I Know What You Earned Last Summer (POL)

[CamEdwards]

Saw this story from Norway and thought it might make for some interesting discussion. Basically the government has made public the tax records of almost every Norwegian... on purpose.

It's a long article, so I'm only posting about half of it here.

Lutefisk and loot: Tax records open in Norway - Yahoo! News

It's the moment nosy Norwegian neighbors have been waiting for — the release of official records showing the annual income and overall wealth of nearly every taxpayer in the Scandinavian country.

In a move that would be unthinkable elsewhere, tax authorities in Norway have issued the "skatteliste," or "tax list," for 2008 to the media under a law designed to uphold the country's tradition of transparency.

It's Norwegians' way of keeping up with the Johansens — from fishermen on the western fjords and Sami reindeer herders in the north to members of the committee that awarded President Barack Obama the Nobel Peace Prize.

To non-Scandinavians, it would seem to be a gross violation of privacy.

The tax list stirs up a media frenzy, with splashy headlines revealing oil-rich Norway's wealthiest man, woman and celebrity couple.

The data shows that former cross-country skiing great Bjoern Daehlie, who has eight Olympic gold medals, also has plenty of cash — 29.3 million kroner ($5.4 million).

Actress and director Liv Ullmann, for instance, earned $17,300 in Norway, and has a wealth of $2.5 million. Income earned or kept abroad, or otherwise in some sort of tax shelter, is not included.

Pioneering women's long-distance runner Grete Waitz, a nine-time New York City Marathon champion, earned $13,500 in Norway, and has a wealth of $90,000.

Many media outlets use the tax records to produce their own searchable online databases. In the database of national broadcaster NRK, you can type a subject's name, hit search and within moments get information on what that person made last year, what was paid in taxes and total wealth. It also compares those figures with Norway's national averages for men and women, and that person's city of residence.

Defenders of the system say it enhances transparency, deemed essential for an open democracy.

"Isn't this how a social democracy ought to work, with openness, transparency and social equality as ideals?" columnist Jan Omdahl wrote in the tabloid Dagbladet. He acknowledged, however, that many treat the list like "tax porno" — furtively checking the income of neighbors or co-workers.

Critics say the list is actually a threat to society.

"What each Norwegian earns and what you have in wealth is a private matter between the taxpayer and the government," said Jon Stordrange, director of the Norwegian Taxpayer's Association.

Besides providing criminals with a useful tool to find prime targets, he said the list generates playground taunts of my-dad-is-richer-than-your-dad.

"The children of people with low wages are being teased about it in the schools," Stordrange said Thursday. "People with low salaries are being met with comments at the grocery store, 'How can you live on these low wages?'"

The information had been available to media until 2004, when a more conservative government banned the publication of tax records. Three years later, a new, more liberal government reversed the legislation and also made it possible for media to obtain tax information digitally and disseminate it online.

[SportsDino]

Opposed to this for people, massively for this to an extreme level for all public entities (including all public traded corporations, anything invested in a government supported tax-free fund like 401k, all non-profits, etc).

Transparency is important in interactions that involve multiple people, but a single person's taxes are their business, and airing it all over the place only serves abusive purposes in my opinion.

[Logan]

Anyone who knows my last name can find out what I was making as of about mid 2007. Made for a fun day in the office when the fed database got published.

[MikeVic]

Wouldn't this cause a ton of problems with people complaining about salaries then? If you're 100% sure you know what your coworkers are all making, I think quite a few people would be thinking "why the hell does he/she get paid so much more than me?"

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Logan

Anyone who knows my last name can find out what I was making as of about mid 2007. Made for a fun day in the office when the fed database got published.

Same here since teaching salary rates and years of experience are easy to look up.

I have no problem with it. Never heard of Norway having some great crisis recently, so I doubt it does much more than raise a fuss among some people. I couldn't care less if people know what I make vs. others in my school. I always think it's funny when the checks get passed out. They tell me, don't leave that in your box...someone might look. If I have 12 yrs experience, then they know what I make anyway.

[dawgfan]

I feel strongly about our right to privacy. If someone chooses to disclose what they earn, good for them. If I don't want anyone to know what I make and what I'm worth, I should have the right to keep that info private (excepting of course if I run for public office).

[Abe Sargent]

The problem is that in America a large chunk of people's salaries are already public info, because they work for the government at various levels. Anybody in this forum can do the research and discover that I make 36k annually plus room, board, cell phone and utilities. So it's not like I can make it private anyway. Govenrment employs a large chunck of the workers.

[SportsDino]

My point is that this information has no real value other than gossip and irritating others. It will either be used by sham businesses to build better robo-dialers for ripping off wealthy grannies, or the neighborhood nosy bitch who wants to prattle on about other people's wealth (or lack thereof), so on and so forth.

When it comes to privacy and rights, I'd rather we err on the side of 'do no harm' instead of 'well we do a crappy job about keeping that data private as it is, might as well throw it all out to the wolves'. The apathy for the loss of personal rights is staggering, as the ability for public entities to do more and more secretive bullshit is increasing... we are going the wrong frickin way!

[Galaxy]

How long until this comes to the U.S.? After all, we got a government that will tell you how much you'll make and is pushing the class warfare issue.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

How long until this comes to the U.S After all, we got a government that will tell you how much you'll make and really pushing class warfare.

Quoted for awesome sentence construction!

[flere-imsaho]

I oppose this simply for two reasons:

1. The government already has enough to do and has trouble getting that done. How about we get the government to consistently provide core services well before having it do this extra stuff?

2. Telemarketers already know too much as it is.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Subby

Quoted for awesome sentence construction!

Edited just for you my Royal Highness.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I oppose this simply for two reasons:

I oppose this for one reason the "Get yer nose outta my business" platform.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Wouldn't this cause a ton of problems with people complaining about salaries then? If you're 100% sure you know what your coworkers are all making, I think quite a few people would be thinking "why the hell does he/she get paid so much more than me?"

Yes, it is very much in a company's best interests to keep salaries quiet. Lots of people don't really understand what they are 'worth', and allow themselves to get screwed over on salary just assuming that they are being paid commensurate to skill by their employers. I think business would fight this sort of change very hard.