to talk about or re-hash.

I think the worse thing of it all is that he has a twin. So yeah I had 2 little brothers that were twins. I always wonder what my brother feels when he looks in the mirror.

The best thing I can say is that I felt immediate anger at the person who shot my brother several times and I think the anger I felt is that I wouldn't be able to see justice served as he killed himself as well. Lots and lots of anger, depression, and now as you see I really don't like to talk about it.

If you would like more info Skydog just PM me....

[GrantDawg]

My uncle was killed in a Dunkin Doughnuts. He was a Battalion Chief for the Dekalb county fire department. The murderer came in and shot his ex-fiance, and turned and shot my uncle (most likely because he thought he was a police officer). His wife and four kids have never really recovered from it (this was 20 years ago). I don't know if I can tell you much that can help. Nothing was handled very well at the time.

[Eaglesfan27]

I personally have never had the horror of experiencing this, but in my work I've dealt with about a dozen children who lost one or both parent's to murder. I've attended several workshops, seminars, and read quite a few books on the subject. Traumatic death is an expanding field of research in the psychiatric/psychological community. Although, I have no personal experience with the process to aid you, I can definitely recommend several good books if you so desire.

[Blade6119]

One of my best friends was murdered a few months back...

[Blade6119]

dola, and the whole community really stepped up and helped out

[McSweeny]

I know this isn't murder exactly, but it's along the same lines.

A few years back my uncle on my mother's side killed himself. I wasn't overly close to him but he was still family and i saw him several times a year and enjoyed his company. It was devistating for my family. I remember when my mom told me, she could barely get the words out. It was a really tough time for the whole family. It really helped to have everyone close and have everyone there. As i recall we kind of took care of each other and the whole family came together to try our best to deal with it

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by fjvieane

Yes, My brother was murdered in the house we grew up in, in 2000. It's not something I like to talk about or re-hash.

I think the worse thing of it all is that he has a twin. So yeah I had 2 little brothers that were twins. I always wonder what my brother feels when he looks in the mirror.

The best thing I can say is that I felt immediate anger at the person who shot my brother several times and I think the anger I felt is that I wouldn't be able to see justice served as he killed himself as well. Lots and lots of anger, depression, and now as you see I really don't like to talk about it.

If you would like more info Skydog just PM me....

fjvieane - I'm sorry for your loss, even if it was some time ago. Thank you for sharing. This goes to all those who have shared losses in this thread as well.

The best thing I can say is that I felt immediate anger at the person who shot my brother several times and I think the anger I felt is that I wouldn't be able to see justice served as he killed himself as well. Lots and lots of anger, depression, and now as you see I really don't like to talk about it."

This comment is one that strikes me. I know I've felt the same way on several occasions even though I wasn't even remotely associated with the tragic events. For example, after Columbine, I was SOOOO pissed because the kids who did it wouldn't face the backlash or have to live with the consequences of their actions. There was only slight gratification in them dying so soon afterwards. I would have preferred their deaths be delayed by about 5 or 10 years.

With the attacks on the Twin Towers I had a similar reaction. I'd have prefered for the hijackers to feel the wrath of a nation, rather than instant death.

Same feeling toward the Venable's murderer. I'd rather him rot in jail for a few years, THEN rot in hell.

++++++++++++

Before SD started this thread, I had thought about why this tragic event seemed to hit deeper than other deaths. My conclusion is that it is because it was so senseless, so pointless, and so utterly unnecessary that I feel great anger and frustration at why it happened at all. If someone gets murdered because a drug deal goes bad, I don't feel much remorse. You play around with shit, you're gonna get some on you. Same thing for anyone who ends up wrapped around a telephone pole after running from the cops. You shouldn't have been running, or had cause to run, in the first place.

But when there is NO reason, and the victims had absolutely no reason to die, the emotion is infinitely more intense.

Don't know if this helps you SD, but wanted to share my observations, and to get that off my chest.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've personally known at least two murder victims. Both were police officers killed in the line of duty, so as shocking and disturbing and upsetting as those cases were, I believe there's also some part of you that knows it could happen at any time.

FWIW, my relationship with both was more professional than personal. The one observation I might offer is that, even with relationships of that nature or when the victims are more acquaintances than close friends, the anger & frustration & grief that murders create seems to linger for a very long time.

[Senator]

The summer of my sophomore year, a friend of mine (guy) killed another friend of mine (girl). He was house sitting (feeding pets, watering lawn) the house of his girlfriend and her parents while they were on vacation. A mutual friend went along to help. Somewhere along the way things went bad. The real story will never be known, but his defense was he snapped when she threatened to tell his girlfriend they were together sexually.

This was a guy I played football with. He had gone on vacation with my family. We carpooled to school together. And he was capable of this. My little sister had been around him. I really had horrific feelings about putting my family around someone who could crack like that.

She was a girl I had been friends with since 3rd grade. She didn't deserve to die in such a manner.

It was a small town, so it got national news. I remember the Enquirer having on their cover page - Football King kills Beauty Queen.

He was a great football player, but never the hero of the team. She was on the drill team, and was not our beauty queen.

I was asked to be a character witness, but I refused. I was called to testify on the mental state of him as I had dropped him off at his house that afternoon. The whole thing still gives me the creeps and it has been 17 years ago.

So, I was in the unfortunate position of knowing not only the murder victim, but also the murderer.