Looking for realistic wargame

RoastDuck · 04-07-2003, 01:51 AM

I am fed up with the likes of Command & Conquer click-fest crap. Can anyone suggest a realistic combat simulation? Any era - the only thing I don't want is the impossible to manage real-time simulations.

Any suggestions?

ACStrider · 04-07-2003, 05:36 AM

I know this thread has come up before, so if anyone can direct Mr. RoastDuck to these threads, please do so. My recommendation would be the Panzer General series (Panzer General I and II, but not PG 3d). It's easy to learn, not too time consuming. It has pretty good AI for a strategy game. Pretty close to history as well. I eventually had to make my own little house rules, but it actually made the game more interesting. As it is, it has good replayability. A solid game.

Honolulu_Blue · 04-07-2003, 05:39 AM

Combat Mission also ranks up there.

I was also a fan of "Close Combat V". Solid game.

Both of those aren't clickfests.

Fritz · 04-07-2003, 06:03 AM

roastduck

www.hpssims.com (everthing there is great)
www.battlefront.com (most people rave about combat mission, but I prefer Tac Ops)
www.matrixgames.com (check out Uncommon Valor)

Free on the web is "the Ardennes Offensive" from SSG. Too lazy to look up the link.

ColtCrazy · 04-07-2003, 10:03 AM

Hearts of Iron is very good, but a bit daunting at first.

Also, in May Blitzkreig comes out. Supposedly 2 years of research went into this game. You'll be able to build trenches, anti-tank obsticles, etc. It looks like it will be very good.

Honolulu_Blue · 04-07-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ColtCrazy

Also, in May Blitzkreig comes out. Supposedly 2 years of research went into this game. You'll be able to build trenches, anti-tank obsticles, etc. It looks like it will be very good.

Anymore details on this one? A link perhaps? Sounds interesting.

JPhillips · 04-07-2003, 10:12 AM

Check out wargamer.com.

My choices would be the Panzer General series for beginners. If you have some hex based wargame experience try The Operational Art of War. Its very very good. Close Combat is good, but squad based. It really depends on what you are looking for.

There are a number of free games at Underdogs.

ColtCrazy · 04-07-2003, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
Anymore details on this one? A link perhaps? Sounds interesting.

I picked up a copy of pczone when I was in England and they had a demo with the mag. I haven't looked at the demo much yet, but the article was good (CM is taking what little free time I have at the moment) but there is a short version of the preview on their website: www.pczone.co.uk (thought the screen shots don't look as impressive as they did in the game)

The game also has a website at www.blitzkrieg.de It has an English link as well.

Says you can "build bridges, dig trenches, lay mines, and call for air support"

Looks great.

Honolulu_Blue · 04-07-2003, 10:35 AM

It does look pretty good. Will certainly have to keep an eye on that one. Thanks for the head's up.

Anrhydeddu · 04-07-2003, 10:40 AM

Combat Mission, without a doubt. It is a true grognard turn-based wargame but with the revolutionary twist that you are down there on the ground in full 3D moving your units around.

Btw, I really wish more gamers would get tired of click-fests so we can have less games of the type of AoE, EE, RoN, C&C, Cossacks, WarCraft/StarCraft, etc.

WSUCougar · 04-07-2003, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RoastDuck
Can anyone suggest a realistic combat simulation?

Depending upon what you're looking for (and I'm keying on your words above), I'd be wary of games like Sudden Strike, Blitzkrieg, and Close Combat. Not to say they aren't good games - just that they tend more toward "game" than "simulation" and have a RTS element to them.

The Panzer General series (all of which I have) are enjoyable games that have a great "feel" for WWII, but aren't very "realistic" in terms of simulation.

Operational Art of War tends more toward realism but handles some things too abstractly for my taste. There's a disconnect in there somewhere. Just my opinion, of course, YMMV.

I'll second the links that Fritz listed as great sources for computer wargames.

Good luck.

ColtCrazy · 04-07-2003, 10:48 AM

I didn't mention it, but for grand strategy...which I actually prefer, the Panzer General series is great (original still the best)

I agree about OAOW. It's a good game, but there's no connectivity to it.

Medieval: Total War is excellent as well.

Fritz · 04-07-2003, 11:36 AM

one ore link

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ - home of BCT and ATF.

--

The tag of realism is an interesting one, becuase it means different things to different people. Like sports sims, A wargame is an abstraction. The perspective, scope, and detail all contribute to what we might call "realism."

I like to think about how a game contributes to my understanding of the real world as the measure of its realism.

While I enjoyed the "General" series of games (and agree that PG 1 is the best of series), I find them not realistic at all. The games are abstracted to the point of being near meaningless in terms of understanding anything about the events and times in which they take place.

Others will have different standards.

RoastDuck · 04-07-2003, 12:28 PM

Plenty of options there, thanks one and all.

33sherman · 04-07-2003, 01:16 PM

The Talonsoft 'Europe In Flames,' (East Front, West Front) series is a bit old now but it's pretty great. It's pretty much the same as 'Operational Art Of War' but more WWII-focused. There are tons of great scenarios for it. The system takes a little getting used to but it's worth it. At first, I didn't like it as much as Panzer General but now I think it's much better. It takes a LONG time to get good at.

Fritz · 04-07-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33sherman
The Talonsoft 'Europe In Flames,' (East Front, West Front) series is a bit old now but it's pretty great.

The developer of these games, John Tiller, is the man behind most of the games at HPS.

Castlerock · 04-07-2003, 02:41 PM

Anyone know if there is a link to a demo for the original Panzer General? Everyone seems to agree that it's the best of the series. I can't seem to find one.

DataKing · 04-07-2003, 05:27 PM

If you're on a budget, I recommend Steel Panthers: World at War. It is a turn-based, (roughly) battalion-level game set in World War 2, and the best thing about it is that it's free.

The download is approximately 400mb, and you can get it at www.matrixgames.com

Joe Stallings · 04-07-2003, 06:24 PM

A good "sleeper" that I've been enjoying recently is World War II Panzer Claws. Its a WWII RTS that's a cut above Sudden Strike, etc. in terms of realism, and the Arnhem scenario (A Bridge Too Far) is excellent.

Here is the WarGamer review:

http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/panzer_claws/

Also, I picked up Talonsoft's Divided Ground for 8 bucks at EB, and its very enjoyable (so is the similar Rising Sun, which can be had for about the same price).

You can also find a few gems (for free) at Home of the Underdogs, including Hasbro's Axis and Allies game and Norm Koger's (developer of TOAW) Age of Rifles.

JMS

Joe Stallings · 04-07-2003, 06:29 PM

Also, you might check out People's General, which is by the same developers that did Panzer General. I *think* it was the last iteration of the original PG engine before the game went 3D. I actually enjoyed it more than PG, because it features modernized weaponry and hardware. And you can get free at HotU:

http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=2508

JMS

04-07-2003, 05:36 AM	#2
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	I know this thread has come up before, so if anyone can direct Mr. RoastDuck to these threads, please do so. My recommendation would be the Panzer General series (Panzer General I and II, but not PG 3d). It's easy to learn, not too time consuming. It has pretty good AI for a strategy game. Pretty close to history as well. I eventually had to make my own little house rules, but it actually made the game more interesting. As it is, it has good replayability. A solid game. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

04-07-2003, 05:39 AM	#3
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Combat Mission also ranks up there. I was also a fan of "Close Combat V". Solid game. Both of those aren't clickfests. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

04-07-2003, 06:03 AM	#4
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	roastduck www.hpssims.com (everthing there is great) www.battlefront.com (most people rave about combat mission, but I prefer Tac Ops) www.matrixgames.com (check out Uncommon Valor) Free on the web is "the Ardennes Offensive" from SSG. Too lazy to look up the link. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

04-07-2003, 10:03 AM	#5
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	Hearts of Iron is very good, but a bit daunting at first. Also, in May Blitzkreig comes out. Supposedly 2 years of research went into this game. You'll be able to build trenches, anti-tank obsticles, etc. It looks like it will be very good. __________________ The Field Generals and Statis Pro Basketball Super League

04-07-2003, 10:12 AM	#7
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Check out wargamer.com. My choices would be the Panzer General series for beginners. If you have some hex based wargame experience try The Operational Art of War. Its very very good. Close Combat is good, but squad based. It really depends on what you are looking for. There are a number of free games at Underdogs. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

04-07-2003, 10:35 AM	#9
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	It does look pretty good. Will certainly have to keep an eye on that one. Thanks for the head's up. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

04-07-2003, 10:40 AM	#10
Anrhydeddu Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Oct 2002	Combat Mission, without a doubt. It is a true grognard turn-based wargame but with the revolutionary twist that you are down there on the ground in full 3D moving your units around. Btw, I really wish more gamers would get tired of click-fests so we can have less games of the type of AoE, EE, RoN, C&C, Cossacks, WarCraft/StarCraft, etc.

04-07-2003, 10:48 AM	#12
ColtCrazy College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Midwest	I didn't mention it, but for grand strategy...which I actually prefer, the Panzer General series is great (original still the best) I agree about OAOW. It's a good game, but there's no connectivity to it. Medieval: Total War is excellent as well. __________________ The Field Generals and Statis Pro Basketball Super League

04-07-2003, 11:36 AM	#13
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	one ore link http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ - home of BCT and ATF. -- The tag of realism is an interesting one, becuase it means different things to different people. Like sports sims, A wargame is an abstraction. The perspective, scope, and detail all contribute to what we might call "realism." I like to think about how a game contributes to my understanding of the real world as the measure of its realism. While I enjoyed the "General" series of games (and agree that PG 1 is the best of series), I find them not realistic at all. The games are abstracted to the point of being near meaningless in terms of understanding anything about the events and times in which they take place. Others will have different standards. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

04-07-2003, 12:28 PM	#14
RoastDuck Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000	Plenty of options there, thanks one and all.

04-07-2003, 01:16 PM	#15
33sherman Mascot Join Date: Nov 2002	The Talonsoft 'Europe In Flames,' (East Front, West Front) series is a bit old now but it's pretty great. It's pretty much the same as 'Operational Art Of War' but more WWII-focused. There are tons of great scenarios for it. The system takes a little getting used to but it's worth it. At first, I didn't like it as much as Panzer General but now I think it's much better. It takes a LONG time to get good at.

04-07-2003, 02:41 PM	#17
Castlerock High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, Ma	Anyone know if there is a link to a demo for the original Panzer General? Everyone seems to agree that it's the best of the series. I can't seem to find one.

04-07-2003, 05:27 PM	#18
DataKing Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chicago	If you're on a budget, I recommend Steel Panthers: World at War. It is a turn-based, (roughly) battalion-level game set in World War 2, and the best thing about it is that it's free. The download is approximately 400mb, and you can get it at www.matrixgames.com __________________ Current Games Diablo III (BattleTag: DataKing#1685) Allegiances: Chicago Bears - Detroit Red Wings - Kansas Jayhawks Awards: 2011 Golden Scribe - Other Sports Category (The Straight(away) and Narrow - A Forza Motorsport 3 Dynasty)

04-07-2003, 06:24 PM	#19
Joe Stallings .400 Software Studios Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA	A good "sleeper" that I've been enjoying recently is World War II Panzer Claws. Its a WWII RTS that's a cut above Sudden Strike, etc. in terms of realism, and the Arnhem scenario (A Bridge Too Far) is excellent. Here is the WarGamer review: http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/panzer_claws/ Also, I picked up Talonsoft's Divided Ground for 8 bucks at EB, and its very enjoyable (so is the similar Rising Sun, which can be had for about the same price). You can also find a few gems (for free) at Home of the Underdogs, including Hasbro's Axis and Allies game and Norm Koger's (developer of TOAW) Age of Rifles. JMS

04-07-2003, 06:29 PM	#20
Joe Stallings .400 Software Studios Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA	Also, you might check out People's General, which is by the same developers that did Panzer General. I think it was the last iteration of the original PG engine before the game went 3D. I actually enjoyed it more than PG, because it features modernized weaponry and hardware. And you can get free at HotU: http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=2508 JMS

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